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christmas boots posted:Sounds like something a liberal would say I can't remember, which one is evil, liberals or leftists?
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Nov 24, 2020 06:45
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John Steinbeck was a Soviet Union fan boy who wrote mostly just poverty porn and tankie fan fic to justify everything Stalin et al. did.
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Nov 24, 2020 13:00
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Astrofig posted:I can't remember, which one is evil, liberals or leftists? Wikipedia posted:Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support free markets, free trade, limited government, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), capitalism, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion. Wikipedia posted:Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy. Left-wing politics typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.
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Nov 24, 2020 13:14
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Liberal has just lost all meaning. If I think liberal, I think of the people who created the UK welfare state based on freedom *from* poverty, disease etc not freedom *to* do whatever you want and pay no tax. IMO it is bad that the word has become corrupted because it is a way for stealth-tankies to go 'freedom of the press? y'aint a dirty neocon liberal are you?'
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Nov 24, 2020 13:43
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Byzantine posted:Trotsky was the original NoJoe I chuckled
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Nov 24, 2020 14:12
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Astrofig posted:I can't remember, which one is evil, liberals or leftists? Porque no los dos
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Nov 24, 2020 14:56
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Strategic Tea posted:Liberal has just lost all meaning. If I think liberal, I think of the people who created the UK welfare state based on freedom *from* poverty, disease etc not freedom *to* do whatever you want and pay no tax. The people that did that were not liberals. Like Nye Bevan is the man usually credited with starting the NHS and he was very much a socialist. It was the Labour party (who were more social democrats but certainly not liberals) that started those things.
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Nov 24, 2020 15:14
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The people who are the loudest online about supporting socialism are under the impression that it means "I'll be taken care of" as opposed to "the workers own the company" because they're mostly people who can't work or leave the house. What means will they be seizing? They can't work. That said we should support socialist policy to help take care of these poor, broken people, so I can hate them less.
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Nov 24, 2020 15:40
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Aramek posted:The people who are the loudest online about supporting socialism are under the impression that it means "I'll be taken care of" as opposed to "the workers own the company" because they're mostly people who can't work or leave the house. I...don’t think this is true
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Nov 24, 2020 15:44
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Aramek posted:The people who are the loudest online about supporting socialism are under the impression that it means "I'll be taken care of" as opposed to "the workers own the company" because they're mostly people who can't work or leave the house. Haha what is this dumb poo poo
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Nov 24, 2020 16:07
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Aramek posted:The people who are the loudest online about supporting socialism are under the impression that it means "I'll be taken care of" as opposed to "the workers own the company" because they're mostly people who can't work or leave the house. Wikipedia posted:Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management of enterprises. Social ownership can be public, collective, cooperative, or of equity. Wikipedia posted:Social ownership is a form of ownership for the means of production in socialist economic systems. These systems may encompass state ownership, employee ownership, cooperative ownership, citizen ownership of equity, common ownership, or collective ownership. The workers owning the company would fall under the extremely broad umbrella of "socialism" but it's not necessary by definition.
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Nov 24, 2020 16:22
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it's the embarrassing clueless aging guy page
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Nov 24, 2020 16:24
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Byzantine posted:Trotsky was the original NoJoe lol took me a minute
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Nov 24, 2020 17:41
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Josef bugman posted:The people that did that were not liberals. Like Nye Bevan is the man usually credited with starting the NHS and he was very much a socialist. It was the Labour party (who were more social democrats but certainly not liberals) that started those things. The very first moves were by the old Liberal party, with Labour being founded like one election later IIRC - I am thinking really fundamental stuff like the first stat. sick pay and the use of the post office to distribute pension cheques. But yeah it's really semantic!
