|
Mr Enderby posted:Old clove! "The earliest are dated to around 600AD, the time when international maritime trade became increasingly large and well established across Asia, Africa, and Europe." Is this true and if so what am I missing I thought at least in the western Mediterranean trade would have plummeted.
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 11:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:15 |
|
|
As far as I know it got a lot more local and different goods (more basic needs, less luxurious) became the main trading goods, but people didn't forget how to sail ships or make money. Instead of big trading fleets and ships you got more small, private enterprises (and pirates), but all the kingdoms in the former Roman territories still did trade and make money. Long distance trading, especially to the East got more difficult, dangerous and rarer and goods had to change hands far more often to reach their former destinations, which made them far more expensive. (Most of this comes from what I still remember of Europe After Rome by Julia M. H. Smith, very interesting and insightful, but rather dry). Decius fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Jan 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 12:28
|
|
|
At that time the definition of what a trader vs pirate was probably overlapped almost completely.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 17:29
|
|
|
You need to trade the poo poo you loot in order to have any success as a pirate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 19:19
|
|
|
Decius posted:As far as I know it got a lot more local and different goods (more basic needs, less luxurious) became the main trading goods, but people didn't forget how to sail ships or make money. Instead of big trading fleets and ships you got more small, private enterprises (and pirates), but all the kingdoms in the former Roman territories still did trade and make money. Long distance trading, especially to the East got more difficult, dangerous and rarer and goods had to change hands far more often to reach their former destinations, which made them far more expensive.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 20:30
|
|
|
HEY GUNS posted:according to a friend of mine they still used papyrus to write in France until about the 700s. Someone's getting that from somewhere until that time, when they can't any more I don't remember exactly, but if this is southern and not northern france most of the southern coast was controlled by muslims in early 700's. So it would make sense they would be using / trading papyri.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 20:45
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:I don't remember exactly, but if this is southern and not northern france most of the southern coast was controlled by muslims in early 700's. So it would make sense they would be using / trading papyri.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 20:51
|
|
|
Vaginal Vagrant posted:"The earliest are dated to around 600AD, the time when international maritime trade became increasingly large and well established across Asia, Africa, and Europe." Remember the six-hundreds was when the Caliphate got off the ground. This is the period of Sinbad the Sailor. I'm not sure how that effects global total trade volume but I doubt it hurt Indian ocean trade. Even if trade volume into Europe falls off, I expect Europe was only ever the final destination of a small proportion of the total volume of spice produced in southern Asia and Indonesia in this period. I expect if you are a Sri Lankan clove merchant you are much more concerned about events in Medea and Egypt and the Ganges basin than the western Mediterranean.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 21:12
|
|
|
FreudianSlippers posted:You need to trade the poo poo you loot in order to have any success as a pirate. Buying or selling stolen goods in a collapsed empire isnt exactly a tall barrier to climb.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 21:40
|
|
|
LingcodKilla posted:Buying or selling stolen goods in a collapsed empire isnt exactly a tall barrier to climb. I love posts like this, where someone ignores all context to stroke their ego and explain simple concepts to someone else
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 22:29
|
|
|
Senor Dog posted:I love posts like this, where someone ignores all context to stroke their ego and explain simple concepts to someone else Unlike his. Wait how the heck is my sayin collapsed empire ignoring context? Crab Dad fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jan 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2019 23:29
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:I don't remember exactly, but if this is southern and not northern france most of the southern coast was controlled by muslims in early 700's. So it would make sense they would be using / trading papyri. Muslim control of southern France (Septimania) lasted like 10 years, from 721 to 731. I don't think you can attribute long standing literary practices to that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 04:21
|
|
|
A papyrus fact I find really curious is that by the 19th century, the papyrus plant was effectively extinct in Egypt, with botanists only able to find one or two isolated stands. What happened that made it disappear? I'm pretty sure it continued to be used in the Eastern Mediterranean alongside parchment until paper making spread to the Middle East in the high Middle Ages, but I can't find anything on what may have happened to cause the species's decline.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 05:26
|
|
|
everything went downhill after they turned their backs on horus
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 05:40
|
|
|
So far as I know, states may rise and fall and various peoples will spread and immigrate, but the same ol' populations living by the sea trading on boats will still be there after whatever governing body gets replaced. Hell, they could even hop on a boat to lay low while the fighting's going on and come back after the flags have been swapped out. Were there any significant cases of medieval leaders cracking down specifically on merchants?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 07:19
|
|
|
Mongols
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 07:22
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Were there any significant cases of medieval leaders cracking down specifically on merchants? You mean aside from the various merchant republics fighting with each other? (Genoa vs Venice, etc)
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 07:36
