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The worst part is when the citizens demanding that you tear down the nuke plants. are Tycoons. Like. Da fuq. THIS IS YOUR GUYS' THING. Edit: I am the worst. I have a tendency to only build social services when an actual disaster strikes. Edit: Also, is there any reason you didn't go for the other profitable TV station. or am I being forgetful and that requires you to make bubbly and stuff. I never remember the unlock requirements. Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 23:53
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Veloxyll posted:The worst part is when the citizens demanding that you tear down the nuke plants. are Tycoons. I think the best TV station, the one that expands your per-house population, requires Tier 4 citizens.
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Sep 10, 2015 01:06
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The Tycoon engineer tv station cuts upgrade costs in half (rounded up), which can save you easily hundreds of materials in the long run. It's why I always manually upgrade houses rather than let them take all my stuff when I need it the most.
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Sep 10, 2015 01:53
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Veloxyll posted:The worst part is when the citizens demanding that you tear down the nuke plants. are Tycoons. As mentioned earlier, ONLY the Tycoon citizens give a poo poo about nuclear power too which makes it really damned hilarious. Ecos and Techs understand that Gen-whatever reactors do NOT go Chernobyl and are built so that an out of control reaction shuts them down. Not to mention produces incredibly clean waste compared to the old reactors (modern reactor designs can use old "glow in the dark" reactor waste as fuel just fine and spit out something cleaner). It's just that everyone's so freaked out by nuclear power because they think the Three Stooges act that was Chernobyl is how all reactors are designed and are run by real world versions of Homer Simpson. Germany is one of the most anti-nuclear countries out there and Blue Byte, the developer, is a German studio, so their take on nuclear power is comically negative.
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Sep 10, 2015 02:12
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YeOldeButchere posted:Well, I don't think he personally went to various islands to set fire to houses, release deadly diseases downtown, blow up a uranium mine and command a battleship to blow up a tanker. Strindberg, evidently, just needed to set off an explosion for TyrantSabre to get close to.
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Sep 10, 2015 02:14
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David Corbett posted:Strindberg, evidently, just needed to set off an explosion for TyrantSabre to get close to. Dodge Strinberg! Save the survivors! Deliver the Sandbags! Weave between Thorne and Rodriguez! Catch the fish! Get close to S.A.A.T.! Dive under water! Set off the explosion! Get Close to F.A.T.H.E.R.! Jump the shark! Rescue Dr. Bartok! Clean up the nuclear waste! Clean up Strinberg's Mess! Defeat F.A.T.H.E.R.! Sorry, I've been holding back doing something like that all thread, but since someone else finally made a Stunt Driver joke my will broke.
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Sep 10, 2015 02:21
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Alkydere posted:As mentioned earlier, ONLY the Tycoon citizens give a poo poo about nuclear power too which makes it really damned hilarious. Ecos and Techs understand that Gen-whatever reactors do NOT go Chernobyl and are built so that an out of control reaction shuts them down. Not to mention produces incredibly clean waste compared to the old reactors (modern reactor designs can use old "glow in the dark" reactor waste as fuel just fine and spit out something cleaner). Also believable. Though some of the  things that have been done in the aftermath of Fukishima do make you wonder.
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Sep 10, 2015 02:27
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Alkydere posted:As mentioned earlier, ONLY the Tycoon citizens give a poo poo about nuclear power too which makes it really damned hilarious. Ecos and Techs understand that Gen-whatever reactors do NOT go Chernobyl and are built so that an out of control reaction shuts them down. Not to mention produces incredibly clean waste compared to the old reactors (modern reactor designs can use old "glow in the dark" reactor waste as fuel just fine and spit out something cleaner). Veloxyll posted:Also believable. Though some of the Also do note that no people were actually killed by either Fukushima or Three Mile Island and both 'disasters' were cleaned up with relatively little human cost. The cleanup was loving expensive monetarily sure, but the actual damage to real people in both accidents was relatively low. I challenge you to find another major heavy industry that can safely say that it suffered zero human casualties in two thirds of its recorded major disasters. A modern Nuclear Power Plant is probably actually one of the safest places on the entire planet.
