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Even if the HOA only spent its money on maintaining the grounds and any share facilities, I still don't want it. When I was houseshopping I had to exclude a good half of the listings because they were in HOA areas. I don't want to pay an extra $50-$300 ( ) per month on fees on top of my mortgage! When I go on walks about my neighborhood, the HOA areas always look incredibly sterile. All the houses are the same color, with tiny-rear end yards of perfectly-mown grass and carefully-clipped shrubs. Seeing one house that's that well kept, in isolation, is nice. Seeing an entire development that looks like that is creepy. Non-HOA areas are much more interesting because you get individuals applying their own ideas of what looks nice (or not bothering and having a weed-filled or dirt yard), and no two houses look alike.
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Jul 25, 2014 20:12
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Whenever you do any landscaping or permanent structure (like a decorative landscaping wall), you must apply for a permit from the HOA's architecture committee. My HOA's architecture committee is one dude, with no professional experience or certification in anything close to architecture. He's a software developer or something. You must submit detailed plans and sketches of whatever you're doing, and he trolls the neighborhood on Saturday mornings looking for people digging holes without the proper permits. He will nag you about the aesthetics of whatever you're doing, which boils down to "Does this look exactly like something someone else already has in their yard? Y/N" Do you have the minimum of 5 plants in the front yard? Do 3 of your 5 plants meet the minimum size requirements? I have a huge hateboner for HOAs, if you couldn't tell
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Jul 25, 2014 21:15
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When I was installing interior shutters, (sometimes called plantation shutters), we were doing a whole house. A couple walked up, and without identifying themselves in any manner, asked us what the color of paint was called that the shutters were. "Off-white" we told them. This is a nice, soft white that closely matches the "Swiss Coffee" paint that a lot of people use for trim. We began bringing everything into the house, and suddenly 5 or 6 HOA folks (including the couple) swarm up and tell us to stop installing. We basically told them that they weren't the ones paying us, so they ran inside to bitch at the homeowner. Apparently, the HOA rules were that the "outside facing surface of all window coverings must be WHITE" and because our paint was called 'off-white', it wasn't allowed.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:22
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Every time I hear about HOAs I wonder why the people who hate them don't just steal the idea and run with it. Bugger what colour your house is, I reckon a bylaw asking for at least one project vehicle in the backyard and 15 minutes of power tool use per day minimum sounds like a great place to live.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:25
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bend posted:Every time I hear about HOAs I wonder why the people who hate them don't just steal the idea and run with it. Bugger what colour your house is, I reckon a bylaw asking for at least one project vehicle in the backyard and 15 minutes of power tool use per day minimum sounds like a great place to live. A big part of the problem with HOAs is that they're controlled by the people who live in the development who can be arsed to show up to meetings and get elected and so on. And those people tend to be the control freaks, because everyone else quite reasonably just wants to get on with their lives and doesn't have the time to put up with the crap you need to do to get elected.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:28
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I'm considering attending some of those meetings to see what goes on. I was treasurer at a condo association for 8 years, not that it will mean poo poo to them but who knows.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:29
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On the topic of HOA's. are there actually municipality laws that allow that? How can a neighborhood force you to sign up and pay if you buy a house there? I'd just be like "no, not signing up, sorry." It's not like they have anything to do with bank or mortgage when you buy.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:32
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Jerk McJerkface posted:On the topic of HOA's. are there actually municipality laws that allow that? How can a neighborhood force you to sign up and pay if you buy a house there? I'd just be like "no, not signing up, sorry." It's not like they have anything to do with bank or mortgage when you buy. When the house is initially built and sold, part of the contract (written up by the developer who decides to set up an HOA in the first place) requires the buyer to a) enter the HOA, and b) require any future buyer to also enter the HOA. Thus ownership of a house automatically means involvement in the HOA. At least, I think that's how it works. I'm sure there's reams of legal text on the matter. You can bet there's no straightforward way to buy a house in an HOA-controlled development without tangling with the HOA though. Any trivial loopholes will have been closed.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:39
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Jerk McJerkface posted:On the topic of HOA's. are there actually municipality laws that allow that? How can a neighborhood force you to sign up and pay if you buy a house there? I'd just be like "no, not signing up, sorry." It's not like they have anything to do with bank or mortgage when you buy. Irrevocable title encumbrance on the house from day 1. It can only be removed with the dissolution of the HOA. There is basically no legal oversight on what they can or can't do.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:45
