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Motronic posted:Kohler is pretty mid market quality to be honest. If you're going to be paying those prices anyway might as well look at Rohl and Newport Brass, etc. Their support for the plumbing dealer channel stuff is pretty fabulous though. I've had two issues over my ownership duration-- one with a kitchen sink sprayhead, and one with a bathroom faucet valve and both times I got necessary parts 2-day'd for free. Maybe Rohl or Newport are just as good.
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Jan 21, 2020 19:36
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Motronic posted:Kohler is pretty mid market quality to be honest. If you're going to be paying those prices anyway might as well look at Rohl and Newport Brass, etc. Personally, Grohe or Hansgrohe for plumbing. As you've stated, Newport Brass + Rohl are in the same luxury category as well. Part of the truth is that the reason for paying more for plumbing trims/fixtures is that they last longer without replacement. I think in the last 6 years, all four of these companies switched to being produced in China, so who knows. Kohler is bad for plumbing, and good for Porcelain. But then again, I personally like Toto porcelain better. Also, on all plumbing trims, if you aren't getting a minimum 40% discount off MSRP, you are overpaying.
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Jan 21, 2020 20:09
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ntan1 posted:Personally, Grohe or Hansgrohe for plumbing. What's the deal with plumbing MSRPs? A Moen faucet that goes for $190 all day every day at Lowe's is listed at $538 MSRP on Moen's website. Is that some weirdness so installers can charge MSRP when they're buying it for something much less than that?
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Jan 21, 2020 20:18
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ntan1 posted:I think in the last 6 years, all four of these companies switched to being produced in China, so who knows. Just just bought a Rohl kitchen faucet and it was absolutely manufactured in the UK. Newport brass still manufactured in California as far as I know. ntan1 posted:Also, on all plumbing trims, if you aren't getting a minimum 40% discount off MSRP, you are overpaying. Word. I don't even have to negotiate over that kind of thing since I use my long-time contractor buddy's business accounts when I'm ordering. The plumbing supply places, at least around here, don't even pretend that MSRP is realistic. canyoneer posted:What's the deal with plumbing MSRPs? A Moen faucet that goes for $190 all day every day at Lowe's is listed at $538 MSRP on Moen's website. It's to obfuscate the actual price contractors are paying so they can mark up and still make it look like they are giving their customer "a deal".
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Jan 21, 2020 20:26
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ntan1 posted:Personally, Grohe or Hansgrohe for plumbing. Depends a lot on which of their products it is. Their products are a mix of Portugal, Germany, China and Taiwan, with obviously the cheaper models being usually China or Taiwan, and the more upscale stuff being Portugal or Germany. Motronic posted:It's to obfuscate the actual price contractors are paying so they can mark up and still make it look like they are giving their customer "a deal". At least around here, the plumbing upcharges are loving absurd, we're talking contractors that don't bat an eye at charging $2200 for two hours of work and a handful of cheap fittings.
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Jan 21, 2020 20:41
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PainterofCrap posted:I don't know. They made a toilet that couldn't flush worth poo poo, let alone poo poo (the Cimmaron), so: aside from (manual) faucets, I'm casting a skeptical eye. I had to replace a Kohler toilet on Sunday, specifically because it would get clogged with poo poo at the corner right above the flange. What loving clown puts a right angle in a toilet drain that catches turds, let alone a second right angle immediately before the corner that catches poo poo so that you can't reach it with a toilet snake?
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Jan 21, 2020 20:46
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Kohler has a factory in Wisconsin where they also have an art museum, resort, and an excellent and well-regarded artist-in-residency program that hosts ceramic and metal artists (my wife landed a residency a few years ago and had a very good experience). They also make generators. They also have factories in I think Mexico and overseas where most of the consumer-grade stuff is made, they mostly make high-end ones at the Wisconsin facility. Given that their high-end business is more focused on serving the market of high-end designers making fancy bathrooms and kitchens for rich people, I can absolutely believe that they have produced some designs that just don't function well. That said, at least their US-based employees are union, well-paid, and well-treated, and the facility is worth a visit for a tour if you're ever in the vicinity of Sheboygan, WI. Watching the foundry churn out whole cast iron bathtubs is kind of amazing.
