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Galaxy Brain Idea: put that poo poo in plastic tubes and freeze it solid until you have Wine-O-Ice freeze pops.
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Jul 4, 2019 14:10
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idiotsavant posted:Y’all gimme your takes on chilled reds. Just found out by accident that actually, my 2018 red blend is definitely going into clear glass and getting released in the spring ‘cause it’s straight murder when it’s somewhere between “cold” and “kinda cold”. Serving it chilled feels a little like cheating ‘cause it quiets the wine down some while letting the fruit just blast; otoh it’s so loving juicy & good & slammable Just figure out a clever way to slip 'Glou' into the name and it'll sell like fuckin hot cakes in NYC. I'm a sucker for it all.
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Jul 5, 2019 15:19
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Haha, the thought had occurred to me.
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Jul 5, 2019 23:10
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Looks like I might be in Denver for work in October, any recommendations for Colarado wine cellar doors? Edit: Maybe a bit more info would be good, I like cool climate wines like Riesling and Pinot, but honestly I'm keen to try whatever they are good at. Trimson Grondag 3 fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 12:15
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I always thought wine pairing was a joke, but I tried a rioja with sharp cheddar and holy poo poo it worked.
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Jul 23, 2019 03:28
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Madeira and blue cheese was the first pairing to ever completely blow my mind. Fino sherry and sardines is a close second.
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Jul 23, 2019 04:49
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stinky epoisses + old stinky pinot fuckin owns
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Jul 23, 2019 06:21
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skooma512 posted:I always thought wine pairing was a joke You know what, buddy? You're a joke! To be fair, in a restaurant context I don't trust other sommeliers with pairings unless I know them. Too many rely on pairings to move stagnant product or to move things that get them fancy hipster allocations that they can post on Instagram. But man, there's nothing better than a perfect pairing.
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Jul 23, 2019 11:21
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For a while I've believed that pairing is a bell curve. There's very few that fail utterly especially if you add in some common sense. There's also very few that are sublime and greater than the sum of their parts. Most of them in the middle just work fine.
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Jul 23, 2019 14:18
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Crimson posted:Too many rely on pairings to move stagnant product or to move things that get them fancy hipster allocations that they can post on Instagram. But man, there's nothing better than a perfect pairing.
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Jul 23, 2019 19:07
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It definitely happens. One example that really made me cringe was when I was training my replacement as wine director at a restaurant in SF, and new guy points at a delicious Santa Cruz Cab from a tiny family owned winery I was pouring by the glass and asked, "why are you pouring that? It doesn't get you any allocations." I don't mean to discourage trusting somms entirely though. If you have the opportunity to develop a rapport with a talented sommelier, they can and will greatly enhance the experience. Good somms are just wine nerds who want to share all their cool toys with other excited people.
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Jul 23, 2019 22:30
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One thing on pairings - I feel like a lot of not-amazing somms will pair based more on perceived flavors vs actual important fundamental elements like acid and structure. Maybe that has more to do with the “moving product” bit though. It seems difficult to really nail the transcendent “gestalt” kind of pairings and such pairings seem to come as much from dumb luck as actual skill (with the given that they come from well-thought pairings to begin with), but I don’t think of setting up “good” pairings where the wine and food at least harmonize as insanely difficult.
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Jul 24, 2019 00:18
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You can get better and better with experience and by building your palate memory, but there's no substitute for actually trying the pairing yourself, which doesn't actually happen as often as you might think in restaurant scenarios. Lots of chefs will never plate up the dish for the team to try, and even if they do they may plate up one for a crowd of 15 jackals swarming, trying to get a bite. I take a lot of pride in my pairings, but my gut instinct is wrong frequently. It's great when you work with a chef that respects that side of it and makes the dish for the somm team, but that's actually rare. My current chef will make it and remake it and we all agree we've nailed it. That's unheard of.
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Jul 24, 2019 00:57
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Crimson posted:It definitely happens. One example that really made me cringe was when I was training my replacement as wine director at a restaurant in SF, and new guy points at a delicious Santa Cruz Cab from a tiny family owned winery I was pouring by the glass and asked, "why are you pouring that? It doesn't get you any allocations." The only time this is acceptable is when the "lower" wine is still superb. The only example that immediately springs to mind is Tondonia. There's no problem with selling the Reserva to get Gran Reserva, because they're both loving phenomenal wines. In fact, it's actually helpful, because you can say, "No, it was absolutely crucial I bought this much of the Reserva, and I'll not hear a word against it!"
