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Speculative fire, unless they changed the order type (which I've seen no mention of), gets way worse now that the defender can dodge without line of fire. The order efficiency becomes utter garbage.
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Oct 16, 2014 10:45
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It is a somewhat cheesy tactic (especially with FO) so, I'm not surprised its getting an outright nerf.
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Oct 16, 2014 10:56
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Cyclomatic posted:After watching the template video, it appears that template scatter might not be a thing in N3. Unless there is a big shakeup in the speculative fire rules, a model with grenades or a grenade launcher and orders to burn can pretty much takes out models with relative impunity. Move out and back in without provoking an ARO, then place a speculative template. Either they dodge it or they don't, but they can't shoot back. If you don't get them, then you don't have to worry about it getting caught in the wind and flying half way across the table and randomly killing your own guy. Spec fire couldn't kill your own mans, iirc. All templates in Infinity have IFF so if they'd ever hit a friendly, the attack is lost.
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Oct 16, 2014 14:13
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Looks like I was playing speculative fire incorrectly.
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Oct 16, 2014 14:56
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http://www.beastsofwar.com/infinity/infinity-3rd-edition-week-rules-close-combat/ new video just went up with the CC rules! yay
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Oct 16, 2014 15:11
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They've got the video up for ammo and weapon modes. Suppressive fire took it in the pants to a degree. EM ammo now puts models in their own combat group, including ariadna models, for frying their communication gear/
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Oct 16, 2014 15:15
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Laphroaig posted:http://www.beastsofwar.com/infinity/infinity-3rd-edition-week-rules-close-combat/ And an ammo video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-vWQmalcss
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Oct 16, 2014 15:15
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Cyclomatic posted:They've got the video up for ammo and weapon modes. Static burn on their hand signals. That's pretty dumb.
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Oct 16, 2014 16:17
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EM and plama both seem really scary. I like the double-mode idea for the weapons, as it cuts down on a lot of confusion; most of the rules disputes we had at my club were over MULTI weapns andwha tthey coud fire at what bursts. "See, it says burst 3/2/1! That means it can fire 3 normal shots, or 2 AP shots, or one DA shot!" The new stuff cutting BTS in half also seems a bit...excessive. Those values are not very high to begn with across the board, and th effect of failing the rolls are devastating. I -really- like the CC changes that we've seen. Basically, if you let certain spcialist models get close, you start getitng only bad choices. Shoot him? He'll roll toward you, using his CC skill to beat your FtF, and maybe make it into close combat. Mob him with cheap stuff to delay (you'd be amazed how long a simple Keisotsu always manages to cling to my myrms despite one being supposedly a badass carver of meat)? They'll go down fast to crits boosted by +CC MA options. Using the old rules the Paradiso scene in which Achilles beheads an Avatar felt like fan-wanking. With this chart and rules? My money is on Jerkilles all the way.
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Oct 16, 2014 17:57
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We had our first night of slow grow league last night, and it was really fun. I've been proxying for the last couple months while I decided what to buy. I really liked the exrah, I bought the entire range two weeks ago. Last night was a blast, but the discontinuing of the exrah and half my buy in to the game has dampened that a lot.
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Oct 16, 2014 17:59
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Sephyr posted:EM and plama both seem really scary. I like the double-mode idea for the weapons, as it cuts down on a lot of confusion; most of the rules disputes we had at my club were over MULTI weapns andwha tthey coud fire at what bursts. "See, it says burst 3/2/1! That means it can fire 3 normal shots, or 2 AP shots, or one DA shot!" Martial Arts level 5 is loving crazy  e: Hacker Devices video just went up a few hours ago also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUa3qjAwo0c S.J. fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 18:44
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I am trying not to get too worried about some of the changes, but seeing how some of these things will affect Ariadna I am a little worried about being exposed to a lot of new attacks, and having very little recourse against them. For some reason dudes wearing tesseum armour plates are now as vulnerable to hackers as dudes wearing power armoured suits? Ehhhh.... Again, I will judge it when it is fully released. I have confidence in CB to make a very nicely balanced game. As for the discontinued models, glad I bought the Metros and Zouave when I did. I don't like the Merovingian starter box, so buying it in the blisters is a lot nicer.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:53
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So can someone summarize the changes for someone who doesn't want to watch youtube videos of two guys talking a bunch? I just really prefer text to speech when digesting information. From what I get hackers are now useful against a bunch more armies, including Ariadna, BTS has been nerfed against some ammo, and close combat rocks face?