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bend posted:Every time I hear about HOAs I wonder why the people who hate them don't just steal the idea and run with it. Bugger what colour your house is, I reckon a bylaw asking for at least one project vehicle in the backyard and 15 minutes of power tool use per day minimum sounds like a great place to live. I've floated this idea several times. The problem is exactly what TooMuchAbstraction said it is. I couldn't be arsed to show up for those stupid loving meetings either unless there was free beer and pizza. Hmm, I guess I know what we'll spend the HOA dues on in my theoretical future HOA.  BTW, realtors aren't required to tell you about any such title encumbrances, either. The only reason I found out about the HOAs something like 3-4 of the houses I considered buying were encumbered with is because I did my title/deed research myself, and found it in the original deed. And then immediately crossed it off my list. Do your due diligence. Even if you have a real estate lawyer (you should, and no, the bank's and the seller's are right out, get your own title insurance and inspection too) you should be researching the deed yourself as well.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:50
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kastein posted:I've floated this idea several times. The problem is exactly what TooMuchAbstraction said it is. I couldn't be arsed to show up for those stupid loving meetings either unless there was free beer and pizza. Meetings should consist of a Saturday night pissup at the house with the biggest backyard or workshop surely. HOA fees to cover beer, pizza and a communal trailer to retrieve broken down cars.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:59
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90% of the HOA fees that our HOA gets is from the local businesses in the neighborhood and the high end apartment complexes. poo poo's cheap for homeowners.
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Jul 25, 2014 22:01
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This is why I'll never buy a condo. Those sort of people being in charge of the building and it's upkeep often leads to disaster. In fact working a job where I inspect/tour condos on a regular basis only cements my desire to never ever buy into a condo. Condos deferring important upkeep so they can artificially keep the dues low to help their own condo sell. Condos jacking the fees up because "upkeep!" but then blowing it all on stupid useless poo poo like "a new native plant garden that just happens to be right outside the strata president's ground floor unit" or "ridiculously overpriced new lobby furniture and hey I recycled the old furniture by 'buying' it from the strata my self!". HOA's aren't doing the upkeep on your house, you don't share a roof with anyone, but I've certainly heard stories of them loving up and not doing important road work or utilities work. It's all nice having all your roads being private, until you need to do serious upkeep on them. Those low strata or HOA fees don't seem so low when everyone's suddenly hit with a 20k "special assessment". \/ And when you left and someone else replaced you were they just as awesome? Average stay in a condo is only something like 4-5 years, ridiculously low. The entire council can change fast, and with it the levels of busy-body rules and general incompetence. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 22:06
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I mentioned earlier that I was treasurer on a condo association and we were pretty great with dues and maintenance. Got to do your homework before you move into a place obviously.
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Jul 25, 2014 22:07
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I just bought my first house (close is Thursday) and I would have dragged my dick through half a mile of broken glass rather than buy a house with an HOA.
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Jul 25, 2014 22:23
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Baronjutter posted:\/ And when you left and someone else replaced you were they just as awesome? Average stay in a condo is only something like 4-5 years, ridiculously low. The entire council can change fast, and with it the levels of busy-body rules and general incompetence. Well, no one on the council gets paid, and the president who's been there for 15 years stays, things will not change. Once he goes though, then who knows.
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Jul 25, 2014 22:26
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Baronjutter posted:Average stay in a condo is only something like 4-5 years, ridiculously low. The entire council can change fast, and with it the levels of busy-body rules and general incompetence. 4 years? So it's basically Student Government Club for adults.
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Jul 25, 2014 23:43
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My HOA has the same board members on it from when it was formed 12 years ago. 10% of homeowners need to vote for SOMEONE ANYONE in order to establish quorum and have anybody's votes count. It has never happened, so we're stuck with the same pile of turds that started this whole thing because less than 1 in 10 homeowners can actually be arsed to fill in two bubbles on a postage-paid postcard to vote. And of course, they'll never change the bylaws to reduce or eliminate the voting requirement, no sir.
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Jul 25, 2014 23:51
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Didn't the Supreme Court strike down title encumberance? I know that was their justification for striking down an environmental law.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:00
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RandomPauI posted:Didn't the Supreme Court strike down title encumberance? I know that was their justification for striking down an environmental law. Uhhh....striking down title encumbrance would be a really major thing that would throw a lot of US land rights into chaos in many ways. This isn't just an HOA thing. Lots of people would be cut off from their properties, have to remove buried pipe and cable leading to their properties, pipelines would have to be shut down, many power companies would be without a way to transmit power over long distances...... Do you have some more details on what you think applies here?