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Jul 24, 2019 17:44
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Got something to celebrate and a bottle of Dr Loosen Beerenauslese queued up for the dinner, but what to pair it with? Can't think of a dessert (either super simple or buyable finished), perhaps have a little cheese dish with the wine, then a dessert to finish? All suggestions welcome. Also trying a new meat pairing. Wine works with red meat, but not as well with more common, folksy sides. Trying veal sirloin, baked potato, some yet-to-be-decided cream or egg based sauce and a Champagne pairing.
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Jul 25, 2019 21:10
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I remember reading somewhere that lower cost wines (I guess this would be everything $20 and below), especially those with screw tops, do not benefit from aging and are meant to be consumed right away. Is this a good general rule of thumb? Are there examples from your experience of lower cost wines that benefited from aging? I'm asking because I've been thinking about starting a collection but am trying to keep budget considerations in mind. Any examples as requested above would be a big help. Thanks!
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Jul 29, 2019 03:43
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anakha posted:I remember reading somewhere that lower cost wines (I guess this would be everything $20 and below), especially those with screw tops, do not benefit from aging and are meant to be consumed right away. The vast majority of wines are meant to be drank sooner rather than later. All wines change with age, with a few varieties/appellations that are generally regarded to improve with extended bottle aging. These are generally on the more expensive side, though not universally. That said, there are several producers that have experimented with extended aging under screw caps and they can be appropriate for extended aging also. It depends more on the original contents of the bottle, rather than the closure! What types of wine do you like? If we tell you to buy a bunch of vintage port, and you hate big, boozy, sweet red wines you will be cursing us all in 10-20 years.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:34
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Decent Hunter Valley Semillon is pretty cheap, frequently closed by screwcap, and can go a decade no sweat, but, again, if you don't like high acid, low alcohol whites when they are young, you very well might not like them aged either.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:44
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As evidenced by my previous post in this thread, I'm still figuring out my tastes and preferences. I've tried and liked several Rioja reds, and I haven't tasted a cabernet blend that I haven't enjoyed yet. I guess I was hoping to get suggestions as well of other varietals that are well priced and benefit from aging. If I try and like it, I would buy more for storing. If I don't like it, hey, it wasn't an expensive wine, right?
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Jul 29, 2019 05:59
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anakha posted:As evidenced by my previous post in this thread, I'm still figuring out my tastes and preferences. I've tried and liked several Rioja reds, and I haven't tasted a cabernet blend that I haven't enjoyed yet. You are in luck, amigo!: Rioja at the Riserva and Gran Riserva levels can be had for not-a-lot of money and age like champs, generally. Even $15-$20 Cabernet / cabernet blends will usually at least hold on for a good couple years, if not necessary improve. As a rule of thumb, though, wines that are less than $20 are unlikely to have the structure to benefit from extended aging. You might have some luck with Portuguese Douro reds - they are generally pretty good price/quality ratio and if you shell out $20+, you have a good chance at getting something that will evolve over 5-7 years.
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Jul 29, 2019 06:15
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idk man, that's one of those "it really depends" questions I think. I just opened some 2011? Herve Villemade Cheverny, think it's Sauv blanc & chard, that I had stuck in the back somewhere. Probably cost like $14 when I got it, and it's crazy good right now. I feel like Loire stuff in general has good qpr for ageable wines, but you can find reasonably priced & ageable wines everywhere - it just might take some looking. You're generally looking for things like strong acidity, strong structure, and at least decent concentration of flavor. You probably do want to focus on old world wines, just because they can do the qpr thing a lot easier than places like California, but there are definitely CA wines that aren't *too* expensive that can benefit from age.
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Jul 29, 2019 07:44
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Not sure if you can get it where you are but Wynn’s Black Label Cab Sav is $33AUD and will go for 15 years quite happily. Similarly some of the non “big name” German riesling kabinetts can be had for small money and will be singing in 2035. It really depends on the wine as others have said.
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Jul 29, 2019 08:12
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Alsatian Pinot Gris can be had in the $20ish dollar range that will be good and evolve over several years. Trimson had a good point on the kabinetts as well. idiotsavant's Loire find reminded me that I overlooked one of my favorites: Vouvray! Those suckers can last decades and you can definitely get a pretty nice one for $20ish.
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Jul 29, 2019 08:41
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Just tried red lambrusco this weekend. Very nice.