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Jan 21, 2020 21:06
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canyoneer posted:What's the deal with plumbing MSRPs? A Moen faucet that goes for $190 all day every day at Lowe's is listed at $538 MSRP on Moen's website. Retailers like Lowe's are big enough to demand price points, and the manufacturers meet those price points by making a lower-quality product with a lot of cut corners. Could be quality of parts, could be what they include, could be the length or comprehensiveness of the warranty, but corners will be cut. The website MSRP is marked up a lot, don't get me wrong, but that's because they'd prefer you buy from a reseller, but the $190 faucet and the $538 faucet aren't the same faucet, even if they're aesthetically identical.
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Jan 21, 2020 21:16
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It's actually exactly what Motronic said - the 40% off isn't even negotiated. It's so that a random shopper can get scammed when they see 20% off or 30% off and think it's a deal. It's also for brand. EG: A company like Porcelenosa needs to charge $13/sqft tile to keep in line with the luxury brand and cannot outwardly drop the price. But tile manufacturing has become optimized that really you should be getting that tile for $6/sqft. They're not even really necessarily cutting corners. Somebody gets the cut, and it's either Home Depot/Lowes, the contractor, or you. It's just that certain regions in the US are completely priced out (like SF bay area), so they will immediately tell you the 40% off price, because they know you might already do shopping elsewhere and see that price.
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Jan 21, 2020 22:13
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canyoneer posted:What's the deal with plumbing MSRPs? A Moen faucet that goes for $190 all day every day at Lowe's is listed at $538 MSRP on Moen's website. "I'll give you 50% off fixtures we install!" And they still make some juice on it. Everyone does this for all supplies - Car parts, Materials, Plumbing, Electrical, Computers / Networking gear, etc. That being said, make sure the SKU / Part Number is exactly identical. If it says "-HD" at the end of an otherwise identical part then you're getting something made to a price point: Plastik posted:Retailers like Lowe's are big enough to demand price points, and the manufacturers meet those price points by making a lower-quality product with a lot of cut corners. Could be quality of parts, could be what they include, could be the length or comprehensiveness of the warranty, but corners will be cut. Even if they're exactly identical, it could be all the stuff that's at the low end of the QA spectrum.
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Jan 21, 2020 22:14
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BraveUlysses posted:kohler is expensive but have you ever looked at restoration hardware prices? lmao For that price, you could probably get an actual faucet from a "Premiere European Hotel" rather than one just reminiscent of it.
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Jan 21, 2020 22:40
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PainterofCrap posted:I don't know. They made a toilet that couldn't flush worth poo poo, let alone poo poo (the Cimmaron), so: aside from (manual) faucets, I'm casting a skeptical eye. This post and subsequent replies along the same lines are completely baffling to me. I have used a total of four Kohler Cimmaron (round not oblong FWIW) in both my current and previous homes. I have never had them clog, fail to flush completely, or require any parts /maintenance over about a 6 and 4 year period, respectively. I bought them at Home Depot, so by all normal standards they are the absolute dogshit garbage tier of any Kohler product I should be able to purchase...  The only thing I can think of is whether people are aware that the flush mechanism puts out more water per flush (up to the capacity of the tank) the longer it is held down. So for those king-sized dumps, hold it down for few seconds and it will drop the entire tank.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:29
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It can depend on region. EG: CA has very strong restrictions on GPM for toilets as well, so a lot of kohlers would clog because of those water requirements. Accordingly, because of those water restrictions, Kohler had to make CA-specific toilets.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:40
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He got me my own account, I'm ready to get really salty about plumbing, and help with whatever you guys need. Rohl is super expensive, and their customer service is poo poo. They don't stand behind the product and will run you ragged trying to get a stupid warranty replacement. Newport Brass is worth the money, their internal construction is all ceramic, no matter what tier you purchase. They also haven't changed their shower valves in like 20+ years, so that means you can change your fixtures in your shower whenever to whatever you want of their collections. Kohler makes me so angry I want to throw things. Don't do it. Just don't. Toto is king of the shitters and worth the money.