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Oct 16, 2014 20:03
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Hacking: - Theory of changes: Hackers are expensive, and need to be more powerful. Ariadna shouldn't be quite so immune to hacking. Bring the rule style more in line with Shooting and CC. - Hacking is still based on ZoC without LoF, ZoC extended by Repeaters. - Defensive Hacking Device, Hacking Device, HD+, and the new Assault Hacking Device. Potentially others added down the road. - Different devices will allow for different sets of programs to be used. - Many different Hacking programs available now, offensive, defensive, and support. - BTS is officially now an ARM-style stat against anything affected by it, including Hacking. Hacking programs have a Burst and Damage rating like a weapon, and a successful hack is contested by a BTS roll. - Immobilized has levels, Lvl1 has a duration, Lvl2 is permanent until repaird. - Infowar: Gotcha - Immobilized (level 1) for 2 turns. Targets TAG, HI, REM, or Hacker. - ITAG: Overlord - Possess TAG. - Infowar: Spotlight - "Targeted" for 1 turn, any target type. (same as new FO Mark) - Infowar: Blackout - Disable Communications equipment. (Example: Repeater, Fast Panda) - AHP: Brain Blast - Target Hacker, cause a Wound. - Infowar: Oblivion - Cause Isolated on a TAG, HI, REM, or Hacker - Supportware: Upgraded Reaction - Grants REM +1B in ARO for two turns. - (Combined Army) AHP: Sucker Punch - Target Hacker, cause a Wound. Same as regular AHP but different stats. - There will be various faction specific hacking programs. - Opposing Repeaters do not connect/interact. Repeaters only interact with other models. (prevents the chain of multiple repeaters bringing multiple hackers into a single ARO) Example case: Interventor behind the back of Jotum declares Overlord hacking program to Possess. Jotum declares Reset ARO to contest. WIP vs. WIP F2F. If Interventor wins the roll, Jotum makes a DMG 14 BTS roll to determine if the TAG is possessed. If Jotum saves against the BTS roll, he has survived an attack and may take a Guts Roll (moves 2 inches to get out of Hack range and turn around).
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Oct 16, 2014 20:28
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Hacking has more options. You can boost your on remotes a bit, mark target like a Forward Observed at a small penalty, disable enemy repeaters, fry the comm gear of a HI, TAG or remote to cut it out of its combat group order pool. At the same time, now it takes 2 rolls to make anything happen: one FtF roll against the target, then the victim failing their own BTS check against the power of your attack. Like a shooting attack, really. CC gets more scary, yes, with more option and apparently a much higher chance o cause criticals when you use someone who actually knows how to fight (CC skill of 20+ and Ma levels). However, remember that smoke, TO and ODD, which have been very reliable ways of getting into CC, have been nerfed, so it's also a higher risk to get a higher reward. Some kinds of ammo halve your BTS total when defending. How big a nerf it is depends on the availability of these items, and how much they cost in points/swc. MULTI weaponry and some others alternates between 2 fire modes, usually one with a full burst and the other with a single shot but stronger ammo. For instance, the MULTI-rifle has B3 when firing AP or Shock ammo, but Burst 1 when using DA, making it a reactive ammo. Misile launchers also get a new fire mode that has the exact same stats, but no blast template, for when you wan to shoot at someone close to your guys and not risk friendly fire invalidating your attack. So far, it seems that having an engineer became a LOT more important to restor your Isolated/immobilized guys, and hackers are also sweet. Guess the Doctor will drop to third place on the popularity scale!
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Oct 16, 2014 20:29
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I am hearing tell that the Exrah have been written out and won't be getting new stat lines. Anyone know anything?
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Oct 16, 2014 20:58
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Their models show up in the "no army profile going forward" section of the most recent discontinued SKUs post. Not a huge loss of actual cool stuff outside of the .Caskuda. The vector HMG is a game effect loss, but mine always failed to kill the target and was immediately crit back in the face whenever I used it, so I don't feel any personal attachment to it.
