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Seems like we've got a lot of votes, I'll call it here. Internet won by a landslide, though Bombs made a gradual comeback! I'll work on recording the update. If some high priority event decides to happen very quickly and make me look like a goof for ending the last update where I did, I'll put the next update out sooner. Otherwise it'll be out on Friday. Edit: also woohoo, new page
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Nov 30, 2021 18:25
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Woohoo, got my first win! Having a paranoid character really helped out this run; I'd guess it saved me from a half dozen nasty encounters all on its own. Near the end I got a really nasty string of encounters -- lost my car, everyone was low on morale, and we took two party-wide health hits in a row (attacked by ants, then forced to jump off a cliff). But nobody died, and nobody got hurt for the entire rest of the run! ...it really helps that in the last swarm encounter, there was a house with three pipe bombs on the floor  Well. I say "nobody" died...one of the moose at the Canada border died  Martial Artist is a really strong perk, it feels like. Sure, you can't use any weapons except throwing weapons, but in exchange you get a powerful, fast, and lightweight weapon in your fists.
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Dec 3, 2021 00:59
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Woohoo, got my first win! Having a paranoid character really helped out this run; I'd guess it saved me from a half dozen nasty encounters all on its own. Near the end I got a really nasty string of encounters -- lost my car, everyone was low on morale, and we took two party-wide health hits in a row (attacked by ants, then forced to jump off a cliff). But nobody died, and nobody got hurt for the entire rest of the run! ...it really helps that in the last swarm encounter, there was a house with three pipe bombs on the floor
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Dec 3, 2021 01:20
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Woohoo, got my first win! Having a paranoid character really helped out this run; I'd guess it saved me from a half dozen nasty encounters all on its own. Near the end I got a really nasty string of encounters -- lost my car, everyone was low on morale, and we took two party-wide health hits in a row (attacked by ants, then forced to jump off a cliff). But nobody died, and nobody got hurt for the entire rest of the run! ...it really helps that in the last swarm encounter, there was a house with three pipe bombs on the floor Congrats!  Paranoid is really strong, and the only downside to it is a few rare events where it doesn't get you much, and the fact that it requires low attitude. As for the border guard, it's not unusual to see one of them die, but they gave their lives for CANADA  And yeah, Martial Artist is very strong. Esme right now easily contributes to most of the zombie killcount right now, and it comes with the advantage of always being with you. And if fortune favors you, you can upgrade it to Kill Fu with a rare event. It's Kung-fu, but deadlier. GilliamYaeger posted:A combo of Martial Artist + Paranoid paired with Car Nut + Civilized can basically cruise through most text events that would otherwise be crippling, in my experience. Anything that Civilized can't talk you through, Paranoid can paranoia your way through, Car Nut gets you solid mechanical skill which lets you keep cars when they break down and handle a whole bunch of other misc events, and Martial Artist easily is the second best melee character, behind only Big Bruiser + Berserk. What helps is that Martial Artist is good enough as is that you can take Paranoid and not be too weak without taking some combat stat boosting trait in place of it. Car Nut + Civilized is probably the best soft skill combo available, as a higher mechanical is usually required more than a higher medical. Big Bruiser + Berserk is one of my favorites, and only has the downside of slower movement speed. For the combo of improved fists, gun availability, starting the game with 2 HP instead of one, and still getting those high combat stats it's hard to dislike it. I have a certain love for TSTC + Berserk, but I also recognize it's inherent flaws in being a very specialized build. Grappler + Ex-Wrestler is also a favorite of mine for co-op, as while it's specialized into the one role of suplexing zombies that role works very well. Next update should be out tomorrow, where we've got a more interesting vote than last time, I'd think. I probably could have put it out sooner, but I've not been sleeping very well of late and I just haven't felt very good as result.
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Dec 3, 2021 01:52
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I'm sorry to hear you haven't been sleeping well, Odd! We totally understand, take your time. I think playing with a BERSERK character would be fun, but my ability to strafe leaves something to be desired. Even the 2 HP combo of Big Bruiser + BERSERK makes me nervous because of the slower movement speed. Maybe I should look into the co-op for this game...
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Dec 3, 2021 04:42
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I tried playing, and apparently I am very bad at the combat. I feel like I am starting to get the hang of strafing with the lead character, but the AI-controlled jerks tend to get stuck stupidly.
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Dec 3, 2021 14:50
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PinkDawn posted:I'm sorry to hear you haven't been sleeping well, Odd! We totally understand, take your time. BERSERK is definitely something you want to have a good handle on strafing for, but it also can be some rather good practice for it. The thing about Martial Artist + Berserk is that the Kung-fu can penetrate through 1 zombie guaranteed, and comes with some decent knockback if it doesn't kill, allowing you to clear hordes easier. Still, Big Bruiser's lower movespeed is not that unmanageable- you'll still be moving slightly faster than zombies can. The ability to swap off to guns can make survival a lot easier as well. When it comes to co-op, I've found Death Road to be a lot easier. You can switch characters much faster, and the AI seems to hug the characters you're playing much closer (they usually stick close to the last player who walked into them). It also gives various dog strats, and character combinations time to shine. Dogs are very good at pulling all sorts of strafing strategies with their bark ability, but they're no good when you've got slow humans trailing behind you. Xarn posted:I tried playing, and apparently I am very bad at the combat. I feel like I am starting to get the hang of strafing with the lead character, but the AI-controlled jerks tend to get stuck stupidly. AI jerks will be AI jerks. In solo play, I've had to swap character control very often as well as mess with the "Fight" "Defend" "Run" commands on a regular basis. There are ways to adjust strafing maneuvers to be a bit more in favor of the jerk AIs, but there's only so much you can do. I can at least be thankful they sorta know how to avoid grenades and to not use flamethrowers. Hm. Maybe sometime I ought to make some tutorials on strafing, covering how I handle the combat and whatnot.
