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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:or why they feel the need to defend them. You know why. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 9, 2023 18:56
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theshim posted:like an absolute FOOL I decided to see some of the replies E: lol this too? disposablewords posted:You know why. Are mods on an adderall high rn VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 19:30 on May 9, 2023 |
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May 9, 2023 19:25
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VitalSigns posted:This probe sucks, this thread is fine, we don't need mods smacking hands with rulers for a little banter I'm trying to be more proactive, as I've missed infringing posts that weren't reported recently. The first post was probed due to not offering anything informative, interesting or humorous. If you have any further questions or concerns, please PM me or provide feedback in the next thread.
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May 9, 2023 19:32
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Who is that post accusing of bad faith? Other than the people on twitter trying to make excuses for neo nazis? There is no poster in the forum being accused of that and I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point of the thread if you expect people to pretend that its subjects are unimpeachable in their argumentative rigor. And also quite possibly you need to work on your reading comprehension in general. I also suggested at length that libertarians are not arguing in good faith so if that's against the rules you'd best go and probe that one as well. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:54 on May 9, 2023 |
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May 9, 2023 19:50
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SlothfulCobra posted:Brace yourself for this one. I'm going to make a bold and daring claim here that "Tucker Carlson is a socialist" is not a statement made in good faith.
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May 9, 2023 20:13
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OwlFancier posted:Who is that post accusing of bad faith? Other than the people on twitter trying to make excuses for neo nazis? There is no poster in the forum being accused of that and I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point of the thread if you expect people to pretend that its subjects are unimpeachable in their argumentative rigor. And also quite possibly you need to work on your reading comprehension in general. Mr. Trotsky said he has no idea why something is the case, and the post said he does know, which would mean he is acting in bad faith.
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May 9, 2023 20:33
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Do you think that that post is: A: Accusing the poster of pretending like they genuinely do not know why somebody would defend neo nazis as a malicious argumentative tactic for some reason. Or: B: Suggesting that the the poster is affording their subject matter unnecessary charity, and that their subject is probably just a horrible human being and that's why they'd run interference for neo nazis, and is exhorting them convivially to indulge their cynical impulses when dealing with such people. Because I think one of those is far more consistent with how people normally speak to each other. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:47 on May 9, 2023 |
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May 9, 2023 20:40
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Really weird to see several of the big libertarian accounts go with "this was a false flag set up to make Nazis look bad" take. And for Elon to be really going all in on this. Basically anything that supports a left wing narrative must have been a false flag, and anything that supports a right wing narrative is always suppressed by the evil state media. In this case, she points out that damning things about the Nazi shooter came out immediately, while it took longer to release similar info about leftist mass shooters. The "Transifesto" as she calls it hasn't been released yet apparently which she interperets as being because it will have things really incriminating to the left. In her vivid imagination this Transifesto is 300 pages of "I got manipulated into getting my tits and uterus hacked off and killing Christians is my only recourse" so of COURSE the woke government doesn't want you to know the shooter wrote that! 
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May 9, 2023 20:42
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I don't think Disposablewords was actually literally accusing me of bad faith. I was just saying it is crazy why the libertarians seem to be openly running interference for the Neo-Nazi, while the conservatives seem to have settled on "he definitely did do it, but he was Hispanic and in a gang, so this means Biden is weak on the border and immigrants are killing people." There was already an existing narrative they could jump on. Disposablewords was just saying that they are obviously fond of the Neo Nazis and can't resist defending them.Panfilo posted:This is their rhetoric every time a nazi kills people. There's been previous shooters who were blatantly right wing and Redheaded Libertarian accused them of being "glowies" (fed plants I assume). Yeah, but why are the libertarians seemingly creating this new narrative that is a defense of the Neo-Nazi instead of jumping on the existing narrative by the right or just staying out? The MTG/far right narrative is that he was a Mexican gang member and likely part of a cartel who was enabled by Biden's weakness on the border. They were on the same page for the trans shooter and others, but this time there is a coordinated effort by multiple different libertarian media stars/groups to go with the "government false flag to defame Neo Nazi" instead of hopping on the "official" conservative narrative like they usually do.
