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Feb 12, 2017 14:48
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Haifisch posted:Speculation? Check. Mixing money and family? Check. Being burnt by putting all their eggs in one basket for a hilariously long timeframe? Check. Easy to be smug. Presumably this is an NYC yellow cabbie. The medallions used to be like gold dust and set many an immigrant family on the path to prosperity. Then Uber made them almost worthless overnight. People aren't psychic and you need to take a risk to make money in business.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:23
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lmao
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Feb 12, 2017 15:52
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BarbarianElephant posted:Easy to be smug. Presumably this is an NYC yellow cabbie. The medallions used to be like gold dust and set many an immigrant family on the path to prosperity. Then Uber made them almost worthless overnight. People aren't psychic and you need to take a risk to make money in business. Pretty much this. No one expected a company to show up that would so blatantly flaunt the law and get away with it as completely as Uber, Lyft, etc have. Of course, automation is coming and we're likely to see Johnny Cabs in 10 years, so this guy should have gotten out anyway, but blaming the guy here is a little tasteless.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:54
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Incredible.
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Feb 12, 2017 15:55
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Volmarias posted:Pretty much this. No one expected a company to show up that would so blatantly flaunt the law and get away with it as completely as Uber, Lyft, etc have. He used leverage to purchase an asset at the height of a bubble. It sounds to me like if his plan had gone "right" it still would have been 10 or 15 years before he saw return on his money. He also relies on exploiting others (the cab driver) to actually make money, so he could be a mostly passive owner. It's not the most egregious BWM we've seen in this thread (it seems like he has a pretty good life otherwise), but it was a bad investment with a bad business plan. It's analogous to someone buying a house as an investment property, and being unable to make payments when they can't get a renter for a few months. Or it's like those people who tried to make a business out of Bitcoin mining, whose business plan was "if Bitcoin stays above $x, electricity is below $y, and the server runs 24/7, I can pay off the loan in 3 years!" I don't know how a medallion loan is structured, but if it's anything like a mortgage he should probably walk away from it and let the bank deal with the results of his bad investment. The medallion isn't likely to get more valuable over time.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:15
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Doesn't he have only a couple cars? I always assumed they'd have more than that under a medallion for some reason.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:17
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NancyPants posted:Doesn't he have only a couple cars? I always assumed they'd have more than that under a medallion for some reason. 1 medallion = 1 vehicle. It's bolted onto the body (usually the hood).
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Feb 12, 2017 17:40
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flosofl posted:1 medallion = 1 vehicle. It's bolted onto the body (usually the hood). Ohhhhhhhhh
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Feb 12, 2017 18:05
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BarbarianElephant posted:Easy to be smug. Presumably this is an NYC yellow cabbie. The medallions used to be like gold dust and set many an immigrant family on the path to prosperity. Then Uber made them almost worthless overnight. People aren't psychic and you need to take a risk to make money in business. Poor immigrants getting $900K loans for medallions?
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Feb 12, 2017 18:08
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monster on a stick posted:Poor immigrants getting $900K loans for medallions? Yep. Banks would underwrite this as it used to be very good return for them. There are also partnerships that buy a medallion and then lease it out. If you could get a medallion for yourself as an independent operator you could clear a decent amount of money in year after operating expenses and overhead. Medallions in NYC were extremely valuable since they limited the number of active Taxi vehicles allowed in the city. Until Uber came along and cut their legs out from under them. I'm not making any judgements re: Uber/Lyft vs. traditional taxi services, but it completely gutted a lot of taxi income in major cities.
