|
AlphaDog posted:Wizzard controlled feudalism (arcanism? beardocracy?), undead laborers, and blacksmiths not existing because a single wizard can do one man-year of blacksmithing in a 10 minutes are silly things, you guys. I know the mechanics of the game seem to imply that they'd exist, but that's only because you lack the imagination to understand that a believable fantasy world would be just like medieval europe but with elves and wizards. What im trying to say is Eberron is pretty good. hth
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 17:41 |
|
|
Effectronica posted:The final stage is the undead taking over because they don't need to breath, eat, sleep, or drink and they can exist for basically forever with enough embalming, and then you have Which has been mentioned here before in a different context. kingcom posted:What im trying to say is Eberron is pretty good. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:26
|
|
|
People always talk about wizards, but clerics are just as bad, and in this situation, clerical magic would be older and likely more entrenched, so wizards would probably be the first in a rebellion against theocracy, if they were even allowed off the ground in the first place. Clerics get all the spells. Wizards have to earn theirs (sorta).
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:27
|
|
|
jigokuman posted:People always talk about wizards, but clerics are just as bad, and in this situation, clerical magic would be older and likely more entrenched, so wizards would probably be the first in a rebellion against theocracy, if they were even allowed off the ground in the first place. Clerics get all the spells. Wizards have to earn theirs (sorta). ...but the only way to get better at being a cleric or a wizard is by killing a lot of your opponents, so it's likely that a perpetual state of war exists between them. Fighters die in their thousands on both sides, serving only to fuel the skeleton armies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:29
|
|
jigokuman posted:People always talk about wizards, but clerics are just as bad, and in this situation, clerical magic would be older and likely more entrenched, so wizards would probably be the first in a rebellion against theocracy, if they were even allowed off the ground in the first place. Clerics get all the spells. Wizards have to earn theirs (sorta). It's funny how we have four basic archetypes for mystical power that are all related to the justifications for aristocracy in real life- clerics get it from divine right, wizards through knowledge and wisdom, sorcerers through being born with the right heritage, and warlocks via cheating. Then you have druids, who are just kinda there. Maybe they get their power through being voted in by all the little woodland critters and trees.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:32
|
|
|
jigokuman posted:People always talk about wizards, but clerics are just as bad, and in this situation, clerical magic would be older and likely more entrenched, so wizards would probably be the first in a rebellion against theocracy, if they were even allowed off the ground in the first place. Clerics get all the spells. Wizards have to earn theirs (sorta). Thats why you have a division of church (clerics) and state (wizards) to make sure that theres an equal split between both sides of the caster supremacy in order to make sure both have enough martial meat shields and and equal distribution of bones.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:32
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:It's funny how we have four basic archetypes for mystical power that are all related to the justifications for aristocracy in real life- clerics get it from divine right, wizards through knowledge and wisdom, sorcerers through being born with the right heritage, and warlocks via cheating. Then you have druids, who are just kinda there. Maybe they get their power through being voted in by all the little woodland critters and trees. Maybe druids represent the warlords who establish rule by force and then turn it into something legitimate later on? Or maybe that's just stretching something past the breaking point.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:35
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:Wizzard controlled feudalism (arcanism? beardocracy?), undead laborers, and blacksmiths not existing because a single wizard can do one man-year of blacksmithing in a 10 minutes are silly things, you guys. I know the mechanics of the game seem to imply that they'd exist, but that's only because you lack the imagination to understand that a believable fantasy world would be just like medieval europe but with elves and wizards. In reality DnD is much closer to late antique or the wild west sans guns with elves and wizards. Thing in DnD notably absent from the middle ages: general stores, roadside inns, widespread availability of of liquid currency, the ability for non nobles to openly carry weapons, ect.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:36
|
|
|
Druids represent natural life, which exists and is often a force to overcome for those at the bottom, but is overshadowed by a society of sentient (magically or technologically adept) beings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:38
|
|
|
jigokuman posted:Druids represent natural life, which exists and is often a force to overcome for those at the bottom, but is overshadowed by a society of sentient (magically or technologically adept) beings. D&D: an allegory for the state of mankind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:39
|
|
|
jigokuman posted:Druids represent natural life, which exists and is often a force to overcome for those at the bottom, but is overshadowed by a society of sentient (magically or technologically adept) beings. They are actually just keeping everything alive, therby taking the tools of production (bones) away from the ruling class. This means the trickle down rewards of product are prevented from getting to the common folk. Druids are the middle eastern oil barons is what im getting at here.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:39
|
|
|
