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oh no not fast food
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Jan 17, 2021 20:28
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How many employees does the average fast food have working simultaneously? 10? 20? Assuming all of them made 7.50 before and will make 15.00 now that's 7.50 power employee an hour so 75 dollars for 10 and 150 for 20. At 5 dollars for 20 nuggets that means McDonald's needs to sell 300 chicken mcnuggets. Or 600.
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Jan 18, 2021 02:20
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Also if they could get away with charging sit down meal prices then they already would, that's how markets work. Also if all the people buying it are suddenly making more money then they could afford to spend more on fast food couldn't they.
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Jan 18, 2021 02:53
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If you own a McDonald's Franchise your margins are so thin that 75 an hour, or 600 a day, would mean disaster. As we all know, the average profit of a McDonald's is less than 18,000 a month.
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Jan 18, 2021 03:02
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This is all dumb though because Papa John gave the game away when he said outright healthcare would cost an extra 13 cents a pizza like we should be appalled that his employees could have healthcare for less than a loving quarter.
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Jan 18, 2021 03:03
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HootTheOwl posted:This is all dumb though because Papa John gave the game away when he said outright healthcare would cost an extra 13 cents a pizza like we should be appalled that his employees could have healthcare for less than a loving quarter. Made the classic error of thinking about it from a business perspective and doing the work of translating that into the coal face customer experience rather than leaving it as a scary-sounding cost of eighty million dollars or whatever
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Jan 18, 2021 04:11
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A friend of mine works at a local McDonald's that opened right next to a school in the middle of a residential area. From what I've heard, the only thing that has improved the local traffic conditions was covid, and even then only after mandatory restaurant closing hours.
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Jan 18, 2021 16:13
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I have a pretty straightforward question in light of the Capital riots and other recent examples of deep divisions that portend large scale violence and potentially civil war: When and under what conditions would you consider secession to be a reasonable course of action? The entire concept of a nation implies some underlying unifying culture that unites a people. When people whose cultural values and political priorities clash with each other to a large enough degree are forced to live under the same political structure, violence and social unrest are the inevitable result. I've always felt that the demonization of the concept of secession makes little sense. The fact that some US southern states seceded partially over the issue of slavery in the 19th century hardly invalidates the concept itself. It's the reasons given for secession that determine whether the act is worth supporting or not. I'm living in Portland at the moment. We've had several rounds of Proud Boys versus Antifa / Black Lives Matter street fights with many more surely to come. It's like these people are play-acting civil war. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where these two groups could peacefully coexist. Now, there are 74 million people who voted for Donald Trump in this last election. And a very high percentage of them believe the election was stolen from them and that Joe Biden is an illegitimate usurper. On the other side, liberals openly refer to Trump supporters as domestic terrorists, fascists and white supremacists. Journalists like Glenn Greenwald have written about the disturbing trend of the surveillance State and post-9/11 anti-terrorism programs being turned inward on the American people, or at least some of them. Calls for open censorship of Trump supporters by Big Tech companies will only further radicalize these factions and make events like the Capital riots more common. What exactly is so distasteful about allowing the MAGA people to go their separate way? Consider the Amish. How often do you think about that Amish during your day to day life? If you're like me, probably almost never. They practice a religion that I don't endorse and a lifestyle that I would want no part of. Yet I'm perfectly happy for them to carve out a portion of Ohio and a number of different states to live in a way they choose. I'm happy to trade with them and buy Amish-produced goods. In fact, I prefer it over purchasing goods from a large corporation. My relationship with the Amish is one that I am totally comfortable with, despite our vast cultural and political differences. Now, consider if the Amish were a political party whose goal was to take over the US government, the Supreme Court and all other political power centers and impose their political and religious views on the rest of society. Immediately, I'd consider them my mortal enemy and our relationship would transform from one of peaceful coexistence to one of violent confrontation. I don't think it's humane or practical to have a society where either half of the country has to be in fear of Trump-style fascism or white supremacy ruling over them, or progressivism, woke-ism and socialism ruling over them. The Trump phenomenon should have taught the Left to become anti-Statists. After all, if our democratic system can elect a president as unhinged and dangerous as Donald Trump, maybe the Federal Government has too much power and authority to begin with and we should curb it's authority any way we can, lest another dangerous demagogue rises to the top and wields State power against us? Unfortunately, most progressives instead want to wield State power to punish the degenerate Trump supporters, forgetting that the executive orders, Federal programs and concentrated power that accumulate under Joe Biden will be available to the next Trump-style Republican. FYI, I'm perfectly aware of the difference between liberals who support Biden and the actual Left who oppose him. My point still stands though because the Left, with few exceptions, would prefer someone like Bernie Sanders or someone farther left, who will expand State power in different ways, with a similar disregard for the fact that State power they expand will be used against them by the next Trump-style Republican. By stating the above, I'm not meaning to imply that secession is something to take on lightly. It is a dramatic course of action. However, I've always believed that smaller political units are preferable to larger political units because smaller political units generally better reflect the values and politics of their constituents and give people more options in terms of living in a society that fits their values. Also, smaller political units have less potential to commit atrocities simply because of their smaller budgets. If you do not consider secession a viable course of action, what exactly do you propose we do with Trump supporters and the fascist threat? 1 in 4 Americans voted for Donald Trump and likely many more are secretly sympathetic to him. That's an awful lot of people who's views are anathema to your own. At some point you can either choose secession or political decentralization of some form which could allow for peaceful coexistence. Or you can continue on a course of political escalation that could lead to civil war. It's an easy choice for me, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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Jan 19, 2021 03:51
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He hath returned to us. Hark! He is Risen!