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Sep 10, 2015 02:36
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Veloxyll posted:Also believable. Though some of the Still hasn't killed anyone though. Neither did 3 Mile Island. Freaked a fuckton of people out, was an expensive boondoggle to clean up (and that's really one very real strike against nuclear power plants, they are expensive as gently caress), and had issues due to corporate neglect/corner cutting to save moneys (well issues other than "was built in one of the most geologically active parts of the world"). The US Navy has repeatedly proved that nuclear power is incredibly safe, reliable and efficient if you don't cut any loving corners. Chernobyl on the other hand was an utter clown car that I completely understand terrifying people for a couple generations. It was bad enough it brought down the Iron Curtain. It sprayed radiation all over western Russian and a good chunk of Europe. In addition to the fact that the equipment lied to the under-trained technicians and the safety equipment actually accelerated the reaction the thing quite literally started to melt down into the ground. The fuel in the reactor actually got so hot it started to melt a hole through the ground, like a giant chunk of radioactive thermite, before they managed to get it under "control". Sucker was hot enough that people were terrified of it digging down to the point it might hit the water table, where there would have likely been a giant, radioactive steam explosion that would have spread even more radiation everywhere. Chernobyl got hot enough it is still hot, both physically and radioactively, today as a blob of molten nuclear fuel still cooks inside the Sarcophagus. On the plus side, the fact that it's still cooking is good evidence that as expensive as they are nuclear reactors have crazy fuel efficiency. 
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Sep 10, 2015 02:39
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Chernobyl was a bad design run by bad people with bad instructions who decided to perform a bad test badly. Being afraid of nuclear power because of Chernobyl is like being afraid of cars because one time a guy put a bomb in a car and then flipped while trying to drive the wrong way down the freeway without his seatbelt on and blew everything to poo poo. The problem was not the nuclear reactor, it was the incompetent idiots who built it and the incompetent idiots who ran it. Only in Soviet Russia could Chernobyl have happened, they cut so many corners that they ended up inventing entirely new corners just so they could cut them. e: Cracked actually has a pretty decent article about the realities of nuclear power. It's well worth a read for anyone who is interested.
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Sep 10, 2015 02:52
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Neruz posted:Chernobyl was a bad design run by bad people with bad instructions who decided to perform a bad test badly. Being afraid of nuclear power because of Chernobyl is like being afraid of cars because one time a guy put a bomb in a car and then flipped while trying to drive the wrong way down the freeway without his seatbelt on and blew everything to poo poo. Well, yeah, treating Chernobyl as a case of "what could go wrong" during normal reactor operation is like treating yourself shoving a pencil as far into your ear as you can as a case of "what could go wrong" during walking down a street. It wasn't even a power reactor either, it was a nuclear refinement reactor. I mean, I compared it to a Three Stooges act before, but if you went back in time and showed the actual Stooges the "script" of Chernobyl they'd look at you funny and ask "this can't be real, this has to be some sort of amateur script, right?" "Chernobyl was a bad design run by bad people with bad instructions who decided to perform a bad test badly." Is probably an understatement of how dumb the entire situation was.
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Sep 10, 2015 03:08
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Neruz posted:Chernobyl was a bad design run by bad people with bad instructions who decided to perform a bad test badly. Being afraid of nuclear power because of Chernobyl is like being afraid of cars because one time a guy put a bomb in a car and then flipped while trying to drive the wrong way down the freeway without his seatbelt on and blew everything to poo poo. That car is otherwise known as the Ford Pinto. But yeh. Fukushima is a definite ENVIRONMENTAL disaster. And a mess of corporate cost cutting and buck passing. But not so much a kills a bunch of people one. So of all three groups, it should bug Tycoons the LEAST.