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May 9, 2023 20:48
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I would suggest that both groups are prone to conspiracy thinking, although yes they do generally converge on a single conservative narrative with most things. But it isn't enormously surprising that occasionally they could diverge. With enough events it's likely to happen occasionally. There is a contingent of fairly open christian dominionist/neo nazis on the right so there's always going to be a tension between them and the ones who are a little wary of going to bat for neo nazis for public image reasons even if they aren't really that opposed to them politically. It's just generally very difficult to predict where splits might occur because the right is often a lot more unified than they should be if they held to actual ideological beliefs, it's just that a lot of the time they are willing to bend or break what you might expect would be ideological commitments for convenience or to rally around an idol. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:59 on May 9, 2023 |
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May 9, 2023 20:54
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OwlFancier posted:I would suggest that both groups are prone to conspiracy thinking, although yes they do generally converge on a single conservative narrative with most things. But it isn't enormously surprising that occasionally they could diverge occasionally. With enough events it's likely to happen occasionally. Yeah, but if you are going to diverge and branch out on your own unique narrative, then "government trying to falsely defame Neo Nazi" is basically the absolute worst possible choice to go with. I don't know the exact timeline, so I'm not sure if some major libertarian poster threw it out there and a bunch of others jumped on or if a bunch of different libertarian public figures came to the same general conclusion, but it is baffling that out of all the conspiracies you could think of, that "well, those SS and Swastika tattoos could mean literally anything. And they are probably fake anyway. Isn't it a little convenient that the government is claiming the guy with Nazi tattoos was a Neo Nazi... when he was also Hispanic! This is just unfairly maligning Nazis." was the one you decided to go with.
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May 9, 2023 20:59
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OwlFancier posted:Do you think that that post is: That very well may be the case, but this is why it's important to be explicit about what one is saying.
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May 9, 2023 21:01
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I suppose it depends on how much you like nazis. I don't doubt that quite a few of them do, there isn't a world of difference between neo nazis and the rest of the far/alt right except that some of them just don't like the optics. But libertarians are already "the age of consent weirdos" so I don't know if they care about optics other than for like, personal reasons, so they can convince themselves that they're very big brained and thoughtful rather than just guzzling the sludgy condensed runoff of decades of right wing propaganda.
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May 9, 2023 21:03
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I think you'd have to take a remarkably uncharitable attitude to the poster to read that as hostile or an accusation of bad faith. But that is just my opinion, for a definitive ruling I move we submit this matter to arbitration by Valhalla DRO's valkyrie court
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May 9, 2023 21:15
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Yeah, but if you are going to diverge and branch out on your own unique narrative, then "government trying to falsely defame Neo Nazi" is basically the absolute worst possible choice to go with. They aren't accusing the government of defaming a Neo Nazi, they're accusing the government of defaming them by creating a fake Neo Nazi shooter who listens to the Tim Pool show and agrees with Pool's "race realism" and "concerns about the danger LGBT folks pose to kids" Just like they always do whenever someone puts their violent racist and homophobic rhetoric into practice. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:44 on May 9, 2023 |
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May 9, 2023 21:37
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“Proof against the conspiracy is proof OF the conspiracy!” is a nice classic throwback lol gently caress Nazis, though, and gently caress this lady. I think that the only reason she calls herself a Libertarian is because it’s seen as anti-establishment by idiots who she’s courting
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May 9, 2023 21:39
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She's not defending neo Nazis. She thinks the government makes up neo Nazi backgrounds of these folks to push an anti right wing narrative. She also thinks it's intended to draw attention away from the trans shooter. Her evidence is that Bellingcat, an apparently government psy Op organization suddenly had all this background info on the Nazi shooter yet the guy didn't have a Twitter account. The photos of tattoos are either an entirely different person or a photoshop (the guy has a neck tattoo not visible in the Nazi arm tattoo picture, therefore they can't be the same guy by their logic).
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May 9, 2023 21:55
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VitalSigns posted:who listens to the Tim Pool show
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May 9, 2023 21:56
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Another sus thing about this particular libertarian: Her initial gimmick was railing about covid policies. She was previously banned from Twitter for posting covid misinformation. When Musk took over Twitter she gets brought back in but since people stopped caring about covid around then she moved on to the next boogeyman. Briefly it was about censorship and the Twitter files but then she went whole hog on the anti trans stuff. The reason this is relavent: originally she had moved from Massachusetts to Florida "because of covid policies". She and her family are not vaxxed of course, even though her daughter has some ultra rare autoimmune disease so I think she didn't want to feel forced to get vaccinated for stuff and Florida supposedly made that easier. However, when she leaned into the anti trans stuff suddenly she revealed the OTHER reason she left on TimCast: Her daughter's school had sent a letter using they/them pronouns for her (she posted bits of the letter) and when she bravely confronted the school they said they didn't want to just assume the student was a girl. This was apparently so offensive to this Karen that she moved her entire family over a thousand miles away to avoid it. Oh and in her daughters school everyone was lgbt because it was the cool thing to do and her daughter thought she was a lesbian but then when they moved to Florida she didn't feel lesbian anymore  .Awfully coincidental how much her life decisions align with her ideology at the time! The fact that she's got a medically fragile daughter suggest that kind of arbitrary move would be difficult-you'd need services to treat your kids rare disease. I doubt she moved for either of the reasons she stated and it was probably more mundane.