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Jul 26, 2014 00:49
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We bought in a single family detached development with $300/year dues that goes towards maintenance of the common area mowing, sprinkler system, gazebos etc. The bylaws are like a quarter of a page and the only mildly interesting thing is that when you don't get a quorum or whatever for the annual meeting they send out an angry email blast asking people to submit proxy forms because apparently unless the HOA business or whatever is up to date and closed, no houses can be sold. So basically it's pretty unobtrusive, seems like there are ones out there that don't suck.
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Jul 26, 2014 01:03
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I had some details mixed up. It ruled that certain title encumbrances for environmental protection for land sales from the government to private citizens were unconstitutional. Because gently caress the environment.
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Jul 26, 2014 01:08
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In my last HOA meeting one of my neighbors suggested we hire a security guard to patrol the public park across the street 24/7.
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Jul 26, 2014 01:53
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My wife wanted to show some rules for a new neighborhood going in outside of Austin, but they got smart and put the rules behind a password portal. The general gist is that after buying there, you must build a house: 1. That is at least 3,000 square feet. 2. Is at least 80% masonry. 3. Is of a design ultimately approved by the HOA. 4. Is built within a year of buying the land. Or you are forced to sell it. I can understand builder loans that give you a year to finish, but that is from the moment ground is broken. Here you have to figure out the plan for the land and get it built out of your own initiative all within a year, and that is disregarding the HOA, say, sitting on your plan for 4 months or something. The properties are not really moving, from what I can tell. Another fun one with HOAs here is if there is some land they cannot develop, they just stop paying taxes on it and the county takes it over. We saw a few of the parcels. The HOA is still maintaining the land and making it pretty, but not paying any of their taxes on it. Apparently whatever covenants and restrictions transfer to whoever buys the land from the county, so it's still useless because the HOA would have their way with you. It's a shame, because I could see buying one of the parcels, running a driveway along it, to a singlewide behind some houses. I could then commute down the road to the other patch of land, where I've knocked down their lovely landscaping and installed a really lovely food truck. We're tempted to find out what recourse we have to do any of this, because hey, why should they get to say what to do with the land when they wouldn't put out for the taxes on it? However, we're busy wondering what we could do with a patch of land that is also for sale that is almost entirely a 100-year floodplain.
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Jul 26, 2014 02:07
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Jerk McJerkface posted:On the topic of HOA's. are there actually municipality laws that allow that? How can a neighborhood force you to sign up and pay if you buy a house there? I'd just be like "no, not signing up, sorry." It's not like they have anything to do with bank or mortgage when you buy. A significant number of HOA neighborhoods aren't actually located in a municipality.
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Jul 26, 2014 02:20
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I once did some work for a guy who dropped 30k extra to buy a swanky fuckin gate and landscaping for the entire neighborhood to buy his way out of the HOA when he bought his property. He has the right idea. And way too much money, drat.
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Jul 26, 2014 03:07
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Arrath posted:I once did some work for a guy who dropped 30k extra to buy a swanky fuckin gate and landscaping for the entire neighborhood to buy his way out of the HOA when he bought his property. He has the right idea. And way too much money, drat. ...but did he give them the pass code to said gate?