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Feb 12, 2017 18:40
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flosofl posted:Yep. Banks would underwrite this as it used to be very good return for them. There are also partnerships that buy a medallion and then lease it out. Maybe Uber would never have gotten started if people weren't paying higher cab fares to offset $900K medallions, or cities had expanded the number of medallions (driving down the cost.) But then the banks wouldn't be able to make loans with guaranteed results if they foreclosed on the loan:  And yeah I get that Uber/Lyft has gutted the taxi industry, but here's my view as a rider: when I used to take taxis, they were expensive, took forever to arrive, were uncomfortable, and I'm pretty sure they took me on the scenic route more than a few times. I've never had this problem with Uber, except once when I took an Uber Pool and it had to make another drive around Arrivals to pick up another passenger (which is part of the reason why Pool is less expensive.) Uber could raise their prices a moderate amount so their drivers made more and I would still prefer Uber. The last time I traveled on the company dime, when it literally didn't matter whether I took a cab or an Uber because someone else was paying the bill, I still took Uber. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 18:55
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turn left dale noooo
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Feb 12, 2017 18:57
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Voted 5. I feel terrible for the medallion holder.
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Feb 12, 2017 19:57
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Oh since anecdotal experience is so valid, in my area the taxi arrives within 5 minutes and the drivers are almost never creepy Libertarians that give off rape vibes. It costs what it costs and there's never this surge pricing bullshit. I never have to go on a scenic route. Plus last time I got a hilarious old Korean lady and we got to poo poo talk everyone else, it was great. Taxi monopolies are a huge problem and more needs to be done to introduce competition both for workers and consumers, but Uber/Lyft do nothing for that. Creating another class of "independent contractor" slaves, not to mention the thriving opportunities for discrimination of women and people of color, just so you can ride in a loving Tahoe isn't the solution. Also not on topic, so have some BWM to atone for my sins because I am a shitlord: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/5tlnbf/24_with_52_k_in_student_loans_and_moderate_future/?st=iz3256y9&sh=55a3825f posted:Edit: new account because my regular has a lot of identifying information.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:35
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The more time I spend online the more I think the solar flare won't be so bad
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Feb 12, 2017 20:49
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This thread has broken me such that $50K in loans doesn't seem like that big a deal.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:52
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Subjunctive posted:This thread has broken me such that $50K in loans doesn't seem like that big a deal. Same, I was waiting for the horse wedding.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:08
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Subjunctive posted:This thread has broken me such that $50K in loans doesn't seem like that big a deal. Oh me too, I was like "oh that's only 1 year of starting salary..." reality check: for a job he doesn't even have lined up. e: is it legal to charge someone interest on a personal loan if you aren't a bank?
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Feb 12, 2017 21:15
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Yes
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Feb 12, 2017 21:19
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It's haram af tho. e: I have loaned ~$12k to a friend, which is probably BWMaL, but at least I would guillotine myself before I charged interest. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 21:38
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I mean I feel bad but that's how student loans work. Also charging a relative interest is loving shady as hell.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:52
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Also charging a relative interest is loving shady as hell. It reminds me of Principal Skinner talking about having to pay his mother back for all the food he ate as a baby.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:05
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I mean I feel bad but that's how student loans work. Also charging a relative interest is loving shady as hell. Counterpoint: The borrower not offering to pay interest because it's a relative is shady. I think the way to do it within family is: Lender 1) be prepared to never get paid back 2) accept a reasonable interest rate adjusting for closeness of relationship and life circumstances (e.g. not based on lending risk or opportunity cost) 3) be flexible on repayment Borrower 1) only ask to borrow money if you have an actual plan and the capability of paying it back 2) offer to pay interest to offset the opportunity cost of the lender's money 3) have open communications with your lender if you are having trouble back repaying the loan and cut down all discretionary spending on yourself before cutting your repayments
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Feb 12, 2017 22:48
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I thought you had to charge interest or else it was considered a gift and taxed as such?
