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Metalshark posted:I'm quite lapsed these days with Warhammer novels and fluff but I still enjoy following this thread, so what are the messed up aspects of the Tau, may I ask? I've never paid much attention to them. They're still a brutal expansionist empire who will kill everyone on your planet, they just ask you to join up first. Also strict caste system and their leaders do some mind control bullshit.
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Jan 19, 2022 17:16
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Bucnasti posted:It's also that relatively few members of the Imperium even know what chaos even is, ignorance is one of the foundations of the Imperium. So when you're a poo poo shoveler in a hive There's a good bit in The Reverie where a labourer in a waterweel hydroelectric powerplant turns to Tzeentch after becoming obsessed with working the wheels. When the Angels Resplendent purge the place, the captain goes "why is this place even here, we have plasma generators that could power the whole planet without mangling the workers"
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Jan 19, 2022 17:24
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The new Hammer and Bolter today is pretty good. Features the Black Legion and Necrons as well as a cameo by Abaddon.
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Jan 19, 2022 17:49
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In the meantime https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/19/i-will-die-on-the-hill-of-a-womans-right-to-geek-danie-ware-talks-about-her-new-novel/
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Jan 19, 2022 18:04
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Covermeinsunshine posted:In the meantime https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/19/i-will-die-on-the-hill-of-a-womans-right-to-geek-danie-ware-talks-about-her-new-novel/ Huh, I'm not even the biggest fan of Sororitas, but that interview sold me on it. Gonna buy it to support Danie Ware.
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Jan 19, 2022 18:23
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Haha the new Hammer and Bolter is pretty amazing. gently caress all the internet haters who poo poo on this series because it loving rules.
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Jan 19, 2022 18:49
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No. 1 Juicy Boi posted:Huh, I'm not even the biggest fan of Sororitas, but that interview sold me on it. Gonna buy it to support Danie Ware. I've enjoyed the books of hers that I have read. She seems like one of the better BL authors
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Jan 19, 2022 18:51
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No. 1 Juicy Boi posted:Huh, I'm not even the biggest fan of Sororitas, but that interview sold me on it. Gonna buy it to support Danie Ware. Her short stories were great. Lots of new good authors in the past few years.
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Jan 19, 2022 18:53
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Metalshark posted:I'm quite lapsed these days with Warhammer novels and fluff but I still enjoy following this thread, so what are the messed up aspects of the Tau, may I ask? I've never paid much attention to them. The Tau are not nearly as horrible as the Imperium, but they still are an expansionist empire, and would be big villains in other sci fi settings. The primary things are the caste system, and that their leaders are a bit shady and are prone to keeping secrets from the rest. Still life under the Tau is way better then life under the Imperium.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:15
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If by shady leaders you mean it's heavily implied they use pheremonal mind control to maintain order then yes. This is one of two major reasons why the Far sight enclaves split off, and if I remember correct one of the read between the line reasons why battlesuit PTSD is a thing.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:30
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Ethereals are dickbags even if their dickbaggery is nothing compared to the Imperium. Farsight on the otherhand is one of the closest things to an unironic good guy in 40k.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:40
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Telsa Cola posted:If by shady leaders you mean it's heavily implied they use pheremonal mind control to maintain order then yes. Yeah, they're imperialists that force their will upon others, just not as immediately or as violently as the imperium does
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Jan 19, 2022 21:18
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AndyElusive posted:Haha the new Hammer and Bolter is pretty amazing. gently caress all the internet haters who poo poo on this series because it loving rules. I've enjoyed everything they've put out so far. This latest episode... Necrons. A Squat. Abaddon. Chaos Terminators. A Thunder Warrior. Dark Eldar. Yes, more please. Philthy fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jan 19, 2022 |
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Jan 19, 2022 21:53
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Ethereals are also some Eldar shenigans IIRC, unless that's been re-retconned.DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I am not defending the Imperium at all but your reading of Traitor General is grossly over-generous to Chaos. As bad as the Imperium is— and it’s as bad as any fascist state that’s ever existed on Earth—the forces of Chaos that took over Gereon are so, so much worse. The Imperium’s governance of Gereon (we can presume based on the text) was that of a fairly ruthless feudal lord; the people were serfs with no rights. Chaos’s governance of Gereon is that of a particularly sadistic farmer that prefers to torture his livestock to death. The Imperium’s cruelty is dull, dumb and blind; Chaos’s cruelty is active, knife-sharp and laser-focused. The Imperium is a giant, rusted machine that grinds people up in its gears at the slightest slip. Chaos, as depicted in the Gaunt’s Ghosts books, is the same machine with all the edges deliberately sharpened and whatever meager guardrails used to exist ripped away.
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Jan 19, 2022 22:58
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Daemon World is one of the novels that give you a fairly indepth view of a chaos held planet, and has some very dope sequences to boot.