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Sep 10, 2015 03:13
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Even the environmental damage done by Fukushima is relatively low thanks to the crisis management measures put in place. Tearing up and replacing all the topsoil (amongst many other measures that were employed) was definitely expensive as all get out, but it worked rather well. Careful monitoring has revealed some mild increases in radioactivity in the water table and wildlife (including fish) but so far nothing that would actually cause any health issues. The biggest issue they had was some contaminated water which was proving difficult for awhile, though I believe that is also under control now. And even then it's worth noting that Fukushima only happened because people were cutting corners. One day people will figure out that you can't loving cut corners with Nuclear Power. One day. Neruz fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 03:18
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What bugs me is that in America the line is "we don't support nuclear power because it takes a long time and a lot of money to build a plant, and the waste is a problem." It takes a long time and a lot of money because our ingrained nuclear-phobia puts a massive amount of unnecessary red tape in the way (and I'm not talking anti-regulation "the free market will fix it" solutions, just being sensible and listening to the scientists/safety people instead of the fearmongers). The waste is a problem because America's so terrified about supply lines that they aren't ALLOWED to do anything with it. From the plant to a hole in the ground, or rather to a canister behind the plant because the hole in the ground has a bunch of folks with lawsuits standing in front of it. Disclaimer: I grew up in Los Alamos during the end of nuclear testing, Yucca Mountain, and WIPP. Most of my exposure during my formative years came in the form of "you won't believe what those idiots are trying to do to stop things now." Bruceski fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 03:41
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The irony is that nuclear waste is only a problem because we keep loving about instead of building, testing and advancing Nuclear physics. There are a number of proposed Gen IV reactors that can run off the radioactive waste produced by Gen II and III reactors and in general Gen IV reactors should produce waste that is radioactive for a few centuries at best (and some of them should produce almost no dangerous waste at all); far more manageable. But progress in the field continues to be slow because everyone is terrified of Nuclear Power. So instead the best realistic outcome we have for Gen IV reactors being an actual thing is some time around 2030. (Test reactors don't count they're for testing not for actually doing stuff.) We could have had them right now if we'd spent the last fifty years properly developing the technology instead of screaming incoherently about cancer. First world countries could be almost completely independent of fossil fuels for major power generation by now. But no, Nuclear Power is too scary. 
Neruz fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 03:51
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Too thirsty is its biggest problem here. Though dumping radioactive coolant water into the ocean is pretty much peak "welp, we cut corners all those years back!" And it's more toxicity that's a problem with nuclear waste when you actually look into it. Whether that matters if you stuff it in a concrete bunker at the bottom of a disused mine or whatever and let it decay into something relatively benign over a few hundred years is a different issue. Now I'm wondering how much of the anti-nuclear lobby was funded by the oil and coal industries... Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 04:40
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Look, we've gone over this earlier in this thread: the reason the Tycoon citizens are the only ones that ask you to tear down your nuclear plants is because they also happen to be the ones who designed and operate them. They know that the containment building was designed as an afterthought, and built by the lowest bidding contractor who used watered down concrete AND reduced the thickness of everything by a third to save even more. They know that the steel used to make the reactor vessel came from Honest Walter's Junkyard. Which, coincidentally, is also where most of the spent fuel ends up. They know that the main safety feature of the design involves screaming "SCRAM!" so someone cuts the rope holding the control rods with an axe. The other safety feature involves pointing a big fan at the reactor vessel to cool it.
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Sep 10, 2015 05:21
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YeOldeButchere posted:Look, we've gone over this earlier in this thread: the reason the Tycoon citizens are the only ones that ask you to tear down your nuclear plants is because they also happen to be the ones who designed and operate them. They know that the containment building was designed as an afterthought, and built by the lowest bidding contractor who used watered down concrete AND reduced the thickness of everything by a third to save even more. They know that the steel used to make the reactor vessel came from Honest Walter's Junkyard. Which, coincidentally, is also where most of the spent fuel ends up. They know that the main safety feature of the design involves screaming "SCRAM!" so someone cuts the rope holding the control rods with an axe. The other safety feature involves pointing a big fan at the reactor vessel to cool it. Considering what an enormous undertaking it is to finish all the academy projects needed to negate reactor accident chance, you're probably depressingly right.
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Sep 10, 2015 07:51
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Alkydere posted:modern reactor designs can use old "glow in the dark" reactor waste as fuel just fine and spit out something cleaner Bruceski posted:The waste is a problem because America's so terrified about supply lines that they aren't ALLOWED to do anything with it.
