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Milo and POTUS posted:That human civilization ran into the neanderthals in the levant and were violently subsumed by their culture and it forever corrupted our behavior. It was weird and unlikely but also intriguing. I don't think there's any evidence of it from any anthropologist I've ever heard of. It was in PYF I'm pretty sure just not this thread (that I've found). That has a whooooole lot of assumptions built into it.
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Sep 26, 2020 15:53
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Milo and POTUS posted:That human civilization ran into the neanderthals in the levant and were violently subsumed by their culture and it forever corrupted our behavior. It was weird and unlikely but also intriguing. Aesop Poprock posted:Rogan and Joey Diaz have stories about it from like the 70s that show how different it was then
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Sep 26, 2020 16:11
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Humans almost definitely did interbreed with other closely related species at multiple points, but anything about it "corrupting our behavior" is some evopsych nonsense.
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Sep 26, 2020 17:05
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double post
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Sep 26, 2020 17:06
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showbiz_liz posted:Humans almost definitely did interbreed with other closely related species at multiple points, but anything about it "corrupting our behavior" is some evopsych nonsense. Yeah, even if that somehow did happen (the behavioural change bit), it's impossible to prove or disprove, which is true for most links between culture and biology that evopsych adepts love to go on and on about. I mean, sure, increases in testosterone make a human being more prone to risky behaviour and aggression, but that doesn't mean all risk-takers and aggressive human beings do this because of increased testosterone levels.
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Sep 26, 2020 17:28
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showbiz_liz posted:Humans almost definitely did interbreed with other closely related species at multiple points, but anything about it "corrupting our behavior" is some evopsych nonsense. Seems pretty easy to disprove, too. Some homo sapiens stayed in africa and didn't interact with other near-human species hardly at all. So we ought to be able to look at their history and see what 'uncorrupted' human behavior looks like. I'm no expert on world history, but it seems like pre-colonial african history isn't a lot better nor worse than the rest.
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Sep 26, 2020 17:31
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What about that devilish Neanderthal rock music? My son Orgorg was pitch-grunting some of that yesterday. The language! I told him he was going straight to his cavern, and no mammoth for dinner.
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Sep 26, 2020 18:17
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Brawnfire posted:What about that devilish Neanderthal rock music? My son Orgorg was pitch-grunting some of that yesterday. The language! I told him he was going straight to his cavern, and no mammoth for dinner. Of your cooking? More like a mastodon't.
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Sep 26, 2020 18:20
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Fatty Crabcakes posted:It's pure hokum. I know. I just wanted to remember which thread it was in
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Sep 26, 2020 19:20
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Facebook Aunt posted:Seems pretty easy to disprove, too. Some homo sapiens stayed in africa and didn't interact with other near-human species hardly at all. So we ought to be able to look at their history and see what 'uncorrupted' human behavior looks like. I'm no expert on world history, but it seems like pre-colonial african history isn't a lot better nor worse than the rest.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:05
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I seem to remember the opposite take from a sociology class: Neanderthals were the source of sympathetic traits like complex storytelling and burying the dead, whereas early humans were kind of psychopathic. Whether that was from a textbook or a woo-woo lecturer though I can't recall.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:39
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Rochallor posted:I seem to remember the opposite take from a sociology class: Neanderthals were the source of sympathetic traits like complex storytelling and burying the dead, whereas early humans were kind of psychopathic. Whether that was from a textbook or a woo-woo lecturer though I can't recall. Im fairly certain thats not mainstream. There are still debates about how much abstract thinking neanderthals were capable of, let alone language. I also have never heard them as being the source of anything tbh, but I may be uninformed about that.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:46
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All's I know is that if loads of people are horny for elves and turians and werewolves and twi'leks, no way in hell we weren't loving neanderthals.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:49
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:All's I know is that if loads of people are horny for elves and turians and werewolves and twi'leks, no way in hell we weren't loving neanderthals. Also a couple hominids we don't know anything about other than we hosed them.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:59
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:All's I know is that if loads of people are horny for elves and turians and werewolves and twi'leks, no way in hell we weren't loving neanderthals.