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May 9, 2023 22:10
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I think you are all over thinking this, the line of thought it: Nazi's are culturally a bad thing. Proclaimed Nazi's believe the same thing I do. I am not a bad person. My beliefs aren't the problem. Therefore, this person is made up to make me and my movement look bad.
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May 9, 2023 23:39
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Mooseontheloose posted:I think you are all over thinking this, the line of thought it: Don't forget: I can't denounce the Nazi's racist beliefs and distance my podcast from them because my revenue comes from pandering to my audience's identical racist beliefs
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May 10, 2023 00:03
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Koos Group posted:That very well may be the case, but this is why it's important to be explicit about what one is saying. How about appointing an IK or waiting for someone who follows the thread before handing out probes for posts that weren't even reported? Because those were incredibly bad shoots which would have been avoided if you had any context for this thread.
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May 10, 2023 01:39
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I've been reading this thread for a long time, and I think there's a kind of equivalence with the Scandahoovian threads in that the people posting in those, and by extension here, know what they're talking about, and it's not necessarily always a debate so much as it is "look at this crazy lady shooting at a moose", which could be applicable to both threads. Having someone like Caros (I'm sorry for calling you out buddy) or other thread regular as a thread-specific idiot king might be better, since they understand the thread culture and all the tropes and lore about jrod and so on. Libertarians are kind of a goon safari, but they're also present in US political discourse, so this thread, in my opinion, serves a purpose on the Dungeons and Debates forum.
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May 10, 2023 01:51
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The libertarian lady in question has 3 kids. Which makes me wonder what it must be like to have a woman like this as your mom. Will she be as snide and abrasive to her own brood? Or is this one of those "I had no idea my mom was giving trans people death threats online or raising money for fascist groups, to us she was just the mom that baked fancy pies and went to all our football games!" situations?
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May 10, 2023 03:27
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Panfilo posted:The libertarian lady in question has 3 kids. Which makes me wonder what it must be like to have a woman like this as your mom. Will she be as snide and abrasive to her own brood? Or is this one of those "I had no idea my mom was giving trans people death threats online or raising money for fascist groups, to us she was just the mom that baked fancy pies and went to all our football games!" situations?
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May 10, 2023 03:37
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Panfilo posted:The libertarian lady in question has 3 kids. Which makes me wonder what it must be like to have a woman like this as your mom. Will she be as snide and abrasive to her own brood? Or is this one of those "I had no idea my mom was giving trans people death threats online or raising money for fascist groups, to us she was just the mom that baked fancy pies and went to all our football games!" situations? I would imagine she’s an abusive narcissist like every other online freak.
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May 10, 2023 04:03
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Nope! She's much more in the "hot mommy" phase of things, which is why she's so attractive to the terminally divorced fans that love everything she says and does. She's got vaguely tradwifey posts here and there but NEVER mentions her husband and her kids often get mentioned as some ideological cudgel (ie "I don't want some trans identified freak using the same locker room as my daughters or stealing opportunities from them in sports"). She also looks similar to the Olsen lady who plays scarlet witch and likely retouches her photos heavily to push the resemblance.
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May 10, 2023 04:07
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I'll cop to it being a low-effort post in a board that I didn't remember in the moment as being more strict about that. (I'm kind of bad at checking the board when replying to a thread, whoops.) It's already done and gone, oh well, no fuss.Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Disposablewords was just saying that they are obviously fond of the Neo Nazis and can't resist defending them. But yeah this is where I was going in a dry joshing sort of way, nothing bad meant and no hard feelings I hope. Anyway, re: actual subject, I don't find it that complicated. Libertarianism, what little isn't just off-brand GOP, has long loved conspiracism and alarmism over lots of stupid bullshit, not infrequently involving race. The conspiracism has become much more right-wing mainstream but it's still a libertarian specialty along with the rest of their magical thinking. RHL is also blatantly a goddamn liar who happily betrays her professed beliefs at the drop of a hat, you can see that even in the small handful of tweets shared here. Assuming she's not just a blithering idiot lucky enough to stand out from the rest of her blithering idiot cohort on Twitter, then she's still a FYGM attention-seeker who probably has enough savvy to realize that you don't stand out by parroting the party line. Go even further, play to that conspiracism that comes so naturally to her, dangle some red meat, enjoy the attention. That her particular claims also try to deflect things away from Nazism isn't really a surprise to me either. Racism is many a conspiracy theorist's stock in trade, especially anti-Semitism. It was all over their recent-ish little saint Ron Paul, who certainly didn't seem to have any problems with Nazis. They've been fellow travelers in US politics for rather a while now. I genuinely wonder if, given the pervasiveness of the past few decades that "left-wing = big government, right-wing = small government" that people have just somehow forgotten that the Nazis were all in favor of having an oppressive, controlling Big Government. Which helps funnel in anyone who starts off genuinely believing what they say they believe in. More likely, of course, my brain's just off on a nonsense tangent when pondering that, and it's just that they're full of crap and happy to have an oppressive state that they think will let them stomp on everything they find icky. They just feel compelled to take some extra steps when dressing it up to make themselves feel more special about it. Blithering idiots and blatant liars, after all.
