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I already looked up the owner + occupation earlier. That being said, I'd trust a real estate lawyer more than than a real estate agent, but it's still something to raise eyebrows. I didn't think to look up county records. I only looked at the city records, so it's good to know there's more/supplemental information from the county.
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Jul 1, 2020 01:32
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Btw, more personally, I wouldn't buy that house. The kitchen island is too small (so the photographer did some obviously terrible camera bullshit to try to hide it), I hate the concept of ADUs (you might like them), the decks seem like a pita to maintain (you might like them), the grading seems difficult to deal with, and all of the bedrooms are too large in the wrong ways. It's just a waste of space with a bad layout that makes the house feel dark inside  But those are my personal opinions.
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Jul 1, 2020 01:35
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ntan1 posted:Btw, more personally, I wouldn't buy that house. The kitchen island is too small (so the photographer did some obviously terrible camera bullshit to try to hide it), I hate the concept of ADUs (you might like them), the decks seem like a pita to maintain (you might like them), the grading seems difficult to deal with, and all of the bedrooms are too large in the wrong ways. It's just a waste of space with a bad layout that makes the house feel dark inside I'm probably not going to for a variety of reasons mentioned so far. Realistically, I'm probably going to end up with something much more conventional, it's just fun looking at weird houses that happen to be within my budget in case one turns out not to be a huge potential money pit. Well more so than normal houses would be.
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Jul 1, 2020 01:48
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I'm more concerned that the deck addition and a sizeable portion of the roof seem to be entirely dependent on 2 untreated 2x4"s that don't actually tie in directly to the support structure of the lower deck. But I'm not a structural engineer, so ymmv.
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Jul 1, 2020 01:48
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gwrtheyrn posted:I'm probably not going to for a variety of reasons mentioned so far. Realistically, I'm probably going to end up with something much more conventional, it's just fun looking at weird houses that happen to be within my budget in case one turns out not to be a huge potential money pit. Well more so than normal houses would be. I would go start looking at houses around to get a feel for looking at houses. I marched our realtor+wife+dad through 3 or 4 more houses after we liked our first one, which we bought, just to make sure we weren't missing something. Might as well get that out of the way.
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Jul 1, 2020 01:52
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Well instead of being outbid by insane amounts we actually won the bid! After losing 3 bids by anywhere between 10 and 100K, we found a much smaller place than we had anticipated buying, but really like and importantly didn’t sacrifice on location like the one we lost by 10k. Now I get to learn how to get all this underwriting/etc stuff done before an aggressive closing date.
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Jul 1, 2020 01:57
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H110Hawk posted:I would go start looking at houses around to get a feel for looking at houses. I marched our realtor+wife+dad through 3 or 4 more houses after we liked our first one, which we bought, just to make sure we weren't missing something. Might as well get that out of the way. I've been looking around for 3 years now. I already have a neighborhood I'd really like to be in, but it's a pretty small one that has only had 2 sales in the last 5 years, and a good number of them are beyond my means. There was one listing this year which is when I found that area, but I didn't make an offer on it before it sold because it was right before all the covid lockdowns started. Other than that, it's not so much liking houses as much as being okay with them + location. I can't generally afford a house that I'd really like because most of those would be well beyond my means. I can always just keep waiting and piling up more cash since as I'm living rent free
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Jul 1, 2020 02:02
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I've not tried this but apparently you can have your agent made unsolicited offers to the owners, if there's something there that might be in your range, but is not for sale No idea how that would pan out, my guess is most owners ignore buyout offers, but in this economy who knows
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Jul 1, 2020 02:06
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therobit posted:I think you are looking at the 2% of mortgages that default ever and are generalizing that to everyone. Home ownership is a pathway to financial stability and wealth for most Americans that buy a home. You keep bringing up a worst case scenario that isn't likely to happen, and my answer to that is that one should deal with that in the way we already have laid down in the law, and that it isn't the end of the world. I don't think it is likely most people wind up there to begin with if they aren't already making a bunch of dumb decisions BESIDES buying a house. Like buying groceries on credit and taking out loans for jet skis. This should be quoted in the OP so people coming into this thread know how to read your advice. To add to what others have already responded, you just told us that this foreclosure rate is low because: therobit posted:It helps of you are at the beginning of your career and likely to increase your income. Worst case if you have a bunch of revolving debt you can bankrupt and re-affirm the mortgage. Which should also be in the OP. Motronic fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 02:09
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Yeah, in the case of Kirkland I would personally be looking at the neighborhood more than the house. The prices are high enough that I'd consider remodeling in the future. This is by the way what a lot of my friends in Seattle are doing.