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Jan 19, 2021 04:00
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Go away JRod, and take your lovely shtick with you
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Jan 19, 2021 04:02
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They don't want to "go their own way" they want to claim ownership of the entire US and ensure its domination over the rest of the world. The idea that they would accept autonomy and just sit there and not try to expand is farcical. Whether or not you like states, they like them and are thoroughly centered in using them to control others, you can't just refuse to participate in that because that's how states work, they rule whatever they can project force over.
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Jan 19, 2021 04:21
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Welcome back Jrod.polymathy posted:What exactly is so distasteful about allowing the MAGA people to go their separate way? This is incredibly disingenuous. They are not trying to go their own way, they are trying to overturn a legal and valid election because they're unhappy with the result. They're not opting out of the political system, they're imposing their own system on everyone else. If those 73 million people want to go bug off somewhere else and start their own state, I won't stop them, but they don't get to force 255 million other people to live under a fascist state just because. They are: polymathy posted:a political party whose goal was to take over the US government, the Supreme Court and all other political power centers and impose their political and religious views on the rest of society. Go away Jrod.
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Jan 19, 2021 04:27
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Hey Jrod, in the Antifa vs. Proudboy fight, who did you root for?
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Jan 19, 2021 04:43
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OwlFancier posted:They don't want to "go their own way" they want to claim ownership of the entire US and ensure its domination over the rest of the world. The idea that they would accept autonomy and just sit there and not try to expand is farcical. Whether or not you like states, they like them and are thoroughly centered in using them to control others, you can't just refuse to participate in that because that's how states work, they rule whatever they can project force over. As much as I dislike the Trump MAGA crowd, I'm not sure that's an accurate description of their motivations. No, they don't support secession. But many of them feel, rightly or wrongly, that Trump was a bulwark against liberals imposing progressivism on them. It's very hard to accurately characterize the motivations of 74 million people, whose individual reasons for supporting Trump vary. You absolutely can refuse to participate. As Etienne de la Boétie pointed out in The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude in the 16th century, State power rests entirely on the acceptance of servitude by the masses, the idea that you just espoused that refusal to participate is impossible. In reality, if enough people simply refused to participate, then the State would crumble without the need for a violent revolution.
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Jan 19, 2021 04:54
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quote:
I’m just amazed at all the moronic implications this sentence carries.
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Jan 19, 2021 04:55
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polymathy posted:I'm living in Portland at the moment. We've had several rounds of Proud Boys versus Antifa / Black Lives Matter street fights with many more surely to come. It's like these people are play-acting civil war.  JROD! QUESTION OF THE CENTURY! WHICH ONE DO YOU WANT TO WIN!!!!! ANTIFA OR PROUDBOY!?!??!?!?!?!?!?
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Jan 19, 2021 05:03
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polymathy posted:In reality, if enough people simply refused to participate, then the State would crumble without the need for a violent revolution. In my mind, if enough people simply *did thing*, then *other thing I want to happen* would happen. I am very smart.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:08
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Karia posted:Welcome back Jrod. The point of my post was not to argue that Trump supporters are proposing or support the idea of secession. I'm arguing why you should support secession as a means of tamping down political conflict and allowing a peaceful alternative to escalating violence and civil war. To be clear, if Trump MAGA supporters were to congregate in, for example, Arizona and vote for the state to secede from the Union you are perfectly happy to allow that to happen with the resulting loss of tax revenue to the Federal Government as well as the precedent that other States could follow?