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Jul 29, 2019 08:51
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anakha posted:I remember reading somewhere that lower cost wines (I guess this would be everything $20 and below), especially those with screw tops, do not benefit from aging and are meant to be consumed right away. Adding to the above, the rule of thumb is true but it has changed bit. Wine quality in general has gone way up, so many lower cost, screw top wines can still improve with age. And many expensive high end wines are made to be more drinkable early. If you have a good place to store, I wouldn't think twice about storing any wine for 5 years, unless it was natural type wine without sulfites or very cheap supermarket stuff. Any wine you like which has a bit of "stuffing" and structure, i.e. some good concentration of flavor and a balance between fruit and acid, is worth trying to store. If it's something you like a lot, drink often and know very well, you'll be more aware of its changes as it ages. One of the nicest wine surprises I've had was a bottle of Juve y Camps Gran Reserva de la Familia Brut Nature, fairly low cost cava of unknow age which I got from a friend's warm and dry cellar. Really nicely developed, with both freshness and earthy, smokey, mushroomy flavors. A very lucky bottle probably.
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Jul 29, 2019 10:38
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Awesome. Thanks for providing some additional perspective. I was already starting to dip into the rabbit hole of wondering if I needed to get a wine chiller. I'll keep things simple for now and keep figuring out what I really like and go from there.
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Jul 29, 2019 14:13
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The biggest aid you can have to learning more about any facet of wine is a local wine shop that you trust - it really makes a difference. Ideally you find a place that carries a decent variety of styles and that has at least a couple staff with formal education to a level that they can at least help you get started in a focused manner. If not you can still learn pretty well with online resources, just be aware that different wine boards definitely have strong biases for different wines & styles. For learning about aged wines, there are a few easy steps. One is just drinking aged wine. It's location dependent, but it feels like you can find a decent amount of restaurants and wine bars out there that will pour something with age btg fairly frequently, and you can go have a glass of wine that you'd otherwise spend a lot more on. Or share the cost with friends who are interested in learning more about wine. When you're tasting, one bottle goes a pretty long way, and 4 or 5 friends turns an $80 bottle of old Rioja into something a lot more affordable. Another longer term step is to just get some wine and age it. Work with a local place or internet and find a few wines in your price range that you're interested in and seem ageable. Get a mixed case with 3-4 bottles of each wine, and try to open a bottle of each maybe 12-24 months apart. Example, grab 4 bottles of a Muscadet you like, drink one bottle a month or two after you get them and then drink one bottle every 1.5-2 years. Keep in mind that it's ok if one or two of your picks don't age well - it's actually good experience to see how a wine can fall apart with age. Ideally not all of your picks, though! The best way to do this is to have an out-of-the-way place you can store the wine - maybe your parents have a cool basement you can stash it in, or you have a friend with some extra space in their wine locker, etc. Make it easy to forget about and then you don't come home every day thinking about the wine taking up valuable room in your wine fridge, or go through your 3-bottle stash in 8 months because you're constantly wondering if it's changed yet (maybe but not as much as 6 years). This may or may not be a practical step, but it can be a lot easier than you think. Plus it's pretty loving awesome when you're poking through stuff and yank out a 10-year old bottle you took a flier on and it turned into something really neat. re: QPR - I had a George Albrecht Schnieder Niersteiner spatlese a few weeks ago that retails for like $15 and was absolutely bonkers value. Trocken style with a really compelling complexity through just the right level of ripeness. It was a 2015, so not the oldest wine but something with a tiny bit of bottle age. idiotsavant fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 00:00
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Others have mentioned most of the inexpensive whites which will age nicely. I'd add Chablis and Santorini, though the latter is harder and harder to find for $20 or under. Reds are much tougher. Ageworthy, high-quality reds are simply much more expensive than ageworthy, high-quality whites. CleverHans has it right when he says that some will hold, but very few will improve. There will certainly be exceptions, but the only category of reds that I can think of being an almost-universal good bet are Xinomavro-based reds from Greece, particularly from Naoussa. Stylistically, they're very different from California Cabernet though, so there's a good chance they're not to your taste.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:33
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VdP/IGP Syrah from France should age well and be lower cost. Langhe Nebbiolo another one I could think of. I am interested in Xinomavro myself but it's harder to find. Usually I can find it in a blend with international grapes.