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Jul 1, 2020 02:10
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therobit posted:What I take issue with is the degree to which you all are overstating the risks. I'm actually happy for you, but I would like you to acknowledge that A) having survived the roll of the dice, you can't objectively look at the odds of the dice coming up snakeyes any more. You have a confirmation of your risk paying off that biases you towards that risk. You are also adding in details that were not discussed before: access to credit, an ability to pay that debt, all the other factors that go into determining what, for you, is an acceptable risk and what risk mitigations are available to you. When a random Joe comes into the thread and all we know is income and house cost, we can't do that exercise for them; our basic responsibility is instead to lay out and characterize what the risks are. We can't stop someone from buying a house, but we can try to make sure they're being realistic about what they are getting into. Many newcomers simply haven't imagined all the various ways things can go wrong; basically all of them have imagined the way it can go right, which is like your case: equity, wealth, happiness, satisfaction of owning a home, etc. etc. We don't need to point out that if they buy a house, in ten years it might be worth a lot more, that's obvious to everyone (although the historic long-term US-wide trend is something on the order of 2-3% annual appreciation of value, e.g., only keeping up with inflation, so again we need to warn people that rapid increases in value are not guaranteed). therobit posted:And again I say that mortgage defaults are comparatively rare, and you are overstating the risk that buying a house for 150k on a 42k income with no other debt is going to lead to disaster. That's just not true. You are making something of a category error. If the overall default rate is 2%, that does not mean that a person buying a 150k home on a 42k income is subject to that same 2% default rate, because the default rate is not identical across all categories of home owners. In fact, the people at highest risk of default are the homeowners with the lowest incomes, the highest debt-to-income ratios, the most vulnerable to unemployment, and with the least savings available to draw on. That first factor is really important, becasue there's a baseline cost of subsistence (food, transport, childcare, etc.) below which a person can't really go; if a family has to choose between not paying the mortgage and going hungry, they don't pay the mortgage. Middle-class and especially upper-middle class to wealthy families have far more lifestyle choices they can cut, if their income is suddenly reduced, before they're faced with such a desperate choice. So, someone buying a house that costs about three times their income, but who makes $80k a year, is at much lower risk of default than someone buying a house that costs three times their income, but makes $40k a year. Additionally, lower-income buyers have fewer avenues to draw on for emergency money. They typically have far less credit at far worse terms, so drawing on credit cards can be difficult (and becoming unemployed can cause previously-established credit to vanish); and their extended families are less likely to have the ability to gift or loan them money to help them through a few months of unemployment or a serious medical crisis that leaves them unable to pay the mortgage. So that 2% number is super-misleading. The people getting subprime loans were the ones getting foreclosed on. The people who lost their jobs and couldn't last a few months on savings. The people whose families couldn't cough up thousands of dollars to help them through rough times. Someone with a $42k income buying a house for $150k is at more risk of default than the general homebuying population. It's still not a super high risk, based on only those two factors: but the buyer should beware of additional factors that increase their risk. Condition and quality of the home, availability of emergency credit, security of employment, volatility in the local market, family resources, and many other things affect the risk. If their sewer line collapses and it's under a driveway and a sidewalk and part of the street and they suddenly need $15k, that could push someone just barely affording their home on a $42k salary into a very bad situation. Maybe it wouldn't have put you into such a bad situation, but you're not Joe Average, and we shouldn't assume that someone asking in the thread is Joe Average either.
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Jul 1, 2020 02:14
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Leperflesh posted:If their sewer line collapses and it's under a driveway and a sidewalk and part of the street and they suddenly need $15k, that could push someone just barely affording their home on a $42k salary into a very bad situation. Maybe it wouldn't have put you into such a bad situation, but you're not Joe Average, and we shouldn't assume that someone asking in the thread is Joe Average either. Jokes on you I have two sewer lines in my house! But less joking aside, remember that the 2% doesn't cover people who are forced to sell their home.Wealthy people dont make decisions that add risk without some calculated return on reward.
