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Atreiden posted:the elder scroll comparison is good, because TES games always starts you of as nameless prisorner who is set on some quest just like DS nameless undead and both games feature recurring items, lore etc. But What I and others don't like about DS3 is it does it with far more than just items and lore tidbits. DS3 have a lot of areas that are more or less directly lifted from DS1, to do a fanservice thing. After the tutorial you go to a castle zone with a dragon on a bridge -remember this from ds1! then you go to an undead settlement - remember this from DS1. Then you go in to a building, in its basement is a recurring miniboss in a room with pillars, that leads to the forrest road, this time it's an outrider knight, in DS1 it was a titanite demon. After going down the road you come to some open forrest area, where a pvp covenant guards the area - instead of joining it by talking to a cat, you no pray to a wolf that sleeps in front of Artorias grave - remember that forrest area from DS1, now it's a swamp and the cat is gone also instead of big cats guarding items, we now have big crabs. And it just goes on and on with these overly fanservice areas. The dragon on a bridge in a castle is a Demon's Souls reference in DS1, and it's even more of one in DS3, given how Lothric is basically Boletaria HD Remake (see also: double dragons in Lothric Castle later on). That doesn't make it any less of a reference, but it was already a reference in the game you're pointing to. Some of these references are sort of reaching, too. I kinda feel like "monster guarding a gate" isn't necessarily a reference to anything. If it was literally a Titanite Demon and not an Outrider Knight, I might be there with you, but I think that one's kind of a reach. The same goes for the "big crabs in the swamp = big cats in the forest" connection. I also only count two demon enemies, only one of which is a boss: OId Demon King and the burnt-out Stray Demon on the broken bridge. Which two am I missing? Even then, though, I think it's less that "Miyazaki wants everything to be a Dark Souls 1 reference" and more "Miyazaki basically made Demon's Souls three times." And I generally think that the really big callbacks are earned and are a good thing in a game that's the last of a series, especially when that series is explicitly about cycles--yes, even Andre. Out of curiosity, what's your opinion of Soul of Cinder?
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May 19, 2016 14:15
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RanKizama posted:I hear the Dark Souls manga is better than the anime and if you disagree then you're bad and not a real fan. Is this true? 
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May 19, 2016 14:15
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  Why is his crest directly looking at her! Get this fake Solaire poo poo outta here!
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May 19, 2016 14:20
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Harrow posted:The dragon on a bridge in a castle is a Demon's Souls reference in DS1, and it's even more of one in DS3, given how Lothric is basically Boletaria HD Remake (see also: double dragons in Lothric Castle later on). That doesn't make it any less of a reference, but it was already a reference in the game you're pointing to. I never played Demon souls or bloodborne, so i'll take your word for it. And yeah giant crabs was more me venting, but it just came out in my rant. You forget the fire demon you fight with Siegward and the Fire Demon in Catacombs. I think Soul of Cinder was a great boss and fitted well as the ending of the series. I also think Anor Londo fitted well and had some good lore for being where it was and looking like it did. I'm not against callbacks, for me especially the starting layout of the game just felt very much like let's do DS1 layout again rather than something completely different.
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May 19, 2016 14:23
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Atreiden posted:I never played Demon souls or bloodborne, so i'll take your word for it. And yeah giant crabs was more me venting, but it just came out in my rant. You forget the fire demon you fight with Siegward and the Fire Demon in Catacombs. Ah, yep, I did forget those demons. I guess I didn't really see the starting layout being a big DS1 callback because I saw Lothric as a huge Demon's Souls callback and never really snapped back into DS1 mode. And I think that, while the progression of area types is roughly similar, the areas themselves are meaningfully different. Undead Settlement doesn't actually come off anything like Undead Burg--if anything, it feels like an area they cut from Bloodborne for having too much sunlight. I definitely did roll my eyes when I got to Farron Keep and it was another loving poison swamp, but at this point that's been in literally every game in the series (Bloodborne's, thankfully, is small and in an entirely optional area). But looking at it from that perspective, I can see what you mean. I think that's sort of what EpicNameBro was taking some flack for early in his current LP, too, and he also appreciates the bigger callbacks like Anor Londo and Soul of Cinder. So I think I agree: the big callbacks feel more earned than the little ones, and while Soul of Cinder is definitely fanservice, it's earned and very satisfying. Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:32 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 14:28
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I've gotten zero hate mail so far so maybe ds2 IS the better game
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May 19, 2016 14:32
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Atreiden posted:I think Soul of Cinder was a great boss and fitted well as the ending of the series. I also think Anor Londo fitted well and had some good lore for being where it was and looking like it did. I'm not against callbacks, for me especially the starting layout of the game just felt very much like let's do DS1 layout again rather than something completely different. Atreiden posted:haha sorry I don't like DS3 having almost the exact same progression as DS1, in terms of layouts, with a poo poo load of callbacks.  I'm callin you out dude Also, I think your comparison of the starting areas is baseless, and you're reaching. Yeah, there's a dragon. Dragons rule. It's also not quite the same as DS1, since it's a central tower rather than a blocked-off bridge. The rest of the area plays differently: no firebomb-throwing enemies, the basic knights handle MUCH differently, Pus of Man lurking, more ambushes by rallying hollows with lanterns... It sounds like you started out being bothered by the callbacks, then extended that to the layout for some reason to justify it, and now you've backed off the callouts. Plus, I think attacking the level layout itself is already a losing proposition, because aside from the festering pit that is the labyrinth of Smouldering Lake, DS3 overall has incredibly good level design, of course I want more of that poo poo hell yeah
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May 19, 2016 14:33
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And what's with these loving elevators and shortcuts just like in ds1? loving fan service, I can't take it
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May 19, 2016 14:36
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Monomythian posted:Version 1.07 Main Adjustments: I wonder if they fixed the autoinvade covenants?