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Jan 22, 2020 01:19
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Salty Bitch posted:He got me my own account, I'm ready to get really salty about plumbing, and help with whatever you guys need. This is excellent information. I also feel like you stole the account name Drunk Nerds' wife should have. (this won't make sense unless you read his thread in GBS).
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Jan 22, 2020 01:33
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Salty Bitch posted:Rohl is super expensive, and their customer service is poo poo. They don't stand behind the product and will run you ragged trying to get a stupid warranty replacement. lol, as I wait for my now 3 months out of stock $300 soap dispenser for the second kitchen faucet (first one came in damaged because they didn't bother to pack the sprayer weight properly so it was running around inside of the box dinging everything). I didn't want to actually buy a Rohl, but my wife really liked it so.............I'm really enjoying the $250 air switch for the garbage disposal. It's so much better matched than the $40 one from home depot.
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Jan 22, 2020 02:00
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Salty Bitch posted:
this feels like a story (or 10) 
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Jan 22, 2020 02:12
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Salty Bitch posted:Kohler makes me so angry I want to throw things. Don't do it. Just don't. What about Kohler ceramic bathtubs (not plumbing)?
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Jan 22, 2020 02:24
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ntan1 posted:What about Kohler ceramic bathtubs (not plumbing)? Do you have a sku or a link? I can tell you specifically.
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Jan 22, 2020 03:12
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If you're going to go super bougie, go Waterstone. Its my loving dream plumbing. Their products are amazing, and customer service is bar none. Like literally their faucets are hurricane rated up to a category 2, send those fuckers through a hurricane and they'll replace it. Waterstone for loving ever.
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Jan 22, 2020 03:16
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So if I just go to Menards and buy the $105 toilet am I literally human garbage then ooorrrrrr
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Jan 22, 2020 03:18
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Qwijib0 posted:this feels like a story (or 10) Ugh. You asked for this. I hate Kohler more than plumbing/fixture company. Please be aware that they have several different tiers of products that they sell with the same name at different retailers that are IN NO WAY THE SAME PRODUCT. The poo poo you get at home depot/costco/weekend warrior store is going to be absolute poo poo. The interior construction is going to be plastic, the toilet will be held together with hopes and dreams. Like yeah it's a good deal, and there's a warranty.... Good luck getting that warranty if you need it. Their customer service is awful. loving awful. All of those poor people get the poo poo kicked out of them all day long. So no they dont give a poo poo about your experiece. I have the regional managers email and phone and getting them to do anything even on the high tier end of their product is like pulling teeth. Backlogs? They have so many loving backlogs they cant get their poo poo together if they tried. They had a fire in their cast iron factory 3 years ago. 3 years. It'll still take you 90-120 days to get that farm sink you want so much and that bitch will still scratch when you drop something in it for the first time because they don't fully coat the porcelain layover. Okay. Imma stop there for now. I need a whiskey.
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Jan 22, 2020 03:26
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Tiny Lowtax posted:So if I just go to Menards and buy the $105 toilet am I literally human garbage then ooorrrrrr No way dude. Just be ready to replace or repair that poo poo regularly. Go with American Standard for a good shitter. Go with the Champion or the Drake series.
