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TyrantWD posted:Putting the blame where it belongs. Terrible things don't happen because these inter-dimensional beings pop into our existence and make it so. Terrible things like this happen because that is what people wanted, or didn't care enough to stop. Problem is people are in the vast majority uninformed if not misinformed about just about everything. All they know is their lives are markedly getting worse. Unfortunately the tribalism that kept us alive for the majority of our existence as a species is extremely easy to exploit for both power and profit by leveraging the anger at "the other." The power structure that exists isn't going to teach and encourage the masses how to dismantle itself for their benefit.
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Jun 25, 2022 03:05
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Potato Salad posted:Is this real, as in has anyone else seen a second source for this It’s stated directly in the text of his concurrence. It was posted a page or two ago in this thread.
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Jun 25, 2022 03:07
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haveblue posted:It's real, but it's not breaking news. This is in one of the concurrences released with the opinion this morning. No information on how the other justices feel about this, Thomas writes crazy poo poo all the time I mean, overturning settled law like Roe was also considered crazy talk…
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Jun 25, 2022 03:09
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haveblue posted:It's real, but it's not breaking news. This is in one of the concurrences released with the opinion this morning. No information on how the other justices feel about this, Thomas writes crazy poo poo all the time yeah, I generally try to check my scotus takes against actual non-felonious non-disbarred lawyers, but "court writes opinion, thomas pens separate concurrence arguing the Department of Labor is unconstitutional" is the perfectly normal state of affairs I have no opinion at this time on how many of the other shitters are likely to agree with this particular insane take
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Jun 25, 2022 03:11
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GreyjoyBastard posted:yeah, I generally try to check my scotus takes against actual non-felonious non-disbarred lawyers, but "court writes opinion, thomas pens separate concurrence arguing the Department of Labor is unconstitutional" is the perfectly normal state of affairs Has GWB reflected on whether or not he still believes Thomas was a good appointee to SCOTUS?
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Jun 25, 2022 03:17
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Wizard Master posted:I hope everyone that stayed home on Election Day in 2016 is happy with themselves right now. No we’ve decided it’s the democrats’ fault because it’s a day ending in “y” and also we can’t be bothered to understand how the government works.
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Jun 25, 2022 03:18
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Tiler Kiwi posted:Does shaming voters work, or is it just a way to ignore the problems of an implicitly anti democratic system in favor of a moral parable? Id be down with it if it was actually demonstrably effective at all. what matters is your immediate social world. if the people shaming you were your friends or church community, who knows, maybe it might change the way you vote to some extent. it's probably more effective than shame in other areas (like habitual behaviors etc) because all you need to do is get a person to do a single thing: voting is one-shot. otoh other strategies might work as well or better. but no, shaming people who don't really know you and have no reason to care about your opinion is not going to work.
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Jun 25, 2022 03:20
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Ogmius815 posted:No we’ve decided it’s the democrats’ fault because it’s a day ending in “y” and also we can’t be bothered to understand how the government works. its funny that some people are apparently just encountering wizard master for the first time.
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Jun 25, 2022 03:21
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bad guy posted:its funny that some people are apparently just encountering wizard master for the first time. He is always a gem when he pops into the CSPAM podcast thread. But I think it’s still unresolved if he is a wizard who has achieved mastery, or a master with a number of wizards as subordinates
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Jun 25, 2022 04:13
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TyrantWD posted:As George Carlin said- "If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to have selfish, ignorant leaders." The voters have had it too loving good and someone better take them down a peg
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Jun 25, 2022 04:14
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How does the judiciary work in other countries? Are their supreme courts unleashing policy revolutions and then undoing them? American’s the only rich democracy that seems to concentrate so much power in their supreme courts.
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Jun 25, 2022 04:20
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Vegetable posted:How does the judiciary work in other countries? Are their supreme courts unleashing policy revolutions and then undoing them? American’s the only rich democracy that seems to concentrate so much power in their supreme courts. Most countries don't have a small number of lifetime appointments to courts politicised to the same extent as the US, which combined with legal recognitions typically not being setup in the same way as the US Bill Of Rights means there is less ability and motivation for the courts to make sweeping decisions, along with governments typically having more ways to rewrite rejected legislation to get around court decisions.
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Jun 25, 2022 04:29
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More counties with newer constitutions or a history of peaceably deeply redrafting constitutions expressly codify way more human rights and criminal rights and procedural norms than we do
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Jun 25, 2022 04:36
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Vegetable posted:How does the judiciary work in other countries? Are their supreme courts unleashing policy revolutions and then undoing them? American’s the only rich democracy that seems to concentrate so much power in their supreme courts. The main problem is that our legislature does not function well at all. If we had an effective legislative branch that could respond to the need to create and revise laws then the court would not have been able to fill the void as thoroughly as they have. Almost everything the supreme court does could be easily undone by congress if it (specifically the Senate) wasn't so thoroughly broken.