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May 10, 2023 04:08
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Libertarians have always been in favor of a big oppressive government too, as long as it's repressing the right people. Their favorite countries—South Africa and Rhodesia—weren't exactly known for their small government principles.
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May 10, 2023 04:55
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Panfilo posted:Nope! She's much more in the "hot mommy" phase of things, which is why she's so attractive to the terminally divorced fans that love everything she says and does. She's got vaguely tradwifey posts here and there but NEVER mentions her husband and her kids often get mentioned as some ideological cudgel (ie "I don't want some trans identified freak using the same locker room as my daughters or stealing opportunities from them in sports"). She also looks similar to the Olsen lady who plays scarlet witch and likely retouches her photos heavily to push the resemblance. That in no way prevents her from being an abusive narcissist. If anything, quite the opposite. These people make a great presentation about the appearance of caring for their kids while the actual kids are lucky if she just ignores them.
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May 10, 2023 05:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:That in no way prevents her from being an abusive narcissist. If anything, quite the opposite. These people make a great presentation about the appearance of caring for their kids while the actual kids are lucky if she just ignores them. I think that was in response to the poster who thought she was in the barely legal sexpot phase of internet fame.
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May 10, 2023 05:23
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Man, the chudgrift seems so pathetic. Real jobs are so much more dignified (and less destructive to society).
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May 10, 2023 10:16
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VitalSigns posted:Libertarians have always been in favor of a big oppressive government too, as long as it's repressing the right people. Their favorite countries—South Africa and Rhodesia—weren't exactly known for their small government principles. The American flavor of libertarianism is ok with the states oppressing people so long as the federal government isn't doing it. Mostly because the Federal Government is in charge of civil rights prosecutions.
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May 10, 2023 12:46
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Libertarians are also pro-Confederacy, so from that perspective you could say that South Africa and Rhodesia weren't small government enough. Their laws defined non-whites as humans so their segregation policies necessarily entailed a bunch of Big Government to make and enforce laws on who could live where and use which bathrooms and so on. If they had defined non-whites as property instead then individual private landowners would be managing all that with the state "limited" to merely enforcing their private property rights.
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May 10, 2023 15:00
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Professor Shark posted:Man, the chudgrift seems so pathetic. Real jobs are so much more dignified (and less destructive to society). I'm pretty sure this whole thing is a side hustle for her. Getting the ear of Elon Musk might have made it more lucrative, but aside from that being one of Tim Pools lackeys can't be that great money wise. I can't remember what her husband does but she's some kind of physical therapist; I wouldn't be surprised if her anti vaccine attitudes created issue with her licensing or something.
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May 10, 2023 16:47
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Koos Group posted:That very well may be the case, but this is why it's important to be explicit about what one is saying. I realise that moderation is difficult, but this really does seem to be an error entirely on your part and the poster did nothing wrong whatsoever.
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May 10, 2023 19:45
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It's very deliberate moderation policy to enforce a certain tone and style, and if that's what USPOL regulars want more power to them, but nobody asked for it in here (literally no one asked for it, if those posts weren't even reported). In other words: HootTheOwl posted:How about appointing an IK or waiting for someone who follows the thread before handing out probes for posts that weren't even reported? I mean I guess you could make it your mission to turn all of D&D into USPOL but that's probably just going to kill threads like this because making fun of libertarians is the only draw, there's no libertarians left to have a serious debate-club rules debate with.
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May 10, 2023 20:43
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divabot posted:I realise that moderation is difficult, but this really does seem to be an error entirely on your part and the poster did nothing wrong whatsoever. Pretty much. But it is hard for some people to acknowledge, or even recognize, that they made a mistake. predicto fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 10, 2023 |
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May 10, 2023 22:04
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Funny, I thought these folks were all about states rights? https://twitter.com/LibertyLockPod/status/1656341089559666688?t=iyaSm1R8uaHP_OocbfebTQ&s=19
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May 10, 2023 23:52
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Just mentally find-replace "child" with "slave."
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May 10, 2023 23:58
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