Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Kaedric posted:

I'm having a very successful (for me) run right now and I was curious. Is there a limitation to how much regen you can have?

I am playing a vinestalker, and I have an amulet of regeneration, artifact troll armor that has +regen on it in addition to the normal troll armor regen which puts me at 230 total regen (if I'm mathing the formula on the wiki right). I think this means that I still only regen 1 hp per turn though, right?

I should also mention that I have a +8 vampiric triple sword for extra comedy 'regen'.

EDIT: ahahah and I just picked up the regeneration mutation so now I have regen 3

I'm p.sure artefact troll armour always has the Regen property explicitly listed, the way artefact FDA will always have rF++ rC- listed, artefact amulets always have their base property etc. It's not stacking with the intrinsic, just making clear the armour's properties.

# ? Jan 28, 2017 19:56

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# ? May 31, 2024 07:14

Kaedric: Sep 5, 2000

That's possible, although that does seem to make moon troll armor kind of confusing.

# ? Jan 28, 2017 20:29

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

It shows up as regen++ in that case, to make it obvious you're getting an extra layer of regen.

# ? Jan 28, 2017 20:49

Thalamas: Dec 5, 2003; Sup?

code:

Thalamas the Demonologist (Demonspawn Fighter)    Turns: 122477, Time: 06:37:56

HP:   283/283 (287) AC: 27    Str: 23    XL:     27
MP:   46/46         EV: 32    Int: 11    God:    Gozag
Gold: 4468          SH: 28    Dex: 25    Spells: 13/65 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis +    z - +9 double sword (elec)
rCold  + + +      Gourm    .    g - +5 robe of Night {Dark MR+ SInv}
rNeg   + + +      Faith    .    x - +5 shield {reflect}
rPois  +          Spirit   .    q - -2 hat of the Alchemist {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ rN+ MR+ rMut rCorr}
rElec  +          Reflect  +    f - +2 cloak of Sif Muna's Hatred {Slay+5}
rCorr  +          Harm     .    c - +0 pair of fencer's gloves {+Riposte Dex+3}
rMut   +                        (boots unavailable)
MR     ++++.                    s - brooch of Shielding {Reflect SH+8}
Stlth  ++++++....               b - ring of Zetziyre {rF+ rN+ SInv}
Regen  0.6/turn                 R - ring "Seumail" {rF+ rC+ rN+ Dex+2}

@: no status effects
A: hooves 3, iridescent scales 3, cold resistance 1, deformed body, demonic
guardian 3, icemail, robust 3, shaggy fur 1, strong 1, wild magic 1, no potion
heal 1, freezing cloud immunity
}: 5/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, abyssal, gossamer

I had Boots of the Assassin, but couldn't wear them anymore when Hooves hit 3. Close to getting Dragon's Call castable. Opened a ton of shops and still haven't found a randart shield. The gloves are awesome. Huge damage increase.

I really miss rMut being more readily available.

Trove showed up this game. 15 Teleport scrolls. Rough nowadays since Teleport doesn't show up on wands. Luckily, they show up in Abyss, so I scummed for 7 or so.

# ? Jan 28, 2017 22:53

Kaedric: Sep 5, 2000

Wheeee I won (3 rune) with the regen Vinestalker guy of Trog, following your guys' advice. The whole 'not walking towards dudes' was clearly and obviously a huge improvement in my survivability. To be fair though I probably only won because of my very good luck on item drops.

I have no idea how a squishy character would survive vaults 5 though, that was bonkers.

# ? Jan 28, 2017 23:56

Roctavian: Feb 23, 2011

favorite thing in crawl right now: playing as VM, mapping Poisonous Vapors to p and pretending "poison enemy" is a default crawl keybind that always works

# ? Jan 29, 2017 03:12

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

My new favorite thing is LRD in crypt. You blow up enemies like you're popping bubble wrap.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 03:37

brainwrinkle: Oct 18, 2009; What's going on in here?; Buglord

I had a very promising VpEn with amazing artifact luck going, but then got him killed to a Salamander Mystic and a few Naga Sharpshooters on Snake:3. It's so easy to get overconfident in your stealth and get in a bad position as a stabber. Popping things in one hit feels great! I don't fully understand how to transition to a less stab-based combat style though.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 03:43

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Kaedric posted:

I have no idea how a squishy character would survive vaults 5 though, that was bonkers.

There are a variety of strategies and tactic, depending on 'things'. They all have their own risks and drawbacks so I'll only toss a couple ideas at you without any depth. Strategy: get another rune. Abyss, tomb if you have protection from torment, slime if you can kill things fast enough - especially eyes and acid blobs. Tactic: get the hell off that staircase with translocations or blink scrolls, then kill everything. It's a bit more treacherous than I make it sound, but it's workable.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 04:54

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

My Vaults:5 strategy is to read teleport scrolls until I land relatively close to one of the corners and then burn consumables to survive the initial clusterfuck. From there, its a lot easier to clean out the entire level with a safe area to retreat too. Fighting in the center is a great way to get overwhelmed by enemies pouring out of all 4 vaults at once.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:08

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Kaedric posted:

I have no idea how a squishy character would survive vaults 5 though, that was bonkers.