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Jun 25, 2022 04:40
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Potato Salad posted:More counties with newer constitutions or a history of peaceably deeply redrafting constitutions expressly codify way more human rights and criminal rights and procedural norms than we do This. The fact that the US Constitution is nearly 250 years old without major revision is actually working against our progression as a society.
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Jun 25, 2022 04:40
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Shooting Blanks posted:This. The fact that the US Constitution is nearly 250 years old without major revision is actually working against our progression as a society. Actually the real impediment to progress as a society is that Americans are absolutely horrible and actively support regressive policies and politicians.
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Jun 25, 2022 04:48
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Some Americans. The system gives them disproportionate influence
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Jun 25, 2022 04:50
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wide pluralities support both democratic issues and candidates, however the geographic distribution of people means that a small minority control pretty much all levels of government. people being horrible and regressive isn't really the issue so much as the government isn't at all representative of the people.
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Jun 25, 2022 04:55
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Vegetable posted:How does the judiciary work in other countries? Are their supreme courts unleashing policy revolutions and then undoing them? American’s the only rich democracy that seems to concentrate so much power in their supreme courts. See, deep down this is not really a judicial issue, but a legislative one. All other developed countries went the normal route and got an abortion bill passed through their parlamentary system.
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Jun 25, 2022 05:06
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Shooting Blanks posted:This. The fact that the US Constitution is nearly 250 years old without major revision is actually working against our progression as a society. My god the fact that this take exists and isn't some nightmare machination of mine is disturbing. Total and complete lib brain to think some document that nobody gives a gently caress about or reads has any influence on anything. edit lol just realized its the upper class mirror of sovereign citizen weirdos shouting magna carta poo poo at cops. nobody cares man lol. it's not like some cop checks his pocket constitution before blasting some little black kid sleeping in their bed (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) thehandtruck fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Jun 25, 2022 |
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Jun 25, 2022 05:13
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haveblue posted:Some Americans. The system gives them disproportionate influence The majority of them are ambivalent and can also get hosed.
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Jun 25, 2022 05:17
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Bel Shazar posted:The majority of them are ambivalent and can also get hosed. What is the point of all this vote shaming? It won’t help, and in fact will have the opposite effect. These are womens lives we are talking about, so actual policy results matter, not just the excuse du jour of why the dems can never pass anything, but the republicans somehow have no issue ramming their policy through when they are in control.
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Jun 25, 2022 05:27
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Wonder how the protests are going. https://twitter.com/az_rww/status/1540544199056949249?s=21&t=jypAc0a_H0u6xTTYZ8pQNA Ah yeah, right
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Jun 25, 2022 05:42
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cat botherer posted:You realize how little mental and physical bandwidth most Americans have for caring about politics? Everyone is exhausted and can only worry about so many things. You can’t expect the average cashier or CNA to pay attention when they’ve got all their own poo poo to worry about, and they don’t see the dems doing anything for them. Yeah I'm tired too. If you can't pay attention use compassion, but even that seems too hard for way too many people. The continued support of our current system is one of the things that is enabling these events. I'm in no way disparaging the minority of people who are generally decent, but the malignant fucks and the rest of the ambivalent populace outnumber them.
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Jun 25, 2022 05:53
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cat botherer posted:What is the point of all this vote shaming? It won’t help, and in fact will have the opposite effect. These are womens lives we are talking about, so actual policy results matter, not just the excuse du jour of why the dems can never pass anything, but the republicans somehow have no issue ramming their policy through when they are in control. Vote shaming diffuses responsibility out and down. It's a way to pass blame from anyone in charge to whoever you are arguing with, because there's always something more that could have been done to support the good team. The good team lost? Your fault for not voting for them. The good team won, but still isn't doing anything? You and 30,000 of your closest friends should have moved to rural Wisconsin to vote for a conservative democrat so they could switch up with Manchin on who gets to vote against the party. It's the deep seated belief that politicians can not fail, they can only be failed because they didn't get enough votes. It's your personal responsibility to do whatever it takes to vote for democrats, no matter how many times they've failed, or how little they represent your beliefs.
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Jun 25, 2022 06:33
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Yeah, I don’t see how the democrats could ever protect abortion. There are a nontrivial amount of antiabortion democrats, like the current president of the United States (whatever he currently says about his beliefs, he’s got a long record) and the winner of a house primary in Texas that was so important to democrats that Nancy Pelosi went down there to make sure he beat the pro-abortion democrat he was running against. Bob Casey was essential to the boil-the-frog strategy for banning abortion that had been favored until this ruling. Abortion rights are not a priority for the democratic party because they’d rather everyone lose rights than shrink their coalition.