jigokuman posted:I love the idea of animated dead being honored family servants, or societies condemning criminals to eternal servitude in death. Or both. You could mark skulls or have the skeletons wear items that would indicate their status. It's a very "realistic" idea, has lots of flavor and feels like an alien world of fantasy. This is basically Warhammer 40K where if you're a good Imperial servant a dude with a bunch of tubes coming out of his face takes your skull and turns it into a little floating robot pet and if you gently caress up they turn you into a lobotomized zombie cyborg. The Emperor is the swaggest skeleton of all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:44
|
|
|
So has anyone tweeted about skelly hordes at Mearls and let him tell you it's up to the DM to fix their lovely rules yet?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:46
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:So has anyone tweeted about skelly hordes at Mearls and let him tell you it's up to the DM to fix their lovely rules yet? This is the best part of the game, dont let mearls take this away from me. Also its up to your DM to decide to tweet to mearls or not.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:47
|
|
|
kingcom posted:This is the best part of the game, dont let mearls take this away from me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:49
|
|
|
Traditional Games will now get a subforum for skeleton chat as a counterpart to the Damage on a Miss subforum. Balance in all things. Seriously, though, I think we just proved why D&D can't (and shouldn't) be used as an engine to simulate a D&D world, and also created the roots for a ton of fun adventures.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 03:49
|
|
|
kingcom posted:D&D world where every town has a necromancer patron who shows up and takes corpses in return for protection, wizard services and occasional advice and support seems like a much better setting than default dnd worlds. Necromancers are easily the most powerful men in the entire world, for they are privy to the ultimate truth - that all of us are just skeletons waiting to happen - and are able to control it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 04:14
|
|
|
What if a necromancer was controlling your skeleton right now and you never even knew it? You ever wonder why fighters agree to tag along with wizards whenever they go on adventures? It isn't voluntarily.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 04:21
|
|
|
Regarding all the pointless animals in the MM, that was one of the more popular anti-4e memes in ENWorld (there are no stats for MULES!, followed by unfunny "4e" names for mules), and 5e is basically ENWorld Edition.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 04:29
|
|
|
jigokuman posted:Druids represent professional wrestling, adjourned every full moon. WHO WILL WIN THE HIEROPHANTS BELT?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 04:34
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:What if a necromancer was controlling your skeleton right now and you never even knew it? You ever wonder why fighters agree to tag along with wizards whenever they go on adventures? It isn't voluntarily. Hang on making my recruitment thread. Mormon Star Wars posted:WHO WILL WIN THE HIEROPHANTS BELT? I shapechange into a Macho Man.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 04:39
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:What if a necromancer was controlling your skeleton right now and you never even knew it? I'm sorry, Martha - Fate needs me to follow that weirdo around. I can't say why, I know he's important to my destiny. It's just a feeling I got... A feeling in my bones.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 04:39
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Regarding all the pointless animals in the MM, that was one of the more popular anti-4e memes in ENWorld (there are no stats for MULES!, followed by unfunny "4e" names for mules), and 5e is basically ENWorld Edition. I, for one, literally cannot imagine any animal unless I know its Armour Class and Charisma stats. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Aug 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 04:42
|
|
|
"Hey GM, can my character have a pet turtle?" "ONLY IF THERE'S FORMAL PROOF OF ITS EXISTENCE!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:17
|
|
|
The funny thing about the Wizard vs Fighter debate is that it's not a natural problem for any system. A lot of systems try to balance characters on narrative power. A powerful Wizard in GURPS is going to have Fighter counterparts that resemble Batman or Conan, or at higher levels are going to be literal unkillable teleporting murder machines. FATE tends to work pretty similarly. 4E did a lot to help mitigate this but 5e seems to be moving back to the "Wizards are gods, fighters poke things with sticks" model which is disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:22
|
|
|
moths posted:I'm sorry, Martha - Fate needs me to follow that weirdo around. I can't say why, I know he's important to my destiny. It's just a feeling I got... A feeling in my bones. What if there was a little skeleton inside your skeleton? Like inside your braincase there's this little skeleton man controlling your every movement with a complex set of levers. Kai Tave posted:What if a necromancer was controlling your skeleton right now and you never even knew it? You ever wonder why fighters agree to tag along with wizards whenever they go on adventures? It isn't voluntarily. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU513suJZzY
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:25
|
|
|
NovemberMike posted:The funny thing about the Wizard vs Fighter debate is that it's not a natural problem for any system. A lot of systems try to balance characters on narrative power. A powerful Wizard in GURPS is going to have Fighter counterparts that resemble Batman or Conan, or at higher levels are going to be literal unkillable teleporting murder machines. FATE tends to work pretty similarly. 4E did a lot to help mitigate this but 5e seems to be moving back to the "Wizards are gods, fighters poke things with sticks" model which is disappointing. Actually it's more like Fighters Fight, Wizards do magic. Fighters however are really good at fighting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:26
|
|
|
Oh poo poo, over on enworld people are looking at the skeletal horde, after Jack's mathematical breakdown of the game-breaking implications, and saying, "eh, sounds about right."