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Jan 20, 2022 00:12
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Arquinsiel posted:Ethereals are also some Eldar shenigans IIRC, unless that's been re-retconned. My point is that they’re both systemically monstrous, but for one that monstrosity springs from indifference to human suffering while for the other it’s from an active preference for it.
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Jan 20, 2022 00:24
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Also the Blood Pact are explicitly called out several times for being unique amongst the typical chaos cults in that they emulate the Imperial Guard as much as possible, are highly organized, have recognizable goals, work with aliens, and aren't nearly as destructive as usual. They're basically written to be as appealing as possible (so people can play as Traitor Guardsman) though ultimately they're still pretty much "Might makes right, so give us what we want and maybe we won't kill you today". In most other examples of Chaos worlds, the people are either chained to their workbenches or hunted for sport.
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Jan 20, 2022 00:54
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:My point is that they’re both systemically monstrous, but for one that monstrosity springs from indifference to human suffering while for the other it’s from an active preference for it. The second wouldn't exist if not for the first
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Jan 20, 2022 01:48
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Improbable Lobster posted:The second wouldn't exist if not for the first I mean, no, the fall of eldar and that whole horror show happened without imperial input.
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Jan 20, 2022 01:55
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Kaal posted:Like most of the chaos legions, they're initially shown off in the Horus Heresy books as showing a lot of promise and benefit for humanity. They embrace good governance and seem to offer a return to the Age of Technology, now with the benefit of hindsight. Thousand Sons are often depicted as being unwillingly cast out of the Imperium, and having turned to extreme magic due to being attacked and driven to the edge of ruin by the Space Wolves and the Emperor. Left to their own devices, they probably would have happily built some knowledge-based techno-wizard library world. That being said, Magnus was reckless in his pursuit of knowledge at all costs, and the Sons have generally been intelligent without being wise. The flesh change started loving them up towards the end of the great crusade iirc
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Jan 20, 2022 02:18
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The closest thing you have to unironic good guys in 40k is that breakaway T'au faction that's led by a former Fire Caste and is the only non-imperialist faction in the setting. Naturally the T'au hate them more than anything and are on the verge of crushing them.
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Jan 20, 2022 02:30
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Improbable Lobster posted:The second wouldn't exist if not for the first Total absolution of moral responsibility because of civil war, you say?
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Jan 20, 2022 02:30
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The chaos society we have the best knowledge about is prefall eldar. It went poorly for them.
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Jan 20, 2022 02:37
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Zore posted:The closest thing you have to unironic good guys in 40k is that breakaway T'au faction that's led by a former Fire Caste and is the only non-imperialist faction in the setting. Naturally the T'au hate them more than anything and are on the verge of crushing them. Didn't the Farsight Enclaves roll in and save the mainline Tau from getting smashed by Death Guard during the latest splash of stories? I'm pretty sure the Farsight Enclaves are one of the more stable factions, even if "stable" means "annihilated the second someone remotely powerful looks at them".
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Jan 20, 2022 02:38
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wiegieman posted:The recent Gate of Bones has a good example - the chaos sorceress has a better life than she did as a starving religious pilgrim who got the poo poo kicked out of her every day, but she's still working her gang to death in order to dig up a relic and learning how to be a good enough cult leader that she won't be offhandedly killed by her dismissive astartes masters. She lucked out super hard honestly. She could have gotten someone like Marduk or one thats burning up with devotion and died instantly due to a slight mistake or on a whim
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Jan 20, 2022 02:59
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Telsa Cola posted:The chaos society we have the best knowledge about is prefall eldar. It went poorly for them. I'm very fond of the Blighted Duchies from Age of Sigmar, but they're fairly advantaged because, well, they worship Nurgle, so they really only have to worry about the fact that they all have the plague and are covered in poo poo and maggots instead of the whole constant backstabbing/everyone murdering each other/obsessiveness thing the other gods have. And they do horrible things to anyone allied with Order or Death. But they're good boys really.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:03
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The Tau are also starting to run into the problem of psykers and chaos corruption among their client races, with the Tau directly affected becoming pretty Imperium-like in their attitudes. Not sure how that's being explored currently, or if that weird Greater Good avatar the Gue'Vasa accidentally created is still a thing or got retconned. I do remember there being a short story where a Word Bearer talks about taking control of a human world that had been incorporated and then abandoned by the Tau. After a few generations the Tau pulled out because the planet's human population kept producing psykers and the Tau couldn't figure out how to deal with teenagers suddenly getting really spiky and making it rain blood.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:21
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t3isukone posted:I'm very fond of the Blighted Duchies from Age of Sigmar, but they're fairly advantaged because, well, they worship Nurgle, so they really only have to worry about the fact that they all have the plague and are covered in poo poo and maggots instead of the whole constant backstabbing/everyone murdering each other/obsessiveness thing the other gods have. And they do horrible things to anyone allied with Order or Death. But they're good boys really. One thing that I like about Nurgle is that he's the most extortionate God when it comes to getting converts (everybody else has something to offer, he just gives you the plague and then goes "Boy, would be nice if somebody could make you not be in horrible excruciating pain all the time, huh?") but seems to offer by far the best existence once you're on board. Plus, Nurglings.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:25
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t3isukone posted:Pre-fall Eldar didn't worship Chaos at all though? They got that level of crappiness on their own merits. I mean they totally did friend, though they probably didn't call things khorne or whatever. Right before they fell the vast majority of their population was either part of pleasure cults or murder cults which I mean come on.