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Jun 25, 2022 06:53
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cat botherer posted:You realize how little mental and physical bandwidth most Americans have for caring about politics? Everyone is exhausted and can only worry about so many things. You can’t expect the average cashier or CNA to pay attention when they’ve got all their own poo poo to worry about, and they don’t see the dems doing anything for them. There's a lesson somewhere in here. Reminds me of The Great Hanoi Rat Massacre. It's a great story about the Law of Unintended Consequences and how reality can subvert expected outcomes in inconceivable ways. The thing about models we build in our heads is that they always work. In our heads. Democracy, like so many things, is an innovative and great idea. It makes complete logical sense in the sterile, oversimplified cartoon world laboratory of your mind. However, implement it in the real world and cracks begin to emerge and grow so large that you wonder how they could've ever not been obvious. https://twitter.com/peyton_ford/status/1324031555812139009
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Jun 25, 2022 07:06
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Tiler Kiwi posted:Does shaming voters work, or is it just a way to ignore the problems of an implicitly anti democratic system in favor of a moral parable? Id be down with it if it was actually demonstrably effective at all. Shaming voters accomplishes nothing but making more non-voters, especially when their complaints about antidemocratic impediments designed to keep the 'wrong votes from mattering are extremely valid Simultaneously though leftists obsessively convincing other leftists not to vote is just doing legwork for the most terrible people in the country so I have little better to say about it as a personal crusade
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Jun 25, 2022 07:18
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oh no
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Jun 25, 2022 08:28
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Potato Salad posted:Is this real, as in has anyone else seen a second source for this Please look forward to the 6-3 decision re-segregating the country, penned by Thomas. Grip it and rip it posted:Actually the real impediment to progress as a society is that Americans are absolutely horrible and actively support regressive policies and politicians. Abortion, gay rights, universal healthcare, and a bunch of other progressive policies have wide support in the US but sure go ahead with these lead-brained takes. Two party and team politics is a hell of a drug for low information voters.
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Jun 25, 2022 09:19
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Shooting Blanks posted:This. The fact that the US Constitution is nearly 250 years old without major revision is actually working against our progression as a society. Grip it and rip it posted:Actually the real impediment to progress as a society is that Americans are absolutely horrible and actively support regressive policies and politicians. It's both. And there is a 0% chance either of these problems are resolved in our lifetimes. Pretty solid chance they get much worse.
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Jun 25, 2022 10:21
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-Blackadder- posted:There's a lesson somewhere in here. Reminds me of The Great Hanoi Rat Massacre. It's a great story about the Law of Unintended Consequences and how reality can subvert expected outcomes in inconceivable ways. I promise you the issue here isn't loving democracy.
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Jun 25, 2022 11:27
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Internet Explorer posted:I promise you the issue here isn't loving democracy.
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Jun 25, 2022 14:31
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Internet Explorer posted:I promise you the issue here isn't loving democracy. It’s actually quite the opposite. The problem is that the right wing is well positioned to exploit the Constitution’s counter-majoritarian institutions (the Senate, the electoral college) such that ~30% of the population can effectively govern the country. The problem is actually too little democracy.
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Jun 25, 2022 14:33
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Vietnom nom nom posted:Very real, the opinion: quote:And no one should be confident that this majority is done It was announced with the overturn that this only affects abortion rights and no other sexual rights. But the same arguments to overturn Roe v Wade were used in other court cases and was a chain reaction?
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Jun 25, 2022 14:41
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CmdrRiker posted:It was announced with the overturn that this only affects abortion rights and no other sexual rights. But the same arguments to overturn Roe v Wade were used in other court cases and was a chain reaction? It’s a chain reaction if SCOTUS wants it to be a chain reaction. Basically 8 justices have said no chain reaction yet.
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Jun 25, 2022 14:54
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ulmont posted:It’s a chain reaction if SCOTUS wants it to be a chain reaction. Basically 8 justices have said no chain reaction yet. This sounds to me like a threat.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:02
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CmdrRiker posted:It was announced with the overturn that this only affects abortion rights and no other sexual rights. But the same arguments to overturn Roe v Wade were used in other court cases and was a chain reaction? If they followed their judicial logic used in Dobbs and not their policy preferrences they would have to overturn them all and thereby force Congress to codify them through the legislative process, which should be uncontroversial except for Obergefell. But given that no one joined Thomas in his opinion, they will probably not do it for political reasons.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:02
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CmdrRiker posted:It was announced with the overturn that this only affects abortion rights and no other sexual rights. But the same arguments to overturn Roe v Wade were used in other court cases and was a chain reaction? Yes, Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergfell are all very specifically in the crosshairs as the next targets. Loving v. Virginia could also be targeted with similar rationale, but it was left out of Thomas’ dissent because it was decided on equal protection grounds instead of via substantive due process. All court provided civil rights are potentially gone, and the current court has even stripped and curtailed legislation to protect people all the same. There is only one solution to this situation, and it isn’t going to be fun or pretty.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:03
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GaussianCopula posted:If they followed their judicial logic used in Dobbs and not their policy preferrences they would have to overturn them all and thereby force Congress to codify them through the legislative process, which should be uncontroversial except for Obergefell. I refuse to believe you actually live in the US
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Jun 25, 2022 15:04
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