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Oct 16, 2014 21:20
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The new hacking rules look very exciting. Some of my absolute favourite Infinity miniatures are the Reverend Custodiers, but I was always a bit non-plussed about their hacking specialty. I greatly look forward to their role as cyber-wizards.
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Oct 16, 2014 22:42
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stabbington posted:Their models show up in the "no army profile going forward" section of the most recent discontinued SKUs post. Not a huge loss of actual cool stuff outside of the .Caskuda. The vector HMG is a game effect loss, but mine always failed to kill the target and was immediately crit back in the face whenever I used it, so I don't feel any personal attachment to it. Then clearly you were using it wrong; you've got smoke, there shouldn't BE any AROs.  Of course that wouldn't work even remotely as well with N3 smoke rules, so no real loss.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:42
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The EM stuff is scary news, especially on Muttuiah platforms.
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Oct 17, 2014 00:15
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The Dark Project posted:Ariadna shouldn't be quite so immune to hacking. To quote Carlos from the video: "You have to realize you don't have the pretty toys like hackers and remotes, and hackers and remotes have to be more effective [because they are pretty toys]". He said it was going from Ariadna laughing at other factions about hacking and remotes to having envy about hackers and remotes. (which also makes it sound like remotes may be getting a re-work too). It seems as though Ariadna is like the impetuous rule, where the thing that was theoretically a penalty wasn't a penalty, and now in N3 it is in fact a nut stomping penalty like it is supposed to be. I'm not so sure it is going to be 'less immune' so much as potentially skull hosed with impunity.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:31
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Cyclomatic posted:I'm not so sure it is going to be 'less immune' so much as potentially skull hosed with impunity. I have no complaints with Arianda getting the short end of either of these scenarios.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:47
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Between ubiquitous camo, heavy ordnance, flamethowers and guerilla shenanigans, I daresay Ariadna will be fine.
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Oct 17, 2014 03:12
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Ariadna have had their time in the sun for all of 2nd ed, I will be fine with whatever nerfs are received. Also, Yáoxiè Lù Duān are quickly replacing Ajax as 'Most Fun Thing To Use'. Until N3 where Ajax gets Assault, that is. 
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Oct 17, 2014 05:12
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Thing is, hackers and remotes were effective against Ariadna! Nothing like having a dude shoot remotes across the field, FO your dudes with impunity (needing no line of sight, but I would need to have it to dodge, I can't figure that out), then drop GML blast templates on them, which is more than likely to take out whomever is underneath them at the time. I will absolutely have to take a hacker every single game now to try and stop a lot of this stuff and more now it seems. Also, total reaction remotes are also exceedingly nasty against Ariadna as well. Nothing says "give up using trying to use this area to get around in" than a TR Zond with HMG. So I think it's a bit much to say that because hackers were such pretty models that they needed a boost against a faction which has no real hackable assets, especially when you consider the technology gap between the factions at play. I actually liked that idea, having Ariadna go deliberately low tech to make other stronger and more technically advanced factions to have come at them on more equal terms for Ariadna than just blitzing them with technology. We'll see how this goes in play. All I can hope is that Ariadna now gets a BTS stat that's good to reflect the low-tech nature of their gear when it comes to going up against enemy hackers and the like. The Dark Project fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 05:46
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The Dark Project posted:I wonder if Hackers are still going to be able to FO, or whether that's a FO job only. quote:Also, total reaction remotes are also exceedingly nasty against Ariadna as well. 
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Oct 17, 2014 05:49
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Yeah, reaction drones explode like popcorn when facing camo.
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Oct 17, 2014 06:19
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Yeah I noticed the FO thing ('Spotlight'), so removed that from my list. As for having Camo to take care of that, it's no longer a first strike ability with no ability to shoot back, but a FTF roll (albeit at negatives to hit), so there is definitely a greater chance of death for anyone sent to take care of the model. With the changes to MSV, I can see getting closer to these remotes to try and take them out will be something which is not an easy thing to do at all.
