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Jordan7hm posted:but dominic white liked them Any smart person has long ago learned to ignore Dominic White on practically anything involving video games. As for the BD map pack, when it's not literal freedoom levels, the maps Mark made himself are pretty decent and really he should stick to mapping instead of slapdash gameplay mods with spaghetti code that don't bother to credit people half the time.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:21
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Good to know that I'm wrong about everything, except when I'm right? I'm far from the only one enjoying those maps in these this thread, but I'm apparently the only person people get mad at for enjoying things. I'm also apparently the hugest fan of Brutal Doom except that I'm not and would much rather wait for the next Project Brutality update which most agree is far better. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 01:14
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a retard posted:Any smart person has long ago learned to ignore Dominic White on practically anything involving video games. As for the BD map pack, when it's not literal freedoom levels, the maps Mark made himself are pretty decent and really he should stick to mapping instead of slapdash gameplay mods with spaghetti code that don't bother to credit people half the time.  (you don't need to ignore dominic you just need to know he has no bad words to say about content creation and plan accordingly)
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Jan 6, 2016 01:27
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There's a whole lot of stuff I don't like. I just don't tend to talk about it because I'd much rather be playing and talking about the stuff I do like? I'm really not a fan of ultra-oldschool stuff like DTWID - it's cool for the folks who want more 199X style levels, but I'd much rather see stuff that pushes the ever-expanding envelope. Hell, I think the basic Doom 1/2 maps haven't aged well at all and there's about a hundred modern wads that I'd much rather play. It's also cool that Kaiser ported Turok (and is still updating it), but I don't think I'll ever buy it because that early wonky era of console FPS's just doesn't do it for me. I must admit that I did really enjoy the XBLA version of Perfect Dark. Powerslave EX is still underrated. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 01:31
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Dominic White posted:There's a whole lot of stuff I don't like. I just don't tend to talk about it because I'd much rather be playing and talking about the stuff I do like? I'm really not a fan of ultra-oldschool stuff like DTWID - it's cool for the folks who want more 199X style levels, but I'd much rather see stuff that pushes the ever-expanding envelope. I am ok reading your thoughts on stuff, because sometimes you do point out real gems, I just take praise you dish out with a huge grain of salt. E: ^^^^^ powerslave ex is loving awesome I agree. I was surprised how good it was (uh except the very start where I had no clue I was supposed to blow up the wall)
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Jan 6, 2016 01:37
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Generally speaking, I really like simulationist-leaning stuff, using the expanding capabilities of the engine to make things look more like real space. While a lot of people swear by the more abstract purist style of mapping, I'd much rather see more stuff like Going Down and Hellbound. GD in particular does so much with its concept. Outside of Unloved (which used a hub-based system, I believe) have there been any attempts to make a single multi-floor megadungeon campaign, where you have to frequently travel up and down through the structure? Doom by way of System Shock 1?
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Jan 6, 2016 01:49
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Dominic White posted:Powerslave EX is still underrated. I am looking forward to Night Dive getting that situation sorted, though.
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Jan 6, 2016 02:03
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Shadow Hog posted:Being pulled from the Internet presumably for legal reasons has that effect on games. I mean Powerslave (console) in general is underrated, but the EX port (especially the new Hard mode) is really drat good and the game handles so much better on PC. I originally played it on the Saturn. A single analogue stick just isn't enough. Still managed it, somehow.
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Jan 6, 2016 02:06
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you can still find Powerslave online if you Muck around on the web or ask the right people
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Jan 6, 2016 02:14
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You and I both. Took me like eight years of off-and-on play to manage it, though. Personally, I don't just want Kaiser to crack the Saturn version's map format, I'd like it if he could check if Quake's maps are stored in the same format and see if we can't port its exclusive secret stages (replacing the PC version's secret stages like Ziggurat Vertigo et al) back to the PC version. I really wanna try Hell's Aerie, but playing Quake with a controller and without quicksaves is a lot more painful than playing Powerslave under the same conditions.