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Jan 22, 2020 03:28
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Super Soaker Party! posted:I also feel like you stole the account name Drunk Nerds' wife should have. She's been following his thread for months over my shoulder, and I doubt a real, actual lawyer would join the forums, identify herself, and actually post. By all means, if Drunk Nerds so much as asks I'll donate to the Spine Fund and change her name, but for now it's a top notch forums name. E: She's been following this thread too, and the interior design thread (she hates the fuckin' bathroom, but not as much as most). I've been thinking about getting her account for ages, but she got #realmad about the plumbing posts recently and likes going on TED talks about it, so today was the day. Shit Fuckasaurus fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 03:44
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Tiny Lowtax posted:So if I just go to Menards and buy the $105 toilet am I literally human garbage then ooorrrrrr making GBS threads in a bucket and tossing it out your window is still honest.
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Jan 22, 2020 03:55
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Chunderbucket posted:making GBS threads in a bucket and tossing it out your window is still honest. I prefer pissing through a hole in my hardwood floor and into the crawlspace where my dogs sleep.
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Jan 22, 2020 04:03
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This is all incredibly timely. Sent back the contract for 2x major bathroom remodels an hour ago and am looking at fixtures now.
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Jan 22, 2020 04:03
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H110Hawk posted:This is all incredibly timely. Sent back the contract for 2x major bathroom remodels an hour ago and am looking at fixtures now. Lemme know if you have any questions on plumbing, lighting or appliances I'll be more than happy to help.
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Jan 22, 2020 04:08
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Salty Bitch posted:If you're going to go super bougie, go Waterstone. Its my loving dream plumbing. Their products are amazing, and customer service is bar none. Like literally their faucets are hurricane rated up to a category 2, send those fuckers through a hurricane and they'll replace it. Waterstone for loving ever. Ahh, yes. I saw their steampunk line when I was looking for kitchen fixtures. 
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Jan 22, 2020 04:19
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Motronic posted:Ahh, yes. I saw their steampunk line when I was looking for kitchen fixtures. good god
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Jan 22, 2020 04:26
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hitze posted:good god
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Jan 22, 2020 04:34
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Motronic posted:Ahh, yes. I saw their steampunk line when I was looking for kitchen fixtures. And my beard grew three sizes that day. (content) I threw out my Kohler Cimmaron after 5-years of holding the handle & installed a Gerber Avalanche on the recommendatuion of a goon. Never looked back. When you flush it, you can feel the water slamming through the trap reverberating in the tile floor. Awesome. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 04:35
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Motronic posted:Ahh, yes. I saw their steampunk line when I was looking for kitchen fixtures. P...post the toilet, coward.
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Jan 22, 2020 04:43
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I live in Wisconsin and everything in my house is Koehler. Good times. Sigh.
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Jan 22, 2020 04:47
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Salty Bitch posted:Ugh. You asked for this. Whisky/whiskey thread is over in Goons with Spoons. Not doubting your ranting, because ordering a replacement shower valve part myself sucked, but calling Kohler's customer service was pleasant and helpful. I tried to get it myself, and they versioned the part, but still had it in house. New version was worse than the corroded original one. Not there original homeowner (house was built in the 90s), but they gave me a decent discount. I mean, I wasn't an rear end, or demanding, so that was probably appreciated on their end. Maybe I'm just lucky!
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Jan 22, 2020 04:49
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Motronic posted:Ahh, yes. I saw their steampunk line when I was looking for kitchen fixtures. I want the shower valve to be a free spinning wheel that I constantly have to hold and adjust, like a real helmsman.
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Jan 22, 2020 04:52
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Spring Heeled Jack posted:I want the shower valve to be a free spinning wheel that I constantly have to hold and adjust, like a real helmsman. For $4k I sure hope it's fun to use
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Jan 22, 2020 04:57
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Facebook Aunt posted:P...post the toilet, coward.  fortunately it's just a rendering, not real this one is real though  (well, it might be)
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Jan 22, 2020 05:22
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Nenonen posted:this one is real though Can confirm that's real. I've seen one sold through my office in the last two years.
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Jan 22, 2020 05:26
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canyoneer posted:For $4k I sure hope it's fun to use MSRP on that set is $5200.
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Jan 22, 2020 05:35
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