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May 19, 2016 14:36
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Sloppy Milkshake posted:And what's with these loving elevators and shortcuts just like in ds1? loving fan service, I can't take it Don't get me started on the use of ladders, what a bunch of hacks!
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May 19, 2016 14:39
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Torquemadras posted:
That's fair enough, I guess I have a hard time explaining myself, but I think some callbacks are well done while others seems hamfisted, obviously this is a very subjective. It's also not so much the levels themself I think are badly the designed, I think most levels in the game are great, it's much more the order they come in that rubs me wrong.
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May 19, 2016 14:43
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Grapplejack posted:I wonder if they fixed the autoinvade covenants? By the way, is that a general problem for all auto-invade covenants? When I tried Aldrich Faithful and Wolfdudes, I basically got non-stop summons - I had to take off the covenant item to even have enough time to climb the ladder from the deacon's pit. And it still works for me, even at SL120. Only BluesBrothers and Darkmoons fail for me, both of them combined worked three times over 50+ hours. They should give Darkmoons summoning signs too. Not sure how it could work - maybe a BlueBro sign appears in a world, and you can summon them normally; having a BlueBro increases chance of invasion more than SunBro / normal phantom; and they disappear at the boss door instead. And when somebody invades, the summoning signs already existing in your world automatically teleport to the player's location, or something. Just an idea, because summon signs always seem to work flawlessly for me...
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May 19, 2016 14:45
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The best fanservice is the silver knight scoping out the pic of noted hot babe Gwynevere.
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May 19, 2016 14:47
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DatonKallandor posted:They won't fix poise because they've been called out on a mistake, and it's standard Japanese developer response to deny-deny-deny. They can't acknowledge that they were wrong, or worse - lying, now. It's the exact same situation as the DS2 durability bug (which was also "working as intended"). Oh well. Someday they'll rethink it and fix it.
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May 19, 2016 14:49
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I can't believe they used souls as experience three times. Am I doing this right?
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May 19, 2016 14:50
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Atreiden posted:That's fair enough, I guess I have a hard time explaining myself, but I think some callbacks are well done while others seems hamfisted, obviously this is a very subjective. THAT, I can understand much better! I agree that some callbacks are hamfisted, we might obviously disagree. Siegward, for example. I love the dude, his whole quest is amazing (I actually freed him from his cell too late, so I didn't get him to join for Yhorm; which made his quite death there sadder for me, somehow  ), but I dislike that he looks and sounds so similar to Siegmeyer. I would've preferred if he were a little more distinct. Maybe different mannerisms, or a little different armor - just enough to make it obvious he's from Catarina, but still distinct from Siegmeyer. That was a little too on-the-nose for me. In any case, I think that the game does its callbacks very well most of the time, and they're complimented by some nice subversions (Eygon is a dick, but he isn't murderous, and he genuinely protects his firekeeper! Hahaha) and, of course, exceptional design. You might disagree for another From legacy, the poison swamp, but I kinda liked those in all Souls games, I guess I'm just brokenNot sure what you mean by order, I think that's pretty much been the basic model of every Souls game so far...
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May 19, 2016 14:53
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I can't believe they just renamed Siegmeyer and put him back in DS3!