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Nov 24, 2020 23:04
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Strategic Tea posted:The very first moves were by the old Liberal party, with Labour being founded like one election later IIRC - I am thinking really fundamental stuff like the first stat. sick pay and the use of the post office to distribute pension cheques. It’s not really. Liberals and leftists disagree on fundamental things like “is capitalism good” and “is it free speech for nazis to march unmolested in jewish neighbourhoods” and “who is worse fascists or communists” (and believe me you don’t want to know the answer liberals historically choose) Believing it’s a semantic difference is due to growing up in a society that’s been propagandized by liberal capitalism for a century or more.
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Nov 25, 2020 00:15
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I think rather we're referring to totally different people when using the word (don't worry, I'm the one with the hideously out of date definition though!)
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Nov 25, 2020 00:36
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The big liberal fight now is "capital should have free movement across nations, labor should not" which allows an entire industry built around labor arbitrage. So if anyone wondered why the Obama and Clinton administrations were also awful to immigrants, that's why.
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Nov 25, 2020 02:21
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Strategic Tea posted:The very first moves were by the old Liberal party, with Labour being founded like one election later IIRC - I am thinking really fundamental stuff like the first stat. sick pay and the use of the post office to distribute pension cheques. The People's Budget of 1909 was by a Liberal government, but it was conceived and pushed through the party and parliament by David Lloyd-George and the other 'radical liberals' who were mostly motivated by three things (the mix depending on the individual politician) - a genuine desire to eradicate poverty and squalor, a concern that the levels of poverty and squalor in Britain were depriving it of an effective workforce, consumer base and military, and a hatred of the idle rich who merely inherited and managed their wealth rather than creating it through enterprise. Hence the People's Budget essentially being 'tax the aristocracy's property and inheritances to fund statutory sick pay and pensions'. The post-war welfare state was mostly based on the Beveridge Report, and William Beveridge was also a radical liberal (and like a lot of progressives of his era, a member of the Eugenics Society  ) who cast the report as eliminating "The five giants Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness". But it was implemented, aggressively, by Attlee's Labour government which was definitely some sort of socialist strain and went well beyond the Beveridge Report (in practice, if not in spirit) in terms of economic policy. So you're right that there was a sort of liberal who operated on the basis of 'Freedom From' rather than 'Freedom To' but they don't meaningfully exist in politics anywhere in the Anglosphere (or anywhere else?) these days. It shows how far our collective political landscape has been dragged rightwards that even Lloyd George's 1909 budget, let alone the Beveridge's report, would be denounced by the very people who claim to be their political descendants. There are no actual liberal politicians these days defending (or calling to expand) universal social service provision or denouncing billionaires and calling for three-quarters of their stuff to be taken away to fund healthcare.
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Nov 25, 2020 11:53
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Manager Hoyden posted:The big liberal fight now is "capital should have free movement across nations, labor should not" which allows an entire industry built around labor arbitrage.
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Nov 25, 2020 14:55
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Its hosed up that one of the baby Mothras from Mothra vs Godzilla just dies of natural causes offscreen between movies.
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Nov 25, 2020 21:23
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i dont really get how people do secret santa stuff online. i have a pretty strong "no personal information" rule for myself and the idea of giving a random stranger online my address, even if it's for something innocuous, nevermind the hassle of buying poo poo for a stranger and sending it, isnt something id ever consider doing even if you might get something cool ive always thought secret santa had too much potential for embarrassment anyway, ive always hated doing it in school or at work because you might get someone you just dont know very well or dont like and then its just a headache
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Nov 26, 2020 18:51
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Have it sent to a PO Box
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Nov 26, 2020 19:18
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I don't know what "having a personality" really means and I don't know if it's like the whole "a e s t h e t i c" thing but just taken up a notch.
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Nov 26, 2020 20:52
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It means you're interesting to talk to and pleasant to be around. That's ultimately what a good personality is.
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Nov 26, 2020 21:51
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cocaine sucks. everyone ive ever known who does cocaine has been a lovely person. it seems to just turn you into a huge cock in no time at all and the drug should just be eradicated along with meth while everyone should be encouraged to drink beer and smoke weed
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Nov 27, 2020 20:38
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Solice Kirsk posted:It means you're interesting to talk to and pleasant to be around. That's ultimately what a good personality is. But that's the thing, that could mean nigh on anything because those things change from person to person.
