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Lord_Hambrose posted:I like that the slow drip means continued support.  Also I’m pretty happy with how many releases we’ve gotten at about the 3.5 month mark if you include Genestealer Cults. I know it doesn’t match the old days but the fact SG are getting mold time at all makes me happy.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:02
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berzerkmonkey posted:Seriously. I would argue that NM's stride was hit upon the release of the box set and all the gangs (which I think released all at the same time?) None of this DLC slow-drip were getting now - it's killing the Specialist Games before they even get a chance get a foothold. Yeah, the two posters above are in line with how I feel. This quoted post goes a little far but I guess if that’s what you’re seeing in your community then fair enough. It feels too slow to me but I also understand the limitations and some of the risk which they are operating within.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:09
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If they follow genestealers with chaos cultists there will be a good stable of gangs to be had. The biggest problem with both old and new necromunda is building momentum in your area. GWs drip feed strat is frustrating but I’m really enjoying my orlocks and I’m pretty amped at how good all the new models are so it’s not all bad.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:09
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I think if they had just included the GSC and maybe Chaos Cult rules in Gang War 2 it would have been a lot better received.
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Mar 7, 2018 00:11
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If you wanted all the rules and just played escher or Goliath it'd cost you $195
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Mar 7, 2018 01:58
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Frankly I feel no guilt about :files: -ing the gang wars because it seems like there's so little value to them. Gang War 1 should have had the content of Gang Wars 1, 2, 3 in a single big book. Even if it was bundled with the additional tiles that would be a must buy for me. As it stands because of the high price point and low value they're not getting any of my disposable income on their books.
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Mar 7, 2018 02:08
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muggins posted:If you wanted all the rules and just played escher or Goliath it'd cost you $195 Sure, but there will almost certainly be a Blood Bowl Almanac style book at some point. At least the tiles are really nice and double as a cool Zone Mortalis set up.
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Mar 7, 2018 02:08
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Sure, but there will almost certainly be a Blood Bowl Almanac style book at some point. At least the tiles are really nice and double as a cool Zone Mortalis set up. I think we both know what the coolest Zone Mortalis setup is.
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Mar 7, 2018 02:11
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TTerrible posted:I think we both know what the coolest Zone Mortalis setup is. One day I will claim the Crystal Caverns for the Warmaster.
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Mar 7, 2018 02:15
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Apparently the bases that get packed into necromunda base blister are random. Though the GW rep who emailed me did agree that 7 of one type was a little excessive, so they're sending me a replacement one which is really nice of them. Dammit GW how can you simultaneously be so good and so terrible. Surely it takes more effort to supply a random blister of bases than to supply say 1 of each of the 6 types and 4 duplicates. Why would you make packaging that doesn't match contents? Anyway here's ash, ready to infiltrate hive society. 
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Mar 7, 2018 03:29
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Slow drip is really making it hard where I live, since everyone I played with want either Delaques or Van Saars.
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Mar 7, 2018 07:58
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For me I'm willing to roll with the "continued support" stance, although I find it really frustrating, as I'd like to see what Van Saars look like. On the plus side, I'll find out in a few months, so there's that. Locally, there's interest, as it's a pretty die-hard 40k area, so I can at least guarantee eventual battles and opponents as things carry on. I'm willing to bet that they're trying to time their release of the last of the core house gangs with the release of the upcoming Necromunda PC game (or visa versa perhaps) to capitalise on cross-platform interest (is it possible they learned from the mistake of AoS vs Warhammer: Total War?).
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Mar 7, 2018 10:31
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The continued support would be great, if uh, the content was worth it. GW2 is a complete rip-off, and padded by the inclusion of the rules for the new ZM tiles. I've not got the tiles themselves, do they not have these rules included with them? The alternate Blood Bowl pitches all have the special rules included. If they'd included the GSC/Chaos rules in there, it'd be slightly better but what was the point of including weapon profiles (which seem to contradict themselves) and no costs? All in all, it just feels very rushed with no quality control.
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Mar 7, 2018 12:31
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RAW, Toxin now seems to ignore armour. Our resident Goliath player is getting very vocal about this.
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Mar 7, 2018 13:24
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Toxin’s gone from being absolute garbage to ludicrously powerful. Even giving targets an armour save doesn’t dial it down that much. Although I think Armour Save vs. Toxin is actually allowed by RAW considering that Gas specifically states no Save is allowed, while Toxin makes no such statement.
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Mar 7, 2018 13:38
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Armor saves aren't that great in NM anyways!
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Mar 7, 2018 15:49
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The lack of an Enforcers gang makes me sad.
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Mar 8, 2018 01:50
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I like that the slow drip means continued support. Until they use the lack of takeup caused by the anaemic support as a reason to drop the product
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Mar 8, 2018 02:29
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RIP the old world
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Mar 8, 2018 02:42
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Played some Necromunda last night with the new toxin rules. Two Escher gangers, one after another, charge the same Delaque shotgunner and fail to kill him. TOXIN IS SO OP. JcDent posted:Armor saves aren't that great in NM anyways! Tell that to my Escher grenade launcher champion - 5 grenades into one Delaque leader, only one wound caused.
