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Steve Yun posted:
I also thought this morning that Director Krennic might represent Gareth Edwards' attempt to make a movie in the Disney/Lucasfilm empire.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:07
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Wank posted:I also thought this morning that Director Krennic might represent Gareth Edwards' attempt to make a movie in the Disney/Lucasfilm empire. Galen is the screenwriter who put a giant gently caress you to Gareth Edwards and Disney, hidden inside the giant production they sank immeasurable resources into (edit: seriously tho, that's what Ratatouille was; Pixar's giant middle finger to Disney) Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 23:10
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So this movie isn't about the character, it's about the story. And we already know the story in the broad strokes because it's literally told to us in text in another movie, so it's really about he minutia of the story. So it's apparently a movie that's about filling in minute details in a story that we already know full of characters we don't and aren't supposed to care about. Cool, sounds exactly like someone filmed a Wookiepedia article. I guess it was a well filmed wookiepedia article at least.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:23
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General Dog posted:I think that the way the ending dovetails with the original Star Wars is fun because it's kind of a nod to Lucas's original concept of it being an serial episode that you're catching in the middle of the series. This is what happened last week, it's the true episode 3. Exactly. ANH needed some more direct and immediate context given the stakes of the Death Star, all the different political and rebel figures all over the place, and coming 20 years after III because 20 years later is a long time to just do a cold jump-in like we had previously. I always figured we'd get to see the entire Galactic Civil War (We did get the whole Clone Wars but that's drat near another universe) one day and see all the side characters and setting fleshed out. R1 looks almost precisely like what I figured that story expansion would look and feel like as a child. Seeing the rebel high command making GBS threads their pants in the war room at Yavin 4 at the news that the Empire is rolling around with goddamned Planet Killer Lasers (in a contrast to Tarkin's gloating about their victory in 'their' war room in ANH because its poetry and rhymes) is low-key something I wanted to see forever. Characterization was weak, but that's fine. The main character is the war scenes and The Mission. Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 23:23
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well why not posted:People hate when things don't match up with the impossible expectations they've built up over a slavish 20 year dedication to a franchise. It's weird as heck when an Overwatch avatar-haver is hating something for having weak characters.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:25
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Finally got a chance to see Rogue One. Thought it was real good, but I'm looking forward to hearing from you guys about how it was "too safe" to kill off all the heroes at the end. Pretty much a conventional war movie as far as the plot goes. I do not think the kids are going to like it. I felt pretty bad for the kids sitting behind me, who all took K2's death pretty hard but hadn't seen enough war movies to know that the whole squad was going to die.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:26
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Milky Moor posted:It's weird as heck when an Overwatch avatar-haver is hating something for having weak characters. It is a game about shooting things with a 100% optional dumb plot why is that relevant.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:28
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Oh I'm sure this thread has already had this fight, but I thought CGI Tarkin was impressive but CGI Leia was not. The Tarkin was so good I started to suspect Mon Mothma.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:28
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Also, it's weird that they didn't do the scroll at the beginning, and then the first act was choppy as all gently caress in ways that a scroll probably could have smoothed out. I guess it would have been hard to incorporate the scroll and the critical background scene Mads. The movie basically had to open with that scene, so there's nowhere to put the scroll?
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Dec 19, 2016 23:32
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I like the characterization we get because it fits with the grittier/gonzo theme of the movie in general; real people don't really depict the entirety of their lives and motivations in less than 2 hours. I liked that the end departure involved some guys we never saw before because they had a lot of character in their designs and expressions which suggest that they had their own little Cass adventures. I still liked Jyn for the reasons I gave before (her average-ness being a big part of her character), K2 and Chirrut were heavily developed and very fun. Whitaker as Saw was great and what he lacked in characterization [in this film] he made up for in visuals, Baze was cool and it was neat how he has an unspoken arc (when we first see him Chirrut tells us he used to be the most faithful of the monks, throughout the film he's very gung-ho and more interested in comfort than doing anything, and by the end he's back into action and repeating Chirrut's mantra), Cass was alright (I do agree that he could have used one more shady act to cement him as the scummy wetworks guy for the Rebels), and Krennic was a great foil. The only character I didn't really care for was Tarkin; I always saw him as the competent and "nice-ish" naval commander of the Empire, not like a teddy bear but he's formal, offers surrenders, and bonds with Vader. Here he acts very sleazy in his dealings with Krennic. (for whoever's doing dumb little "X group liked Y", I liked TFA and its characters as well)
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Dec 19, 2016 23:33