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Nov 27, 2020 21:17
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Josef bugman posted:But that's the thing, that could mean nigh on anything because those things change from person to person. It means having thoughts and feelings that aren't entirely parroting the media you consume or the basics of your job. Given that Ready Player One and its sequel have been under discussion around the forums lately, there's a good example of the alternative.
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Nov 27, 2020 23:10
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Josef bugman posted:But that's the thing, that could mean nigh on anything because those things change from person to person. Yup, and that's why some people like people you don't.
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Nov 27, 2020 23:34
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The fact that Rudy Guiliani, Mike Bloomberg, and Andrew Cuomo have all been mayors or governors of New York proves that New Yorkers shouldn't be allowed to vote.
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Nov 27, 2020 23:58
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Gripweed posted:The fact that Rudy Guiliani, Mike Bloomberg, and Andrew Cuomo have all been mayors or governors of New York proves that New Yorkers shouldn't be allowed to vote. *eyes us presidents*
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Nov 28, 2020 00:43
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Letting New Yorkers choose for themselves is the cruelest thing you can do to them. Those poor ignorant bastards were left to their own devices and started putting ketchup on hot dogs for god's sake. What New York needs now is the soothing guiding hand of the Vermont.
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Nov 28, 2020 00:53
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:*eyes us presidents* We've had some bad ones. But it's hard to find three melting gremlins who openly, proudly despise their constituents as much as Guiliani, Cuomo, and Bloomberg
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Nov 28, 2020 01:01
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As an american, marmite is the best spread for basic toast and I really want to try vegemite.
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Nov 28, 2020 01:16
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I like present-day Family Guy.Shibawanko posted:cocaine sucks. everyone ive ever known who does cocaine has been a lovely person. it seems to just turn you into a huge cock in no time at all and the drug should just be eradicated along with meth while everyone should be encouraged to drink beer and smoke weed I only met one person who I was 100% sure was on coke when I met him, and he was extremely unpleasant & had weird body odor. It put me off of coke forever.
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Nov 28, 2020 01:39
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I was at a May Day party once and this tiny young woman came in and did two lines of coke off the living room table and then wrestled the owner of the apartment, nearly wrecking the whole room. Turns out she wasn't even invited, just came in with some other people.
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Nov 28, 2020 01:47
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3D Megadoodoo posted:I was at a May Day party once and this tiny young woman came in and did two lines of coke off the living room table and then wrestled the owner of the apartment, nearly wrecking the whole room. absolute legend
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Nov 28, 2020 01:49
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People in dying small towns should just move. That's what happened to the residents of all the ghost towns. The economic machinery either failed or became unnecessary and people moved on. "But it would be a shame if small town America" No. Small town America is over. Do what everybody else in the world does and move on. Nobody's obligated to subsidize your quaint way of life.
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Nov 28, 2020 01:57
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Animal-Mother posted:People in dying small towns should just move. That's what happened to the residents of all the ghost towns. The economic machinery either failed or became unnecessary and people moved on. "But it would be a shame if small town America" No. Small town America is over. Do what everybody else in the world does and move on. Nobody's obligated to subsidize your quaint way of life. Give them a UBI and social support then
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Nov 28, 2020 01:59
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Animal-Mother posted:People in dying small towns should just move. That's what happened to the residents of all the ghost towns. The economic machinery either failed or became unnecessary and people moved on. "But it would be a shame if small town America" No. Small town America is over. Do what everybody else in the world does and move on. Nobody's obligated to subsidize your quaint way of life. Same but every country
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Nov 28, 2020 01:59
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:As an american, marmite is the best spread for basic toast and I really want to try vegemite. I'm sorry, no. We were looking for "butter." "Butter" was the correct answer. Please pick up your participation gift basket from Tammy on your way out.
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Nov 28, 2020 02:09
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