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Jan 20, 2022 07:15
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Eye of Terror is a very cool old book that has a bunch of fun poo poo in it AND includes a semi functioning chaos society on the edge of the eye of terror Although it reads like a DnD novel and there's even a tavern scene where there is a quest
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Jan 20, 2022 07:20
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Telsa Cola posted:I mean they totally did friend, though they probably didn't call things khorne or whatever. Yeah, the people who call themselves 'Eldar' today are descendants of a small minority of religious puritans who cut themselves off from greater society because they (correctly) felt things were getting insane and immoral.
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Jan 20, 2022 07:33
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Zore posted:Yeah, the people who call themselves 'Eldar' today are descendants of a small minority of religious puritans who cut themselves off from greater society because they (correctly) felt things were getting insane and immoral. Where do the dino riding Eldar fit into this?
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Jan 20, 2022 07:35
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Zil posted:Where do the dino riding Eldar fit into this? You know those people who go off the grid and live in the woods to escape society? That's them.
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Jan 20, 2022 07:37
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So as an aside from a variety of space nazis I recently finished Covens of Blood by Jamie Crisalli, Anna Stephens and Liane Merciel. Its Daughters of Khaine 3 story anthology (connected by overarching plot). Book is decently written and authors do not have that big of a style difference that you can feel it and are brutal as expected I mean bite out your tongue and spit it at a demon  What I do have a problem with is kinda the same problem I have with 40k books. This is a horrible society and this are horrible people - if they have redeeming qualities and question the bullshit, they will get mulched. There is also a huge level of elvish cultural posturing. So, if you did enjoy dark elf/witch elfs in wfb you probably will enjoy this.
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Jan 20, 2022 08:03
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Grammarchist posted:The Tau are also starting to run into the problem of psykers and chaos corruption among their client races, with the Tau directly affected becoming pretty Imperium-like in their attitudes. Not sure how that's being explored currently, or if that weird Greater Good avatar the Gue'Vasa accidentally created is still a thing or got retconned. They are currently experimenting with Mind Science as they call it, as they view it as a potentially very useful thing. They even got good working Warp Drives at one point up until it turned out that turning too many of them on at once in relatively close proximity makes a huge portal show up.
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Jan 20, 2022 09:02
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t3isukone posted:I also think Lorgar's home planet worshipped the Chaos gods and it was kind of crappy, but not a nightmare hellhole. This is a very good point that hasn't been mentioned. We see several high-functioning chaos societies in the heresy books.
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Jan 20, 2022 09:03
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Covermeinsunshine posted:So as an aside from a variety of space nazis I recently finished Covens of Blood by Jamie Crisalli, Anna Stephens and Liane Merciel. Its Daughters of Khaine 3 story anthology (connected by overarching plot). Book is decently written and authors do not have that big of a style difference that you can feel it and are brutal as expected I mean bite out your tongue and spit it at a demon The Daughters of Khaine are probably the most evil Order affiliated faction. D-Pad posted:This is a very good point that hasn't been mentioned. We see several high-functioning chaos societies in the heresy books. The father south Norscans also were not too bad in Fantasy. It's only when you go really whole hog into Chaos worship that it gets real bad.
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Jan 20, 2022 09:03
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D-Pad posted:This is a very good point that hasn't been mentioned. We see several high-functioning chaos societies in the heresy books.
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Jan 20, 2022 09:07
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So what's the consensus on why the Eldar are buddying up to the imperium and rezzed Robote? It's seems pretty on the nose to me that they need to keep the stalemate in the long war going, otherwise they get exterminated by either side. They must have known about Abbadons plans, so they helped out with bringing back big G to stifle those efforts. At the same time it puts a potentially more eldari-friendly, less religiously zealous, leader at the head of the empire who's walking around in a life-support armor system of eldari design.  So when can we expect the backstab, or are they really going for a more traditional fellowship of the rings type story-line?
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Jan 20, 2022 09:24
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Kaal posted:Also the Blood Pact are explicitly called out several times for being unique amongst the typical chaos cults in that they emulate the Imperial Guard as much as possible, are highly organized, have recognizable goals, work with aliens, and aren't nearly as destructive as usual. They're basically written to be as appealing as possible (so people can play as Traitor Guardsman) though ultimately they're still pretty much "Might makes right, so give us what we want and maybe we won't kill you today". In most other examples of Chaos worlds, the people are either chained to their workbenches or hunted for sport. Telsa Cola posted:I mean they totally did friend, though they probably didn't call things khorne or whatever. Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 10:31
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