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PostNouveau posted:Also, it's weird that they didn't do the scroll at the beginning, and then the first act was choppy as all gently caress in ways that a scroll probably could have smoothed out. I guess it would have been hard to incorporate the scroll and the critical background scene Mads. The movie basically had to open with that scene, so there's nowhere to put the scroll? I was okay with the lack of scroll though it did throw me off at first. I think just because *everything* Star Wars does the scroll except for Rogue One so it was just sort of a "wait, something's off" moment.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:34
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PostNouveau posted:Oh I'm sure this thread has already had this fight, but I thought CGI Tarkin was impressive but CGI Leia was not. The Tarkin was so good I started to suspect Mon Mothma. I don't mean to come across as a oval office but how is this possible. He just looks like a cartoon character. Leia looked fine because she was so brief and didn't really move though. Wait... Why wasn't Mothra CGI? Weird.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:34
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Steve2911 posted:I don't mean to come across as a oval office but how is this possible. He just looks like a cartoon character. Mon Mothma was played by Genevieve O'Reilly who also played her in RotS.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:36
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Tarkin looked like a Call of Duty cinematic and the score when the title came up was honestly one of the worst I've ever heard. There's a really great movie somewhere on the cutting room floor I bet. Still so much better than the Force Awakens.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:44
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Steve2911 posted:I don't mean to come across as a oval office but how is this possible. He just looks like a cartoon character. It's real good. It's a CGI human that doesn't take you out of the movie. It must have taken them loving forever to do.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:52
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ImpAtom posted:Mon Mothma was played by Genevieve O'Reilly who also played her in RotS. Also in random references, a surprising ANH one. While Giacchino's score was pretty forgettable, there was a nice appearance of the Imperial motif when Vader first appears. Not the Imperial March, mind you, but the theme used in ANH and then nowhere again in the movies. It was a brief thing that a think only a handful of people would even notice, but neat to hear.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:54
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Imperial March not being in ANH is one of my favourite bits of Star Wars music trivia. That and Han Solo not having his own theme.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:55
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Dishwasher posted:The main character is the war scenes and The Mission. What does this even mean? What other movies are like this? No good war movie I've ever seen had crappy characters.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:59
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Neurolimal posted:The only character I didn't really care for was Tarkin; I always saw him as the competent and "nice-ish" naval commander of the Empire, not like a teddy bear but he's formal, offers surrenders, and bonds with Vader. Here he acts very sleazy in his dealings with Krennic.
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Dec 20, 2016 00:15
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Magic Hate Ball posted:What does this even mean? What other movies are like this? No good war movie I've ever seen had crappy characters. It means the characters are important, but not So Important that the lack of them affects the movie. The focus was on getting the plans, being ANH: Part 1, and introducing the imperials and rebels. The characters serve to flesh out the situation, as oppose to the situation and setting serving to expand the characters. We've seen lots of X-Wing pilots die fiery and screaming deaths at this point. I think the main idea of the Rebellion is pretty much "We're gonna need a lot of body bags because very few of these guys are going home". A suicide mission with likable, but shallow doomed characters is appropriate. That may not float everyone's boat, but lets not act like the other ones are Shakespeare either. "What other movies are like this?" Well other movies aren't Star Wars so I'm giving it a pass. Catch me again with a characterless SW movie without so much wonderful fighter and capital ship destruction to compensate and I'll be complaining just as hard as you are next time. Maybe. Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 00:17
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Dishwasher posted:Catch me again with a characterless SW movie without so much wonderful fighter and capital ship destruction to compensate and I'll be complaining just as hard as you are next time. Maybe. This may be a big reason for the gap in opinions. (And I don't mean this as an attack on you or anything, just an example.) I don't get a lot of out of action for action's sake. It triggers something in my brain that makes me go "Well, I can watch this on Youtube in a few months and save a few bucks." The action in Rogue One is excellent but I found it kind of fundamentally hollow since it involved faceless characters aside from Admiral Knockbar and General Pornstach. It kind of felt like a video game at points. (Almost literally when the Y-Wings started ion bombing the Star Destroyer which I feel like is a *literal* reference to the video games, not merely a metaphorical one.) " And there's nothing wrong if that is what you wanted and what you got from the film, it's just not my bag at all. I feel that way about most war films where the ones I think are strongest and most interesting aren't the ones with the best combat but the ones with the best people. I'm likewise someone who finds the somewhat awkward but emotionally invested lightsaber duels in the OT way more engaging than the 15 minute lava duel from RotS.