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Mar 8, 2018 12:31
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Man that Delaque Gang has some serious Plot Armour 
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Mar 8, 2018 13:08
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ineptmule posted:Toxin’s gone from being absolute garbage to ludicrously powerful. Even giving targets an armour save doesn’t dial it down that much. Saves are made in direct response to Wounds. Toxin can’t cause Wounds. Gas can cause any kind of injury including Flesh Wounds, so it’s not only distinguishable it’s also the kind of thing that, without the explicit “no saves line,” could enable a weirdly pedantic shitplayer to make a RAW argument that Gas allowed saves under certain circumstances. Finally, using the presence of clarifying text in one instance to infer intent when interpreting rules without clarifying text is RAI analysis, not RAW. It’s completely legitimate—that’s how RL appellate courts analyze statutes, and how eg PP Infernals used to issue rulings in WMH—but it’s still arguing RAI, not RAW.
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Mar 8, 2018 13:38
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Fair enough. Fortunately my group all agrees on the obvious solution.
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Mar 8, 2018 14:41
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Toxin can be kind of read both ways: Toxin "Instead of making a wound roll for a Toxin attack, roll 2D6. The target's controlling player rolls a D6 and adds the target's Toughness. If the target's roll is higher, they shrug off the toxin’s effects. If the rolls are equal, the target is Seriously Injured. If the 2D6 roll is higher, the target goes Out of Action." Resolving Hits: When a fighter is hit by an attack, regardless of how it was inflicted, follow this steps: 1. Make the Wound Roll 2. Opponent makes a Save Roll 3. Inflict Damage If toxin replaces the wound roll and tells you what the serious injury roll should be in advance, you still make an armor save as you follow the flowchart. If toxin skips to the inflict damage roll there is no armor save. RAW I'd say toxin doesn't ignore armor, but I don't think the argument that it does is wrong or invalid.
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Mar 8, 2018 14:41
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hooman posted:Toxin can be kind of read both ways: No? If Toxin rolls higher they go out of action. That is pretty clear.
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Mar 8, 2018 14:45
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Lord_Hambrose posted:No? If Toxin rolls higher they go out of action. That is pretty clear. Yes, but nothing in there says to skip the save roll or that it ignores armor. Toxin replaces the wound roll, it doesn't skip ahead to the resolve damage step.
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Mar 8, 2018 14:58
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They go out of action on the "roll to wound" step that is replaced by the toxin roll. The roll saves step never comes up.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:02
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moths posted:They go out of action on the "roll to wound" step that is replaced by the toxin roll. I understand your argument but it doesn't say to skip that step, which is in contrast to Gas which specifically notes skipping it.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:07
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It replaces the "Instead of making an injury roll, " text, but poorly. The way it's written, the character goes out of action as a result of the roll - it doesn't deal wounds to save.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:13
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moths posted:It replaces the "Instead of making an injury roll, " text, but poorly. It doesn't replace the injury roll though, it specifically replaces the wound roll and doesn't tell you to skip the save. As I said earlier RAW it's unclear whether or not armor applies. I think it does, but if you think it doesn't I'm not going to tell you you're wrong.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:22
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No injury roll is made because no wound is generated. No wound is made, so there's no opportunity to save. Toxin just takes a fighter out when you make the roll. It's counter-intuitive, but that's what it says. For now. It's probably not at all what was intended, but That's Our GW! A charitable read could bundle the whole toxin subsystem effect under the "instead of rolling to wound," clause. Ie: Treat the whole Toxin subsystem as the "wound" you replace from the initial sentence .
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Mar 8, 2018 15:36
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After 3 games in, I've grabbed enough cash for: grapnel, 2 x smoke grenades, grenade launcher, photo goggles.
I don't expect this tactic to last long but I'm gonna abuse the poo poo out of it until my campaign catches on.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:40
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moths posted:No injury roll is made because no wound is generated. No wound is made, so there's no opportunity to save. Toxin just takes a fighter out when you make the roll. That's how I read it, rules as written, that the entire toxin system falls under the "roll to wound" step in the rules and nothing says to ignore the rest. RAI I have no idea. Like so many other things it will just be chat with your group and figure it out until there's official word.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:52
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When talking about GW, RAI is always a cointoss, with "lands on edge" and "coin is eaten by a cat" being legitimate outcomes.
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Mar 8, 2018 20:54
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For most people, RAI is just code for "I wish it worked this way."
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Mar 8, 2018 21:17
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I've only played a few games of newcromunda, but I don't really see how anyone can read the rules quoted above and think you get an armor save from toxins, tbh
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Mar 8, 2018 22:59
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Not having read the rules: I assume an armour save is made in response to a success on a wound roll? If the wound roll never happens then it would never generate a success to cause it.
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Mar 8, 2018 23:16
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JcDent posted:When talking about GW, RAI is always a cointoss, with "lands on edge" and "coin is eaten by a cat" being legitimate outcomes. You actually roll D100 on a chart for the outcome of the coin toss. If you get 85+, you get to roll again on a sub chart of even more outlandish outcomes.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:43
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hooman posted:That's how I read it, rules as written, that the entire toxin system falls under the "roll to wound" step in the rules and nothing says to ignore the rest. It literally doesn't matter. Resolve the toxin text. You roll "Out of Action". Congratulations. Roll as many saves as you want, you're still "Out of Action". Saves aren't made against injury dice, they're made against wounds. There were no wounds inflicted. You could save every single wound inflicted (all zero of them) and your fighter would still be out.
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Mar 9, 2018 02:13
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Strobe posted:It literally doesn't matter. You're right, I missed this in the save section: 2. Opponent makes a Save Roll If the attacker causes a wound, and the target is equipped with any armour, the opponent makes a Save Roll.
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Mar 9, 2018 02:31
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