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I'm not sure why scanlines in art are a thing because I don't remember any old games ever looking like that. Was it a really specific piece of hardware? e: the anime girl ones look real rad tho
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May 2, 2015 14:00
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Yodzilla posted:I'm not sure why scanlines in art are a thing because I don't remember any old games ever looking like that. Was it a really specific piece of hardware? The PC-8801 had a graphics mode that used tall pixels for high resolution colour graphics. It looks really ugly sometimes, so some emulators and stuff render normal pixels, but spaced apart with a "scanline". So it's not really so much a scanline as space that the graphics hardware can't use. Noyemi K fucked around with this message at 14:19 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 14:17
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Yodzilla posted:I'm not sure why scanlines in art are a thing because I don't remember any old games ever looking like that. Was it a really specific piece of hardware? First one of mine was going on a screen in game so I made fake scanlines. Otherwise I don't bother with em
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May 2, 2015 14:27
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Yodzilla posted:I'm not sure why scanlines in art are a thing because I don't remember any old games ever looking like that. Was it a really specific piece of hardware?
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May 2, 2015 17:02
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I've been checking this thread from time to time at work, when I've got a game dev itch and can't be on #sagamedev, and let me say, I'm always impressed by the sickening amount of talent there is on SA. I've been thinking about trying my hand at pixel art, but I've never really been any good at any kind of visual arts. Am I better off starting with a more "traditional" foundation? Like a drawing class or something? Also, any recommendations for a halfway-decent iOS app that I can gently caress around in until I decide how badly I want to pursue learning pixel art?
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May 3, 2015 03:07
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MockingQuantum posted:Am I better off starting with a more "traditional" foundation? Like a drawing class or something? Yes, it will benefit you in a thousand ways that picking up pixeling tricks won't, and you'll be a better pixel artist for it. The two are not mutually exclusive to learn!
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May 3, 2015 03:33
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Oh yeah, and I don't have to just do anime-ish stuff, I've been asked to do all kinds of crap (final version will be animated...!):
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May 3, 2015 09:18
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Yodzilla posted:I'm not sure why scanlines in art are a thing because I don't remember any old games ever looking like that. Was it a really specific piece of hardware? Scanlines are a monitor artifact, not a render artifact. They were on all TV-style CRTs. It's just that later CRTs brought them down to near-invisible and then retro art overemphasised them. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:28 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 09:22
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MockingQuantum posted:I've been checking this thread from time to time at work, when I've got a game dev itch and can't be on #sagamedev, and let me say, I'm always impressed by the sickening amount of talent there is on SA. I've been thinking about trying my hand at pixel art, but I've never really been any good at any kind of visual arts. Am I better off starting with a more "traditional" foundation? Like a drawing class or something? Pixel art is easier because you don't need to have great technical skill (like a steady hand etc), but it won't let you draw any better than you can in other media, or get away with not knowing any of the other fundamentals.
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May 3, 2015 10:54
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Yeah I can definitely vouch for that. My drawing skills are middling at best. Give me a limited number of pixels to work with and I can trial-and-error my way to a passable sprite, but what I could do in 12 hours a better artist could put together in 2, and it would look better to boot.
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May 3, 2015 11:06
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MockingQuantum posted:but I've never really been any good at any kind of visual arts. Pixel art is just another medium. The thing about mediums is that there is going to be a learning curve for using the material/medium and then there is some shared stuff, color, light, line, shape, perspective, composition, etc that are common across different mediums. Some of these things are usually easier to learn in drawing than they are in pixel art where the tools you have to work with are different. But not necessarily others, color in fact should be relatively easy to learn in pixels compared to say watercolor. That said you could learn these things with pixels and if you have no desire to do anything but pixels then you should just stick with pixel art. Scour the web for tutorials on pixel art and those pertaining to color, light, etc for all artists. Also look at pixel art that is similar to what you want to create and try to figure out how they achieve the effect that they got. Hell, you can even send the artist an email for advice, if you are polite you can get a lot of good information that way. That said, if you think, you'd like to learn to draw as well and just worry that you aren't gonna be any good then just do it anyways. Learn stuff, then practice it, and you can get good at any art really over a period of time. That's all there is to it. JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 16:55 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 16:53
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Sunday hourglasses! Nothing too special just emulating a technique I saw in an Amiga game.  