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Jan 19, 2021 05:09
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polymathy posted:As much as I dislike the Trump MAGA crowd, I'm not sure that's an accurate description of their motivations. No, they don't support secession. But many of them feel, rightly or wrongly, that Trump was a bulwark against liberals imposing progressivism on them. It's very hard to accurately characterize the motivations of 74 million people, whose individual reasons for supporting Trump vary. Buddy that is literally the trump platform, to secure control over america in their interests and its primacy among the nations of the world. You can characterise the specifics of it however you like and argue whether you think it's justified or not and I do not care, but it does not change what it is. It is a political project claiming to put its adherents in control of a society that they believe they have a right to control and which they believe is being corrupted by threats from within and without, which is why people describe it as fascist. And no, you can't just opt out of that. When you are faced with a group of people who are intending to take control of the state either electorally or directly and who intend to use the state to enforce hegemonic control over the rest of the people within its domain, you do not get to just go "no thanks I do not create joinder" and then the state goes "oh well if you put it that way" and leaves you alone. The state exists because it can enforce participation by a variety of processes, direct or indirect, violent or not, but the overruling fact is that you must be made subject to it. One way or another. If you want to break out of that then either the state must collapse, or you must be equipped to fight it head on, or a mixture of both. And the words for that are civil war or revolution, and they necessitate large scale political organization, commensurate to the size of the organization of the thing you are intending to fight, otherwise the larger political entity will simply subsume the smaller one because it can. People do not just en-masse decide to do a thing all at once, any more than all the atoms in your body just decide to move five feet to the right. What creates mass shifts in political activity are changes in conditions and mass scale organization.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:10
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The failed January 6 coup is not at all comparable to the Amish. If you want to make US politics comparisons the Wilmington insurrection of 1898 is right loving there. Virulent racists acting as the aggressors? Attempts to push out a duly elected government? Happened on American soil? The major difference is that the perpetrators of January 6 were wildly incompetent and couldn't get external support, so the plot fizzled out. The rest of polymathy's argument is risible trash as well but I did want to address that point in particular. NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 05:12
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Hey Jrod, in the Antifa vs. Proudboy fight, who did you root for? I'm not rooting for either side. Seriously, people LARPing a civil war are really playing a dangerous game. Goofing around is one thing, but these people on both sides have no idea of how terrible an actual civil war would be.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:12
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polymathy posted:The point of my post was not to argue that Trump supporters are proposing or support the idea of secession. I would not support that, thank you for asking!
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Jan 19, 2021 05:12
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polymathy posted:The point of my post was not to argue that Trump supporters are proposing or support the idea of secession. Mate, I hate to break it to you but the last time a bunch of states decided to secede from the union, it did not prevent civil war.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:13
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polymathy posted:I'm not rooting for either side. That is frighteningly honest. You really are just a national loyalist. You wish to preserve the state at all costs, even if it falls into the hands of the proudboys (fascists).
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Jan 19, 2021 05:16
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"Well the problem is that some people are being forced to share a country with their natural enemies, wouldn't it be cool if we just shoved some off to live independently without having to deal with each other" Sure is a worthwhile argument to make on the day America has chosen to celebrate its most famous anti-segregationist 
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Jan 19, 2021 05:30
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OwlFancier posted:Buddy that is literally the trump platform, to secure control over america in their interests and its primacy among the nations of the world. You can characterise the specifics of it however you like and argue whether you think it's justified or not and I do not care, but it does not change what it is. It is a political project claiming to put its adherents in control of a society that they believe they have a right to control and which they believe is being corrupted by threats from within and without, which is why people describe it as fascist. You're misunderstanding my point. The question I'm proposing is whether or not the Trump threat should lead one to support decentralization and anti-Statism as a political goal, or whether it should lead one to support greater State power, presuming that their side is in power. If you were to agree with me that political decentralization is the goal, so that fascists or any other authoritarian can't wield centralized State power in the first place, then we can discuss the best ways to achieve that goal. But in my experience few Progressives tend to see that as a worthy goal. They seem to rather support centralized State power, presuming that their side will be in power. Additionally, I'm not precluding the eventual need for violent revolution. My only point is that secession and nullification are useful tools to have in our toolbox in the fight against the authoritarian State, whether it's form be fascist, communist, technocratic or whatever. Whatever the position of the MAGA people, a progressive community could support secession in order to disassociate themselves from the fascist State and create their own society at the local level. The funny thing about the Capital riots is that I'm sure we both could envision perfectly valid reasons to storm the capital. The sad thing is that so many people are this passionate about Donald loving Trump. Donald Trump lost the election. It wasn't stolen from him. There may or may not have been some discrepancies or shenanigans here or there but hardly enough to make the difference. I've been open-minded about allegations of election fraud, but I remain unconvinced that any substantial election fraud took place. Just to be clear about my position on this.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:31
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I gotta say, Jrod, you making an argument in favor of ethno-nationalism is neither surprising nor welcome. But it proves the old phrase: Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:33
