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Yeah, but prior to that loving episode of Enterprise, when did anyone say the Borg were headed to Earth when Q forced first contact?
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Jun 30, 2016 18:42
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Tectonis posted:Everyone is talking about these timelines and poo poo but the borg knew about the Federation as soon as they assimilated the Hanson's and that was like at least a decade before the Q forced their encounter. Because of you're talking about time travel, you have to look at the entire timeline. The earliest point on the timeline would be when the Borg crashed in Antarctica or wherever in the events in First Contact.
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Jun 30, 2016 18:44
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Sunswipe posted:Yeah, but prior to that loving episode of Enterprise, when did anyone say the Borg were headed to Earth when Q forced first contact? They were on the outskirts of the Delta Quadrant, so it's sort of implied. Sort of not implied, too, because Q makes it a point that now that they're aware of the Federation they'll never stop looking for them.
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Jun 30, 2016 18:46
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Sunswipe posted:To steal a point from SF Debris, you have to remember that Torres was someone who literally couldn't identify poo poo with a tricorder. I thought that's what the Borg did, except they just take everything and make it Bork too
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Jun 30, 2016 18:48
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Iron Crowned posted:I thought that's what the Borg did, except they just take everything and make it Bork too Please do not confuse the Borg with Supreme Court Justice Robert Bork
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Jun 30, 2016 18:50
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Iron Crowned posted:I thought that's what the Borg did, except they just take everything and make it Bork too Bork? Sounds Swedish...
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Jun 30, 2016 18:51
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Iron Crowned posted:I thought that's what the Borg did, except they just take everything and make it Bork too Exactly what the Borg do seems to change with the whims of the series/writers. In TNG the Borg basically don't give a gently caress about you if your technology/biology isn't interesting and probably wouldn't bother to assimilate you. Then in Voyager then queen/hive mind or whatever is like straight up "we need more organisms, go to this planet and harvest" with the strong impression that they just want more bodies instead of anything interesting at that location. Probably the only time that Voyager was more  than the other shows.
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Jun 30, 2016 18:54
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The Borg turned up their nose at the Kazon, though. They have standards.
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Jun 30, 2016 18:55
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Iron Crowned posted:I thought that's what the Borg did, except they just take everything and make it Bork too That was the claim, and on Voyager the Queen never shut about the millions of civilizations they'd assimilated. Every time they showed the Borg, though, they were just 3 cubes hanging out in a space cloud, scheming against Janeway.
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Jun 30, 2016 18:57
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Why would a long range science vessel like Voyager not have an astrometrics lab by default? They spend 100% of their time in space. Accurate star maps are important.
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Jun 30, 2016 18:59
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plushpuffin posted:The Borg turned up their nose at the Kazon, though. They have standards. Better standards than people who kept watching Voyager.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:00
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Neelix threw spaghetti on Tom then Tom threw spaghetti on Neelix
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Jun 30, 2016 19:01
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Volcott posted:Why would a long range science vessel like Voyager not have an astrometrics lab by default? They spend 100% of their time in space. Accurate star maps are important. That was an upgraded lab incorporating Borg technology. They started with a less capable lab.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:02
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Chomp8645 posted:Exactly what the Borg do seems to change with the whims of the series/writers. In TNG the Borg basically don't give a gently caress about you if your technology/biology isn't interesting and probably wouldn't bother to assimilate you. Then in Voyager then queen/hive mind or whatever is like straight up "we need more organisms, go to this planet and harvest" with the strong impression that they just want more bodies instead of anything interesting at that location. Well, despite the fact that they Voyager'd it in the end, if I recall that sort of made sense. The Borg don't have creativity, the best they have is to just take it from other species. When they came across a species they couldn't adapt to via the standard small scale one or two ships will dominate tactic, overwhelming power is their best option. One cube doesn't work, try two. Two cubes don't work, try four, etc. criscodisco posted:That was the claim, and on Voyager the Queen never shut about the millions of civilizations they'd assimilated. Every time they showed the Borg, though, they were just 3 cubes hanging out in a space cloud, scheming against Janeway. well, yeah, because it is Voyager.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:03