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Sep 10, 2015 10:51
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Veloxyll posted:Now I'm wondering how much of the anti-nuclear lobby was funded by the oil and coal industries... A significant portion: http://ansnuclearcafe.org/2013/08/06/robert-anderson-antinuclear-financier/ The article is a bit lengthy, and for those more inclined to watching, Netflix has a documentary called Pandora's Promise that covers the reasons why so many people are antinuclear energy and attempts to cover the realities of safety and waste disposal in a modern reactor. It addresses many of the topics brought up in the past several posts. On my first run through of Anno, I didn't know how serious the whole ultimatum system was when I built my first nuclear reactor on an island with people. It was a quick lesson.
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Sep 10, 2015 11:05
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If you're wondering whether the coal and oil industries deliberately employed scare tactics to drum up the public perception of fear over nuclear power in order to head off a potential competitor with a superior product the answer is yes that totally happened. The Netflix documentary Advantageous mentioned is a good watch if you are looking to educate yourself.
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Sep 10, 2015 11:21
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YeOldeButchere posted:Look, we've gone over this earlier in this thread: the reason the Tycoon citizens are the only ones that ask you to tear down your nuclear plants is because they also happen to be the ones who designed and operate them. They know that the containment building was designed as an afterthought, and built by the lowest bidding contractor who used watered down concrete AND reduced the thickness of everything by a third to save even more. They know that the steel used to make the reactor vessel came from Honest Walter's Junkyard. Which, coincidentally, is also where most of the spent fuel ends up. They know that the main safety feature of the design involves screaming "SCRAM!" so someone cuts the rope holding the control rods with an axe. The other safety feature involves pointing a big fan at the reactor vessel to cool it. Plus they bought all of their fuel rods from Trench coat. So they're probably full of weapons grade levels of Uranium-235.
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Sep 10, 2015 15:17
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Zeniel posted:Plus they bought all of their fuel rods from Trench coat. So they're probably full of weapons grade levels of Uranium-235. Amd their control rods
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Sep 11, 2015 09:38
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And they decided the best way to deactivate the reactor in case of emergency is to build a explosive capsule around the core that when detonated will create a uniform inwards explosion, thus ensuring its all shut down at once.
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Sep 11, 2015 16:05
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Zeniel posted:And they decided the best way to deactivate the reactor in case of emergency is to build a explosive capsule around the core that when detonated will create a uniform inwards explosion, thus ensuring its all shut down at once. It seemed like a good idea on paper. It's not their fault they misread the name of the blueprint.
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Sep 11, 2015 16:09
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The tone of this game completely hosed with my head. I saw the early videos of 2070 and thought the game would be about 2 opposed factions coming into conflict over resources in a world with displaced people. I wasn't expecting to fight loving Skynet. And the weirdest thing was that none of the characters in the game seemed to give a poo poo about fighting a genocidal AI. Everyone's more concerned about getting their health drinks or burgers. Thorne was more angry about Strindberg's betrayal than the fact that FATHER had sunk all those ships.
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Sep 12, 2015 15:36
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2070 is about a global ideological and economic struggle between two opposing paradigms. FATHER is a local issue that either conglomerate can crush if he gets out of hand (and they are).
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Sep 12, 2015 20:28
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Yeah as major a FATHER seems to be from our perspective, from a global perspective he's really not a problem right now. He could potentially become one, but presently he's not that high up on the list of 'poo poo we need to worry about. right now''
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Sep 13, 2015 00:48
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wiegieman posted:2070 is about a global ideological and economic struggle between two opposing paradigms. FATHER is a local issue that either conglomerate can crush if he gets out of hand (and they are). Exactly. The player is a third-party construction and logistics firm based out of a large mobile submersible facility working with licensed blueprints from two giant international conglomerates. Part of our contract responsibilities include residential and utilities construction, and we also own a large spread of subsidiaries including ship manufacturers, maintenance and logistics, and several farm-to-table fast food and non-GMO health food chains. Sure the citizens in the city we were contracted to build will hear about the war with FATHER on the
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Sep 13, 2015 01:50
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I still don't really understand exactly where the player is supposed to stand within the universe; like, EVE seems to be some kind of high level command and control for the Arks, so are you (and all the other Players) working for some gargantuan third-party company that owns these Arks and contracts them and their Captains out to the various factions or are you some kind of mega-freelancer who owns the Ark and all the other business interests and EVE is your AI. And how do the techs fit into all of this? I originally assumed the 'gargantuan third-party Ark company' idea and concluded that the Techs belonged to them (or rather you belong to the Techs), which is why you get access to Tech stuff. But now that I think about it I have no idea.