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May 3, 2015 20:30
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Exclamation Marx posted:Pixel art is easier because you don't need to have great technical skill (like a steady hand etc), but it won't let you draw any better than you can in other media, or get away with not knowing any of the other fundamentals. Sprite art is, to a certain extent, a skill of its own, regardless of what medium you happen to be using. My own drawing education has been largely focused on relatively large-sized portraits/landscape drawings/etc., so figuring out how to shrink them down while still preserving key points of detail is challenging. Anyways, as far as learning how to do pixel arts goes, definitely start with a traditional background. Even if you're just miniaturizing a person using pixels, you need to know how to actually construct a body to look three-dimensional (which is especially important at lower definitions), how light reflects off of surfaces, how to show texture, etc. The Self-Taught Thread has some useful points to start out with. As I do whenever this comes up, I recommend Stan Prokopenko's videos. Start here with the drawing basics, and then look around the rest of his Youtube page for information on things like the head and the figure. Note that you don't need any of the fancy supplies he recommends. I started out, quite literally, with a Halloween-themed HB pencil that I pulled out of the drawer and a bunch of cheap sheets of paper I got in a big stack at the local Staples for something like $10. It may look a bit daunting, but it's honestly a fairly simple process once you start digging into it. The most critical thing to grasp is really just the basic geometric forms and learning how to think three-dimensionally when drawing. Everything else will flow naturally from that. (And while it may be somewhat cliche: no one is good at drawing when they first begin. I have always been poo poo at the visual arts and only took up drawing "seriously" two years ago, and I'm now at a fairly comfortable level of competence. I drew a portrait of my mother for her birthday just last month, something which I never could have conceived of two years back. It takes time and patience, but you will get results if you put the effort into it.) Vermain fucked around with this message at 16:59 on May 4, 2015 |
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May 4, 2015 16:48
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Noyemi K posted:The PC-8801 had a graphics mode that used tall pixels for high resolution colour graphics. It looks really ugly sometimes, so some emulators and stuff render normal pixels, but spaced apart with a "scanline". So it's not really so much a scanline as space that the graphics hardware can't use.  Do you have pictures of this "tall pixels" thing?
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May 4, 2015 18:30
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a hole-y ghost posted:That sounds interesting but I couldn't find any examples of what it looks like. In fact, when I tried to google it I just came up with your art Googling around I'm seeing a lot of things from that system in 640x400. Were they rendered in 4:3? That'd give you 'tall pixels'.
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May 4, 2015 18:36
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a hole-y ghost posted:That sounds interesting but I couldn't find any examples of what it looks like. In fact, when I tried to google it I just came up with your art If you look at pictures way back from old Atari systems you'll see they had WIDE pixels (2x1), tall pixels would basically be the same idea but with the orientation reversed. The main point is to save on processing power while still filling the screen, since you need half as many draw operations to fill the space than you would with square pixels. This is an example of wide pixels. It's not actually an authentic image from an Atari system, obviously, but you get the idea.
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May 5, 2015 00:41
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Ah yeah, gotcha.
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May 5, 2015 00:49
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a hole-y ghost posted:That sounds interesting but I couldn't find any examples of what it looks like. In fact, when I tried to google it I just came up with your art My avatar with tall pixels:  For actual examples from the era, look at Can-Can Bunny (slight NSFW) for making it blatantly obvious.
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May 5, 2015 02:39
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Noyemi K posted:Did somebody say scanlines? They're all good, but for some reason I like the second one the best. (Her expression's awesome) Something about the pure primary colors and scanlines make a great aesthetic.
