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Berserkers are the one background that could stand a nerf to be honest.Dee Ehm posted:Frost is still the odd duck remaining, and it feels weird that the cold elemental wand is strictly worse than the fire one. Maybe make it a unqiue effect, single target frozen status versus nonresistant enemies?  And a lot of the MR wands are worse than paralysis/enslavement. It's still useful in the early game when you haven't found a better wand though!
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Jan 30, 2016 03:01
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Arivia posted:So wait, weren't rings of invisibility removed in trunk too? What sources of invisibility does that leave for people without the spell? Just potions? Ugh that sucks. There's also cloaks of invis too, but I'll always swap those out for magic resistance.
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Jan 30, 2016 03:03
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Can Of Worms posted:Berserkers are the one background that could stand a nerf to be honest. How would you even nerf berserkers? All they have over any other background is Trog. They have the lowest tier weapon, no extra item, basically no armour. Their strength comes entirely from berserk.
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Jan 30, 2016 04:38
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move all the abilities up a piety level  bring back corpse sacrifice but sometimes it causes stat loss
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Jan 30, 2016 04:52
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PleasingFungus posted:sure. you won't talk about pak without actually playing him, which makes sense. but you'll happily complain all day about wand removals that you haven't played with! If fireball/lightning were turned into actually useful wands that I wouldn't drop as soon as I found, I would probably feel differently. Dee Ehm posted:How would you even nerf berserkers? All they have over any other background is Trog. They have the lowest tier weapon, no extra item, basically no armour. Their strength comes entirely from berserk. Don't nerf beserkers though LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 06:44
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I've had inventory clutter in 0.17. Its when I've played an evocations character. Its not from wands though, not in the slightest. Its from Nemlex giving you tons of decks and having no way to combine them. So if you wanted to reduce inventory clutter, it would make more sense to go after that. Decks are literally all the benefit you get from Nemlex but carrying them all is a huge pain. But no, remove the thing I've literally never seen anybody complain about instead. EDIT: And seriously, we don't need to play without those wands to know that removing them doesn't improve the game. I've done that before because the game didn't spawn them. It makes dealing with difficult enemies on a weak character much, much harder. Frankly, I don't think the early game needs to be harder! Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 06:51
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yeah Nemelex is pretty bad, in that way just do away with "tiers" of decks since they don't actually matter very much in my experience and merge decks of the same type like "Nemelex gifts you 6 cards of destruction! You shuffle them into your deck." either that or the single "hand" idea from earlier
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Jan 30, 2016 06:55
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The only reason I cried about the wand removal is because I always train evocations and always keep fire/cold/lit/drain/invis/hw/haste/para and every evoker but box of beasts and the earth evoker. The different options are really nice to have since I mainly roll trolls and sometimes rocks don't cut it. But I can learn to manage I guess, I don't mind lightning as much as everyone else seems too, maybe because I try and position so the 2 closest enemies get zapped twice, and I still prefer draining to fire and cold. It still stings to have them removed though... but if the reasoning is inventory clutter, you should remove jerky, pizza or jelly, and meat rations while you're at it. Maybe also make elemental ammo effects stack with launcher brand, or remove/change them. I'd also be ok with blowguns beings replaced with wands of a similar type or even a single rod. Itd be cool because of inventory clutter and it'd be a tiny boost for pekellas since fire and cold are gone. E: and like everyone says change decks to just be cards. I love decks but always give up on using them because clutter. Maybe make all cards stack and be random, but a nemelexite can choose the base type of the card as a * or ** skill. It'd make sense too since cards are a gamble but nem puts the odds in your favor. Less clutter too yknow. Mortimer Knag fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 07:50