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Dec 20, 2016 00:41
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ImpAtom posted:It kind of felt like a video game at points. I got this from "grabbing the datadisk" and "aligning the dish" and "put plug in hole to reach alliance" such very boring actions to look at, nobody was putting any skills to work either. It was like a shooter game's objectives or something. Krennic's confrontation with Jyn is also pretty lame. ImpAtom posted:I'm likewise someone who finds the somewhat awkward but emotionally invested lightsaber duels in the OT way more engaging than the 15 minute lava duel from RotS. Exactly, that lava duel is the film falling for the fans' trap and forgetting about underlying drama, the bit where they just stand around waving their sabers around without hitting each other and then deciding to switch it up and point hands at each other is especially hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40HhaIJ0QVw&t=177s Soulless fight scene. The fight with vader in TESB and especially ROTJ is much better because there are stakes and there is actual good drama underlying the fight. Just go watch it again lol:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDs2UGCP2Fk Nielsen fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 00:50
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PostNouveau posted:It's real good. It's a CGI human that doesn't take you out of the movie. It must have taken them loving forever to do. I hope a behind the scenes is released for this because a lot of work went into it. It's interesting how polarizing it is.
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Dec 20, 2016 01:07
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Nielsen posted:FPS objectives That got a bit ridiculous if only because it was an attempt to give everyone a Big drat Heroes moment. But these guys aren't Luke, so for the layman, plugging in that switch, pushing that lever, or grabbing that usb while under heavy durress and with minimal plot armor is a Big Deal. I heard this got a lot of the reshoot attention, so many of these characters people think are shallow didn't even get those moments in the initial shots. As for Action for Action sake, I don't tend to enjoy many action movies and also skip straight to Youtube. Rogue 1 is totally a guilty pleasure for me as a person who loved the military stuff in the franchise first and foremost. They could have done 2 whole hours of Scarif for all I cared. However, I can see how some people are walking away from this wondering what the hell they just watched. This whole thing was shamelessly toyetic and I'm sad because they probably can't do this again.
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Dec 20, 2016 01:08
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The only character who's a layman is Cassian, I think, though he's already involved and also murders people. And the film does a terrible job of elaborating on why they would want to get involved and give themselves up for the greater cause. All I got from the ending was "well we're stuck here might as well try", and even that's perfunctory and rotely sequential.
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Dec 20, 2016 01:20
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Darko posted:where you are ignoring the language of visually SHOWING something as opposed to inferring it. I just want to bring this up from a couple pages back, because I want to point out why Jyn grieving over her father's death on-screen doesn't carry any emotional impact or weight for me personally when compared to Luke's on-screen reaction when Beru and Owen died. We don't know Galen at all, and we don't really know Jyn. Their lack of character development is severely detrimental to the scene in question, which made me not really care about this scene that's supposed to be poignant. It's same reason I didn't care that Saw was so willing to accept his fate on Jedha; him tearing off his breathing apparatus in defiance of death meant nothing to me because he's a character I don't have a stake in. It's drama with no real depth. In contrast, there are a handful of character moments with Owen and Beru in A New Hope where we get to know them. We see their relationship with Luke during several scenes, and as such, I could empathize with Luke when he realizes they're in danger. Once he arrives back at the homestead and sees their charred corpses, I could feel the weight of his emotions bearing down on him through his body language. I couldn't do that with Jyn, despite actually seeing her physically grieve over her father in the rain. teagone fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 01:22
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I liked the opening shot where something, as was traditional, was panning past the camera, but it turned out that the camera was the thing that was moving, and the thing panning was planetary rings, with a spaceship casting a shadow on them.
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Dec 20, 2016 01:30
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Eh, I've no problems saying Rogue One is dark and gritty. I'll say it all day. To be sure, I think Episode III was also dark, and arguably more effectively dark in certain ways. (Not so much gritty, though.) But in addition to everything I'd already mentioned about Rogue One, at one point of the film two heroes outright argue over whether it's justifiable to assassinate hostages in wartime, with no definitive conclusion being offered one way or another; it'd be as if Anakin and Padme's debate about dictatorships didn't end with jokes and rolls in the hay, but with shouts and sullen recriminations and no clear answers. At one point an innocent man is mind-raped by a tentacle monster, and the shady bastard who ordered the act is ultimately portrayed as an ally to their cause. A child that Jyn risks her life to save presumably dies screaming twenty minutes later when her home and everyone in it is atomized in seconds. And like, even disregarding all that, it's just flat-out dense to try to make it sound like killing off the entire cast onscreen isn't an incredibly grim, brutal way to cap off any film. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 02:10
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Movie was boring as gently caress and the characters were poo poo. Especially the main chick, who changed personalities with every scene
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Dec 20, 2016 02:12
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Time Bandits is a darker film.