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May 6, 2015 13:45
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Pik posted:They're all good, but for some reason I like the second one the best. (Her expression's awesome) Something about the pure primary colors and scanlines make a great aesthetic. Do programming tricks count? I've gone on about this before in some other places, but I can have individual colour channels switch on between dissolving in for a true PC-88 automatic dither-dissolve effect. Trying things out with the "tech" at this point is becoming a lot of fun and makes me want to take this game places.
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May 6, 2015 13:49
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Noyemi K posted:Do programming tricks count? I've gone on about this before in some other places, but I can have individual colour channels switch on between dissolving in for a true PC-88 automatic dither-dissolve effect. Trying things out with the "tech" at this point is becoming a lot of fun and makes me want to take this game places. I dig it. I love programming tricks in conjunction with pixel art. Low res non-filtered vector stuff looks rad too.
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May 6, 2015 14:03
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Noyemi K posted:Do programming tricks count? I've gone on about this before in some other places, but I can have individual colour channels switch on between dissolving in for a true PC-88 automatic dither-dissolve effect. Trying things out with the "tech" at this point is becoming a lot of fun and makes me want to take this game places. Yup, that dissolving dithering effect works like a charm. I don't know much about PC-99 limitations myself but it looks hella neat
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May 6, 2015 14:07
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 I made a shooty  Mostly concerned if I did the legs and shading right.
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May 10, 2015 18:23
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MONKET posted:
Shape-wise, the leg on the right widens towards the ankle, which is the opposite of the other leg. So unless he's wearing some funky pants, that's a bit odd. On the chest, the zipper line seems like it's a bit too far to the left, as if the chest it mostly facing the camera. But then the legs don't agree with that perspective. I'd move the zipper line a couple pixels to the right and have him facing forwards.
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May 10, 2015 20:58
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Dumping some stuff, not to happy with those grids of brick on the left side of the building but there you go. Been working on lighting and just general flavor lately  
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May 10, 2015 22:42
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Shoehead posted:Dumping some stuff, not to happy with those grids of brick on the left side of the building but there you go. I'm surprised you didn't alternate them like you did the bricks on the front.
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May 11, 2015 01:11
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Besesoth posted:I'm surprised you didn't alternate them like you did the bricks on the front. Was trying that earlier to see how it'd look. Switched the seams between the bricks to the darker grey as well:  I really dig how clean it looks. I've been trying to do cleaner stuff but I kinda get carried away with trying to find nice effects with colors so I can end up zooming out and realising that everything is now a shade of complementary grey. 
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May 11, 2015 01:42
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Reminds me a little of Blackthorne. Do a 'tuck back into the wall' cover animation next! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WafqCyIwAWw
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May 11, 2015 01:56
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 Improved shading and shape I think. Scut posted:Reminds me a little of Blackthorne. Do a 'tuck back into the wall' cover animation next! Thanks! That game's actually one of my inspirations for spriting. I hope one day I get to make a crouch animation that smooth.
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May 11, 2015 05:39
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Besesoth posted:I'm surprised you didn't alternate them like you did the bricks on the front. Gnap! posted:Was trying that earlier to see how it'd look. Switched the seams between the bricks to the darker grey as well:  I hadn't even noticed! Some more stuff from this morning. I decided to stop cheating with opacity and just bake in my lighting effects
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May 11, 2015 12:24
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A very interesting article! (follow the links too) http://www.dinofarmgames.com/a-pixel-artist-renounces-pixel-art/
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May 12, 2015 22:45
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I think his reasons for migrating to a different medium are fine. One irony is that he keeps showing examples of wonderful pixel art that stand up to scrutiny long after they were made. I think one aspect of his argument is the hassles of developing a pipeline for mobile and that makes sense. The thing is that pixel art was once the status quo, like calligraphy. As it becomes more and more niche, it takes on a different value. Someone who can execute beautiful hand lettering can deliver a novelty that impresses us today, even though a laser printer is faster and more accurate. The two mediums can be prized for totally different reasons. One reason I enjoy making pixel art is that as I get better at it, I have another skill in my toolset that differentiates me. I get a kick out of well executed pixel art, and it has a /qualitative/ difference that I enjoy, the same way that I get a kick out of the qualitative difference that I get from pen and ink on paper. I do feel as though there is too much nostalgia driving the hardcore pixel art scene. I appreciate the reverence for history but I feel like another generation or two needs to pass before it can fall into a more comfortable stride that isn't plagued with buzzwords and 
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May 13, 2015 00:15
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I think his point is that not even the most mindblowing pixel art (that stands up to your scrutiny) will elicit the impressed reaction from the audience that it, in his eyes and perhaps in ours, deserves. Or forget even impressed—satisfied!