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Dec 3, 2021 16:20
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Xarn posted:I tried playing, and apparently I am very bad at the combat. I feel like I am starting to get the hang of strafing with the lead character, but the AI-controlled jerks tend to get stuck stupidly. What I've been doing, which seems to be working well on Normal at least, is to just keep moving. It feels like your allies are more likely to stop and thwack zombies if they're closer to you, so by just kind of charging relentlessly forward, you force them to focus on movement, which makes them less likely to get stuck. I'll take the occasional pot-shot at a zombie that's in my way, but only once and I'll leave my teammates to clean it up or ignore it. Incidentally, if you have a chainsaw, you can absolutely just dive into a dense cloud of zombies and chew your way through it. That's how I dealt with the Canada border
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Dec 3, 2021 16:24
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You want to drag your allies along the edge of the horde, so they get in range to attack but never get pulled directly into a group. You might be able to finagle yourself right through the thick of it, but they’re not that smart. It helps to give them time to breathe, too, since they’re pretty good at defending themselves with melee attacks when they have stamina.
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Dec 3, 2021 17:28
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:What I've been doing, which seems to be working well on Normal at least, is to just keep moving. It feels like your allies are more likely to stop and thwack zombies if they're closer to you, so by just kind of charging relentlessly forward, you force them to focus on movement, which makes them less likely to get stuck. Overall, movement is very important in staying alive. If you set them to "Runnin'" in the party menu, it should make them stop fighting at all if you're having problems with lagging behind. The only problem with running away constantly is that the zombies not killed will continue to pursue you, but sometimes hordes can be just too big overall for a team to handle. Keeping up momentum in general works very well though, as the faster you cut through an area, the less of the excess zombies around the side of the map will come for you. Pulling hit and runs on zombies is a valid tactic on smaller horde sizes, as usually even the weakest survivor can one-shot a downed zombie with a passable weapon. Chainsaws can absolutely grind a path through a horde, but the AI won't always be as close as they need to be to take advantage of it as the knockback doesn't last too long. It's a very good strategy for a small team in my experience, but not so much for a full sized team. That being said, the Canada border is all about just reaching the end quickly, and the full momentum strategy is basically always the play to go for there. megane posted:You want to drag your allies along the edge of the horde, so they get in range to attack but never get pulled directly into a group. You might be able to finagle yourself right through the thick of it, but they’re not that smart. It helps to give them time to breathe, too, since they’re pretty good at defending themselves with melee attacks when they have stamina. Yeah, the big thing is keeping them from getting grabbed. They can contribute a lot of damage, and they're fantastic at keeping zombies off themselves as long as they've got stamina, and the Mounties at the border are pretty much proof of that.
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Dec 3, 2021 18:41
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UPDATE 19: CHARBROILED Votes are in to try to get on the Internet! * Tunes: Nobody Cooled It *  --------------------------------- RESULT The computer makes strange, piercing noises and distorted chirps. What the heck is going on? Alex fiddles with the ancient computer. It is a complete and utter mystery. Alex starts to make headway into understanding very old computers and, somehow, car repair. Then the power shuts off. Alex's mechanical increases! Esme's morale decreases to almost  (5)Lank's morale decreases to almost (5)Gal Fieri's 's morale decreases to almost (5)Alex's 's morale decreases to  (2)---------------------------------  ALEX: I'm not sure if this is a normal computer. ALEX: ...Pretty sure this is a car ignition.  GAL FIERI: Did someone say IGNITION?! GAL FIERI: ...Oh. That's just weird. ALEX: Well, with the power out, not much else I can do 'ere.  ESME: Psh. I did 500 1 finger push-ups waiting on this. ALEX: You can smash it now, if you want. ESME: What's the point? It's already broke and I see no zombies! We leave now, I am BORED. ALEX: Sure, whatever. But, where's Lank?  LANK: *enters the room, chasing a bug with a bottle in hand*  GAL FIERI: I'm not cooking that. LANK: Hup! *whiff* Hup! *whiff* LANK: HYAAAAGH!  --------------------------------- Death Road Sing-a-Long The group is sitting around a campfire. Finding this campsite was rough, so they are getting in a bad mood. The group eats a decent meal. Lose 8 food! 1. Sing a song 2. Lank- Plan out tomorrow --------------------------------- LANK: *stares at empty bottle* GAL FIERI: *furiously cooking* ESME: How does one make Swole Jims taste better? GAL FIERI: A lot of ways! Just the right heat and a little bit of seasoning will do wonders! There's many roads to Flavorville! ESME: I AM READY FOR ALL OF THE ROADS GAL FIERI: Not the first time I've had to cook 'em either, believe it or not. ALEX: How'd that happen? GAL FIERI: Swole Jim sponsored a boxing tourney once. They hired me to give 'em some real good catering.  --------------------------------- RESULT Lank plans out the next day. It's a good use of ime, and helps them focus on the big picture. Lank's morale increases to (6)Lank's wits revealed as  (4)--------------------------------- ALEX: Meat sticks lightly grilled and battered with spicy barbeque crisps. How very...decadent. GAL FIERI: Tell me it ain't off the hook.Your big friend over there has already passed out from the flavor explosion. ESME: ZzzzZZZZzz... *Da na na NAAAAAAAA* LANK: *holds up bottled Swole Jims* GAL FIERI: Savin' some for later, eh? Smart man. ALEX: I'm just a tad worried at how much kip we're going to go through at this rate. GAL FIERI: Ehh, don't worry. I can make a flip-flop taste good.  ALEX: Sure, there won't be as much mosquitoes in Canada, but what about grizzly bears? ESME: I will WRESTLE THEM. ALL OF THEM. ALEX: Is it just your natural reaction to do that to animals? ESME: Just the BIG AND SWOLE ones. For these beasts to survive the new world, they too must be introduced to MUSCLE BOMB. ESME: ...As is declared by the teachings of the SWOLEN ONE.  --------------------------------- Lonely Gas Station The group finds a gas station far off main road. Someone has looted the store and there's no zombies in sight. The gas pumps are old, and don't seem to be functioning. 