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C-Euro posted:Definitely the most unique Star Wars film in terms of tone I don't mean this to be antagonistic or mean and I'm not trying be a dick, but how so do you mean this?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:01
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ImpAtom posted:I really genuinely don't know how anyone can say Rogue One's fan service was LESS calculated when it did things like "long lingering shot of blue milk" and "Hey, look, it's the cantina guys!" I don't think it goes more than five minutes without dropping some incredibly blunt reference or injoke from Keepers of the Whills to Darksaber. Because those are little moments where tfas entire structure was a cameo
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Dec 19, 2016 02:04
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Waffles Inc. posted:I don't mean this to be antagonistic or mean and I'm not trying be a dick, but how so do you mean this? The OT/TFA was a space opera, the PT was a space soap opera and this one was a war movie. "Space Opera" is also a "soap opera" I'm just making fun of the PT Soul Glo fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 02:05
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Cnut the Great posted:What's really happening is that these people are willingly going on what well may be a suicide mission, and by appealing to the Force they are granted enough of a reprieve to at least give their lives some meaning. They chose to take these risks. The Force didn't manipulate them into anything. A major theme of Star Wars is that you have a destiny, but you can choose whether or not to fulfill that destiny or not. The choice is on you. Because there are two sides to the Force...you can't play chess without an opponent, after all. Both sides have their pieces on the board -- sometimes they're the same pieces -- and both sides are trying to maneuver and influence events to their advantage. But the key here is that the methods deployed by either side are not so different, because the game is ultimately the same. The reason that the game stands out in this film is that it's the starkest example we've had of light side pieces being used in the same calculatedly disposable way that dark side pieces like Nute Gunray, Darth Maul, General Grievous, and now Director Krennic have been treated; as pawns to be taken advantage of when the time is right, and ultimately sacrificed in the long run. Cnut the Great posted:Yes, and another reason it makes no sense to say "The Force only cares about the Skywalkers" is because the Skywalkers also pay a terrible price in the course of pursuing their destinies. Luke loses his family. Leia loses her family and her entire world. Anakin loses his life. Now, the destruction of Alderaan is undeniably depicted as a tragedy and a blight on the "rightness" of the Force. It's the sort of thing that the Force is clearly trying to prevent in the long-term, especially if we believe Yoda's explanations that the Force is intrinsically tied to life itself. That being said, well...Leia's alive, ain't she? And the destruction of her home and people doesn't slow her down one bit...if anything it just strengthened her resolve and the tenacity of the Rebels. That's the scary thing about the Force, both light side and dark; that they both use tragedy as tools to sharpen their instruments. Anakin had more than fulfilled his role already, by the time he died; he'd passed on his bloodline, he'd destroyed the Emperor. What use could the Force have left for him? And that's even going with the interpretation that Anakin hadn't long since betrayed the true will of the Force and that it was just eagerly anticipating the moment when it'd finally be able to rid this galaxy of its own disappointing experiment in lieu of the new hotness that was Luke. (Once again, we see parallels between how the light and dark sides of the Force operate)
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Dec 19, 2016 02:10
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ShineDog posted:Because those are little moments where tfas entire structure was a cameo Rogue One's entire structure is "here is explaining a minor throwaway thing from ANH, including literal CGI recreations of a dead actor from ANH, the Death Star, Darth Vader, locations from ANH, ect." Like if your argument is "Well, this one is different because it's canonically justified that they're reusing all this stuff" then that's kind of eye-rolling because it's no less 'canonically justified' in TFA.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:10
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Soul Glo posted:The OT/TFA was a space opera, the PT was a space soap opera and this one was a war movie. You're not that dude so w/e but how is this any more of a war movie than ESB or RotS?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:10
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What is a war movie?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:11
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Bongo Bill posted:What is a war movie? This, too
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Dec 19, 2016 02:14
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To me the earlier movies are about superpowered wizards and their closest allies fighting for the balance of the all-seeing force of life amidst the backdrop of a galactic civil war while R1 is about the actual soldiers on the ground getting chewed up by the war while the higher players (Vader, Leia) either benefit or are hurt by their actions. War movies are about soldiers and the state of whatever war is the subject. The PT is about Anakin Skywalker being the Chosen One of his religion and bringing balance to the Force. The OT is about Luke Skywalker and his moral dilemma of light and dark and his family's drama. e: Also with respect to tone, and why you asked why the tone was any different from the other SW movies, in Rogue One everyone dies. That's a hard change in tone from the previous movies where the main characters ended roughed up but still breathing, or in Vader's case, at least redeemed. Here they succeed, but everyone's dead as hell Soul Glo fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 02:18