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:28
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Actually it's more like Fighters Fight, Wizards do magic. Fighters however are really good at fighting. I think you'll find that Wizards also fight, they just do it by using magic. So Fighters Fight and Wizards Fight and Do Everything Else.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:28
|
|
|
NovemberMike posted:I think you'll find that Wizards also fight, they just do it by using magic. This is where someone mentions that Rogue and Fighter should be re-merged and the cycle is complete.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:30
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Actually it's more like Fighters Fight, Wizards do magic. Fighters however are really good at fighting. Nope, wizards are better at fighting. They get a spell that lets them see what it's like to be a fighter and "really good at fighting" (Tenser's Transformation, anyone?) so they can get a good laugh at how terrible fighters are at fighting by comparison. After writing that sentence, it just dawned on me - Wizards get a spell to temporarily become another goddamn class. Said class gets absolutely no reciprocal ability to do so.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:30
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Actually it's more like Fighters Fight, Wizards do magic. Fighters however are really good at fighting. Fighters are really good at fighting and Wizards are really good at magic. What's magic, exactly? "Eh, basically everything." Man, we're just pulling out all the classics from 2008, Next really is the callback edition.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:33
|
|
|
LuiCypher posted:Nope, wizards are better at fighting. They get a spell that lets them see what it's like to be a fighter and "really good at fighting" (Tenser's Transformation, anyone?) so they can get a good laugh at how terrible fighters are at fighting by comparison. Hell, for most wizards temporarily turning into a fighter is a downgrade. Why do that when you can just summon a fighter (read: bear, demon, elemental, whatever) to tank poo poo and hit things.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:36
|
|
|
NovemberMike posted:Hell, for most wizards temporarily turning into a fighter is a downgrade. Why do that when you can just summon a fighter (read: bear, demon, elemental, whatever) to tank poo poo and hit things. OR maybe....a skeleton?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:38
|
|
|
Also if some goons in the Game Room have taught us anything, its that a wizard with the right stats and race can do most of what a fighter does, in addition to being able to cast spells (just with a shittier spell DC.. maybe).
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:38
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:Also if some goons in the Game Room have taught us anything, its that a wizard with the right stats and race can do most of what a fighter does, in addition to being able to cast spells (just with a shittier spell DC.. maybe). I think the best part about this thread is that there a people who are actively playing it in good faith and when they make comments they tend to get ignored with either a nuh uh or wait for the modules/fixes. I guess thats why i gave up and decided to just shitpost since people only want comments from speculative fantasy land. EDIT: The Jack math effort posts are really good though. Don't stop. kingcom fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Aug 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:41
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Actually it's more like Fighters Fight, Wizards do magic. Fighters however are really good at fighting. Fighters are the only ones who just fight. Every other class fights and something. Clearly this means that the best choice if you just want to win combats is fighter, right? Oh, it's not? That's OK, I'm sure they'll fix it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:44
|
|
|
The best thing about the way D&D handles the division of capability among the martial/caster line is that in any other game if you show up with a guy whose sole, nigh-autistic focus is "swing sword at man" you would be laughed or eye-rolled at, maybe used as a cautionary tale about overspecialization, but in D&D it's considered perfectly acceptable by a large chunk of the fanbase to have a class whose sole purpose is to swing a sword all day alongside a class that has a library list of rule- and narrative-warping abilities to slot into his head each day. This is considered perfectly balanced and desirable and not at all insipid.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:46
|
|
|
LuiCypher posted:Nope, wizards are better at fighting. They get a spell that lets them see what it's like to be a fighter and "really good at fighting" (Tenser's Transformation, anyone?) so they can get a good laugh at how terrible fighters are at fighting by comparison. They are not. Also I don't recall Tenser's transformation being in the game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 17:41 |
|
|
Swinging a sword at thin air like you're a robot? Yeah, that's fighting. Tossing fireballs and summoning slightly oversized ocelots and shooting lightning from your fingers? Not fighting.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2014 05:58
|
|