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Feb 12, 2017 23:03
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ohgodwhat posted:I thought you had to charge interest or else it was considered a gift and taxed as such? No this is a myth
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Feb 12, 2017 23:04
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Mantle posted:I think the way to do it within family is: Lender 1)Make it a gift, and have any repayment be a pleasant surprise. Assuming you value the relationship enough that you don't want it to implode, anyway.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:05
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Pryor on Fire posted:No this is a myth Then why wouldn't you give gifts as interest free loans that never had to be paid back? Like, pretty much everything I've looked at so far says you're wrong. ohgodwhat fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 23:32
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Every time I read one of those more reasonable "I have a bunch of college debt and no job lined up" pieces I think about how lucky I was/am because I think there's A LOT more of those people out there. At least the Reddit people acknowledge that it's a problem. I had no clue how hilariously hosed I'd be coming out of college with an English lit degree. BWM-- Grandparents had done zero estate planning because I guess they thought they'd live forever even as they were falling down every few months and having more and more regular hospital visits. So, I guess there's going to be no money to inherit as it's all going to the nursing homes. My father and his sister talked to a financial advisor when my grandfather was going permanently into a nursing home and the advisor told them they were years too late to do anything. I really don't need the money. It's not mine, and I never really planned on it. But, I was often told that I had an inheritance coming and it "was safe" and my general opinion is that the elder care system in the US is the scummiest of scum and wring old people out for their last dollar, so I'm pretty unhappy that it's going to that industry. GWM-- Addict brother borrowed tens of thousands of dollars from them and failed / fails regularly to pay them back. I was told he "had spent his inheritance." Whelp, I guess being a deadbeat is overall BWL / BWM but GWM in this single instance.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:36
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ohgodwhat posted:Then why wouldn't you give gifts as interest free loans that never had to be paid back? Wow you found a loophole that literally no one has ever thought of Except the IRS: http://denhalaw.com/low-to-no-interest-rate-loans-to-family-be-careful/
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Feb 12, 2017 23:37
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monster on a stick posted:Wow you found a loophole that literally no one has ever thought of Dude, I agree, read my post. Pryor on Fire is just, as usual, posting worthless and misleading poo poo which could cost people money.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:44
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ohgodwhat posted:Dude, I agree, read my post. Pryor on Fire is just, as usual, posting worthless and misleading poo poo which could cost people money. Was Pryor on Fire the one who posted in the stock thread about how there literally wasn't any hydro in Wyoming, and then I typed <control>-t "google hydro plant wyoming" and found results in two seconds OH YES IT WAS https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3259986&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=754#post468699342 Blinkman987 posted:BWM-- Grandparents had done zero estate planning because I guess they thought they'd live forever even as they were falling down every few months and having more and more regular hospital visits. So, I guess there's going to be no money to inherit as it's all going to the nursing homes. My father and his sister talked to a financial advisor when my grandfather was going permanently into a nursing home and the advisor told them they were years too late to do anything. I really don't need the money. It's not mine, and I never really planned on it. But, I was often told that I had an inheritance coming and it "was safe" and my general opinion is that the elder care system in the US is the scummiest of scum and wring old people out for their last dollar, so I'm pretty unhappy that it's going to that industry. I am sorry that your grandparents are paying for their nursing home stays instead of the taxpayers, because Medicaid should not just be for the poor but also for people who want to pass inheritances along to the grandkids.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:52
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monster on a stick posted:I am sorry that your grandparents are paying for their nursing home stays instead of the taxpayers, because Medicaid should not just be for the poor but also for people who want to pass inheritances along to the grandkids. Did you shake your fist wildly at the air while saying that and going "MY TAXESSSSSSSSSSSS" If you want to talk reform, Medicaid should be for literally everyone. But that's not what this thread is about-- it's about people making individually bad financial decisions and not doing estate planning would qualify.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:02