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Sep 27, 2020 00:13
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Rochallor posted:I seem to remember the opposite take from a sociology class: Neanderthals were the source of sympathetic traits like complex storytelling and burying the dead, whereas early humans were kind of psychopathic. Whether that was from a textbook or a woo-woo lecturer though I can't recall. I’m guessing our behavior couldn’t have been that different if we started loving
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Sep 27, 2020 00:44
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Rochallor posted:I seem to remember the opposite take from a sociology class: Neanderthals were the source of sympathetic traits like complex storytelling and burying the dead, whereas early humans were kind of psychopathic. Whether that was from a textbook or a woo-woo lecturer though I can't recall. What's the implication of that for those humans who didn't mix with Neanderthals? I think all this has to be eyeballed very closely because it feels like a way of separating one human group from another.
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Sep 27, 2020 01:42
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I think some of this may actually have been the premise of The Neanderthal Parallax series of science fiction novels.
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Sep 27, 2020 04:01
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HopperUK posted:What's the implication of that for those humans who didn't mix with Neanderthals? I think all this has to be eyeballed very closely because it feels like a way of separating one human group from another. Yeah, I feel like thats a big part of it. This also somewhat comes up with non-human/non-hominid intelligence and tool use in other species.
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Sep 27, 2020 04:13
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HopperUK posted:What's the implication of that for those humans who didn't mix with Neanderthals? I think all this has to be eyeballed very closely because it feels like a way of separating one human group from another. Over time they probably homogenized anyway
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Sep 27, 2020 04:17
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Listening to the new Casefile episode and screaming
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Sep 27, 2020 05:22
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Piss Meridian posted:Listening to the new Casefile episode and screaming Been meaning to listen to that, it must mention the film Compliance?
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Sep 27, 2020 05:44
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HopperUK posted:What's the implication of that for those humans who didn't mix with Neanderthals? I think all this has to be eyeballed very closely because it feels like a way of separating one human group from another. Apparently I was taught/remembered wrong so it's a moot point anyway, but it was cultural and not genetic. This was Sociology after all.
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Sep 27, 2020 05:45
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Has there been any mitochondrial DNA of Neanderthals found in humans? Wouldn't that have some implications?
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Sep 27, 2020 10:34
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Alterian posted:Has there been any mitochondrial DNA of Neanderthals found in humans? Wouldn't that have some implications? I thought there had been regular degular neaderthal dna found in humans. It's not my primary source, but 23 and me seems to think so.
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Sep 27, 2020 16:49
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Alterian posted:Has there been any mitochondrial DNA of Neanderthals found in humans? Wouldn't that have some implications? The initial identifiable 1/2 and 1/4 hybrids had to be accepted into the human groups in order for them to continue breeding with pure humans and be our ancestors. That implies an ongoing relationship of some type, not just violent raids. It's certainly possible that tribes were keeping the other species women as captives, slaves, livestock, or pets. But it's also possible there was just normal inter-tribal relations between human and near-human tribes.
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Sep 27, 2020 17:02
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I’ve been the caregiver for my best friend for the last decade, and the last few years he’s developed dementia related to multiple traumatic brain injuries. It’s hosed up on a personal level to witness how much a biological process can destroy a person’s sense of self by erasing the internal narrative we all rely on to know Who We Are, and how often someone can vacillate between horror/fear at what they’re becoming, and being completely unaware that anything is the matter. This is a brief psychological essay on artist William Untermohlen’s record of his advancing Alzheimer’s, which is most starkly shown in his portraits. As time progressed, his sense of proportion and perspective went out the window, and while he does include some symbolism that hints he was aware of the changes (as the essay notes, a pair of simple geometric shapes alluding to the constant ability tests he underwent, and a saw that could relate to a recent conversation with his doctor where he learned that he couldn’t get a full diagnosis until his autopsy), it’s impossible to know if he was fully or always aware that his art was changing. It gives me a full existential crisis any time I dwell on the idea of memory and perception having fatal errors.