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May 19, 2016 14:53
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Torquemadras posted:THAT, I can understand much better! I agree that some callbacks are hamfisted, we might obviously disagree. Siegward, for example. I love the dude, his whole quest is amazing (I actually freed him from his cell too late, so I didn't get him to join for Yhorm; which made his quite death there sadder for me, somehow We actually agree here. I love Siegward, he has a great questline (with a few horrible triggers) and I also wish he wasn't that much like Siegmeyer. But I think From did some great things with the questline and the small hints that Siegward is a fairly forgetful warrior of sunlight. I also think DS3 overall had the best NPC questlines story wise, but some of the triggers are really bad (especially Sirris before it got patched) For me the order thing is, you go castle -> Undead town -> forrest where Oolacile used to be, with pvp covenant and some of the transitions from the areas. But I think, my possibly harsh critique of that is also colored by me finding the game feeling a lot more linear than DS1 and DS2. I like undead settlement as level and thinks it's well designed though, same with Farron keep itself and I'm glad we got over the mandatory poison area early (and that poison really wasn't a problem).
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May 19, 2016 15:04
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The callbacks only suck when they start getting half assed. The first capra demon corpse i saw was a neat nod. Seeing it again copy pasted in the exact same position later on wasnt.
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May 19, 2016 15:06
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Torquemadras posted:By the way, is that a general problem for all auto-invade covenants? When I tried Aldrich Faithful and Wolfdudes, I basically got non-stop summons - I had to take off the covenant item to even have enough time to climb the ladder from the deacon's pit. And it still works for me, even at SL120. Only BluesBrothers and Darkmoons fail for me, both of them combined worked three times over 50+ hours. I've been toggling between aldrich and wolf covenants for the 60+ hours i've been playing and i've only been summoned once as aldrich and zero times as a watchdog 
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May 19, 2016 15:07
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Tengames posted:The callbacks only suck when they start getting half assed. The first capra demon corpse i saw was a neat nod. Seeing it again copy pasted in the exact same position later on wasnt. Really? I figured the copy + pasted Capra corpses were part of the joke, along with the retextured chalice dungeon tiles. The whole of DS3's Demon Ruins works for me as a meta-joke about some of From's more... energy-conserving level design decisions.
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May 19, 2016 15:12
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I haven't really explored Smouldering Lake but they are supposed to be the remnants of the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith, right? I could believe copy/pasted Capra corpses are a nod at how lazy the enemy placement for those areas were.
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May 19, 2016 15:14
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This could have been a good game if you fought anthropomorphic furniture with geometric shapes in space, but instead you fight dragons with swords in a castle... AGAIN. Why can't From Software make the game that I want to play?  Seriously though, if you're offended by callbacks I suggest that you never watch any movie sequel or play any game sequel lest your delicate sensibilities come unraveled.
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May 19, 2016 15:14
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I just started using the demon greataxe, which is the first really big weapon I've used, and I noticed that if I slam it into the ground close to an enemy but I miss them, it will often stagger them a little bit. That's new in this game, right? I don't remember that from the previous games, and I've used a lot of great hammers and UGS's
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May 19, 2016 15:18
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YancyQ posted:Seriously though, if you're offended by callbacks I suggest that you never watch any movie sequel or play any game sequel lest your delicate sensibilities come unraveled. I mean, in the most recent discussion about this, we all seem to agree that the big callbacks are really cool, including Soul of Cinder, otherwise known as "Blatant Fanservice: The Boss." Some of it is really well executed. Atreiden, and a few others, just found the first parts of the game and some of the area transitions and smaller callbacks to be too familiar, which I can understand as a criticism given how much of the enjoyment of a first playthrough of these games comes from the ways they can surprise you. I didn't feel that way myself, largely because I was all starry-eyed from the Demon's Souls references and/or the fact that Lothric is basically a remake of Boletaria, but I can understand someone having that impression.
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May 19, 2016 15:27
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NGDBSS posted:They reintroduced the effects in Scholar because they could get away with needing more processing power on the PS4 and XBox One. SOTFS has some additional post-processing and some areas are darker, it does not have the lighting system shown in the early DS2 trailers. Internet Kraken posted:Leonhardt is the obvious Lautrec wannabe but who else is? They probably mean Eygon - Carim knight with sexy voice who worships one woman. Monomythian posted:Version 1.07 Main Adjustments: MrLonghair posted:- Sorcery FP consumption adjusted (most likely upwards because it's so cheap compared to pyro)  Sometimes I'm not angry when I think about sorcery. Sometimes.e: Actually what is a "partial attack" and "partial weapon" - second one might be paired weapons/Gotthards gudswords?
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May 19, 2016 15:39
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ChaosArgate posted:I haven't really explored Smouldering Lake but they are supposed to be the remnants of the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith, right? I could believe copy/pasted Capra corpses are a nod at how lazy the enemy placement for those areas were. I don't think it's a meta joke, it's a straight up chance to show the Demon apocalypse that happened pre-Dark Souls 1 that we never got see the consequences of. Fields of Demon Corpses stacked higher than houses hammers home just how hardcore the Black Knights were. It was the last big historical event that they hadn't shown the player yet (since you get to time-travel to Gwynn-vs-Dragons times in DS2). Golden Goat posted:Oh well. Someday they'll rethink it and fix it. Yeah if they do fix it, it'll be in a remaster Scholar of the First Sin style, since then they can claim it was always working as intended but now they changed their mind (that's also what it took for durability bug).