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Dec 20, 2016 02:13
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BrianWilly posted:But in addition to everything I'd already mentioned about Rogue One, at one point of the film two heroes outright argue over whether it's justifiable to assassinate hostages in wartime, with no definitive conclusion being offered one way or another; it'd be as if Anakin and Padme's debate about dictatorships didn't end with jokes and rolls in the hay, but with shouts and sullen recriminations and no clear answers. At one point an innocent man is mind-raped by a tentacle monster, and the shady bastard who ordered the act is ultimately portrayed as an ally to their cause. A child that Jyn risks her life to save presumably dies screaming twenty minutes later when her home and everyone in it is atomized in seconds. None of this is actually dark because the movie just skates by all of it without lingering on any of it in any meaningful way. The deaths are all proud and heroic and, more importantly, happen to characters whose sole purpose is to move the plot from point A to B and then disappear in time for A New Hope to start, so it's not even especially sad when they die because they're doing it stoically and bravely and they weren't that interesting anyway. In abstract the material sounds like it could be heavy, but tonally it's just not there. A body count isn't enough to make a movie dark, otherwise Independence Day would be the most depressing movie ever. And all of the moral ambiguity is completely pointless and wasted. The "mind raped" pilot is literally fine like 10 minutes later. The extremist general dies without generating any genuinely interesting conflict because he's too lazy to get to the escaping ship. The question of whether or not assassination is a valid tool of resistance is answered when the male hero decides not to shoot the female heroes dad because he likes her and it would make her sad. No one is walking out of this movie weeping or confronting the darkness in their own soul. Mostly the reaction seems to be "Vader was sweet" and "I loved reference <thing referenced>."
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Dec 20, 2016 02:29
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Yeah, this is "hooray for heroism" with an undercurrent of "violence is not so good".
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Dec 20, 2016 02:34
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big money big clit posted:None of this is actually dark because the movie just skates by all of it without lingering on any of it in any meaningful way. The deaths are all proud and heroic and, more importantly, happen to characters whose sole purpose is to move the plot from point A to B and then disappear in time for A New Hope to start, so it's not even especially sad when they die because they're doing it stoically and bravely and they weren't that interesting anyway. In abstract the material sounds like it could be heavy, but tonally it's just not there. A body count isn't enough to make a movie dark, otherwise Independence Day would be the most depressing movie ever. Yes. The proud and heroic death of the pilot who just dies when a Stormtrooper kind of casually tosses a grenade inside his spaceship. The extremist general had two (fancy) peg legs and needed a walking stick to be able to amble about at a glacial pace and obviously needed some kind of life support system given that he was proto-Vader. But yes, he's just too lazy. Star Wars fans still don't like Star Wars.
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Dec 20, 2016 02:53
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Milky Moor posted:Yes. The proud and heroic death of the pilot who just dies when a Stormtrooper kind of casually tosses a grenade inside his spaceship. The movies just poo poo
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Dec 20, 2016 02:56
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mashed_penguin posted:I hope a behind the scenes is released for this because a lot of work went into it. I don't really have a good theater near me, so I didn't see it in, like, digital IMAX 3D or something. Maybe that makes a difference.
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Dec 20, 2016 02:58
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I saw it in regular 2D and he looked weirdly oily, like the skin of an overbaked ham.
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Dec 20, 2016 02:59
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Milky Moor posted:Yes. The proud and heroic death of the pilot who just dies when a Stormtrooper kind of casually tosses a grenade inside his spaceship. He dies having just completed the link that will allow them to transmit the data that is the very purpose of their mission. Basically every named character dies does something self sacrificing to save the mission. The only one that doesn't is the guy that dies shooting a bunch of guys who just killed his gay lover, which is heroic as hell. General Forrest Whittaker isn't like "I can't get to the ship in time" when she asks him to come, he just goes "nah, I'm cool." I'm not a Star Wars fan.
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Dec 20, 2016 02:59
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The Whittaker character felt super underrwriten, he's supposed to be this insane evil guy who's gotten super corrupt with war and stuff but he just acts kind of vaguely menacing and his tentacle monster barely does anything.
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Dec 20, 2016 03:01
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I saw it in regular 2D and he looked weirdly oily, like the skin of an overbaked ham. Yeah, same. It was really distracting. I think they did as good of a job as anyone could, but I don't think we are to the point yet where we can get away with computer animating the likenesses of actors. Also see: Tron legacy. Him and Leia looked like characters from a Naughty Dog game to me.
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Dec 20, 2016 03:02
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big money big clit posted:He dies having just completed the link that will allow them to transmit the data that is the very purpose of their mission. Nah they complete that link so he can patch his communications into the rebels and tell them to knock out the shield gate so they can receive the transmission from Jyn. Because he gets blown up right after that, so his ship wasn't integral to the transmitting data part. But I think the rebels were already trying to knock out the shield gate, so it was kinda pointless? They certainly bombed it a few times.
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Dec 20, 2016 03:05
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