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Jul 26, 2014 05:44
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:My only solace for the modern HOA and McMansions is that when it comes time for them to do dramatic work to keep the houses from collapsing ftfy. HOAs and home construction methods since the mid 1970s are a holocaust of idiocy waiting to happen. The best part is that it doesn't matter whether it's a $55-grand shotgun shack or a million-dollar mansion: onsite stickbuilding is a travesty of shoddy workmanship, materials shortcuts, and paid-off code inspectors. These generalisations are based on my 30-years as a property adjuster. There are, of course, good builders and conscientious people building top-notch stuff, but they seem more the exception these days. Take OSB. Used properly, good oriented strandboard meets or exceeds plywood in many applicatons. I do not think it is wise to use it for either roof decking or exterior sheathing, as it doesn't seem to hold roofing and siding (particularly siding) nails very well, although that could be the type of fastener. Mainly, though, it doesn't tolerate repeated wetting as well as plywood - it will turn to oatmeal fast...and this is where lovely construction comes in, since the most grievous sins I see regularly are in weather finishes. Everyone seems to have forgotten principles of water flow & travel, and how to properly flash and overlap at valleys and openings. My house was built by the lowest WPA/NRA builder in 1930, and the wood windows have never leaked. Meanwhile, crap built in 1995 has rotted windows, trims, siding & stucco falling off & sheathing rot under & around every wall & roof opening & behind chimney structures. A hailstorm exposed $45,000 worth of this in my sister's $400K cardboard McMansion a few years ago. The house was eleven years old. The worst use of OSB is in kitchen subfloors. You get one good seeping leak, and you can remove the damage with a soup spoon. Then you wind up tearing out the entire kitchen floor - which means base cabinets, counters, all appliances...whereas with plywood, it's usually a cut & patch the area...if it's bad enough. When I was building my garage, it rained 10-15 times on my exposed 3/4" plywood decking, on the second floor. At times, it collected like a shallow pool. I thought I'd lose it from this repeated soaking. Ten years on, it's still there; - a bit grayer, and with a little grain showing, but solid as the day I laid it. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 26, 2014 14:54
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Hell yes painterofcrap. Preach it. I haven't seen proper flashing, gutters with proper slope and placement or any other sort of correct waterproofing in volume built new construction pretty much ever. As for exterior walls, there is simply no excuse not to use zip board or similar. Its slightly more expensive than OSB and tyvec but you save labor and it has a crazy warranty (like 25 years covered providing it gets covered inside of something else crazy long......I think 6 months.
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Jul 26, 2014 15:18
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Motronic posted:As for exterior walls, there is simply no excuse not to use zip board or similar. Its slightly more expensive than OSB and tyvec but you save labor and it has a crazy warranty (like 25 years covered providing it gets covered inside of something else crazy long......I think 6 months. I specced 3/4" plywood for all my sheathing (roof and wall exteriors) mostly because I didn't trust the sound of OSB. Sounds like a good idea in retrospect because there is absolutely zero chance of the workshop not getting soaked several times while I'm working on it (we get regular incredibly thick fog around here that just gets everything seriously damp). I get the impression that these other materials are basically tradeoffs of price vs. quality except in ways where the quality probably isn't relevant? E.g. it doesn't matter if you use OSB if the OSB is used in a way such that it'll never get wet. I'd not heard of zip board before; it looks like some kind of combined plywood+vapor barrier system. Any particular reason beyond convenience to use it instead of plywood plus a plastic wrap?
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Jul 26, 2014 15:55
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:
Its not a vapor barrier and you wouldn't use plastic in its place. A vapor barrier belongs on the hot side of an exterior wall. Tyvec is a breathable membrane that acts as a gross water repellent (not hard barrier) and wind brake. Beside ease of installation of zip board (put it up, tape joints, done) it simply makes a superior break. To do the same with tyvec would require taping every staple you put it up with. And in the end it costs about the same as OSB and tyvec. So why wouldn't you save time and get a better result for basically the same cash?
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Jul 26, 2014 16:09
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Any idea how it will fare after 50 years? 75? As the owner of a brick/cinder block home built in 1958, anything I should be particularly attentive to? Other than the usual lead/asbestos awareness?
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Jul 26, 2014 21:21
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Mercury Ballistic posted:Any idea how it will fare after 50 years? 75? You mean how zip board will hold up? Who knows. It hasn't been on the market that long. But even OSB will hold up if it's properly water tight (meaning a breathable membrane that keeps most water off of it but still lets moisture wick out). So something that is coated with this stuff rather than having it stapled on seems a lot more foolproof. If money and time were no object I'd have a hard time choosing between plywood/properly taped up tyvec and zip board. But in the real world.......zip board seems to make the most sense. Obviously I'm talking about stick building. I'd prefer your masonry house any day, providing it was configured as I want it already - it suck to deal with new windows/doors/etc on masonry houses, but the well built ones are gonna last a whole lot longer than a stick frame. But you still need to worry about the same things. Make sure the basement is tight. If you see cracking/shifting/water address it. Make sure your gutters are clean, correctly sloped and sump a least a few feet from the house. And of course, the roof. Nothing short of a flood causes expensive damage faster than a bad roof.
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Jul 26, 2014 21:29
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Also recommending zip board, watch the first 5 minutes of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0MYWCpidvg Tyvek is a bitch to put up because of all the stapling involved, with zip board you have to tape joints but that's pretty much it.