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May 19, 2016 15:58
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DatonKallandor posted:I don't think it's a meta joke, it's a straight up chance to show the Demon apocalypse that happened pre-Dark Souls 1 that we never got see the consequences of. Fields of Demon Corpses stacked higher than houses hammers home just how hardcore the Black Knights were. It was the last big historical event that they hadn't shown the player yet (since you get to time-travel to Gwynn-vs-Dragons times in DS2). It's also really interesting how the BKs survived and the entire demon population was culled down to a paltry 4 that lost their fire and in the process of dying on their own anyways..
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May 19, 2016 16:01
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mastershakeman posted:I didn't give a poo poo about the npcs, whether helpful or invaders, in de/1/2 but did do all the quests in this one using a walkthrough. Is there a breakdown somewhere of who carries over between games? I regret not doing this myself. I checked out the wiki on a whim right after having to jam a sword through Anri's face and the first thing that came to mind was "how the gently caress could anyone figure any of this out themselves" when the guide mentioned that I had to kill a pilgrim that was hiding with the chameleon spell between a bunch of statues by the Yorshka bonfire. I noticed some player signs around there the first time, but I just blew them off as being utter nonsense (as player signs usually are) ulvir fucked around with this message at 16:06 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 16:04
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You don't "have to" do anything and killing the assassin means you get locked out of the second-best ending. The best ending being the one where you step on the Firekeeper's head.
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May 19, 2016 16:14
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There's no way to bust open the floor in Smouldering Lake without the ballista, is there? I gave up trying items and just ran through the dungeons eventually. The bonfire down there isn't good for much except getting Toxic Mist etc. but then, that's why I was even there!
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May 19, 2016 16:18
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Ballista seems like the only way for that. Has anybody here actually taken on the worm without hiding behind that one rock and having the ballista take care of it?
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May 19, 2016 16:27
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Monomythian posted:Version 1.07 Main Adjustments: I really hope the bolded adjustments were upwards because Dark Drift and Washing Pole both have higher stat requirements with worse scaling than babby's first Uchigatana. The MGS is not nearly damaging enough in a sorceror's hands compared to a crystal longsword/dark sword/rear end, particularly considering its absurd weight and the slow GS moveset.
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May 19, 2016 16:32
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Golden Goat posted:Ballista seems like the only way for that. I killed it with my longsword and time. It's actually ridiculously easy once you realise that it follows the exact same moves in the exact same positions without deviation.
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May 19, 2016 16:32
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Golden Goat posted:Ballista seems like the only way for that. On my first character I turned off the ballista before ever messing with the worm, so I stood on that ledge next to it where someone helpfully left a 'Sniper spot' note and peppered it with spells and arrows until it died. The most annoying part was how schizophrenic the health bar display for it was. Sometimes you'd see the bar and damage numbers on the segment you hit, but more often they would appear on part of it that was underground.
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May 19, 2016 16:35
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Golden Goat posted:Ballista seems like the only way for that. Yes. The worm literally cannot move out of set spaces and none of its attacks hit directly next to it. So you just stand there and poke it to death while it ineffectually barfs lightning at nothing. 
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May 19, 2016 16:35
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Chard posted:There's no way to bust open the floor in Smouldering Lake without the ballista, is there? I gave up trying items and just ran through the dungeons eventually. The bonfire down there isn't good for much except getting Toxic Mist etc. but then, that's why I was even there! In DS2 that sort of thing was breakable by a firebomb/black firebomb but I didn't really think about that until right now so I'm not sure if that actually works.
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May 19, 2016 16:35
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nominal posted:In DS2 that sort of thing was breakable by a firebomb/black firebomb but I didn't really think about that until right now so I'm not sure if that actually works. I've tried it and wasn't able to break it. Ballista seems to be the only way.
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May 19, 2016 16:37
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nominal posted:In DS2 that sort of thing was breakable by a firebomb/black firebomb but I didn't really think about that until right now so I'm not sure if that actually works. I thought that in cases with DS2 it wasn't your firebomb it was the oil barrels that were actually set off because of your firebombs. Hence why you could also use a fire longsword or arrows/bolts to do it.
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May 19, 2016 16:45
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Internet Kraken posted:Yes. The worm literally cannot move out of set spaces and none of its attacks hit directly next to it. So you just stand there and poke it to death while it ineffectually barfs lightning at nothing. I'm glad that the brought back the hydra from dark souls 1 lightning worm and the turret dragons that're visiting from boletaria are probably good friends
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