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Sep 13, 2015 01:55
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Neruz posted:are you some kind of mega-freelancer who owns the Ark and all the other business interests and EVE is your AI. This is the impression I've been getting, that the PC is a third-party contractor initially hired by Global Trust to help with Site 13 and EVE is your ark's AI, then SAT procures your services. Near as I can tell, Global Trust and the Eden Initiative are the two biggest powers in the world, while SAT is one of many smaller groups willing to work with both. Another possibility that occurs to me is that the player works for what remains of the nation-state that used to occupy this area and therefore provides local support to the megacorps developing and resettling the area. I was expecting to have to choose between the Eden Initiative and Global Trust during the campaign beyond that one mission, but apparently not.
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Sep 13, 2015 02:03
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Yeah the fact that you can bounce back and forth between the two factions is why I figured the mega-corporation thing; I assumed that there was a third 'Ark Corp' that specialized in building and managing cities and industry that the Trust and Initiative have and ongoing business relationship with and hire Arks as they are needed to do things. But some of the in-game stuff suggests that you're an independent Ark owner, which suggests an amusing view of the future high seas with hundreds of freelance Ark owners just floating around overnight building entire cities on random islands whenever they get bored.
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Sep 13, 2015 02:08
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Neruz posted:But some of the in-game stuff suggests that you're an independent Ark owner, which suggests an amusing view of the future high seas with hundreds of freelance Ark owners just floating around overnight building entire cities on random islands whenever they get bored. Presumably the playable Ark captains are on contract with either the Eden Initiative or Global Trust, considering everything you build is for one of them or SAT. Thorne, Yana, and Devi all have their own Arks after all.
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Sep 13, 2015 02:13
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Sure, but if the Ark captains are independent contractors that means there must be at least one of them who, at some point, built something gigantic and stupid just for the hell of it. At some point some Ark captain got sufficiently rich and bored that he decided to take advantage of all his shiny super construction tech and build something ludicrous for his own personal amusement. You just know it's happened at least once; the Trust or Initiative guys have woken up one morning to find an entire Taj Mahal sitting on a previously empty offshore islet. There is no way you can give a single human that much power without oversight and expect not one of them to ever do something silly with it just for laughs.
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Sep 13, 2015 02:23
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Neruz posted:There is no way you can give a single human that much power without oversight and expect not one of them to ever do something silly with it just for laughs. Well, seeing as FATHER unleashing nuclear fire on multiple population centers is apparently a minor inconvenience at best, I think that the people in the world of Anno 2070 are a lot less affected by that kind of stuff. "We're settling on an irradiated island? Eh, I guess I'll save money on that vasectomy I was thinking about." "Our entire neighborhood has just been razed to the ground because it wasn't perfectly aligned with a road grid pattern? Well, what can you do, that's just life." "Eating nothing but fish all day every day? You get used to it, and besides all that mercury gives my hair some nice silvery highlights."
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Sep 13, 2015 04:22
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Neruz posted:There is no way you can give a single human that much power without oversight and expect not one of them to ever do something silly with it just for laughs.
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Sep 13, 2015 21:06
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Also an irradiated hellhole that has recently seen unscheduled nuclear testing IS A STEP UP FOR THE CITIZENS This game raises a lot of questions. But don't worry, you can trust EVE implicitly.
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Sep 13, 2015 23:52
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Poil posted:When playing 1404 multiplayer with a friend he bought up one of the AI's smaller islands, not because he needed the resources but to demolish everything and cover the entire island with a massive palace complex and gardens. It was a lovely little island with a nice lake on it. I have not played this game in a few months and now I want to play it again, such a pretty game.
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Sep 14, 2015 00:48
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The thing about 2070 that turned me off it somewhat, is the colour scheme. I really like the bright and colourful art style of 1404 and only maximum ecobalance cities come anywhere close to that in 2070. It's just too subdued and grey for my tastes.
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Sep 14, 2015 16:20
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I'd imagine there's a SweetFX for that, which speaking of, I wouldn't mind seeing in the LP. Which I need more of. It's fun to watch.
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