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polymathy posted:The point of my post was not to argue that Trump supporters are proposing or support the idea of secession. So let me rephrase your question: "If Trump's supporters were an entirely different political movement with different goals (to be left alone, rather than to impose their political will) and different means (peaceful democratic election rather than violent insurrection), would you think something different about them?" I mean, sure. If they were all Bernie supporters then I'd have an entirely different impression. But they're not: they're fascists who attempted a violent insurrection. The question you're asking is wholly disconnected from reality: your framing is objectively false and misleading. Secession in general is impossible to answer: it would depend on the specifics of the situation. If you want to discuss specific examples, then I guess we can, but don't frame a conversation as discussing current events and then change the scenario arbitrarily. Even for you, this is a really obtuse angle.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:38
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polymathy posted:You're misunderstanding my point. The question I'm proposing is whether or not the Trump threat should lead one to support decentralization and anti-Statism as a political goal, or whether it should lead one to support greater State power, presuming that their side is in power. I do, in fact, think political decentralization is generally desirable, but I have a lot of caveats about the when, the how, and the why. Because just breaking things up into smaller countries does not solve the problem posed by fascists, because weirdly they are very much pro centralization and also do not respect borders when it comes to places they believe they should rightfully control. Trying to appease a political movement which believes it has a right to rule america by saying "here, why don't you have this state instead" is not going to work.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:40
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I was also gonna do a writeup explaining how Arizona seceding from the Union would make them more dependent on the rest of the US (how the gently caress does trade with neo-fascist Arizona work? Like, what if France wants to do some trade negotations?) But gently caress it, this isn't worth the time. You have a toddler's understanding of complex systems, Jrod. Picture the colossal fuckup that is Brexit, but like, way more. And that's not because "ooh, the nation-states are making it more complex so they can justify their existence." That's just how this works when millions of people are at play. Stuff gets complex, and your ideology is inherently incapable of understanding that.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:50
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That also, which is another reason I am conditional about decentralization, decentralization purely of some forms of political power but not others is just a different kind of centralization, i.e decentralizing the state but not capital is just handing more power to capital.
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Jan 19, 2021 05:55
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I don't think you ever managed to explain how New Zealand was libertarian.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:02
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Alhazred posted:I don't think you ever managed to explain how New Zealand was libertarian.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:05
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Strike that, I don't think he ever explained how Qatar and the UAE are libertarian despite being slave states.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:09
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It's fun imagining a libertarian getting excited about using fear of Trump to try to sell anti-Statism. But then like doing it through the concept of secession which is totally loving irrelevant.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:09
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NGDBSS posted:The failed January 6 coup is not at all comparable to the Amish. If you want to make US politics comparisons the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898]Wilmington insurrection of 1898[url] is right loving there. Virulent racists acting as the aggressors? Attempts to push out a duly elected government? Happened on American soil? The major difference is that the perpetrators of January 6 were wildly incompetent and couldn't get external support, so the plot fizzled out. My point was merely to point out that my goal is to render all groups of people who don't share my cultural or political beliefs similar to my relationship with the Amish. Meaning, we engage in economic transactions while peacefully coexisting, neither side using politics to enforce their cultural preferences on the other. Furthermore, it's not fair to equate the small number of people who entered the capital on January 6 to 74 million people who voted for Donald Trump.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:17
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Alhazred posted:I don't think you ever managed to explain how New Zealand was libertarian. As someone from there I'd love to know too.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:20
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polymathy posted:My point was merely to point out that my goal is to render all groups of people who don't share my cultural or political beliefs similar to my relationship with the Amish. Meaning, we engage in economic transactions while peacefully coexisting, neither side using politics to enforce their cultural preferences on the other. Which runs up against a pretty obvious problem when one of the cultural or political beliefs they do not share is that using politics to enforce their cultural or political beliefs on others, is wrong. And also assumes that "engaging in economic transactions" carries no cultural or political baggage. And also raises the question of how you are going to "render" them into that state without the use of politics to enforce your preferences.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:23
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polymathy posted:My point was merely to point out that my goal is to render all groups of people who don't share my cultural or political beliefs similar to my relationship with the Amish. Meaning, we engage in economic transactions while peacefully coexisting, neither side using politics to enforce their cultural preferences on the other. Would you treat the Jewish people similarly?
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Jan 19, 2021 06:27
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Cpt_Obvious posted:That is frighteningly honest. The fact that I don't support the political program of either Antifa or the Proud Boys means that I'm a nationalist loyalist and a sympathizer of fascism?! Go back through this thread. I'm stated my preferred political program many times. I am a libertarian anarchist. No political ideology could be more diametrically opposed to fascism than mine.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:28
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