Quaffing haste and running or blinking into one of the corridors lets you funnel things into a more manageable situation. Certain spells can also make a joke of the ambush. Quaffing brilliance and haste before going down the stairs then using ozo's refrigeration is the best way to handle the ambush. It kills everything quickly and quietly, then lets you sneak around and enter the quadrants through the back corners. Be very careful around golden dragons with a refrigerator mage if you don't have rPois, though! Olgreb's toxic radiance is easy to cast, quiet and seriously messes the vault guards up. You can speed up the process with ignite poison, if you want to kill things in a hurry.

The comedy option for a caster is to go loud with a CBL servitor, which will bring absolutely everything on the level to your position, but it will also kill all of it, too.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:23

GenericOverusedName: Nov 24, 2009; KUVA TEAM EPIC

Quaff resistance, read a scroll of vulnerability and a scroll of immolation, explode and die hilariously!

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:29

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Nuke the initial wave, retreat upstairs, clear Depths for a few levels to let the quadrants calm down again.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:32

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Heithinn Grasida posted:

The comedy option for a caster is to go loud with a CBL servitor, which will bring absolutely everything on the level to your position, but it will also kill all of it, too.

Why stop there? Grab Shatter and spam that until everything is dead. :getin:

(Or one of the other L9s, but Shatter's more fun)

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:33

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

GenericOverusedName posted:

Quaff resistance, read a scroll of vulnerability and a scroll of immolation, explode and die hilariously!

why vulnerability?

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:39

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Thalamas posted:

Rough nowadays since Teleport doesn't show up on wands.

It doesn't? poo poo, that'd be really upsetting if I ever played anything but formicids.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:42

GenericOverusedName: Nov 24, 2009; KUVA TEAM EPIC

PleasingFungus posted:

why vulnerability?

I thought the immolation scroll checked MR but I can't remember off the top of my head if that's true or not

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:45

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Nope! It can't be resisted at all, although the single-target spell version(Inner Flame) can.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:51

GenericOverusedName: Nov 24, 2009; KUVA TEAM EPIC

Well then just do the exploding one then!

I tried this on my ant fight man but I didn't have a way to set off a good chain reaction, sadly.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 05:57

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Haifisch posted:

Why stop there? Grab Shatter and spam that until everything is dead. (Or one of the other L9s, but Shatter's more fun)

I find a CBL servitor to be even more hilarious than level 9 spells, though it might not be as good now that you can't haste yourself and the servitor and fill the screen with almost 30 3d20 damage balls in the time it takes a vault guard to attack once.

To be more serious, I usually take servitor if I'm playing a hybrid that can't easily afford level 9 spells, like an HE (rip) melee character or DE archer. It deals huge damage while you fight and and summoning comes with loads of utility. It's pretty rare that I actually make a CBL servitor, though, since rElec is mandatory and if you can cast a level 7 summon, you usually want to pick up some other summons to go with it. CBL servitors can go nicely with malign gateway, though.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 06:19

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

How the hell can you use CBJ with a Servitor and not kill yourself? I tried teaching it to mine last game and it spammed it against the most trivial threats. Which is a problem when the ball lightning still hurts you, and even with rElec it adds up when its casting that poo poo constantly.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 10:00

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

The best way to clear V:5 will always be Qazlal disaster area. Combine that with a scroll of immolation and embrace being the walking apocalypse you are.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 12:19

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

Carcer posted:

The best way to clear V:5 will always be Qazlal disaster area. Combine that with a scroll of immolation and embrace being the walking apocalypse you are.

Wrong, Discord is the best way.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 13:03

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Internet Kraken posted:

How the hell can you use CBJ with a Servitor and not kill yourself? I tried teaching it to mine last game and it spammed it against the most trivial threats. Which is a problem when the ball lightning still hurts you, and even with rElec it adds up when its casting that poo poo constantly.

I don't get a chance to do it all that often, but when I did, since this "combo" means CBL is your only attack spell except for possibly chain lightning or tornado, it was always on a hybrid who had solid weapon skills. So I never bust out the servitor against minor threats. When I do summon it, I play the same was as when I'm casting CBL by itself. Cast at enemies far away while gradually retreating and trying to stay out of the blast radius of the ball lightning. With a servitor, it will eventually get in the enemies' face and blow everything up (including itself, though it has rElec++ so it dies more slowly than the enemy.) Once it starts getting close to enemies, you need to be quite a few tiles away unless you're positive there won't be reinforcements. Don't use the servitor, or CBL at all, against yaktaur packs, since they'll pop the ball lightings while they're still close to you. It's at its best on an archer with portal projectile, who can stand well away and shoot enemies past the ball lightnings.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 17:00

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

E Equals MC Hammer posted:

Wrong, Discord is the best way.