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Jan 6, 2016 02:16
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Speaking of Kaiser's hard work, a new patch for Turok has been released. Bug fixes, bug additions, re-imported audio, and the return of green blood and exploded bodies. Here's a custom map he's been working on to test/demonstrate the upcoming map editor! 
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Jan 6, 2016 02:21
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Segmentation Fault posted:you can still find Powerslave online if you Muck around on the web or ask the right people Or Google for like 30 seconds. The game is not hidden.
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Jan 6, 2016 02:26
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As long as Turok's come up, I did notice that the enemies with guns tend to shoot a lot faster than I'm used to contemporary FPS enemies with guns shooting at me - usually well in advance of me even noticing they're there; practically the instant they spot me. I've gathered they react faster in the port than they did in the original...?
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Jan 6, 2016 02:27
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That's the impression I got from my very short time with the port, yeah.
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Jan 6, 2016 02:31
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Dominic White posted:Generally speaking, I really like simulationist-leaning stuff, using the expanding capabilities of the engine to make things look more like real space. While a lot of people swear by the more abstract purist style of mapping, I'd much rather see more stuff like Going Down and Hellbound. GD in particular does so much with its concept. Outside of Unloved (which used a hub-based system, I believe) have there been any attempts to make a single multi-floor megadungeon campaign, where you have to frequently travel up and down through the structure? Doom by way of System Shock 1? from what i have played so far, unloved has done it the best. the earliest doom hubs were so short that it felt like they were normal large-ish levels that were cut up just because. Unloved has about the right length for the sealed-off segments. i'd like to see something that takes the progression of metroid prime and apply it in doom. Prime Directive is part of the way there with its high-jump, keys, and the baron powerups secreted throughout the hub. the only thing about Prime Directive is you're fighting mostly space marines and they will turn you from hero to meat pretty quickly with all the hitscanner weapons. having the baron healing power alleviates this but you still have to fight through a bunch of marines to get to the point where you have it. and yeah a big multi-level dungeon campaign thing would be pretty sweet. pretty much anything involving a skyscraper will draw comparisons to Going Down but there is still a wealth of action and adventure to be tapped. i think that Shadowman is working on Inquisitor 3. the first inquisitor was more like a hexen II level and inquisitor 2 was more like the original diablo. considering that he is using more than one map this time, i'm interested in seeing where he takes it. given the way that inq2 played i am pretty much expecting gunpowder / fantasy hub adventure
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Jan 6, 2016 02:37
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Dominic White posted:It's also cool that Kaiser ported Turok (and is still updating it), but I don't think I'll ever buy it because that early wonky era of console FPS's just doesn't do it for me. I must admit that I did really enjoy the XBLA version of Perfect Dark. Turok aged surprisingly well with this new port. Kaiser did a fantastic job and even keeps the forward+strafe speed up so you can jump further if you do the forward+right/left and kind of do bunny hopping. The weapons are fun to use and the slow respawn keeps things interesting while exploring the levels. I wasn't confident about Turok on 2016 but hell, is really fun to play. Also count me as another one that loves Powerslave EX. I never played it back in the days and again, Kaiser nailed the port. I hope Night Dive gets it again.
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Jan 6, 2016 03:37
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Dominic White posted:Generally speaking, I really like simulationist-leaning stuff, using the expanding capabilities of the engine to make things look more like real space. While a lot of people swear by the more abstract purist style of mapping, I'd much rather see more stuff like Going Down and Hellbound. GD in particular does so much with its concept. Outside of Unloved (which used a hub-based system, I believe) have there been any attempts to make a single multi-floor megadungeon campaign, where you have to frequently travel up and down through the structure? Doom by way of System Shock 1? At one point I wanted to make a map set for Mutiny with an intro level followed by a series of Quake II-like hubs, but nothing ever came of it. I had some wild ideas like a hub set in a research station in Alaska where the evil marines were performing experiments on captured demons, and your health would drop around 10 points per minute when you were outdoors due to the cold.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:53
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Woolie Wool posted:At one point I wanted to make a map set for Mutiny with an intro level followed by a series of Quake II-like hubs, but nothing ever came of it. I had some wild ideas like a hub set in a research station in Alaska where the evil marines were performing experiments on captured demons, and your health would drop around 10 points per minute when you were outdoors due to the cold. Reminds me of that Cold As Hell Doom mod. I don't think it had an actual temperature mechanic though.