1. Leave pumps alone 2. Alex attempts to fix the pumps 3. Esme crawls into the tank --------------------------------- ESME: Tales speak of a great and SWOLE beast that lives in these tanks. LANK: HWAGH?! ALEX: ..Are you going to check? ESME: Don't be silly, unswolen one. Nothing good ever comes from gas not in cans on the DEATH ROAD. ALEX: Well, I'm going to try and fix it before Miss Napalm over there gets any ideas. GAL FIERI: *eyeballing napalm launcher* Huh, what?  --------------------------------- RESULT Alex attempts to fix the pumps. It takes some fumbling, but she gets the pumps running. The group collects up that precious gas. Get 87 gas! Alex's mechanical increases! Alex's mechanical revealed as  (3)--------------------------------- Alex has managed to luck herself into a pretty good mechanical score! She's sitting at the point of having a chance at some of the easier cars, so now she's got a use beyond just her traits. Unfortunately, it's not enough to attempt the starter car, which is about to go up in flames pretty soon.  ALEX: ...Anyone want to do a sing-along? LANK: KYAAAAH! ALEX: O-okay then... The game doesn't usually have any special lines programmed for random car reactions, thus why in the screenshot Lank is breaking character of saying only battle cries. This also implies Lank has a really low attitude score, I believe.  --------------------------------- Always Be Looting While driving on the Death Road, the group decides to make a stop for supplies: 1. Apartment Row 2. Cabin Rescue 3. Rest Stop with Car 4. Explorer- Drive more - 25 gas --------------------------------- And Alex comes in handy again. Our car is like one tick of gas usage away from breaking down, so getting that extra third option here for a free car is fantastic. In general, it's almost always the best option if your car is going to break down and your mechanic can't do anything about it. Even the worst, most gas guzzling vehicles are better than walking events.  --------------------------------- Roadside Car Stop The group finds a rest stop along the road. Right in front of it is a cart that looks like it's been recently driven. The car is in great shape, but the owner is nowhere in sight. Your zombie forecast is: SWARM SIZE: Moderate AGGRESSION: Hunting CURRENT TIME: Late Afternoon 1. Check out that car --------------------------------- * Tunes: Horsemann Shuffle *  ALEX: ...Is this a giant dog shaped van? LANK: WAUGH?! ESME: It is MAJESTIC. GAL FIERI: I wish it was a hotdog van. This doesn't look like a Flavorville Express to me. I don't see this and think of deep fry baths, I think of table scraps. ALEX: Well, our car is about to break down and I'm pretty sure I don't know how to fix it. ESME: Old car is WEAK! This van is TOUGH, LIKE ME.  LANK: HYWAAA! ALEX: Did that sword just shoot a laser!?  LANK: SI-YAAAH! GAL FIERI: That is indeed, a laser. When Lank upgrades his sword, he starts to get ranged beams at full health, which is a mechanic from some classic games you may have played before. It's not stealing mechanics, and if it is, it's part of the parody.  ESME: FOOD for the FURNITURE GOD ALEX: Quite a bit of food leftover in these... ALEX: Bulletproof glass?!  ESME: They may block WEAK bullets, but they are no match for MY FISTS.  GAL FIERI: These seem like the kind of folks to appreciate the smoky flavor of char. ALEX: *cough* Are you intending on burning this building down?! *cough* GAL FIERI: Sometimes the food makes you want to party so hard you bring the roof down! When you get that real Flavorville experience, you just can't help it.  ALEX: A-aand... here's the... ugh... previous owners... ESME: Psh, what are bones going to do? Rise from the dead? ALEX: Given the zombies... it's possible... LANK: Ngh? Ah!  *Sword beams* LANK: HYAAAAGH! *jumping strike* ESME: Look what you've done! You've made Brother Lank afraid of the bones too! ESME: I am surrounded by COWARDS  GAL FIERI: ...Y'know, I could go for some ribs right about now.  ESME: HYAH! KIYAH! VARNISHED OTTOMAN STRIKE! LANK: Hut, hah, SI-YAAAAH! ALEX: Why are there so many zombies in here?!   GAL FIERI: Time to TURN UP THE HEAT! ALEX: Is is necessary that you all shout when fighting? ESME: It puts POWER into your strike! True fighters do it! LANK: KYAAH! ESME: See? You should try it sometime, unswolen one.  ESME: Keys got!  ESME: Dog car got! LANK: KYAAGH!  ESME: GIVIN' IT!  --------------------------------- MISSION SUMMARY Got 14 food, total now 40 Got 25 gas, total now 103 Got 2 medical, total now 5 Total pistol ammo: 62 Total shotgun ammo: 61 69 zombies destroyed. --------------------------------- * Tunes: Green on Green * ESME: Heh, nice. ALEX: What? ESME:  LANK: *quietly eats a milk chocolate bar*  Pretty good haul, although the dog van is a bit sub par. It's slow, eats gas, but is durable. It's identical to the Ice Cream Van we had last run, (which is consequently identical to the SUV which we've never seen.)  --------------------------------- Mini Golf! The group sets up camp at the safest place they could find around: an abandoned mini-golf park. The group eats a decent meal. Alex's morale increases to (2)In the morning, they find a golf ball and putter while searching the area. The group decides to play a quick game! ---------------------------------  --------------------------------- Mini Golf! Alex gets some needed exercise! Alex's fitness increases! Esme gets tired of the game and loses the ball on purpose. Esme's morale decreases to (3)Alex's morale decreases to almost  (1)Lank's morale decreases to almost (5)Gal Fieri's morale decreases to (4)--------------------------------- ALEX: Was that necessary? ESME: Not my fault that it was TOO WEAK FOR MY SWOLE. ALEX: You don't have to always use full power. ESME: BLASPHEMY!  --------------------------------- LET'S SUMO WRESTLE The group is trying to find supplies and stumbles on a fortified martial arts dojo. Inside is a sumo wrestler. He explains that he's surviving, but he wants to travel. Everyone left his town quite awhile ago. Even before then, there wasn't a huge demand for sumo wrestler training on the east coast of the United States. I heard sumo is pretty big in Canada! Bigger than hockey! --------------------------------- ESME: What POWER!  GAL FIERI: What an appetite! ALEX: They have sumo in Canada? LANK: *assumes sumo stance, throwing off tunic* Huh! ALEX: I mean I...uh...  While these two prepare to do battle in the ring, we have a decision, thread! Do we take the sumo wrestler? If so, who do we replace? Left 4 Bread fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 18:41
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After complaining I almost got to Canada, without combat problems until the 4 hour siege near the end Through some luck I ended up with party of 2 great combatants (1 had max strength, max fitness, great shooting, the other had max strength and almost max fitness), 1 passable combatant and medic and 1 paranoid mechanics who sucked in combat. Things went great until a gas station, where something exploded, killing both of my main combat jerks, then the next thing was the last trader camp and the second siege killed me because I no longer had good frontline Is there a way to compare weapons and their stats in-game, or do I have to go to wiki every time to decide what weapon is better/worse to keep?
