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joat mon posted:What are you doing now? What would you be doing in the AGs office? What do you wish you could do? Right now I represent insurance companies in insurance fraud work. In a nutshell my office investigates doctors who are engaging in fraudulent PIP billing and we sue them under the state's insurance fraud statute to recover the money. It's fairly interesting to me but I don't entirely enjoy the environment of private law practice (I'm no businessman - I don't want to seek out clients and I don't want to deal with billable hours). I also do all my office's arbitration work which basically involves struggling through kangaroo court proceedings without strangling everyone in the room. I've worked for the AG's office in the past as a volunteer (before I got smart enough to not do work for free), so I have a few contacts that liked my work. I also found the people to be more pleasant on the whole than who I deal with on a regular basis. Ideally I'd continue doing fraud or arbitration related work, just in a more tolerable environment and probably for slightly better pay. If I had to do all over again I'd have been in a STEM field instead of throwing my undergraduate away on a liberal arts degree. I've always been into computers and technology but really never developed it outside of a hobby. So at this point what I "wish I could do" would likely require going back to school and playing Russian Roulette with even more student loan debt. I'm not sure it's really an option. Basically I went to law school on the dumbest of premises - that I could enter a profession where I could use advocacy skills to help people. Instead I work to get money for insurance companies, and my only contact with human beings outside my office are corporate types. It isn't where I pictured my life being. So, in the end I suppose I'll just join the chorus in this topic when I say don't go to law school.
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Mar 3, 2014 22:39
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Falcon24 posted:Right now I represent insurance companies in insurance fraud work. In a nutshell my office investigates doctors who are engaging in fraudulent PIP billing and we sue them under the state's insurance fraud statute to recover the money. It's fairly interesting to me but I don't entirely enjoy the environment of private law practice (I'm no businessman - I don't want to seek out clients and I don't want to deal with billable hours). I also do all my office's arbitration work which basically involves struggling through kangaroo court proceedings without strangling everyone in the room. Legal aid sounds good for you. Clients find you; you help people. Dont worry about billables. Con: no money, crazy clients, hard to convince a private firm to hire you (some of the time at least). also, we get to experience the same joy a a public defender and be called "not real lawyers."
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Mar 4, 2014 00:26
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Falcon24 posted:Right now I represent insurance companies in insurance fraud work. In a nutshell my office investigates doctors who are engaging in fraudulent PIP billing and we sue them under the state's insurance fraud statute to recover the money. It's fairly interesting to me but I don't entirely enjoy the environment of private law practice (I'm no businessman - I don't want to seek out clients and I don't want to deal with billable hours). I also do all my office's arbitration work which basically involves struggling through kangaroo court proceedings without strangling everyone in the room. Arbitration is a big part of labor law. Labor unions help people. See if you can work for a labor union or union-side labor law firm. Money is similar to government money, hours are similar to government hours, work feels good and is interesting. Several in-house lawyers I worked with/for at the SEIU's international office last summer had worked at corporate firms doing non-labor-related law for a few years before coming there. And I bet you could make a particularly good case for working for a labor union with members in the medical field, like the SEIU. Knowledge of insurance/benefits law and things like the Affordable Care Act and ERISA is also very desirable in union-side labor law. MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 00:36
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I went from representing insurance companies to (well, back to) the AG's office here, and it was a fantastic move. I like what I do now, and that is even more important than the whole lack of billable hours bonus.
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Mar 4, 2014 00:40
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:
Or, the highest compliment, "as good as a real lawyer"
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Mar 4, 2014 02:10
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Falcon24 posted:Firm What's stopping you from sending feelers out to your contacts at the AG's office?
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Mar 4, 2014 03:30
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Falcon24 posted:Basically I went to law school on the dumbest of premises - that I could enter a profession where I could use advocacy skills to help people. Law schools should require applicants to sign a waiver that they've read that. Admissions would drop zero %  [Now it's all about finding the most tolerable work environment, which may well be the AG. But it won't be what you hope, it will just be less bad]
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Mar 4, 2014 03:49
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I find my desire to help people varies inversely based on the number of pro pers I see in a given day.
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Mar 4, 2014 04:39
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woozle wuzzle posted:Law schools should require applicants to sign a waiver that they've read that. Admissions would drop zero % I feel like law school is 20% people trying to help others, 80% trying to get easy, guaranteed money with no mathematical ability or creativity.