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Jan 6, 2016 05:51
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The Kins posted:Speaking of Kaiser's hard work, a new patch for Turok has been released. Bug fixes, bug additions, re-imported audio, and the return of green blood and exploded bodies. lol quote:Allow birds and monkeys be killed by particle accelerator because why not?
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Jan 6, 2016 06:56
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That's actually restoring original functionality, believe it or not.
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Jan 6, 2016 07:28
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Dominic White posted:Generally speaking, I really like simulationist-leaning stuff, using the expanding capabilities of the engine to make things look more like real space. While a lot of people swear by the more abstract purist style of mapping, I'd much rather see more stuff like Going Down and Hellbound. GD in particular does so much with its concept. Outside of Unloved (which used a hub-based system, I believe) have there been any attempts to make a single multi-floor megadungeon campaign, where you have to frequently travel up and down through the structure? Doom by way of System Shock 1? Also even though the asking price for Turok was a little steep at first it was defnitely worth the money since the support Nightdive (Kaiser is fully hired by them now isn't he?) are putting into it is really fantastic.
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Jan 6, 2016 11:59
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Jblade posted:My tastes are pretty similar, which is why I'm more forgiving of lower quality maps and unrefined gameplay mechanics - on a pure polish scale Back to Saturn is pretty much objectively superior to stuff like ProDoomer or Serpent Resurection but the latter were far more memorable to me. Back To Saturn X exists in an interesting place for me. It has a real thematic cohesion and pushes the limits of 'vanilla' Doom just far enough to really click for me. The way it pulls stuff together with the hub-maps like the train station and tower gives it a better sense of place, even though the levels are often just 'Here's a weird sci-fi building'. I wish there were more maps like ZDCMP2, now that I think of it. That was a real trip. ProDoomer is something I really appreciate the ambition and creativity of, although I'm still abusing the hell out of quicksaves and every OP weapon power I can find just to survive. It has a certain singular vision behind it, and that vision stretches out infinitely in every direction. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 13:06
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Elliotw2 posted:That's actually restoring original functionality, believe it or not. Zapping a monkey with the PA and waiting for it to explode into glowy radioactive chunky bits never ever gets old.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:52
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Just finished my replay of Doom 2. I'm probably joining a twenty year old argument here, but am I the only one who found the level design to be inferior to Doom 1? It seems like the designers got too excited about what they can try to build (cities!) instead of wondering if those levels would translate to a good player experience. I'm also not a big fan of the Doom II monster editions, largely just because I hate the Pain Elemental guys. Never did find an efficient way to blast them away. I'm thinking of booting up Strain, which if I recall made some great changes to enemy behaviors and had some fun levels to play with. Or I might finally play Pirates Doom, since that's what started this whole retro revival in me.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:28
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Narcissus1916 posted:Just finished my replay of Doom 2. I'm probably joining a twenty year old argument here, but am I the only one who found the level design to be inferior to Doom 1? Stick around for the next few pages to find out!