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Dec 3, 2021 19:09
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I think Alex has had enough of this world's bullshit and runs off. Luckily there is a sumo wrestler to replace her in the party
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Dec 3, 2021 19:22
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We don't need a sumo wrestler really, and Alex's mechanical is starting to get acceptable, so I don't want to lose them. Pass 'em by.
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Dec 3, 2021 19:30
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Xarn posted:After complaining I almost got to Canada, without combat problems until the 4 hour siege near the end Explosions do in the best of characters. RIP to your good frontliners. Given you don't know what exploded, I'm willing to wager it might have been a propane canister that got set off at some point. The City of Lost Hope has it's name for a reason, and remains the hardest part of the endgame- I've lost a large number of runs to it. Unfortunately, when it comes to weapon comparisons, the wiki is the only source outside of just remembering what is and isn't good.
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Dec 3, 2021 19:52
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Odd Wilson posted:This also implies Lank has a really low attitude score, I believe. I mean, you can only spend so long in a place named Misery Mire before becoming a bit of a misanthrope. Leave the mighty Sumo. This is a nice, balanced party. The only thing it might need is a bit of shooting, which 1)I don't think we actually know if that's true---Alex or Gal might have a decent-ish score? 2)I can't imagine the Sumo is very skilled at, if he's even allowed to equip weapons at all---my guess is he's probably locked to martial arts.
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Dec 3, 2021 19:54
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I lost my entire team to a propane tank in a convenience store once. What's that hissing sound?   OhAlso, a word of advice for any other players: if you have a party of 1 human and 3 dogs, and you find a fourth dog...maybe don't take it. Despite my paranoid dog saving me from a bandit encounter by ramming through it with the car, it turns out that dogs can't drive. At least, the dogs I have can't drive. I wouldn't remotely put it past this game to have a driving dog, and if so, I hope we get to see it in this LP. Leave the sumo wrestler.
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Dec 3, 2021 20:02
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Also, a word of advice for any other players: if you have a party of 1 human and 3 dogs, and you find a fourth dog...maybe don't take it. Despite my paranoid dog saving me from a bandit encounter by ramming through it with the car, it turns out that dogs can't drive. At least, the dogs I have can't drive. I wouldn't remotely put it past this game to have a driving dog, and if so, I hope we get to see it in this LP. This is very odd for me to hear, as I'm quite sure that dropping the last human in a team for a dog would automatically SUPERTRAIN all of them, which should allow them to drive cars. Are you sure that the car didn't just break down from the damage it took from plowing through? All dog teams are most definitely possible. I've done a few before, though I never managed to make to the border with any of them. Also I know of two rare dogs that can drive by default, being already SUPERTRAINED. Left 4 Bread fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 20:14
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Odd Wilson posted:All dog teams are most definitely possible. I've done a few before, though I never managed to make to the border with any of them. OK, maybe I fudged the truth a bit. I didn't want to mention anything we haven't seen in the LP, but I had 2 dogs and a goat, not 3 dogs. Link to death image
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Dec 3, 2021 20:24
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:OK, maybe I fudged the truth a bit. I didn't want to mention anything we haven't seen in the LP, but I had 2 dogs and a goat, not 3 dogs. Link to death image Ah, well thanks for maintaining the SPOILER SHIELD. I'm not so quick to pick up on these things sometimes.
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Dec 3, 2021 20:59
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This thread made me pick up the game again, and then promptly put it back down, because I forgot how much of it is absolute loving bullshit you cannot possibly prevent. The "everyone just takes damage" events that have zero escape can hit back to back. A really fun game, but some of the design is just dog-poo poo artificial difficulty. Yeah, rolling an 8 on a d8 is more difficult than rolling a 4 on a d4, but it's not exactly something that the player can determine, y'know?
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Dec 3, 2021 21:24
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Veryslightlymad posted:This thread made me pick up the game again, and then promptly put it back down, because I forgot how much of it is absolute loving bullshit you cannot possibly prevent. The "everyone just takes damage" events that have zero escape can hit back to back. I'm sympathetic to your frustration, but I don't agree with your thesis. I'll admit that I have relatively little experience with the game, but so far I think the only times I've had damage that I couldn't prevent was when I was on foot. Being on foot sucks for a reason: it's your punishment for letting your car break / run out of gas. And sure, maybe you couldn't have avoided that...but maybe you could have (e.g. by going to a garage instead of a grocery store, or by training mechanics when you had the opportunity). In many respects, this is a game about playing the odds and making judgement calls with incomplete information. I feel like this game has a fair amount in common with FTL: both games look very luck-based to casual observation, but there's a lot of factors at play that have a strong impact on your odds of success. Sometimes what determines your success is a decision you made 15 minutes ago, or a minor optimization that gradually snowballed.