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Yeah and Wyoming still doesn't do hydro power. I know because I just wrote about it. The coal lobby is pretty loving powerful around here, but it's actually a story about the history of water in the west rather than energy. It's a real shame too, we had a great opportunity to do get some real sources of serious wattage from rivers all through the west. At one point they were seriously considering banning coal, it's a wild story. Anyway, the gift tax is also still a myth, anything under $5 million and you're fine. I'm not even sure who "not from Wyoming" guy is, but uhh... I'd suggest not doubling down on being rude just because you were wrong twice.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:07
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Blinkman987 posted:Did you shake your fist wildly at the air while saying that and going "MY TAXESSSSSSSSSSSS" Like other social assistance programs, Medicaid nursing home coverage is a safety net for the poor. Do you think everyone should get food stamps too? Because you sound like one of those people who gets angry that the poor get stuff like Section 8 housing while you have to pay full price for your apartment. Pryor on Fire posted:Yeah and Wyoming still doesn't do hydro power. I know because I just wrote about it. Then  because there are literal hydro plants in Wyoming. Unless you think the Bureau of Reclamation is putting wrong information on their webzone: https://www.usbr.gov/projects/index.php?id=114https://www.usbr.gov/projects/facilities.php?state=Wyoming monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 00:11
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Quite a few old people end up divesting their assets before going into the nursing home, it makes sense if you don't have enough to cover the cost of care for however long you expect to live. Some people even take out as much credit as possible and buy their kids and grandkids expensive gifts, since you have little use for a good credit score in a nursing home. There's really no recourse unless the nursing home wants to force an involuntary bankruptcy on grandma.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:31
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Konstantin posted:Quite a few old people end up divesting their assets before going into the nursing home, it makes sense if you don't have enough to cover the cost of care for however long you expect to live. Some people even take out as much credit as possible and buy their kids and grandkids expensive gifts, since you have little use for a good credit score in a nursing home. There's really no recourse unless the nursing home wants to force an involuntary bankruptcy on grandma. The issue is that if you want Medicaid, meaning you've run out of money and credit (and nursing homes do kick people out who can't pay anymore), the government will go through your records for the past few years and if you've gifted all your assets to your family, they'll ask for the money back: https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/dont-go-broke-in-a-nursing-home----medicare-is-not-going-to-pay-your-nursing-home-bills-2 posted:Seniors who want to avoid being impoverished have to compete with a harsh reality that was put in place by former President Bush's administration when Congress passed the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 (DRA). The DRA made harsh changes in the way that the government will punish seniors for acts of charity and family giving. The Medicaid rules assume that when a senior makes a gift, the purpose of that gift was to get rid of some assets in order to qualify for Medicaid nursing home expenses. That's right - seniors are guilty until proven innocent. The DRA creates a penalty of ineligibility for Medicaid when a senior who gave away money needs nursing home services at any time within 5 years after the gift. It's a harsh punishment that our government has created for seniors who suffer chronic long-term illnesses within 5 years after a gift. Technically the kids don't have to pay the money back, but in that case the government says "enjoy living on the street." So effectively it's a clawback. Don't get mad at Dubya, a lot of seniors were doing the "give all my money away, now I'm poor where's my free nursing home?" poo poo. Asset planning for Blinkman987's grandparents would have meant planning started years ago to fit in with these regulations, like putting the money in an income trust. Good With Inheritance, OTOH they would immediately be shoved into a Medicaid-quality nursing home.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:43
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Related to recent thread :masterstroke: Just Wait Until I'm Tenure(d Track) tl;dr - 200k student loans (took out a massive loan to do the first year of an American Studies PhD unfunded, self-funded trips to Europe to present his work at conferences, etc), 46k CC debt, makes $52k year as a tenure track professor in Maine. Overdraws nearly-tapped-out credit cards to get a full tank of gas so he can drive two hours to donate plasma. There's a happy-ish ending: Chapter 13 Bankruptcy. Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 01:08
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Pryor on Fire posted:Yeah and Wyoming still doesn't do hydro power. I know because I just wrote about it. But didn't read about it, it seems.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:28
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Really loving this argument about Wyoming's hydroelectric power generation in the Bad With Money thread
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Feb 13, 2017 02:21
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