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Mar 4, 2014 05:24
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MoFauxHawk posted:I feel like law school is 20% people trying to help others, 80% trying to get easy, guaranteed money with no mathematical ability or creativity. That's a little unfair. Some attorneys are pretty creative about getting easy money from their clients.
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Mar 4, 2014 06:18
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MoFauxHawk posted:Labor unions help people. 
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Mar 4, 2014 15:52
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Oh man I almost missed that chestnut, thanks HR
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Mar 4, 2014 16:12
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I mean, I guess I can understand why corporate attorneys who've voluntarily given up their right to have weekends wouldn't appreciate the organizations that are responsible for the modern concept of the weekend.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:22
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Thank you all for your advice! I've started putting out feelers to all my contacts. Hopefully I can make a smooth transition to something slightly more palatable.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:10
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A legal assistant that sits outside of my office broke down yesterday and put in his notice. Now he's walking around with a big smile on his face. Still thinks he is going to go to law school though.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:14
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MoFauxHawk posted:...the organizations that are responsible for the modern concept of the weekend. Last time I checked, Henry Ford was a person, not a union. Get your union propaganda out of my unorganized thread.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:17
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HiddenReplaced posted:Last time I checked, Henry Ford was a person, not a union. What is this, Brave New World? Yeesh. Ford help us all.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:30
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outsourcing all of your posts to Malaysia for pennies on the dollar itt
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Mar 4, 2014 20:30
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turns out the malaysian Phil Mousekewitz is also a virgin
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Mar 4, 2014 20:30
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MoFauxHawk posted:I mean, I guess I can understand why corporate attorneys who've voluntarily given up their right to have weekends wouldn't appreciate the organizations that are responsible for the modern concept of the weekend. That's not true at all. We haven't given up our right to have a weekend. Weekends are the days when I work from home in my pajamas.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:32
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I like imagining how poorly lawyers would attempt to unionize. The amount of unemployed ones willing to be scabs would be incredible.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:47
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One of my best friends has just decided that she wants to go to law school and that she's finally found a career she can be excited for. Oh my god. I had this same exact attitude, growing up in a house with a family greatly experienced in law. Right up until my mom lost her job with the State Attorney's office, it was basically everything I had ever dreamed of- I wanted to help people and I enjoyed public speaking, and my grades were pretty good so it seemed like an amazing idea. Then my mom got laid off with literally three days notice and none of my family (including my uncle who was a district court judge) could even loving help her, a woman who had worked for the state for 25 years. She's been unemployed for like 3 years picking up as many cases as she can and teaching law courses at inner city public schools which, hilariously enough, are trying to encourage kids to go to law school. I'm a sophomore in college now and maybe I'll go to law school at some point after my bachelor's, maybe, but if the market stays like this loving forget about it. She has like a 2.2 GPA. Maybe I'm bitter from my own experiences and the fact that I've been told from literally everyone how awful of an idea it is, and the fact that I see no reason to disagree. I just want to tell her how awful it is. For reference, I live in Illinois, where 2,000 people pass the bar exam every year and a ridiculously small percentage of those people have jobs. It's horrible. A cool damn horse fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 22:51
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A cool drat horse posted:maybe I'll go to law school at some point after my bachelor's, maybe, Why is this thought even in the darkest recesses of your mind after all you've seen
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Mar 4, 2014 23:12
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She has a 2.2? She'll fail the LSAT and the only schools she'll get into are TTT's or like Cooley, who'll take anyone so long as they're willing to take on $40k in loan debt every year. Make her look at the full-time paid employment on graduation numbers for the schools she thinks it's feasible to get into, then make her look at where she was in her undergraduate class (sounds like the bottom quartile), and think about the employment numbers for that group from the law schools she thinks she can get into.
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Mar 4, 2014 23:13
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GPAs go down to 2.2?
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Mar 4, 2014 23:35
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mastershakeman posted:I like imagining how poorly lawyers would attempt to unionize. The amount of unemployed ones willing to be scabs would be incredible. I'm actually a unionized lawyer. We have a cba that gives us no right to strike. Basically, we're toothless. Oh, and you don't have to pay dues to get the benefits. But we get to feel good when our benefits get trashed by management!