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Dec 3, 2021 22:04
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As an expert with ~300 minutes of play I have to say that FTL felt subjectively fairer, even if I wouldn't net on it being true objectively. There were no "oh, your party is making lovely comments to each other during travel" parts in FTL
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Dec 3, 2021 22:29
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Veryslightlymad posted:This thread made me pick up the game again, and then promptly put it back down, because I forgot how much of it is absolute loving bullshit you cannot possibly prevent. The "everyone just takes damage" events that have zero escape can hit back to back. I won't deny there's a large number of random rolls that can cause some events to fail when they really shouldn't have, (my personal biggest annoyance being car repair with equal mechanics skill, and that one road event everyone hates) and party damage events can stack up on you. Being without a car on the higher difficulties is pretty much a death sentence most of the time. I still won't deny that surviving the Great Hermit Misadventures of our first run was pretty much pure luck. We should have hit a despair spiral, but that never happened and we never saw most of the brutal events that could have show up. And believe me, I've lost a lot of runs to random events. I know the pain. The game mode I couldn't complete involves hauling a mostly meh Berserk character to Canada under threat of constant, double damage bandits and massive horde sizes. I quit this game a few years back after a really bad streak of bad luck because it did get rather frustrating to me. Regardless I agree with TooMuchAbstraction's take on the matter in that a lot of the game is about making decisions based on what can show up. The morale never would have gotten that low if I'd opted for the supermarket instead of the hospital (a choice of more guaranteed food over a gamble on food), and Max should have been able to repair the car if his trait was leveled up. Sometimes the RNG really does hate you, but there's ways to prepare against it. You can survive giving up supplies to bandits on occasion, and not losing the car is vital. The Paranoid trait helps cut down on bandit encounters, while Pathfinder can make losing the car far more tolerable than usual. Then again, I've played way too much of this game, so maybe I'm just inoculated to this game's nonsense and I just don't notice it anymore. Xarn posted:As an expert with ~300 minutes of play FTL also doesn't have Ma Hooth, ready to assassinate your BERSERK characters. The random jerk lines are a pain though. Not going to lie. Then again, I was rubbish at FTL. Never could beat it. I've found Death Road to be a lot more fair than For the King. That game's RNG levels is painful. At least in Death Road I can actually strategize combat without it randomly going awry to factors entirely out of my control.
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Dec 3, 2021 23:11
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You can certainly reduce your odds of bad things happening, but they will never be zero. In fact, as near as I can tell, you will always lose a car. The difficulty to repair a car goes up each time a car breaks down. Eventually it will be beyond even the best mechanical characters' ability to repair. And that's if you even have one such character; the only way to assure that you do would be to start with one. Sometimes, the car just breaks. And then once you're walking, all bets are off. You can get multiple "everyone takes a point of damage" events in a row. For all your optimization, you'll still just completely lose sometimes. You can think of it as "sometimes you just roll six skulls" in Blood Bowl. If the RNG decides you lose, you lose. Period. But the biggest offense here is that you have no way of knowing what the RNG even is. Do I pretend to be all that good at this game? Hell no. But it's something that you pretty clearly can just completely lose at even if you were to play theoretically perfect. It's the sort of game that the better at it you get, the more frustrating it feels when you do lose. For all that people want to talk about the RNG of X-com, its only sin is that it actually bothers to tell you the odds so your mind plays a dirty trick on you where you see a 95 and assume that you won't still miss about one time in twenty, which is kind of a lot of times. With the right information and methodical planning, you will win. X-com is incredibly fair. Earlier, I mentioned Blood Bowl, which is 1)a competitive game, so both players are dealing with the same RNG, 2)very upfront about your odds and 3)Not dooming literally your entire team and campaign on a single bad roll. For all that it can feel like the universe has doomed you, Blood Bowl is fair. In Death Road to Canada, for something the player has only an illusion of control over, the events, particularly the walking events, are ridiculously punishing. Your characters have 2-4 HP max (that I'm aware of. If 5 is possible, I have not yet seen it. I certainly wouldn't rule it out.) An event where everyone takes 1 damage on a party of 3 characters is as much damage as losing one of your party members outright on average. Now remember what I said, and that you can suffer multiple of these events in a row before you get an opportunity to find a new car. I don't want to poo poo up the thread with negativity though. DRTC does some things really well. Its quirky humor is pretty refreshing and has a weirdly consistent "voice". It has some catchy music. It's really fun seeing all the events and special characters. It can feel very rewarding to finally win, and also if you luck your way into the game's canonical TRUE ENDING. It's clear that the devs wanted it to be a fun, repeatable experience, and based somewhat loosely on the Oregon Trail, which also at times probably felt unfair. I think they just went too far into trying to capture that nostalgic feeling, and wound up creating a game that's even less fair to the player. But on the plus side, runs in this game are blessedly fast, its weird humor is pretty encouragingly up-beat, and if you can keep yourself keyed in to its little world, then losing feels like not too big a deal. For all that I have major issues with the game, I do still pick it back up from time to time, depending on my mood--I'm pretty sure the "coming back to it" indicates that, on the whole, it's a pretty good game.
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Dec 3, 2021 23:23
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Let's leave the sumo wrestler. I doubt there's anything he can bring to the table that Esme doesn't already aside from more health, probably.
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Dec 4, 2021 00:05
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Veryslightlymad posted:text here Not gonna deny that the game can be exceedingly rude at times. For what it's worth, it is possible to make it to Canada without losing your car. A well trained mechanical user and one of the older car models that takes less skill to initially repair, such as the Muscle Car, makes it possible. On average, I think there's about 3-4 required repairs per run, so it's just a matter then of not running out of gas or damaging the car too much in random events. Though given that repairing restores a random amount from 50-100% of the engine, you may end up seeing more than that many repairs. At some point, you'll probably need to hop to a fresh car, and finding the random garage event can make such a journey easier, but that is random (although I usually see it). A Cheevo exists for doing it in your starter car, though that's a lot harder than just hopping one or two cars. As for health, it caps at a total of 6 maximum for a full blue heart, though it's very hard to see that outside of some hefty luck. If you haven't tried playing with them, I would suggest taking a look into Pathfinder, Phoenix, Hero Type, and Shield of Hope perks and traits. The latter three all feature ways to cheat death, and the former can cut out a large amount of the pain that walking events can cause. Unfortunately, all of those are unlocks, so a starting file won't have access to them outside of
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Dec 4, 2021 00:16
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Leave the Sumo Wrestler. I don't see how he's worth breaking up our original band of goobers.
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Dec 4, 2021 02:24
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Leave the sumo. I like our team.