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Soul Glo posted:To me the earlier movies are about superpowered wizards and their closest allies fighting for the balance of the all-seeing force of life amidst the backdrop of a galactic civil war while R1 is about the actual soldiers on the ground getting chewed up by the war while the higher players (Vader, Leia) either benefit or are hurt by their actions. ... but Rogue One is literally entirely about family drama? I mean the entire Death Star stuff is born entirely from a woman and her estranged father and her trying to come to terms with that legacy?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:21
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Soul Glo posted:To me the earlier movies are about superpowered wizards and their closest allies fighting for the balance of the all-seeing force of life amidst the backdrop of a galactic civil war while R1 is about the actual soldiers on the ground getting chewed up by the war while the higher players (Vader, Leia) either benefit or are hurt by their actions. RotS and ESB are explicitly about the state of their respective wars. Both feature extensive scenes about the wars and their consequences. Hell, RotJ does too.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:22
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ImpAtom posted:... but Rogue One is literally entirely about family drama? I mean the entire Death Star stuff is born entirely from a woman and her estranged father and her trying to come to terms with that legacy? Fine, sure, I'll grant you that. This movie just has the feel of a war flick to me. It's not about superheroes; the closest we come is Chirrut. It feels much more about "real" people grabbing guns and going to war than any of the other movies.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:24
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ImpAtom posted:Rogue One's entire structure is "here is explaining a minor throwaway thing from ANH, including literal CGI recreations of a dead actor from ANH, the Death Star, Darth Vader, locations from ANH, ect." Uh. Rogue one expands on a minor detail. But the structure, the narrative beats, and particularly the desperate mood and tone really don't mirror another film in the series. TFA is ANH again. The entire structure comes across. Seeing some old characters crop up for a moment is a far sight from watching a movie go through the same motions again. Having the death star as a plot device is not the same as another trench run. The cameos in this film are throwaway and minor. People are only bothered by takin because he looks like poo poo. The concept of tarkin being here is fine e
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Dec 19, 2016 02:25
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ImpAtom posted:... but Rogue One is literally entirely about family drama? I mean the entire Death Star stuff is born entirely from a woman and her estranged father and her trying to come to terms with that legacy? It would have been neat for Jyn to have to grapple with that legacy publicly the way Luke and Leia eventually have to: her father was instrumental to the Death Star project, and the only evidence that he was working against the Empire the whole time is her word.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:26
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Why did Jyn and Cassian even choos to get involved in the shootout between the stormtroopers and insurgents when they were in space Mecca? As far as anybody knew they were just bystanders, they could have just run away. Instead they just started blasting away at Stormtroopers who had no reason to suspect them of anything.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:27
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Soul Glo posted:e: Also with respect to tone, and why you asked why the tone was any different from the other SW movies, in Rogue One everyone dies. That's a hard change in tone from the previous movies where the main characters ended roughed up but still breathing, or in Vader's case, at least redeemed. Here they succeed, but everyone's dead as hell Quick reminder that the last third of RotS features not only the genociding of a religion shown through incredibly sinister vignettes of betrayal and execution but also Padme being murdered and Obi-Wan having to murder his mentee and friend. No one wins and an empire falls while another rises Hell, it begins with a beheading Meanwhile in R1 a few characters no one knows the names of die on a beach in slow motion? And that's a hard change in tone?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:27
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Looper posted:Did anyone else get the vibe that the two former monks were a couple Yes. If it had been a male/female pairing there would've been no doubt. Shame that R1 wasn't more overt with it, but they left it ambiguous enough for folks to interpret it as they will. The "You almost shot me!" exchange, plus "I don’t need luck, I have you", etc and the ending seem to point pretty strongly towards them being more than just really good bros. Tumblr is certainly off to the races with the shipping already, so we'll see if that provokes Disney to make a statement one way or the other. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 02:30