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May 13, 2015 00:55
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Yeah but an app store is like the pinnacle of lowest common denominator. His reasons make perfectly good business sense for someone who is on a mission to broaden the niche they appeal to. I think from an artistic standpoint he's taking a bit of a wrong turn because he's putting too much weight into the feedback of people lacking discernment. I grumble a little too when people use the term 'retro', but ultimately I understand it's a shorthand for layman and therefore it's okay. They aren't using it as a negative, they're just attempting to apply labels that they have within easy reach. I think a big hurdle is that pixel art is inexorably tied in with games, and games are so completely tied in with business. Legitimizing an artform within those realms is incredibly difficult when the loudest voices in the room tend to be buyers and sellers while creators and audiences are not brought into the fold unless they start talking about their relationship to money. Before I ramble too far, I'm well aware that art and commerce are always intertwined but I think most other mediums have a more accepted status as being legitimate and appreciated (and mastered!) even when there is no profit motive. Also I love getting paid to make pixel art.
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May 13, 2015 01:26
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wayfinder posted:A very interesting article! (follow the links too) Originally pixel art was specifically designed for the displays of the time, accounting for magnified resolutions, pixel ratios, composite colors, palettes, dithering, etc, so it would look as intended. These days displays come in all kinds of crystal-clear shapes and sizes, designed for high-resolution art that gracefully degrades. But pixel art doesn't, it only works when displayed exactly as designed. So just slapping your pixel art as-is on a game can end up looking really ugly. On desktop at most you get the choice between "tiny window on a huge screen" or "super huge blown-up pixels HD". On mobile you don't even get that, so you risk seeing non-integer scaling, antialiasing, blurring, or even the dreaded stretching to fill the display. This feeds into the perception that pixel art is kinda ugly, because games are rarely built to ensure it's always displayed exactly as designed.
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May 13, 2015 10:20
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also, Auro, to me, seems created at just a high-enough resolution that it feels "pixelated" rather than "pixel art." Especially in the interface elements.
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May 14, 2015 00:05
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I think the reason why it falls so flat for me is that, for example, it's doing dithering on nearly everything, but because it's dithering with huge pixels and huge gaps, it looks wrong. There's no way that dithering's going to actually show you a different shade like it's meant to, you're just gonna see the pattern itself.
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May 14, 2015 13:23
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a hole-y ghost posted:also, Auro, to me, seems created at just a high-enough resolution that it feels "pixelated" rather than "pixel art." Especially in the interface elements. Yeah it's trying so hard to not be pixel art that they might as well not bother. Those gradients on the interface..The whole game looks like a confused, noisy mess. Anyway, I made a bunch of weapon parts for Starbound. So the head and the handles are seperate assets that are then randomly assembled from the parts, it's pretty neat. They can also be a whole bunch of different colours in the code.  
Kernel Monsoon fucked around with this message at 20:37 on May 14, 2015 |
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May 14, 2015 20:30
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Looks like you guys have finally given up making melee weapons on that weird 4-pixel slant. I'm glad for it, that was a pain to work with. I appreciate the lengths you're going to to make generated weapons distinct, but are you planning to tie their parts/colors in with their abilities too, like you did with monsters, or is it purely cosmetic?
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May 14, 2015 23:13
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 My base is now officially spiraling out of control.
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May 17, 2015 19:19
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