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Dec 4, 2021 07:40
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I spent some more time thinking about fairness in FTL vs DRTC, so I am going to inflict them onto this thread (For context, I have over 100 hours of FTL and ~5 hours of DRTC + this thread, so take it with a grain of salt.) gently caress DRTC PROGRESSION SYSTEM. I am strongly against progression systems like the one in DRTC where the progression makes you unambigously stronger, and so far it seems very grindy. FTL starts you out with one of the stronger ships and the unlocks are limited to being able to start with different ships, with different gameplay niches. The combat in DRTC feels fairer because your mastery of combat has much higher and direct impact on the gameplay. So far I never felt like I lost a combat scene on spawn, which I can't say for FTL, which will happily spawn combat encounters that you can't scratch, or vice versa (this applies double if you go with some of the specialized unlock ships). Special mention to FTL's end boss that basically just hard counters several gimmicks that can get you through the whole game until him. The randomness feels fairer in FTL, but I am not sure it is in practice. While in FTL you don't get those notifications how your crew hates each other and are causing a morale spiral, once you start flying gimmick builds you can absolutely get screwed over by random shops not giving you a necessary aug to make it work. And even if you are flying a boring standard stable build, bad shop rng can severely hamper your run. It is just silent about it.  The events themselves do seem less damaging in FTL though.
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Dec 4, 2021 13:00
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Xarn posted:gently caress DRTC PROGRESSION SYSTEM. Yeah, it's progression system is that usual kind for roguelikes, in which grinding the game makes it easier. I do, at the very least suggest The upgraded perks are almost required to beat the highest difficulties. Maybe I'll have to try and prove that statement wrong at some point in this LP, but I know it won't be easy. Sounds like we're not taking Sumo!
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Dec 4, 2021 16:26
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For me, the grind towards unlocking new things to make subsequent runs easier in roguelikes is part of the appeal. I've recently started a new run of Hades after completing the main story + epilogue (though not entirely 100%ing, I'll admit) and it has been an absolute blast figuring out what parts I'm good at by skill alone and on which parts I was depending on upgrades. So I don't mind DRTC's progression system, at least not as a first-time player, in truth, though I will agree that even for a roguelike it feels very grindy at times.
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Dec 4, 2021 17:59
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UPDATE 20: DARK WISDOM TEETH The thread has opted to leave the Sumo, by a very narrow vote!   SUMO: How could I have lost...? LANK: Huh! *brushes off hands* ALEX: ESME:  SUMO: No... I underestimated you. I must train more before I go to Canada!  GAL FIERI: I once saw a bodybuilder throw a car at some zombies! ESME: Oh NICE! Esme's morale increases to (4)ESME: He must have truly been TOO SWOLE TO CONTROL! ESME: Even perhaps... THE SWOLEN ONE. GAL FIERI: Had one real big appetite too. Never thought I'd see someone eat the entirety of a moose. ALEX: ...Why are there moose so far south anyhow?  --------------------------------- Always Be Looting While driving on the Death Road, the groip decides to make a stop for supplies: 1.Crowded Yall-Mart 2.Fancy Factory 3.Grocery Store 4.Explorer: Drive more - 34 gas --------------------------------- When in doubt, always go Y'all-Mart. Guaranteed to have some food, and a good chance to have a lot of other supplies.  --------------------------------- Crowded Yall-Mart The group sees a big Y'all-Mar. A large amount of undead protects the supplies scattered around inside. Your zombie forecast is: SWARM SIZE: Thick AGGRESSION: Sluggish CURRENT TIME: Late Morning Go bargain hunting --------------------------------- * Tunes: Rigor Mortis Rag * This'll be easy. Sluggish aggression makes almost any horde size barely a threat.  Of note is that Gal's Napalm Launcher does refill ammo between levels, I just don't really know by how much. It'd be terrible if it didn't, being her only weapon and all. It does only have half it's normal capacity as a balancing factor.  ALEX: One would think this place would've had everything nicked already. GAL FIERI: Most folks don't have a cook who can make anything taste good. LANK: HYAAAAAAH!  ALEX: Why is it always... s-skeletons?!  ESME: HI-YAH! KYAAH! SUPER SWOLE SMASH! LANK: HYAAAAH! SI-YAAAAAAAGH! ALEX: Even though they make my ears hurt, I'm rather glad they're around, y'know? GAL FIERI: HUH? WHAT DID YOU SAY?! ALEX:   ESME: GIVIN' IT! Not much really to show about this map, just the usual Y'all-Mart gameplay in a short grab-n-run.  --------------------------------- MISSION SUMMARY Found 18 food, total now 50 Found 35 gas, total now 99 Found 1 medical, total now 6 Total pistol ammo: 74 Total shotgun ammo: 68 78 zombies destroyed. --------------------------------- ESME: Lots of loot! More zombies always means better stuff. ALEX: You're a right nutter most of the time, but you're not wrong. ESME: I merely follow the TEACHINGS OF SWOLE, for they will never lead you astray. ESME: It is never too late to FEEL THE BURN, unswolen one. ALEX: You're no anoraks, but I'll still pass-  --------------------------------- DA NA NA NAAAAAAAA! Lank stumbles on a treasure chest. He opens it and lifts its contents above his head. It contained the Metal Boomerang! --------------------------------- ALEX: -Lank. Um, can I have my handbag back now that you're done doing... whatever you're doing? LANK: HYAAAGH! ALEX: Thanks. Anyways, what was I saying?  --------------------------------- Ma Hooth Gal Fieri is having near crippling tooth pain. Without access to the precision tools needed the only option is to pull the tooth out. She weighs the current options. 1. Force it out! 2. I used to be a dentist! 3. I saw this once in a cartoon! --------------------------------- ESME: No, it's not possible... ALEX: Huh? ESME: The TOOTH  LANK: WAWAUGH?! GAL FIERI: Yeah, I've had it with this. Gimme a pair of pliers!  --------------------------------- RESULT Gal Fieri grabs a pair of pliers and goes to town, pulling the tooth as hard as possible. Using nothing but will to fight through the pain, she gets the tooth out quickly and with surprisingly little trouble. Gal Fieri's strength increases to (3)--------------------------------- GAL FIERI: Hah, there! ESME: BEGONE FOUL OMEN  *stomps it into oblivion* ALEX: Overreaction, much? ESME: GAL FIERI: Nah, that's about right. It was a traitor to the Flavorville causpth. ALEX: Um, you're bleeding a bit there. GAL FIERI: Wha? Ah, I gustph thatsph to expethed. And we narrowly escape what may be the most hated event in the game. It doesn't look very bad, being a Strength/Medical/Mechanical check with a boost if succeeded, but it's a notoriously random check that deals 1 hit of lethal damage if failed. 6 strength, medical, or mechanical? Who cares, it can still hit you sometimes if it wants. Much of it's infamy comes from it's seeming habit of targeting 1 HP characters and assassinating them on a RNG roll. BERSERK characters are particularly vulnerable to the wrath of Ma Hooth.  --------------------------------- Non-Useless Junk Shop The group camps in a sturdy building. It seems to be an old repair shop, with busted machinery laying around. This would be a great time to train with repairing things, but that would make a lot of noise. The group eats a decent meal. -8 Food. Alex's morale increases to (2)1. Just go to sleep 2. Tinker all night --------------------------------- ESME: Already broken, how boring. Although, it is a good sign, means fellow DISCIPLES OF SWOLE have passed through here. ALEX: Hm, I might be able to do something with all of this stuff. LANK: Nwha? GAL FIERI: Can you make me an expanded napalm canister? ALEX: ...Um, probably not. GAL FIERI: Always time to learn! ESME: Psh, whatever. Be a lookout if you want. ALEX: Sure, I'll try to be quiet!  --------------------------------- RESULT Alex spends all night taking stuff apart and putting them back together. It's very noisy. The group will be very tired tomorrow! Alex's mechanical increases to (4)--------------------------------- ALEX: Okay! I think I'll be able to repair the van now! ALEX: ...Maybe. ESME: I'd rather just punch it if it stops. ALEX: Wha-?! *CLANG* ALEX: Rubbish, didn't mean to drop that. ESME: Again. For the seventh time. ALEX: ...My bad? I didn't mean to wake you up.  ESME: Couldn't sleep anyways. I must stay on guard after that ill omen. ALEX: What, the tooth thing? Is that also some 'teaching of the hench' or something? ESME: ...It is not. In my many attempts, the TOOTH heralds bad luck. ALEX: Many attempts? Wait, how many times have you...? ESME: ...Enough talk, time to drive.  Everyone is TIRED ALEX: Well, we're all a bit knackered, but I'm sure we can just rest up at the next trading post we find. We've got plenty of food. GAL FIERI: Yeah, sure, whatever... LANK: Hup! *stretches* Aaaaaagh.... ESME: ALEX: Oh, what about over there?  --------------------------------- Giant Spider Attack The group tries to rest but is ambushed by a giant spider! Well maybe it's a normal spider but it's gross looking. The spider is rapidly draining the group's morale! 1. Run in disgust 2. Smoosh spider --------------------------------- GAL FIERI: GET IT AWAY FROM ME ALEX: EWWWWWW LANK: EYAAAAAGGH! ESME: Foul fiend-!  --------------------------------- RESULT Esme screams BERSERKEERR! and then OBLITERATES the spider. Only a wisp of smoke remains of it. Esme's morale increases to (6)The group searches the house and finds some food! Get 2 food! --------------------------------- ESME: Psh. HOW WEAK. ALEX: Oh, thank goodness. Sometimes I don't know what we'd do without you. ESME: Hmph. It's just a bug.  --------------------------------- Trading on the Death Road Outside of Canada, most of society and civilization has been destroyed. You can still find people engaging in trade, with preserved food being the new currency. You have 44 food left. The group runs into a trading camp! 1. Visit Trader Camp 2. Finally Time To Spend That Food --------------------------------- * Tunes: What Could Possibly Go Wrong? * One random morale down on Esme later, and we've reached a camp at last. Time to show off how campfires let you rest a day so I can get this Tired debuff off before the next scheduled siege hits. But first- *misclick*  HECKIN' SON OF Didn't get to make the save backup here, so I'm locked in now. And it so happens to be a rare camp as well. Well, I've never seen this place before. Also it happens to not have a campfire so heck me even more I guess.  ESME: By the SWOLEN ONE, what...? ALEX: I never expected...this.  ARCADEMASTER: Welcome, fellow gamers! GAL FIERI: Gamers? ARCADEMASTER: You're not gamers? Why else would you be traveling with a Legendary Hero cosplayer? LANK: WAUGH?! KYAAAGH! ARCADEMASTER: Yeah, yeah, real into character, I see. Anywaaaays...  --------------------------------- Arcade Worker I'm bringing arcades back! They're going to get really popular now that the internet has been destroyed. No refunds. --------------------------------- ARCADEMASTER: Heh, I'd like to see 'em try to download ROMs for WAME now. ALEX: How are you powering these? ARCADEMASTER: That's a secret. You gonna play or what? No need to buy tokens, just shove food into the slots. GAL FIERI: How does THAT work?! Flavorville must know! ARCADEMASTER: Also a secret. Now please stop loitering and do something already.  --------------------------------- DIFFICULTY SELECT This machine gives an 80's vibe. There are golden letters onscreen that spell out: SHINY*AXE The acrade machine to run on tokens form a different arcade chain. Esme notices this and turns to look at the arcade worker, who just gives a listless shrug and looks away. Someone must have put a token in before you got here, the screen says ONE CREDIT REMAINING! and SELECT A DIFFICULTY: 1. Leave it for now 2. Esme plays on NORMAL mode 3. Esme plays on HARD mode --------------------------------- ESME: I've never seen this before. Hm... LANK: *stares in utter confusion* GAL FIERI: Do we bother? I'm getting a bad taste in my mouth. ALEX: Something about this whole thing is giving me the- ESME: IT'S A TRAP!  --------------------------------- RESULT An flying axe spins closer and closer, and then FLIES THROUGH THE SCREEN! They don't make games like this anymore! Esme gets smashed right in the face by the axe, handle first! The arcade worker is pretty happy about this, as it's less cleanup than the other end would have required. Esme is KILLED! The screen glitches out as the axe clatters to the floor. --------------------------------- EVERYONE:  ARCADEMASTER: AHAHAHA! THREAT ELIMINATED! ARCADEMASTER: NOW YOU'LL NEVER MAKE IT TO CANADA! *THUNDERCLAP*  LANK: AAAAAAUGH! GAL FIERI: GAAAAH! ALEX: ESMEEEEEE!  