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Looper posted:Did anyone else get the vibe that the two former monks were a couple I totally read it that way, right at the end it seemed so clear. e: Also, the people who think that Erso's father planting the hidden weakness in the Death Star is dumb or somehow 'cheapens' the original films are loving nuts. It makes more sense to me that one of the primary engineers of the project would secretly build and hide a critical vulnerability than the original supposition; that somehow this "press button: explode station" flaw was due to pure incompetence. When that moment occurred in the film I thought it was brilliant. How are u fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 02:31
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ShineDog posted:TFA is ANH again It really is not except in the largest sense, no. It intentionally mirrors it but that mirroring also involves significant changes and it plays that up. There are a number of changes to pacing and plotting. It absolutely plays with the idea of the original trilogy but takes it in different directions. It's perfectly fine to argue that it goes back to the same well instead of expanding the universe and that's a fair criticism. It isn't one that Rogue One changes though. We're still tied to the drat Death Star and Darth Vader and all the same OT stuff, just even more literally.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:34
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Looper posted:Did anyone else get the vibe that the two former monks were a couple I kind of read it that way, but I think it's intentionally ambiguous, and since they're not two guys who actually existed there is no "correct" answer.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:34
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Waffles Inc. posted:Quick reminder that the last third of RotS features not only the genociding of a religion shown through incredibly sinister vignettes of betrayal and execution but also Padme being murdered and Obi-Wan having to murder his mentee and friend. No one wins and an empire falls while another rises Yes? That's all over the over the top melodrama. It's over the top evil, compared to the rogue one cast just getting pretty unceremoniously despatched in comparison. (Also jesus Christ that youngling slaughter poo poo is loving goofy and I've never met a person who believed that chain of events and decisions made a lick of sense until I came here.) Re two posts above. Rogue one is absolutely and explicitly zooming in on the pre ANH window, sure. It exists as an exercise to show the empire and the rebellion throw down,no doubt. It's tied to the ot without question. At the same time though it's a different beast entirely. The trilogy movies are adventure movies with a war backdrop. This is just a war movie. It didn't feel the same or flow the same. ShineDog fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 02:35
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ShineDog posted:Because those are little moments where tfas entire structure was a cameo Exactly.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:35
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I liked TFA better than R1 but I really liked both. The slavish devotion to Vader's ANH costume was . . . unfortunate but otherwise it was really fun. The space battle and space pacific theater were pretty cool, the alien designs were good. It was fun and shockingly dark. I wished the characters were more developed. I didn't really care about any of them beyond the Imperial Director. Re: monks, I figured monks are celibate. Even if heavy weapons guy could develop romantic relationships, the other dude seemed pretty committed to still being a monk so I figured it was a shared bond of brotherhood from their time together as monks. But couple totally works if you assume monks are celibate.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:35
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Waffles Inc. posted:Quick reminder that the last third of RotS features not only the genociding of a religion shown through incredibly sinister vignettes of betrayal and execution but also Padme being murdered and Obi-Wan having to murder his mentee and friend. No one wins and an empire falls while another rises I feel like I'm poorly arguing it, but I still feel as though Rogue One has a tone very dissimilar to any of the previous movies. It's hard to parse without yelling "  GRITTY "Also p messed up to lay the murder of Padme on her children, imo* *dying because of childbirth would have been better than dying of a broken heart, actually
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Dec 19, 2016 02:36
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The.characters in TFA are also well drawn and entertaining with clearly defined arcs that lead to logical and satisfying payoffs that play on their strengths and what they've learned.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:36
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I liked the rear end in a top hat robot
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Dec 19, 2016 02:37
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ShineDog posted:Yes? That's all over the over the top melodrama. It's over the top evil, compared to the rogue one cast just getting pretty unceremoniously despatched in comparison. Anyone who doesn't have a cause they'd slaughter children for basically isn't even alive.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:37
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ShineDog posted:Yes? That's all over the over the top melodrama. It's over the top evil, compared to the rogue one cast just getting pretty unceremoniously despatched in comparison. That's funny because I never met anyone who thought it was goofy until I came here But yes, it's melodrama. So is Rogue One. Slow motion Asian guy dying or holding each other on the beach are melodrama as gently caress. My whole point is that this movie is fooling people into thinking it's "serious" and "gritty" when it's actually not