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Jul 1, 2020 02:19
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I used to live in Texas making that much money and decided against trying to buy a house. Some other options: 1) 1 bedroom/studio, with a plan to upgrade in 5 years 2) manufactured home (I know you explicitly said you didn't want this) 3) commit to a 90 minute commute At the $42k tier I had several coworkers who owned 5+ acres of land and had horses and poo poo, because they had bought way the hell out of town and just dealt with the commute. One coworker rented a lovely $350/mo studio near the office tues-thurs and then lived at the house fri-mon There are a bunch of alternate options, but you're going to have to compromise a lot to get what you want at that price point
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Jul 1, 2020 02:26
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ntan1 posted:Jokes on you I have two sewer lines in my house! Yup. Although I'd argue that some wealthy people do all kinds of stupid poo poo, because there's millions of clueless middle-managers living stupidly on $250k salaries out there and dumping piles of cash into the absolute grift that is the "financial services industry." Be very careful looking to the wealthy for financial role models. And for the record, my argument isn't with the general idea of "people making $42k maybe could afford a house and if they do buy it'll usually work out OK." Just the attack on the thread's general conservativism when it comes to advice is, perhaps well-meaning, but misplaced.
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Jul 1, 2020 02:26
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Is this not the "talk me out of buying a house" thread? I'd rather have people giving me extremely conservative advice than overly optimistic advice. If after all the warnings, you think it's still right for you, then you've either thought it through enough and are confident that it's the right move for you, or you casually dismissed everything in which case it doesn't matter what people said.
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Jul 1, 2020 02:39
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gwrtheyrn posted:Is this not the "talk me out of buying a house" thread? Sometimes it sure seems like it. But really, it's the "make sure the house you buy is something you can afford and not a dumpster fire" thread. It looks like the "talk me out of buying a house" thread because so many starry-eyed prospective home buyers come in here with a prequal of more than they can reasonably afford and think that's a good budget.
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Jul 1, 2020 02:49
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Is it worth shopping around with different home insurance brokers? She asked for my social to pull credit which made me really nervous, but apparently that's pretty par for the course and not a big deal. Still gave me some jitters as I'd been told over and over again to avoid doing a hard pull during closing.
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Jul 1, 2020 03:09
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For home insurance, have them pull it after the bank does their credit check. One day prior to doing so, confirm with your loan agent that you want to go with. Worst case scenario, the underwriter needs a letter of explanation and you're done (can be a one liner).
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Jul 1, 2020 03:17
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When I bought my most recent place, the bank had a line during closing that said I'm not allowed to declare homestead on this multi-unit that I'm owner-occupying. The lawyer said "welp, that's so nothing can stop them from foreclosing on you". But the same heap of paperwork I had to sign at closing also had a Declaration of Homestead that I had to sign anyway, and checking now, it was recorded in the county registry of deeds. Does the bank's rule take precedence, or is it maybe not enforceable in Massachusetts?
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Jul 1, 2020 03:24
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Bioshuffle posted:Is it worth shopping around with different home insurance brokers? I prefer to use an independent insurance agent that can quote 25-50+ insurance companies for me. My current homeowners is like half of what the folks playing commercials on TV charge. Just make sure the company has an A rating. You might not have heard of the “Bearded Woodsman of the North Pole Mutual Insurance company*” but an independent agency can quote them as they don’t deal with the general public. Generally the credit pull insurance companies do is a soft pull and won’t count as an inquiry. That’s my understanding and could be wrong If your already using an independent agent it can’t hurt to try a second one, but I wouldn’t engage a bunch of them. * not a real insurance company
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Jul 1, 2020 03:39
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Leperflesh posted:I'm actually happy for you, but I would like you to acknowledge that A) having survived the roll of the dice, you can't objectively look at the odds of the dice coming up snakeyes any more. You have a confirmation of your risk paying off that biases you towards that risk. 2% is people who get between 30 and 89 days late. Most of them come current. Foreclosures are closer to one half of one percent right now, though higher in New Jersey and Florida. Subprime loans aren't much of a thing anymore and to the extent they are, lenders don't tend to make them to people who don't make enough money to pay back. Subprime is defined by the credit score, not the income. I spent years underwriting equity and refinance loans along with consumer credit. Consumer debt burden is a much better predictor of default than income or even DTI. Despite not lending now for several years, I still have a few hundred million kicking around in my portfolio, and my delinquency percentage is still under 0.3% for home loans. I have a familiarity with what causes defaults and foreclosures, and it's not all about income level. The worst hits my portfolio took outside of outright fraud were high income single borrowers who had credit card debt and not a whole lot of assets. You're acting like it's a miracle that I didn't bankrupt myself, but it is in fact totally mundane. I don't think the thread should tell people not to buy without understanding their situation, and I think that overall the take is too conservative. If it was at all measured and in the spirit of "here are some things to consider before you buy," I wouldn't feel so strongly about it, but more often than not it's "you can't afford that" or "don't buy right now." Which ignores the overwhelming majority of the time when people are just fine. That's the core of my argument. The loans perform. And I think if you assume anything about someone, it should be that, absent other information, they will be more likely to fall closer to Joe average than further away.