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 I'm glad I looked at what this guy was wielding before I went into melee range, this was on d:3
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Jan 30, 2016 10:26
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This is probably a stupid question, but I haven't played Crawl in a while, maybe not since I switched to Windows 10, and the latest offline trunk won't run. It says smartscan doesn't recognize it, blah blah. Can't run it as Admin, either. Is this something common or am I just stupid? Nevermind, I figured it out. BigFactory fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 13:54
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PleasingFungus posted:There's been a slow accumulation over the last, oh, decade or so. New rod types, elemental evokers, box of beasts, sack of spiders, phantom mirror, xompiece... plus adding other things that clutter up your inventory, like turning badpotions into sometimesgoodpotions (lignify, cancellation, ambrosia), the removal of item weight (which makes you more likely to fill up your inventory), etc. As the commit noted, the set of wands has never been changed in DCSS's history - insofar as there were adjustments to be made, one was probably overdue! But evokable clutter has already been dealt with over that same decade. Bottled efreets, the other two crystal balls, tomes of destruction, rods of smiting & striking, and probably some other evokables I forgot about because I never use that poo poo. e: And the new elemental evokables replaced the old ones so they don't count. "Clutter" is a weird way to describe important tools. Are !healwounds clutter? What about your body armour or weapon? I thought clutter was poo poo like the fourth wand of slowing that you found which reminded you to turn off autopickup. Isn't the inventory limit a good thing? At the very least it's a neutral force. With the exception of some bullshit (food types as mentioned is really uninteresting clutter, see also spell books) inventory limits exist to force strategic decisions. Removing viable options to prevent those decisions seems completely backwards. e2: I guess poo poo you would never want to keep and can safely ignore forever like wands of slowing don't really count as inventory clutter (at least, not once you id them and turn off pickups) but that still doesn't mean useful tools are bad clutter. Bad clutter is things you kinda want to have but don't need to carry everywhere and inflate your inventory, like beef jerky and jelly and pizza and meat rations and bread rations and fruits, or enchant armour and enchant weapon and amnesia and cure mut. Darox fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 13:55
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Removing the aforementioned wands has some unfortunate side effects: Fire and cold in particular are very useful since they diversify your bolt attacks to deal with a lot of enemies by targeting their weakness or just avoiding their resistances. This change seems like it limits the wands with 'oomph' to draining and lightning, which is probably fine for Hydras but early demons like a possible Lair:8 branch end would probably leave you lacking in options. I don't like going for multi-zaps with lightning personally, and I don't like its reliability on low-mid evocations, so that really just leaves me with draining, which will be resisted by something nasty early on. You could just be unlucky before and not have any good wands to back you up, but now it would be way more likely since you have less elements to choose from even with better drop rates on other wands. Wand of fireball is OK but it's mostly used for dealing with invisible enemies or if I absolutely need something to not miss. Wand of invisibility in the rotation seems fine, not sure why you would remove it. The weaker elemental wands are pretty "meh" but they can be useful when targeting monster weaknesses early on. TBF I don't think I ever got an use out of magic darts other than it being the "that wand I used to keep to pop spores".