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Dec 19, 2016 02:39
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Cnut the Great posted:It doesn't even make any sense. Why did the second Death Star chain react in the exact same way? Are we supposed to assume there was some sympathetic chief engineer on that one too who sabotaged it in the exact same way without the Empire noticing? The first Death Star exploded because a small detonation against an exhaust output on one of the reactors chain reacted due to Galen's design flaw. The second exploded becuase two ships flew into the core and loving unloaded on it with their main guns until the entire internal structure collapsed. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 02:40
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Magic Hate Ball posted:The.characters in TFA are also well drawn and entertaining with clearly defined arcs that lead to logical and satisfying payoffs that play on their strengths and what they've learned. The part where Rey decides to be the hero of a Star Wars movie rather than get pushed on a cliff really gets me every time.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:42
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Vintersorg posted:JEJ is 85 so I don't blame him for not sounding as good as he used too. Holy Crap is that what Rebels looks like? That's terrible.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:45
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Entropic posted:Holy Crap is that what Rebels looks like? That's terrible. People say it gets easier to watch the more you watch of it but, yeah, I just frigging hate that art style.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:47
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Rebels is lame a vast majority of the time, and don't let anybody tell you different. Unlike the Clone Wars, the highs in Rebels are not worth the lows.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:49
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Magic Hate Ball posted:The.characters in TFA are also well drawn and entertaining with clearly defined arcs that lead to logical and satisfying payoffs that play on their strengths and what they've learned. I come across like I hate tfa and I don't. Tfa works because of what you said. It's full of baffling logic gaps and weird decisions but those charming characters see you through it. At the same time it's character led in a way rogue one doesn't even seek to be. And yes rogue one is grim and gritty <by star was standards> Whatever the hell ROTS was shooting for it ended up, if you are very generous, as a kind of larger than life classical tragedy. A supervillain murdering kids is very different in tone from a shellshocked man hiding in a plane getting unceremoniously grenaded
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Dec 19, 2016 02:50
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The way I see it, TFA isn't a bad movie and I did enjoy it, but it felt like they were checking off boxes and just trying to cram in absolutely everything they needed to to kick off a buttload of new Star Wars movies. Which is kind of to be expected, but it showed and the movie felt pretty bloated and designed by committee in the end to me. A lot of the movie felt like "ohh we gotta get this in there too" It wasn't without it's good qualities though, and overall it was a solid watch and was probably as good as a continuation of the main story is going to be, as unnecessary as it felt. I didn't think Rogue One was perfect, but to me it benefited from not being a mainline movie in the series. Much less to live up to in the long run. I found the premise interesting and honestly felt more engaged in the story than I did in TFA. It's true the characters didn't get a whole lot of development, but I felt the story was more about the mission than the characters so I didn't find it to be a huge flaw. The aesthetics of Star Wars are a pretty big deal to me and I think Rogue one mostly nailed it. It really looked and felt like what I wanted to see from a Star Wars movie. It was a great movie to look at. I liked that they didn't wuss out on the ending and give a little wink or sequel hook. The darker tone was also cool to me although I can see why some people find it off putting. My parents really disliked it. Overall I'd say Rogue One was my favorite SW related thing since the original trilogy.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:52
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That clone wars series was pretty bad too but at least it had interesting stylized visuals that were fun to look at. Rebels looks like a video game cutscene from 15 years ago.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:52
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ShineDog posted:a shellshocked man hiding in a plane getting unceremoniously grenaded I figured they'd all bite it but I was really hoping Buddy would end up a survivor somehow. 
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Dec 19, 2016 02:54
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Dec 19, 2016 02:58
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I'm so happy lots of other grown men like this movie. What's the opinion of pre-teens the actual market for it?
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Dec 19, 2016 03:01
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the moment you should realize R1 is disingenuous about its tone is when they treat the street fight as a very serious affair where the storm troopers are a threat to having the quippy robot catch a grenade and make a joke and murder 6 storm troopers So is war serious or not, rogue one?
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Dec 19, 2016 03:01
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