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Jul 1, 2020 03:52
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He's looking at excel sheets, that explains it. Not the crippling house poor a lot of those people are actually in. Food, utilities, house payments. Then everything else. Everything else is a lot and is very impactful to quality of life. I've know these people. I KNOW people like that now. It's not pretty.
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Jul 1, 2020 03:57
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skipdogg posted:I prefer to use an independent insurance agent that can quote 25-50+ insurance companies for me. My current homeowners is like half of what the folks playing commercials on TV charge. Just make sure the company has an A rating. You might not have heard of the “Bearded Woodsman of the North Pole Mutual Insurance company*” but an independent agency can quote them as they don’t deal with the general public. https://www.usacoverage.com/insurance-company-profiles/Modern-Woodmen-of-America-Insurance-Company.html You are correct about it being a soft hit most of the time. Even if it wasn't it would show as an insurer and be disregarded.
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Jul 1, 2020 03:58
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Bioshuffle posted:Is it worth shopping around with different home insurance brokers? If any underwriter gave me poo poo about that I would reply with "I am shopping around for that thing you require me to have to take out this mortgage" then probably quote 10 more out of spite, making sure to get a pull on each one. Spite is best served with several alcoholic beverages. More than your credit they are likely getting your CLUE report. It's a thing you should pull once in a blue moon that no one talks about but impacts your rates if there is anything on it. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/con...iting-exchange/
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Jul 1, 2020 04:16
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My partner and I are looking at this house on Thursday: it's very plain. I can't see anything glaring. New insulation means no wood shavings in the walls, and I'm hoping it also means that there's been some reduction in the amount of asbestos. The neighbourhood kinda sucks though. It's mostly post-war housing that has a 50/50 ratio on what's been taken care of. Low income townhomes are also close by. My partner seems to think we won't get murdered so we'll see.
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Jul 1, 2020 05:40
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Not bad, looks good for a cozy 2 person dwelling. I rented a similar style house but it was built in 1912 so hopefully there are several improvements. I lived happily there with the realization it was a century old house. For me personally baseboard heat isn't ideal, but it is what it is. Take a good look at the hardwood floors; look the agent in the eye and ask if they are original. Pretty nice, if basic, but probably right in line for the area. Do your standard due diligence and inspection before considering an offer.
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Jul 1, 2020 06:00
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Bi-la kaifa posted:My partner and I are looking at this house on Thursday: it's very plain. This looks great. Better use of space than my house in many ways. (Also a post-war 1250 3/2 tract home.)
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Jul 1, 2020 17:58
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I just went through buying home insurance (and changing auto) for my new home today. The independent agent I worked with did not ask for my social, and I guess the company I went with didn't need my social. I was also really glad to have spoken with an agent rather than just sticking with an online insurance platform like Progressive because my coverage was inadequate and I kind of just never needed to think about it. Having a person tell you not to be a dumbass is helpful. I significantly increased my auto coverage from $100k/300k/50k to $500k flat total and added a $1mm umbrella policy and it only added about $300 per year. Also, my house hit the market this morning. Literally booked from 9:30am-8:30pm today and most of Thursday/Friday are already scheduled, at this point we have 2 offers (but I don't know how good they are). I'm starting to get really uneasy about the amount of foot traffic in my house now.
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Jul 1, 2020 21:38
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Pray for me y'all I forgot myself and poo poo all over a (gently caress ugly) chandelier in the house I'm trying to buy.