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Mar 4, 2014 23:56
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Ainsley McTree posted:Why is this thought even in the darkest recesses of your mind after all you've seen Given how subtle this appears in the whole post, I'm beginning to think this is the law thread's version of the Bel-Air meme.
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Mar 5, 2014 00:18
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A cool drat horse posted:She has like a 2.2 GPA.
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Mar 5, 2014 00:19
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A cool drat horse posted:She has like a 2.2 GPA. She will only get into a crap law school, and she will have a crap GPA within that crap law school. It's not like all of a sudden law school only tests wits and thinkin' skills. I was a bum in undergraduate and figured I'd get it together in law school. That doesn't happen, ever. Without good grades and a good school (neither of which she will have), she will not have a job. Period. Her options are then start a solo practice, move to Mexico, or sell her body. My solo practice is doing awesome... but it takes life/business experience prior to law school, a business plan, and like a dozen things to fall magically into place. Plus I'm still prepared to sell my body on the off-ramp in case things go south.
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Mar 5, 2014 00:23
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Yeah, law school is harder than college for sure, but you can still slack like crazy and graduate while doing the minimum. It's once you get out that you can no longer do this and succeed, a reality for which law school does nothing to prepare you
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Mar 5, 2014 00:26
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mastershakeman posted:I like imagining how poorly lawyers would attempt to unionize. The amount of unemployed ones willing to be scabs would be incredible. It's funny because lawyers have one of the oldest existing unions... backed up by the power of the state and able to restrict people from the profession without a hefty $100K down payment.
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Mar 5, 2014 05:23
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How would a lawyer union even work? The bosses would all be union members too.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:07
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Mattavist posted:How would a lawyer union even work? The bosses would all be union members too. A lot of unions are made up of workers who work for other members of their professions. The higher-ups just aren't in the union, they're counted as management. But like the guy before you said, lawyers do have something like a union, it's just a guild. A guild is a variation of a union. MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 06:47
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Mattavist posted:How would a lawyer union even work? The bosses would all be union members too. I'm a member of a union. My bosses are members of a different union. My bosses bosses are at-will. I have 4 weeks and a couple days of vacation (goes to 6) which no one is shocked if I use. I leave near 5 every day (though I work at home if in trial). I have a pension. Once you get tenure, it is hard to fire you at a whim (though not impossible for incompetents). It is loving great, you should all unionize.
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Mar 5, 2014 07:14
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woozle wuzzle posted:
After i took the bar, i did contract work for a ten year solo family law attorney. She also worked at Starbucks 3 nights a week to help pay her bills.
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Mar 5, 2014 14:01
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Today I met with a former partner at a famous Vault <15 law firm which is the undisputed #1 in its significant region. Former, because they are now doing other, presumably less renumerative things, and describe themselves as a "recovering lawyer" professionally. When I said I had been a "near miss," they chuckled darkly and said "you made the right choice - you get to skip the recovery!" Don't go; even success assures you, at best, something you will need to "recover" from. Petey fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 18:59
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Petey posted:Today I met with a former partner at a famous Vault <15 law firm which is the undisputed #1 in its significant region. Former, because they are now doing other, presumably less renumerative things, and describe themselves as a "recovering lawyer" professionally. When I said I had been a "near miss," they chuckled darkly and said "you made the right choice - you get to skip the recovery!" Sounds like he/she learned that success is internally defined, rather than dictated from external sources.
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Mar 5, 2014 19:54
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Petey posted:...a famous Vault <15 law firm which is the undisputed #1 in its significant region. You could have just said Kirkland & Ellis.
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Mar 5, 2014 20:01
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I feel so bad for that multi-mega-millionaire.
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Mar 5, 2014 20:26
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mastershakeman posted:I feel so bad for that multi-mega-millionaire. The temptation is always there to try to hang on for just another year or two. As a junior associate, you want to make some progress on your student loans and build your resume to go in-house somewhere. As a mid/senior associate it's paying down your mortgage or saving for a college fund. As an income partner, you just want to secure enough to retire early and spend more time with your family. As an equity partner it's about making enough money so your children and grandchildren don't have to want for anything. The speed of the treadmill increases so gradually that you don't even realize it's happening, but I imagine no matter what point you step off and come back to reality, it's a pretty big relief.
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Mar 5, 2014 21:23
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