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Hector Beerlioz posted:Neelix threw spaghetti on Tom then Tom threw spaghetti on Neelix If this is a euphemism please do not explain it.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:03
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criscodisco posted:Because of you're talking about time travel, you have to look at the entire timeline. The earliest point on the timeline would be when the Borg crashed in Antarctica or wherever in the events in First Contact. But causally speaking they only crashed into Antarctica because they had come over to gently caress with Earth, which they learned about via the Hansen's at the very latest, and any of the species that bordered Federation at the earliest. The entire argument that the ENT episode closes some causal loop is hogwash since before the ~200 years was up the Hansens had encountered a cube and traveled through a transwarp conduit so the Borg were already cosmically close to the Federations borders.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:03
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plushpuffin posted:If this is a euphemism please do not explain it. They were fighting over Kes
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Jun 30, 2016 19:04
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plushpuffin posted:That was an upgraded lab incorporating Borg technology. They started with a less capable lab. Well, yeah, basically Voyager started out with the base trim level. They weren't planning to show up in the Gamma Quadrant and have to go home from that far away, so they had the cassette deck of astrophysics labs, then put in one of those neat ones with GPS and satellite radio later.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:05
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Tectonis posted:But causally speaking they only crashed into The entire argument that the ENT episode closes some causal loop is hogwash since before the ~200 years was up the Hansens had encountered a cube and traveled through a transwarp conduit so the Borg were already cosmically close to the Federations borders. I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's obviously what the writers were going for.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:06
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Chomp8645 posted:Probably the only time that Voyager was more Everyone in the Trek thread likes to say that Voyager made the Borg stop being scary, but I think it's the other way around. TNG Borg were a cool idea, but the idea of a massive civilization out there in space snapping up entire planets at a time with zero remorse is much more terrifying. Also the brief scenes in Voyager they showed off hundreds of cubes entering low orbit and beaming about inhabitants by the thousands for mass assimilation. Anyway ,the Federation and the Borg have the exact same agenda, just different methods. At least when the Borg assimilate a culture, that culture's unique presence and history is recorded and will be remembered for the entirety of time, but every time the Federation takes in a new culture they immediately make it look exactly like every other genetic Federation planet.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:06
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Iron Crowned posted:Well, yeah, basically Voyager started out with the base trim level. They weren't planning to show up in the Gamma Quadrant and have to go home from that far away, so they had the cassette deck of astrophysics labs, then put in one of those neat ones with GPS and satellite radio later. It's cool that starfleet gave them that tricobalt thing, just in case they needed to blow up a moon on the way back from the neutral zone.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:07
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And don't forget that in Generations aren't Guinan and Malcolm Macdowell's characters escaping their entire planet getting assimilated? So that happens like ~50 years before TNG, yet during that entire time, no one bothered to ask them what, exactly, they were refugee-ing from?
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Jun 30, 2016 19:07
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criscodisco posted:Anyway ,the Federation and the Borg have the exact same agenda, just different methods. At least when the Borg assimilate a culture, that culture's unique presence and history is recorded and will be remembered for the entirety of time, but every time the Federation takes in a new culture they immediately make it look exactly like every other genetic Federation planet. Just admit that you're a Maquis sympathizer.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:08
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plushpuffin posted:Just admit that you're a Maquis sympathizer. You beat me to a Mr. Eddington joke.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:09
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So what's the over/under for when the new series gets a Borg episode?