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Oct 17, 2014 06:33
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Finding out "Neko" Oyama will swing harder than Ajax is the most exciting thing I've learnt today. Now for the seriouspost:The Dark Project posted:Thing is, hackers and remotes were effective against Ariadna! Nothing like having a dude shoot remotes across the field, FO your dudes with impunity (needing no line of sight, but I would need to have it to dodge, I can't figure that out), then drop GML blast templates on them, which is more than likely to take out whomever is underneath them at the time. I will absolutely have to take a hacker every single game now to try and stop a lot of this stuff and more now it seems. GML Spam will be dodgable, and I think you're overestimating how frequently GMLs appear/how powerful they are. Yes, Nomads can do it decently. In a perfect world: A Hacker will need to get within 8" of one of your models, or get a marker within 8" of your model. They must then succeed at a Spotlight roll at -3 WIP, normally equaling a 55-60% success chance. They must then spend a new order on the GML to fire, which you may then attempt to dodge at -3, or straight PHYS if in LoS. On your line infantry, this will typically mean a 40% chance to dodge at -3, for things actually worth marking it'll be closer to 50%. This is a minimum of two orders, and requires you fail your dodge, and them to succeed on the hack, and have spent orders to be in a position to perform the mark. A WIP15 Hacker vs. a Line Kazak who has no LoS (Worst case scenario), from two orders, a 65% chance to succeed on the hack, and then 40% chance for the missile to be dodged entirely. For two orders, this is a 39% chance for the missile to even connect. This means that for roughly every four orders spent, one of your mans will die. This is the only thing we really know of so far that affects Ariadna from Hacking. Most the time it's better for the Hacker to just step around the corner and Combi Rifle you. All you have to do to halt this strategy is kill the GML (Frightfully easy with Antipodes). As others have stated, Combat Camo attacks are the best way of killing TR drones. As far as weaponry goes, we know Ojotniks are fairly legit now, and AP HMGs/Rifles T2 Snipers/Rifles remain amazing. tl;dr: It's fine, mang. Play dolls and kill dirty alien scum errday.
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Oct 17, 2014 06:52
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Corbeau posted:Then clearly you were using it wrong; you've got smoke, there shouldn't BE any AROs. They still get AROs when they make their armor rolls and guts check.  Also got owned by a stabbington fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 07:19
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Edit: Never mind me, the ravings of a lunatic :P I have $265 of Ariadna sectorial to work with, and I am looking forward to doing so 
The Dark Project fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 09:53
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Maybe it came up earlier but I was just directed to the thread that contains all the removed troop profiles for 3e. Sorry Yu-Jing Hmg Tiger soldier RIP Also completely removing all Exrah models forever that was surprising. Cascuda, vector and void operators all profiles...
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Oct 21, 2014 14:59
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Not just the yujing one. Most (but not all) AD HMGs are going away, supposedly to be replaced with spitfire options.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:42
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Anybody got all of the new weapon range charts compiled into one image? We're going to try playing what we know of 3rd tonight and I'm looking for a handy cheat sheet.
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Oct 21, 2014 22:01
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Fix posted:Anybody got all of the new weapon range charts compiled into one image? We're going to try playing what we know of 3rd tonight and I'm looking for a handy cheat sheet. What, this? 
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Oct 21, 2014 22:58
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Yeah, that! Thanks!
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Oct 22, 2014 00:18
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This looks interesting. Do I have to buy one of those starter packs or can I just pick a couple of models I like the look of? The site I was looking at didn't really say the starter packs had anything else other than the models... Haven't looked into it too much yet but I'm liking the Tohaa, Aleph and Combined Army.
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Oct 22, 2014 00:19
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I'd advise you to start with a starter pack. Some models only come in those, you might have problems getting starter uniques later on. (That said, don't buy the old CA starter, the new one's supposed to come out in November)
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Oct 22, 2014 01:15
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Pierzak posted:(That said, don't buy the old CA starter, the new one's supposed to come out in November) And what we've seen of the upcoming CA starter looks goddamned amazing.
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Oct 22, 2014 01:41
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Honestly, I feel we're at a point, sculpts-wise, that starter boxes can be a bit of a crapshot. Bakunin, Nomads, PanO, Aconcimento, all Yu Jing and CA all have some much worse sculpts in them - Unless you direly need the box-specific models, I'd probably steer clear.
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Oct 22, 2014 02:23
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