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Jul 26, 2014 21:36
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Yeah, I see your point on how it has the benefits of both plywood and tyvec, with less labor. As far as I can tell, the previous owner took pretty good care. There is a recently installed sump system inside the basement, with battery backup. As far as I can tell, it never comes on except to send the AC condensate out. The basement has a bit of slope, but the yard is well drained and the driveway slopes away and the house is on a hill that already takes the water away. I would like to have an exterior french drain, but as of now that is unlikely. It has gutter helmet, but at the last good rainstorm I saw the downspout was clogged and it overflowed, soaking the side of the house. I cleared the clog, and it should be ok for now. I hope to get some pics soon, my area has seedy developers knocking down the older brick homes in the development and putting up the usual faux colonial mansion things with lots of fake stone and brick facades and side walls with no windows and 10 miles of vinyl siding.
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Jul 26, 2014 21:38
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Mercury Ballistic posted:Any idea how it will fare after 50 years? 75? Mine is another 1950s brick and cinder. The biggest thing you need to watch for with any masonry building is cracks forming and mortar falling out. That can all be repaired fairly easily, except for maybe basement wall cracks. Those take a bit more effort to repair and seal properly. The 1950s was the the balancing point for drywall becoming more popular than plaster, so you got a 50% chance of having either. Plaster cracks a bit more easily than drywall, and 6 decades is plenty of time for your house to settle and plaster to start cracking. Still, walls are easy to repair, they just take time and patience. Plumbing might be a worry, particularly drains. That was a popular time for steel pipes, and steel rusts. 60 years of rust can make your pipes narrow and snaggy on the inside. Supply pipes were all copper then, those should all be fine except for things like rubber washers inside valves. Electric should be fine too. Ground wires only first started becoming used in the 1950s, so you might get super lucky and be able to have 3 prong outlets. If you have lots of electric toys, then you might need to split some circuits into 2 circuits (they really liked to overextend circuits back then), or even upgrade your entire service. 60 years is old enough for all your major appliances to have been replaced 1-3 times, so there is no telling how well off your furnace/water heater/whatever are. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 26, 2014 22:13
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kid sinister posted:Mine is another 1950s brick and cinder. The biggest thing you need to watch for with any masonry building is cracks forming and mortar falling out. That can all be repaired fairly easily, except for maybe basement wall cracks. Those take a bit more effort to repair and seal properly. Thanks for the info. I am not too worried about much except the actual walls to be honest. I know the electrical has been upgraded, 200 amp service, new panel in 2012, new furnace, newish water heater, and we are doing the kitchen. The oldest appliance is the oven or dryer, both of which we will replace when needed. Drywall all around and mostly 3 prong outlets. We even paid a small fortune to have a camera look into the sewer line to the street as some homes in the area used that sketchy concrete/cardboard stuff. We have cast iron all the way. Like I said, water ingress and structural is what keeps me up at night.
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Jul 26, 2014 23:07
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RE: Brick chat. Currently living in a brick and mortar house built in the thirties. It used to belong to my grandfather, and one side of the living room floor is a bit lower than on the other side of the same. When i asked my grampa about it, he told me that that was where the shell landed and they had to fill up the hole and it settled a bit over the decades. 
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Jul 27, 2014 06:36
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Baronjutter posted:This is why I'll never buy a condo. Those sort of people being in charge of the building and it's upkeep often leads to disaster. In fact working a job where I inspect/tour condos on a regular basis only cements my desire to never ever buy into a condo. I'm actually on the hoa board because there aren't any other owners to serve. The church that is next door to the property owns four of the units and isn't hiding the fact that they want the rest. Hell, I might sell my condo and buy am actual house this year because on top of the inevitable raising of the dues we may do a special assessment to restucco the walls and redo the wood siding. From what I remember it would be about $5k just for my unit.
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Jul 27, 2014 12:30
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diremonk posted:I'm currently regretting buying the condo I live in four years ago. Every year the dues have gone up 10%, currently they are at $285 a month. What does that get me you may ask? Water to my backyard, a gardener to mow the front lawns, and ... that's about it. The problem we have is that the hoa is made up of 8 units and almost no maintenance has been done on them since they were built in 1982. Fun fact, it may be different in the state your in but in California board members can be found legally liable if the HOA collapses. Let's say a flood goes through, and depletes the funds beyond what insurance would cover and the HOA goes under? Board members can be sued.
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Jul 27, 2014 15:19
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