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Jul 31, 2019 14:36
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anakha posted:Awesome. Thanks for providing some additional perspective. I was already starting to dip into the rabbit hole of wondering if I needed to get a wine chiller. May I suggest two completely different kinds of wine, both of which will age decades no sweat, cost in the mid-20s, and be enjoyable young and old: i) Riesling Kabinett from the Mosel (try Markus Molitor) and ii) Chinon from the Loire (try Olga Raffault Picasses and Baudry)
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Aug 1, 2019 06:14
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A third category that is horribly unhip these days: Sauternes (try Climens and Doisy Daene). I spent the first 18 months of my wine drinking life consuming Sauternes with just about everything, and this stuff goes well with anything except dessert
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Aug 1, 2019 06:17
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I worked in a French brasserie from when I was 21 til I was 25. Olga Raffault Chinon was the first wine I ever truly loved. Buy some whenever you see it.
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Aug 1, 2019 07:24
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got off on a technicality posted:A third category that is horribly unhip these days: Sauternes (try Climens and Doisy Daene). I spent the first 18 months of my wine drinking life consuming Sauternes with just about everything, and this stuff goes well with anything except dessert This has reminded me I have some nice dessert wine in my fridge and I think it would be lovely to go drink it right now, just because.
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Aug 1, 2019 22:30
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Open question: it ever acceptable to have a wine list strongly tilted to a specific region? Under what circumstances? I’d say it’s perhaps okay if you’re in that region or your cuisine comes from that region, but even so, an excellent wine list should, in my opinion, still offer other choices. If neither of those apply, shoot for balance and quality. I mean, a good wine list in California is less in love with Napa than half the loving places around here.
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Aug 3, 2019 05:53
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I would rather ask, when is it not? Perhaps if you're only serving Argentinians in a restaurant called "Eichmann's Cottage".
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Aug 3, 2019 07:37
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PT6A posted:Open question: it ever acceptable to have a wine list strongly tilted to a specific region? Under what circumstances? It's pretty common in continental Europe outside of the biggest cities in my experience. Eg if you're at a nice restaurant in Italy they'll mostly be serving Italian wines. Same for France. Same for most french/spanish/whatever restaurants I've been to in the UK.
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Aug 3, 2019 09:55
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GTO posted:It's pretty common in continental Europe outside of the biggest cities in my experience. Eg if you're at a nice restaurant in Italy they'll mostly be serving Italian wines. Same for France. I've never seen a good wine list in Spain tilted as far to, say, Rioja specifically, as restaurants around here seem to go for Napa Valley stuff specifically. It's largely Spanish wine, yes, but even the places I've been to in Spain that absolutely refuse to serve non-Spanish wine entirely tend to have representation from diverse regions.
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Aug 3, 2019 14:04
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I'd only expect there to not be a focus on the region the food comes from if I am in a fusion/modern restaurant or wine bar, and even then I'd expect a slight focus on Bordeaux/Burgundy and Italian in the more traditional ones, and Loire/Jura and Spanish in the more hipstery ones.
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Aug 3, 2019 16:30
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PT6A posted:I've never seen a good wine list in Spain tilted as far to, say, Rioja specifically, as restaurants around here seem to go for Napa Valley stuff specifically. It's largely Spanish wine, yes, but even the places I've been to in Spain that absolutely refuse to serve non-Spanish wine entirely tend to have representation from diverse regions. Well that’s a pity. Whereabouts are you referring to? These days, on the west coast, I don’t see that much focus on Napa in most restaurants (unless it’s a steakhouse) Which is a good thing because Napa is so mediocre (even stuff like MacDonald) and so drat expensive these days
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Aug 3, 2019 17:38
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got off on a technicality posted:Well that’s a pity. Whereabouts are you referring to? These days, on the west coast, I don’t see that much focus on Napa in most restaurants (unless it’s a steakhouse) It was indeed a steakhouse, and it’s in Calgary, AB. Of course you need big, bold wines for that kind of thing, so I’d expect some Napa, but the odd thing is that all but two of the Chardonnays on the list, which was not small, were also from Napa, and that’s just a bizarre choice any way I look at it. Even if you really want to go American, there are far better options for Chardonnay than Napa. And Canada has no end of access to great wines from all over the world, doubly so in Alberta. And that’s kind of my point, even Napa/California winelists are not focused that way very often. EDIT: I'd also say focus/expectations is over-rated in a sense. My favourite Italian restaurant in the city has an extensive wine list, and while you'd never go wanting for a good Italian wine of any description, it's probably slightly more French than Italian overall. And if you ask the owner why, he'll give you the same answer he gives if you ask why he serves jamon iberico alongside prosciutto: "because it's good, and proud Italian though I am, I want all the best stuff in my restaurant." PT6A fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Aug 4, 2019 |
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Aug 4, 2019 04:05
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