ESME: Please don't throw my skeleton around. ALEX: Esme, no! ESME: Ahaha... I let my guard down. Should've just... smashed it all... ALEX: Hey, stay with me! You were right mental, but you were cool! Stay with meeeee! ESME: The GOD OF FUR*cough*niture... will see me returned. But this time...they got me... ESME: Looks like it won't be this run for me... ALEX: Why did you jump in front of me?! WHY?! ESME: You must... you... are- ESME:  ALEX:  ALEX: *sniff* I... I'll be fine. I don't think it's fully hit me yet. GAL FIERI: ...What now? LANK: *puts hands on hips* ALEX: ...We go to Canada.  --------------------------------- Road Punchers 2: The New Punchers This is an old arcade machine for the famous classic fighting games: ROAD PUNCHERS This machine has been converted to run ofn food instead of quarters. It's 10 food to pick a character. For reasons unknown, it looks like almost all the characters are grayed out... You have 44 food left. 1. Leave it for now 2. Pick SAGUTS - 10 food 3. Pick BRYU - 10 food --------------------------------- GAL FIERI: Think we should disable the rest of these traps? ALEX: ...Y-yeah. *POOF*  ALEX: What.  --------------------------------- THE PLOT THICKENS BRYU is ready to test his strength on the road of punching. Bryu's strength revealed as almost (5)Bryu's fitness revealed as almost (5)HADOOK! HADOOK! KADOOSHIN'! --------------------------------- LANK: HYAAGH!  BRYU: HADOOK! ALEX: Were you trapped in there? BRYU: KADOOSHIN'! ALEX: ...I guess that's a yes. Come along if you want.  --------------------------------- Strange Arcade Machine This is a new looking arcade machine. There are giant letters onscreen that spell out: FIRE EXPLODERS This machine has been converted to run on food, so the coin slot is enormous. There's only one button. Instead of any sort of gameplay, the machine displays a roaring fire behind the title... 1. Leave it for now 2. Alex plays for 10 food --------------------------------- GAL FIERI: I like this one. No way this one's a trap. ALEX: Only one way to know, get ready to duck!  --------------------------------- Forged in the Fire On putting in the food and touching the button, the arcade machine IMMEDIATELY EXPLODES! Real Mature! Alex gets burnt up in a big fireball! However, she is alive and only mildly irritated. Alex's skin feels strangely cool. Alex is HURT! Lose 10 food! --------------------------------- ALEX: OW! DANG IT! GAL FIERI: Holy moly, Stromboli! I love it!  BRYU: HWAH? LANK: WAAAU- guh? ALEX: ...Huh. It doesn't hurt as much as I'd think it would.  --------------------------------- Mystery Arcade Game This arcade machine has its coin slot replaced with a big drop bin that says PUT FOOD IN HERE above it. It's not even clear what game it's supposed to be, the only thing on screen is a message that says: CONTINUE: 2 FOOD You have 24 food left. 1. Leave it for now 2. Alex plays for 2 food ---------------------------------  --------------------------------- RESULT Alex continues the arcade game. The screen is full of moving shapes. It's really impossible to tell what's going on, and yet she feels completely engrossed. The game ends in a flash, yet it is burned into Alex's mind. There's still no clue on what the game is even called. Alex's shooting revealed and increased! --------------------------------- ALEX: Fascinating... GAL FIERI: This one seems harmless enough.  Alex's shooting increases! Lost 4 food. ALEX: Must play again... GAL FIERI: Um. This doesn't seem so funkalicious. BRYU: WHAH! LANK: SI-YAAAHGH! *SMASH*  ALEX: What happened?! ALEX: Actually, nevermind, let's just go.  * Tunes: Every Step of the Way * ...That could have gone better.  LANK: KYAAAAAAA! KYAAAAAAAAAA! KYAAAAAAAAAAAAA! *Swerve left* LANK: KYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUGH! *Swerve right* BRYU: KADOOSHIN'?! GAL FIERI: Yeah. I don't know why I thought letting him drive would be a good idea. ALEX: It's... *hic* ... okay, I'll... drive ...*sniff* ALEX: LANK: WAAAUWAAAUAAAGGGH!  Alex is fully healed by BRYU! BRYU's medical revealed as almost (1)Lose 3 medical. Alex: H-huh? BRYU: HMPH! ALEX: Oh... I didn't notice my hands were burned. Um... thanks for the handwraps. BRYU: ALEX: I guess, you've done this before huh? *BRAKES SCREECHING* LANK: HYAAAAAAAAAUUUUUGH! GAL FIERI: Oh, HECK!  --------------------------------- Tunnel Gauntlet The group accidentally disturbs a lot of undead while scouting a city. This causes a chain reaction of blunders, and they are soon surrounded. Their only chance is running through a tunnel in the road. Your zombie forecast is: SWARM SIZE: Very Thick!!! AGGRESSION: Mega-Cheesed CURRENT TIME: Noon Try to Survive --------------------------------- * Tunes: RNG- MEGA CHEESED * EVERYONE:  Well, this is fun. Do note that our team still hasn't had a chance to sleep. Bryu's the only one here without tanked combat stats. So, uh, thread, pick your favorite character on the team. i swear all of this wasnt on purpose, thread, blame the cursed tooth Left 4 Bread fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 17:15
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And heeeerrrrrreee comes the death spiral. I'm picking Lank.
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Dec 6, 2021 17:23
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Well that was a rude arcade machine, haha. Maybe next time. Alex. Gal Fieri as a second, but the parodies are fun for a bit, just generally less interesting than the user submitted characters.
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Dec 6, 2021 18:33
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I find it inordinately amusing that the character art style means that Alex must survive, she's the only sane member of the crew, plus we'd damned well better make sure that at least someone survives that can use language. That said, can she actually use that axe effectively?
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Dec 6, 2021 18:40
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Gotta be L*nk, for sure. What a hilarious and frustrating way to lose a character. Love this idiot game.
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Dec 6, 2021 19:07
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Oh my god this game  I love the parody characters but Alex is the pin holding this insane bunch to the world.
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Dec 6, 2021 19:28
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Alex is the rock that'll keep this lets play from getting sued Gal Fieri had a good(?) run but i'm sure the last 25 fuel points of flavour-ville will be funny
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Dec 6, 2021 19:48
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 18:56 |
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Alex is going to need player help to survive. The others have more of a chance of making it on their own. Not a good chance, but more than her.
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Dec 6, 2021 20:34
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