Nay, for it is actually Corrupt.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 17:34

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

It is actually to be hella swole and hold down tab.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 17:43

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

It is when you personally take the time to end every vault guard one at a time using vi keys without an axe.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 18:01

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

Riposte does some serious work if you're planning on slugging it out. Go down stairs, bunch of stuff dies, attack something, more things kill themselves walking into your sword.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 18:19

Kaedric: Sep 5, 2000

Carcer posted:

Riposte does some serious work if you're planning on slugging it out. Go down stairs, bunch of stuff dies, attack something, more things kill themselves walking into your sword.

This is what my vinestalker did. I had a +9 vampiric triple sword and riposte gloves. Riposte owns and I honestly don't like other weapons now

# ? Jan 29, 2017 21:35

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

Carcer posted:

The best way to clear V:5 will always be Qazlal disaster area. Combine that with a scroll of immolation and embrace being the walking apocalypse you are.

The best way to be a walking apocalypse is to use the ability literally called Apocalypse and kill your enemies with the great annihilating truth.

# ? Jan 29, 2017 23:35

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

I never really liked the names for Ru's abilities, they aren't terribly thematic or cohesive.

# ? Jan 30, 2017 07:52

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Carcer posted:

I never really liked the names for Ru's abilities, they aren't terribly thematic or cohesive.

They all seem fine to me other then apocalypse, which seems like an ability more suited for Qazlal. It could be renamed something like Revelation to be more thematically appropriate, since I imagine you're shattering your foes' minds with some unbearable truth.

# ? Jan 30, 2017 09:06

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

I'd argue that power leap is a less than inspired name, it makes me think of the barbarian from diablo 2 jumping about the screen.

# ? Jan 30, 2017 09:20

Otherkinsey Scale: Jul 17, 2012; Just a little bit of sunshine!

E Equals MC Hammer posted:

It is actually to be hella swole and hold down tab.

This is the best way to clear everything though.

# ? Jan 30, 2017 09:43

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

How does armor (and armour skill) interact with stealth in modern crawl? I'm running a stabby vine stalker, and he's very fragile so I stuck some chain mail on him, but I'm not sure if that just killed his sneaking potential.

# ? Jan 30, 2017 10:00

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

The heavier a piece of armour is the more it penalizes your stealth. Chain mail is pretty heavy so its a bad idea for a sneaky character. Generally speaking, anything with more encumbrance than leather armour is a bad idea if you are going stealth heavy. The exception to this is shadow dragon armour; the stealth boost provided by it is high enough to completely negate the heavy armour penalty. Its still exceptionally heavy though so it will gently caress up your dodging and spellcasting quite a bit.

I'm hardly an expert of stealth characters (I'm trying to improve that right now and its going...poorly), but leather armour combined with the spell ozocubu's armour is the easiest way to get some durability without crippling your stealth.

# ? Jan 30, 2017 10:14

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Panic! at Nabisco posted:

How does armor (and armour skill) interact with stealth in modern crawl? I'm running a stabby vine stalker, and he's very fragile so I stuck some chain mail on him, but I'm not sure if that just killed his sneaking potential.

Your stealth is penalized by the encumbrance rating of the armour (by some formula I don't remember off the top of my head, but it involves squaring the value so higher values will have much larger penalties than smaller ones). I think it's the base encumbrance of the armour rather than the adjusted value based on your strength/skill, so higher armour skill doesn't make a difference to your stealth ability.

# ? Jan 30, 2017 10:17

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

drat. I guess I'll just square off with things fair and square with my +9 quickblade (thanks grandpa trog!) until I find some really good light armor, then, since super light armor with VS fragility gives me heart attacks.

# ? Jan 30, 2017 10:20

brainwrinkle: Oct 18, 2009; What's going on in here?; Buglord

If you press % you can see you character summary. It has a stealth meter there based on your current equipment. Chainmail is probably costing you 4 pips or more.

# ? Jan 30, 2017 14:52

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# ? May 31, 2024 07:14

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Cyno changes that I should be pushing today (hopefully) once I work out the bugs and fix my hack coding to at least be somewhat acceptable:

-Cyno XP aptitude from -4 to -2

-Cyno flat aptitudes reduced from +2 to 0 (for display purposes only, see below)

-Static skill cap has been removed

-Cyno now uses a different skill cost table compared to any other species (a combination of Internet Kraken and PleasingFungus's proposals, also CKyle earlier even though I disliked it at the time). It bakes the aptitude's skill cost modifier into the table itself to simulate the aptitude decreasing through training without futzing with the experience pools, and displays the current 'aptitude' in the manual bonus column (which stacks with manuals if you have one). The skill costs per skill level will be as if you had the following aptitudes:

code:

0 - 3: +3
3.1 - 6: +2
6.1 - 9: +1
9.1 - 12: 0
12.1 - 15: -1
15.1 - 18: -2
18.1 - 21: -3
21.1 - 27: -4

This system should keep the spirit of the skill cap alive for the most part (you can still train up to 12.0 at a roughly better than +1 aptitude, higher than ~15.0 will be worse than Human, higher than ~20.0 and you could have just picked Mummy), while alleviating the feeling of having 'nothing to train' that starts occuring around the first rune.

I'll post another update when I actually push this (although I'm unsure when CBRO will update the branch after the push).

Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jan 30, 2017

# ? Jan 30, 2017 15:16

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