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Sep 28, 2020 05:56
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Facebook Aunt posted:The initial identifiable 1/2 and 1/4 hybrids had to be accepted into the human groups in order for them to continue breeding with pure humans and be our ancestors. That implies an ongoing relationship of some type, not just violent raids. I didn't mean violent raids! Sorry for the misunderstanding. My small understanding of genetics is that mitochondrial dna only comes from the mother. It's present in the egg cell. They've been able to trace back the mutations of mitochondrial dna all the way back to a "mitochondrial eve" which would be the female all other humans descended from. Since it can ONLY come from the mother, if there was viable mother-Neanderthal father-Human children, wouldn't there be evidence of that in modern human mitochondria?
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Sep 28, 2020 11:31
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Murder of Sylvia Likens A book youtube person asked on twitter about the most disturbing thing they'd ever read and they were pointed to The Girl Next Door by by Jack Ketchum and I read about the murder that inspired it and it's a tour of some of the worst things I've ever read. quote:"There was practically no fat on [Sylvia's] body. She hadn't eaten for a week! We'll never know the pain and suffering that Sylvia endured ... the best evidence of that was the picture of her lips—lips that were bitten into shreds!" I'm still sick to my stomach, this was more than I was prepared to look at today
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Sep 28, 2020 16:39
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Alterian posted:I didn't mean violent raids! Sorry for the misunderstanding. Oh, sorry, "implications" always makes me think the worst, lol. So an unbroken maternal linage could have neanderthal mitochondrial dna. Likewise a dude from an unbroken paternal linage could be rocking a neanderthal Y chromosome. I haven't heard of anything like that being found. But it could be that no one has bothered looking either.
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Sep 28, 2020 18:17
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StrixNebulosa posted:Murder of Sylvia Likens gently caress those neighbors that never said anything even though they witnessed the abuse. Jesus people are monsters.
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Sep 28, 2020 18:25
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Scathach posted:gently caress those neighbors that never said anything even though they witnessed the abuse. Jesus people are monsters. And gently caress the parole board for letting every single one of them out early even though they never expressed any remorse for their crimes or even admitted any responsibility. The only people in that whole saga who are worthy of anything other than complete loving contempt are the Likens family.
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Sep 28, 2020 19:22
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How does the 'mitochondrial eve' work anyways? Surely its not saying that we as a species got to such a bottleneck. Is it more like 'this is dna thats survived throughout all of history'?
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Sep 28, 2020 19:55
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:How does the 'mitochondrial eve' work anyways? Surely its not saying that we as a species got to such a bottleneck. Is it more like 'this is dna thats survived throughout all of history'? Nah, it's just a silly phrase for the most recent common ancestor of humans. By definition, there's always going to be one.
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Sep 28, 2020 20:22
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:How does the 'mitochondrial eve' work anyways? Surely its not saying that we as a species got to such a bottleneck. Is it more like 'this is dna thats survived throughout all of history'? Like Tobermory said, it refers to the most common (matrilineal) human ancestor. Therefore it doesn't refer to a specific fixed person in time, nor does it refer to a bottleneck (human population at its lowest was still a 5-digit number).
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Sep 28, 2020 20:36
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Same deal with y-chromosomal Adam, most recent common ancestor from whom all living males are descended from patrilineally. There was something in 2014 that suggested he might have been roughly contemporaneous with Eve but I’ve also seen that contradicted elsewhere and it’s not as though it would have to be true in any event
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Sep 28, 2020 20:58
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Facebook Aunt posted:
Or their men. 
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Sep 28, 2020 21:04
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My god.
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Sep 29, 2020 18:52
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Hello future Casefile episode: https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/1310767393577340930
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Sep 29, 2020 19:05
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Sep 29, 2020 19:32
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