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Jul 1, 2020 23:50
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Andy Dufresne posted:I just went through buying home insurance (and changing auto) for my new home today. The independent agent I worked with did not ask for my social, and I guess the company I went with didn't need my social. I was also really glad to have spoken with an agent rather than just sticking with an online insurance platform like Progressive because my coverage was inadequate and I kind of just never needed to think about it. Having a person tell you not to be a dumbass is helpful. I significantly increased my auto coverage from $100k/300k/50k to $500k flat total and added a $1mm umbrella policy and it only added about $300 per year. The insurance broker sold you on buying more insurance? Well I never...
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Jul 1, 2020 23:58
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Bi-la kaifa posted:My partner and I are looking at this house on Thursday: it's very plain.
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Jul 2, 2020 00:06
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TheWevel posted:The insurance broker sold you on buying more insurance? Well I never... I know goons are really into being contrarians, but are you suggesting that my previous coverage was sufficient or are you just shitposting?
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Jul 2, 2020 00:17
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Andy Dufresne posted:I know goons are really into being contrarians, but are you suggesting that my previous coverage was sufficient or are you just shitposting? I'm with you personally. Sounds like a bargain to me assuming the rest of the plan elements are similar or better. I also chuckled at the comment.
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Jul 2, 2020 00:36
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Found another fun listing. Well the listing itself isn't that fun, it's a generic house with terrible pictures. What's interesting is the history of the house--I linked this to someone in that area and got a great response. Gee I wonder why they were trying to sell in june 2018
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Jul 2, 2020 02:01
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therobit posted:You're acting like it's a miracle that I didn't bankrupt myself, but it is in fact totally mundane. quote:I don't think the thread should tell people not to buy without understanding their situation, and I think that overall the take is too conservative. If it was at all measured and in the spirit of "here are some things to consider before you buy," I wouldn't feel so strongly about it, but more often than not it's "you can't afford that" or "don't buy right now."
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Jul 2, 2020 02:29
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Andy Dufresne posted:I know goons are really into being contrarians, but are you suggesting that my previous coverage was sufficient or are you just shitposting? It’s your journey and all that but I’m not entirely sure being up sold by an insurance agent is any kind of favor to you. It’s a sales job.
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Jul 2, 2020 02:38
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Leperflesh posted:I never did. quote:I'm actually happy for you, but I would like you to acknowledge that A) having survived the roll of the dice, you can't objectively look at the odds of the dice coming up snakeyes any more. Leperflesh posted:
Motronic posted:So yeah, that's WAY more than you should be spending on a house. Think more like $120k. Hoodwinker posted:Then you're in the unfortunate situation where either "increase your income" or "you don't buy a house" are the two fiscally responsible options. You could potentially buy a house on your income and then rent a room in it, but that's just "increase your income" with extra risk and steps. Leperflesh posted:
Uh, this started because more than one person in the thread told a guy making $43k/yr with no other debt that he couldn't afford a $170k house. Which, assuming a reasonable down payment, would leave him with a payment of $1k. I also qualified it with "assuming you don't also have a car note or credit card debt."
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Jul 2, 2020 03:07
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I’m phone posting so not checking the math, but that poster is in Texas, so remember we Texans don’t have a state income tax. Instead we pay 1.8 to 3 or more percent of the houses market value in property taxes. Taxes on my last house around 170k of appraisal was 3500 a year after homestead exemption
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Jul 2, 2020 03:52
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TheWevel posted:It’s your journey and all that but I’m not entirely sure being up sold by an insurance agent is any kind of favor to you. It’s a sales job. I'm not trying to pick on you, but that's a very immature view of a transaction; you're acting as though the client has no agency. I weighed the value of my $300 against the value of reducing the chance of bankrupting my family and it was one of the easiest decisions of my life. Permanently disabling someone in a car accident had been far and away the biggest risk to my family's assets. I wonder what you think I should have done in this situation. Told the agent to stuff it, give me my same old policy but make it cheaper? Ask someone else to give me the same policy just to deny the guy his commission? Ask Something Awful for insurance advice instead of an independent broker? (SA's advice is to see an independent broker).
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Jul 2, 2020 04:06
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I think a lot of posters here and elsewhere jump the gun on whether a home is affordable by simply looking at home price vs. income and never even consider the size of the down payment. For a cheaper house on a middling salary, it really can make or break the feasibility of a purchase.
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Jul 2, 2020 04:07
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