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Jan 30, 2016 20:54
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PleasingFungus posted:There's been a slow accumulation over the last, oh, decade or so. New rod types, elemental evokers, box of beasts, sack of spiders, phantom mirror, xompiece... plus adding other things that clutter up your inventory, like turning badpotions into sometimesgoodpotions (lignify, cancellation, ambrosia), the removal of item weight (which makes you more likely to fill up your inventory), etc. As the commit noted, the set of wands has never been changed in DCSS's history - insofar as there were adjustments to be made, one was probably overdue! Sack of Spiders and Box of Beasts are unlikely to even get used in most of my games. Elemental Evokers are unlikely to significantly help most of my characters out before mid-late game (because they're one shot, so they're not really a viable oh-poo poo strategy). So the thing that gets removed is literally the two most useful non-Holy-Trinity wands. This is a huge deal to any caster who's run out of MP and has his back to a wall or any melee guy who can't handle hydras yet (but maybe can't go deeper into D due to spawns). Some decisions in Crawl development are mixed bags. I've been a fan of most of them, I've always played trunk, but between rMut and this, for once I'm not. The thing this purports to do (reduce inventory clutter) was literally not a problem because people can just not carry the wands if they're not useful, and the thing it actually does is remove an important tool for the early-midgame, making the game harder. LogicNinja fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 21:04
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i really liked those wands but i will put my faith in the wisdom of PleasingFungus
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Jan 30, 2016 21:14
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LogicNinja posted:Sack of Spiders and Box of Beasts are unlikely to even get used in most of my games. Elemental Evokers are unlikely to significantly help most of my characters out before mid-late game (because they're one shot, so they're not really a viable oh-poo poo strategy). Sacks of spiders and boxes of beasts are actually really strong if you are investing in evocations, but yeah they won't help you early on. The elemental evokers can help even a character with zero invocations but they can't be used as often and are also significantly rarer. So the result is that early game characters have less tools and it kind of baffles me that this didn't even come into consideration during the change. "Use your wands" is one of the first pieces of advice you give a player struggling with lair, but now they are far more likely to be in a situation where they don't have any good wands!
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Jan 30, 2016 21:55
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Internet Kraken posted:the result is that early game characters have less tools and it kind of baffles me that this didn't even come into consideration during the change the commit message posted:players inventories are more cluttered (which presents
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Jan 31, 2016 07:45
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Since when is having lots of options to deal with stuff a bad thing. Remove weapons next, that'll help limit tactical options.
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Jan 31, 2016 07:50
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I can see having wands of flame, frost, fire and cold as having 'an excess of tactical options'. 'Excess of uninteresting tactical options' would perhaps be more accurate. It's just a bunch of memorization about which wand goes against which monster, and which ones were the useless ones again. I maintain that consolidating the wands by removing the similar, the borderline useless, and the lesser potion effect replicating wands is a fine idea. The remaining possible problems now are that the borderline useless wand of flame still exists, and that wand of lightning might not be good enough to pull the weight of the removed fire and cold wands.
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Jan 31, 2016 08:47
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Pleasingfungus himself said he didn't think much about difficulty when he made the commit dude. Its pretty silly to claim you have an excess of tactical options during the early game. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 08:55
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lmao if devs think people are ever using lightning wands more. They're utter garbage you only use if you have literally no other options, or have some tactical reason to want the noise. Fireball is more decent since it has perfect accuracy & an AOE that's not just a bolt. Lightning has poo poo accuracy, super high damage variation, and is loud as hell. There's a reason people weren't using it. I do agree that some trimming of items was in order, but I'm not sure this actually helps. As far as bolt wands go, it was generally "keep one of fire/cold/draining with you". Now it's just "keep draining with you". That's not helping inventory clutter so much as floor clutter, and this change was aimed at addressing the former. StoryTime posted:I maintain that consolidating the wands by removing the similar, the borderline useless, and the lesser potion effect replicating wands is a fine idea. The remaining possible problems now are that the borderline useless wand of flame still exists, and that wand of lightning might not be good enough to pull the weight of the removed fire and cold wands. Carcer posted:Since when is having lots of options to deal with stuff a bad thing. Remove weapons next, that'll help limit tactical options.
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Jan 31, 2016 09:08
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Haifisch posted:I feel like flame was kept so there's still a low-level damage wand to give weak enemies. I'm not sure why they picked it instead of magic darts, though. Ah, this makes sense. They probably picked flame just for mummy players  .
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Jan 31, 2016 09:13
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Haifisch posted:I feel like flame was kept so there's still a low-level damage wand to give weak enemies. I'm not sure why they picked it instead of magic darts, though. Artificers start with a wand of flame.
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Jan 31, 2016 09:15
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PleasingFungus posted:Artificers start with a wand of flame. Yeah, in my first post about this I suggested just giving them lightning instead, since it's worse than hitler anyways.