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Jun 30, 2016 19:11
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criscodisco posted:Everyone in the Trek thread likes to say that Voyager made the Borg stop being scary, but I think it's the other way around. TNG Borg were a cool idea, but the idea of a massive civilization out there in space snapping up entire planets at a time with zero remorse is much more terrifying. Also the brief scenes in Voyager they showed off hundreds of cubes entering low orbit and beaming about inhabitants by the thousands for mass assimilation. Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission All of which are Federation dreams All of which are Federation dreams All of which are Federation dreams
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Jun 30, 2016 19:13
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criscodisco posted:Everyone in the Trek thread likes to say that Voyager made the Borg stop being scary, but I think it's the other way around. TNG Borg were a cool idea, but the idea of a massive civilization out there in space snapping up entire planets at a time with zero remorse is much more terrifying. Also the brief scenes in Voyager they showed off hundreds of cubes entering low orbit and beaming about inhabitants by the thousands for mass assimilation. With just how far the Borg are from Federation space in Voyager, I suspect that they operate in some kind of node like method. Spread out, assimilate the areas, and keep going. So basically you'd have more of a communicational relay system for how the hive-mind communicates amongst itself. I suspect that once an area becomes large enough, or active enough as a node, it develops a queen and semi-autonomy. Meaning that while the Borg "home" encountered in Voyager was probably in contact with the "Colony" that encountered Federation space, they were probably also semi-autonomous. This also explains how Lore's cube managed to get cut off. The Borg central collective can probably do that to entire nodes or chains of nodes if required. Volcott posted:It's cool that starfleet gave them that tricobalt thing, just in case they needed to blow up a moon on the way back from the neutral zone. Meh? DrBouvenstein posted:And don't forget that in Generations aren't Guinan and Malcolm Macdowell's characters escaping their entire planet getting assimilated? So that happens like ~50 years before TNG, yet during that entire time, no one bothered to ask them what, exactly, they were refugee-ing from? I dunno, Guinan was always enigmatic, and if you're one of the last of your people, fleeing safety from something that left you as one of the few remaining of your species, you'd probably want to keep pretty quite about it, especially if no one gives a poo poo about where your from. It's probably why she didn't end up among the Romulans
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Jun 30, 2016 19:16
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I seem to remember Q tripping about Guinan and telling Picard her people were super dangerous or something... did anything ever come of that?
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Jun 30, 2016 19:17
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Roylicious posted:I seem to remember Q tripping about Guinan and telling Picard her people were super dangerous or something... did anything ever come of that? Yeah, literally the first time that the Enterprise encounters the Borg in season 2, but not really, Guinan is pretty chill
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Jun 30, 2016 19:20
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I do remember thinking 'super dangerous but still got Borg'd lol' when she was talking about her home planet getting wrecked.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:21
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Roylicious posted:I seem to remember Q tripping about Guinan and telling Picard her people were super dangerous or something... did anything ever come of that? Nothing at all.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:23
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Why am I devoting this much brain power to Star Trek? Oh yeah, I'm at work, which is not preferable to watching Voyager
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Jun 30, 2016 19:27
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Chomp8645 posted:Nothing at all. Or because she was a Mystical Alien of Color and the writers wanted to keep the door open in case they decided she was a
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Jun 30, 2016 19:31
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Volcott posted:The gold NX got put in a drawer to make room for the fish tank. No, it's IN the fish tank. Along with a little model of a pirates chest, and a borged skeleton.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:36
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FilthyImp posted:You could argue that they were super dangerous because Standard Starfleet Drama Protocol would demand they investigate what happened to her people, leading to premature Borgosis. Well that's sort of out the window, since it was Q's designation of dangerous, not Starfleets. Q doesn't really give a poo poo about the Borg, other than a tool to intimidate Picard.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:42
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criscodisco posted:Well that's sort of out the window, since it was Q's designation of dangerous, not Starfleets. Q doesn't really give a poo poo about the Borg, other than a tool to intimidate Picard. Yeah, Guinan is probably the only person who could trick Q into saying his name backwards
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Jun 30, 2016 19:43
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criscodisco posted:Well that's sort of out the window, since it was Q's designation of dangerous, not Starfleets. Q doesn't really give a poo poo about the Borg, other than a tool to intimidate Picard. Actually in the abortion of an episode Q2, Dad Q tells Son Q "Don't provoke the Borg!" as if there's some kind of danger the robot zombies could ever put the Q into.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:00
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Jun 30, 2016 20:06
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FrensaGeran posted:Actually in the abortion of an episode Q2, Dad Q tells Son Q "Don't provoke the Borg!" as if there's some kind of danger the robot zombies could ever put the Q into. If you provoke the Borg, they'll wipe out the uniqueness of all these little species I find so fascinating! If I wanted to hang out with a bunch of single-minded and powerful drones, I'd stay in the Continuum.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:07
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FrensaGeran posted:Actually in the abortion of an episode Q2, Dad Q tells Son Q "Don't provoke the Borg!" as if there's some kind of danger the robot zombies could ever put the Q into. The borg seek perfection and omnipotent creatures are a lot closer to it than they are, so it would really just be like seven hundred trillion clingy autistic nice guys following Q around all over the galaxy and that's probably just irritating
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Jun 30, 2016 20:13
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