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Jan 6, 2016 20:31
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I feel like this has been covered in the past, but do mods like Going Down typically set their own options as far as jumping/crouching/aiming are concerned? Or do you have to know what the levels were designed around, and set your own options in GZDoom accordingly? I don't want to be jumping if I'm not supposed to be.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:32
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Narcissus1916 posted:Just finished my replay of Doom 2. I'm probably joining a twenty year old argument here, but am I the only one who found the level design to be inferior to Doom 1? Anyone with a sane mind prefers Doom 1 levels to playing "Hump the Wall and mash Space", which is what finding some of the exits in Doom IIs maps felt like.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:33
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Minidust posted:I feel like this has been covered in the past, but do mods like Going Down typically set their own options as far as jumping/crouching/aiming are concerned? Or do you have to know what the levels were designed around, and set your own options in GZDoom accordingly? I don't want to be jumping if I'm not supposed to be. Generally not, as far as I know. Some authors are kind enough to tell you in the readme, but not always. FWIW Going Down is designed for no crouching, no jumping, and no y-look.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:37
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Mak0rz posted:Generally not, as far as I know. Some authors are kind enough to tell you in the readme, but not always. FWIW Going Down is designed for no crouching, no jumping, and no y-look.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:10
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Lork posted:I think Going Down prevents you from jumping if you try it. So keep in mind that modern wads have that power and it's on them to use it if they don't want you jumping over things. Yeah, there's an option in zdoom/gzdoom that says something to the effect of 'Override WAD jump restriction'. That's totally not the wording, but it's something like that. Also, Going Down is the real Doom 2.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:16
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Doom 2 monsters and weapons improve the game a fair bit but I'm with you on the level design getting pretty sketchy at points.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:19
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I'll just quote myself from earlier:Wamdoodle posted:A lot of the time, jump isn't used unless you're using something off the wall like the Guncaster mod or the Demonsteele mod. Most map makers will usually tell you in the .txt file if you need to enable it because their map requires it. Jumping will usually break maps that are intended to be played "vanilla." I usually keep it off unless the mod requires it. I leave mouse aim on all the time because it's way to ingrained into my playstyle now.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:54
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Most modern wads will force-disable crouching or jumping as appropriate, but there's very little reason not to use free mouse-aim with autoaim disabled. You can do a couple minor things different, like splashing rockets off floors/ceilings, but otherwise it's no big deal.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:00
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Counterpoint: free aim completely changes the game. Play however you want but a lot of wads are designed without free aim in mind.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:07
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Great points everyone, thanks!
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Jan 6, 2016 22:11
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Minidust posted:I feel like this has been covered in the past, but do mods like Going Down typically set their own options as far as jumping/crouching/aiming are concerned? Or do you have to know what the levels were designed around, and set your own options in GZDoom accordingly? I don't want to be jumping if I'm not supposed to be. Look at the readme file. If it's vanilla compabitle/limit removing/boom compatible like 99% of decent wads out there then no. If it was made for zdoom and doesn't explicitly say so, maybe. Narcissus1916 posted:I'm also not a big fan of the Doom II monster editions, largely just because I hate the Pain Elemental guys. Never did find an efficient way to blast them away. koren fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 23:05
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Dumb gzdoom question: does anyone have any idea why the first instance of light/fire particles in any map reduces my framerate to like, five frames per second? This only happens the very first time I make something explode, every subsequent particle effect runs perfectly normally.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:17
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koren posted:There are many ways to neutralise the threat from pain elementals not limited to: stand directly in front of it and deny it the ability to shoot lost souls, stunlock it with the chaingun or break line of sight and shoot it 2-3 times with the super shotgun. Make them your number one priority. Also: Unlike literally every other monster, it infighting with other critters is insanely bad because other monsters never target/kill it while it keeps vomiting lost souls at the target creature, which will then turn their attention to you unless the target successfully aggros them (which will not happen to all souls).
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Jan 6, 2016 23:21
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Dumb gzdoom question: does anyone have any idea why the first instance of light/fire particles in any map reduces my framerate to like, five frames per second? This only happens the very first time I make something explode, every subsequent particle effect runs perfectly normally. Are you using some fancy particle effect replacer? That there's no further slowdown shows that the particles don't cause any problem by themselves once they're in cache, but accessing them in the first place does.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:30
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I really like the ability to 'turn off' a pain elemental by standing in front of it because most WAD authors tend to just put one or two in their nasty encounters, which means you position yourself in such a way to neutralize them while focusing on something more dangerous, or just blast through the elemental. But I really like all the additions to bestiary because of all the additional dynamics they add to combat, so. 
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