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Jan 31, 2016 09:22
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Anyone else unable to connect to CPO? I'm getting a message that it's reached max connections and it's been like this for hours. Surely it can't actually be fully booked, I never see more than four people at the same time.
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Jan 31, 2016 11:03
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Haifisch posted:I do agree that some trimming of items was in order, but I'm not sure this actually helps. As far as bolt wands go, it was generally "keep one of fire/cold/draining with you". Now it's just "keep draining with you". That's not helping inventory clutter so much as floor clutter, and this change was aimed at addressing the former.
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Jan 31, 2016 12:31
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Haifisch posted:lmao if devs think people are ever using lightning wands more. They're utter garbage you only use if you have literally no other options, or have some tactical reason to want the noise. Fireball is more decent since it has perfect accuracy & an AOE that's not just a bolt. Lightning has poo poo accuracy, super high damage variation, and is loud as hell. There's a reason people weren't using it. Replace the lightning bolt wand with a wand that shoots orbs of lightning, that'll make people use it.
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Jan 31, 2016 13:45
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Or make it work like the lightning rod! Multiple zaps that get stronger when used repeatedly.
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Jan 31, 2016 14:05
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I probably wouldn't be bothered by this change if the wands that still exist were bumped up in power to actually replace the loss of two of the better wands in the game. There's really not all that much reason for why Lightning has such poo poo accuracy, is there, aside from that it was its niche (albeit a really bad one.) Well it's the only thing in its weight class now and could probably be made more worth using.
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Jan 31, 2016 15:26
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Iron giants can no longer throw statues.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:15
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It is worth mentioning that the generation chance for the removed fire and cold wands was redistributed specifically to lightning and draining. Still a nerf considering how godawful lightning bolts are in every single way and how common negative energy immunity gets in endgame and postgame, but worth a mention. Do not play Air Elementalist for exactly this reason, Lightning Bolt is the worst thing to have to rely on as a primary method of offense. the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 18:05
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ZeeToo posted:Iron giants can no longer throw statues. I didn't realize they could, and it sounds terrifying.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:14
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Even more terrifying, they could throw tentacles too!
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Jan 31, 2016 18:31
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As someone who enjoys venom mages and never plays enchanters, I fully approve of the change to Alistair's Intoxication in favor of the (proposed) removal of Mass Confusion. The commit does have a proposal of sort that might accomodate enchanters, but that's outside of my experience and not currently implemented. AI gives Vertigo, instead of self-confusion and stat drain. It can also affect rPois enemies at the same rate as any other source of poison. The spell is a lot more practical now, I had some fun with it. Unfortunately, it continues to work only against humanoids. Maybe increase the rate at which Discord shows up so hexers have that on hand, or substitute it for mass confusion in the books of control/dreams? Outside of Sif Muna, Discord is disappointingly rare anyways. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=6e46bd468f473cdbc4ab50d72caf3263c46f442f
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Jan 31, 2016 22:39
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code:
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Feb 1, 2016 00:12
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Can Of Worms posted:
That's from a Jorge Luis Borges-themed vault, the name "Axaxaxas mlö" is a reference to one of his stories.
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Feb 1, 2016 01:34
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For those who might be interested, there's a new god being tested on cbro: Ukayaw, God of Ecstatic Dance.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:28
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that sounds super dope
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Feb 1, 2016 19:40
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PleasingFungus posted:For those who might be interested, there's a new god being tested on cbro: Ukayaw, God of Ecstatic Dance. ukayaw posted:*****: Telefrag any monster in LOS. ukayaw reasons posted:Tha orc be hit by a flyin' piece o' Saint Roka! 
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Feb 1, 2016 19:46
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my immediate thought is 'it would be cool if the 3-star power was picked from a pool of possible effects instead of just being one'
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Feb 1, 2016 19:47
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 11:01 |
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Brief paralysis just brings to mind "STOP, HAMMER TIME" and I heartily approve.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:54
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