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:So far as I know, states may rise and fall and various peoples will spread and immigrate, but the same ol' populations living by the sea trading on boats will still be there after whatever governing body gets replaced. Hell, they could even hop on a boat to lay low while the fighting's going on and come back after the flags have been swapped out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Latins Family Values posted:Muslim control of southern France (Septimania) lasted like 10 years, from 721 to 731. I don't think you can attribute long standing literary practices to that. This is very true, my statement was made because I am not sure of how widespread or when exactly the documents were found. My initial thought from the statement was they found a few papyri items in the 700's, instead of widespread use in Merovingian Francia. In pure conjecture it could be that Muslims were perfectly welcome in trading with the Franks prior to the 700's as there weren't really any reason for the Franks to be necessarily opposed to trading with them, and papyri was a trade good. However with the Conquest of Hispania and the muslims pushing into France this could have lead to the breaking of the trade network that kept Papyri supplied to Merovingian Francia. As a result the Franks turned to other alternative goods and there was no need to trade for papyri finding domestic parchment or whatever they happened to be using sufficient for their writing needs. So traders operating in Egypt just stopped trading for it eventually as there was no market. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Jan 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 07:42
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:So far as I know, states may rise and fall and various peoples will spread and immigrate, but the same ol' populations living by the sea trading on boats will still be there after whatever governing body gets replaced. Hell, they could even hop on a boat to lay low while the fighting's going on and come back after the flags have been swapped out. Confucianism hates merchants (for “profiting off the efforts of others and contributing nothing by themselves”) so you have various degrees of cracking down on them in East Asia as ideology vs political reality dictated. Most notably when Ming China implemented the sea ban, in an apparent effort to combat piracy, preventing literally all private shipping and so forcing all those merchants to turn to piracy to survive. At various points there were other crackdowns too (some less ill thought out), and through its first half especially (until reality after its devastation in wars started to necessitate internal trade) Joseon Korea had them in an particularly low position. After about 1000, most sanctioned international trade between China and its neighbors would be via state tribute missions though, so they were generally a smaller class to begin with, although there was always still smugglers and stuff, often in significant numbers. Koramei fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jan 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 15:47
|
|
|
Family Values posted:Muslim control of southern France (Septimania) lasted like 10 years, from 721 to 731. I don't think you can attribute long standing literary practices to that. In 889 a group of Arab freebooters from Andalusia set up a fortified base in Fraxinet, in Provence. They raided the surrounding area and then followed the Rhone valley into the border areas between France and Piedmont, setting up fortified bandit lairs along the way. Their raids reached as far as Switzerland. The Fraxinet muslims ruled this area for close to a century, raiding the surrounding states, launching piratical attacks on Byzantine shipping and levying tolls on travelers using the Alpine passes, until they were defeated and conquered in 975 by the count of Provence. They were however allowed to live and remain in the area as the count's subjects, and continue their trading and manufacturing activities.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 15:50
|
|
|
You know what I'd like to know that we're never going to know? I'd like to know just what happened to Romulus Augustulus. We know that after he was deposed, Odoacer gave him a pension and he went to live in Naples, probably in the Castel dell'Ovo, but after that, he pretty much disappears from history.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 21:00
|
|
|
It’d be neat to know what he would have thought about his legacy as “THE LAST ROMAN (not really)”
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 21:17
|
|
|
i mean if we're raising these people from the dead let's have a beer with cleopatra
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 21:36
|
|
|
She's probably fun to get drunk with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 21:59
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:She's probably fun to get drunk with. gotta keep all of the snakes locked up tight tho
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 22:50
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:gotta keep all of the snakes locked up tight tho
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 22:51
|
|
|
HEY GUNS posted:my anaconda don't tappin dat asp
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2019 23:02
|
|
|
I like how this thread veers from thoughtful, enlightening discussions to dicks and mad rutting. The Romans would be proud 
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2019 20:49
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:tappin dat asp 🐍🐍🐍  🐍🐍🐍
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2019 20:56
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2019 16:49
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:tappin dat asp HEY GUNS posted:🐍🐍🐍 lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2019 16:50
|
|
|
I want to mention again that Roman paganism was not one static unchanging thing that lasted until Christianity immediately replaced it. It was dynamic and ever changing and subject to all sorts of fads and politics and stuck around for a very long time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2019 19:40
|
|
|
Shouldn’t the chick be a young dude?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2019 19:52
|
|
|
Something something empire of the Greeks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 01:06
|
|
|
Vaginal Vagrant posted:Something something empire of the Greeks. and vice versa
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 02:09
|
|
|
More like empire of the geeks!
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 02:21
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/mikeduncan/status/1088137820106035201
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 02:53
|
|
|
HEY GUNS posted:chicks that look like dudes that look like chicks elagabaldobolina
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 09:20
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:elagabaldobolina Bowseleagabalus
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 14:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:15 |
|
|
Watched this cool little video about garum and its different types, I had no idea there was a kosher one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLDlUGXJMFY Not sure how the channel is as a whole, I watched a few of the military logistics ones and they seemed pretty in line with what I know.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2019 23:19
|
|
