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Perry Mason Jar posted:
This is a false analogy, the security state does not save lives, covid measures have objectively worked and saved lives.
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Sep 28, 2021 16:50
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whether or not you have trust in this or any other particular vaccine at any point in time is beside the point that individuals who do or do not are not to blame for the consequences of the systemic crisis of the healthcare apparatus (which is designed to save lives only as an occasional but fortunate byproduct). blaming the individuals is a desired outcome though for those who designed and maintain this system.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:01
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“lol, loving covidiots deserve it” *dies from gum disease
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Sep 28, 2021 17:05
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hot date tonight! posted:This is a false analogy, the security state does not save lives, covid measures have objectively worked and saved lives. No we have more hospitalization and death for COVID in the previous month than at the same time last year when everyone was unvaccinated.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:10
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Wasn't there a lockdown and restrictions in place last year compared to now?
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Sep 28, 2021 17:13
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Nothing gets past you. US is not the only country in the world, still! I know it's incredible, you can see the same trend in high vaxxed + lockdown (and additional measures) countries.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:16
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The only way to avoid getting COVID at this point is living in or moving to China
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Sep 28, 2021 17:17
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Yes, as countries open up their restrictions more people got hospitalized and died, what are you getting at? Also I'm not american
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Sep 28, 2021 17:19
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You're mis-stating me. I did not say anything about opening up restrictions. Countries like Vietnam and other SE countries with high vaccination rates and continued aggressive lockdowns are seeing the same wave as countries with only vaxx in this period.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:23
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Yeah, the delta variant wasn't around last year Edit: is Vietnam having 2k people die a day from covid? I still don't see the point you're trying to make
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Sep 28, 2021 17:23
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Nothing gets past you. US is not the only country in the world, still! I know it's incredible, you can see the same trend in high vaxxed + lockdown (and additional measures) countries. America has a rate of 2000 deaths per million, Australia has a rate of 48 deaths per million due to covid.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:25
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Oh, yes a variant. Got it. So what you are advocating for, so we are clear, is mass compulsory vaccination and compulsory boosters, permanent lockdown, permanent masking and social distancing, permanent tracking and control of movement, permanent surveillance, and unilateral power to sequester anyone for health reasons? Because you know as well as I do that there is no mechanism by which to stop variants from occurring, so you are saying these are the things we should do, yes? To avoid a 1.6% aggregate CFR with a hugely pronounced and skewing mortality in the 80+ population (with comobordities)?
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Sep 28, 2021 17:29
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Oh, yes a variant. Got it. So what you are advocating for, so we are clear, is mass compulsory vaccination and compulsory boosters, permanent lockdown, permanent masking and social distancing, permanent tracking and control of movement, permanent surveillance, and unilateral power to sequester anyone for health reasons? Because you know as well as I do that there is no mechanism by which to stop variants from occurring, so you are saying these are the things we should do, yes? To avoid a 1.6% aggregate CFR with a hugely pronounced and skewing mortality in the 80+ population (with comobordities)? basically, yeah. you sound very intelligent. good questions you’re asking. i didn’t think anyone even talked about social credit score anymore, not even npr. lol
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Sep 28, 2021 17:31
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all that and I am also asking if there is some kind of cage system they can expand from the border to citizens they consider legitimate or the collars from battle royale
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Sep 28, 2021 17:32
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hot date tonight! posted:America has a rate of 2000 deaths per million, Australia has a rate of 48 deaths per million due to covid. They were able to impose totalitarianism without the need to justify it via mass death. Bully for them - they never had any incentive to actively murder their populations to justify it, you want me to clap?
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Sep 28, 2021 17:32
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please do clap, it’s sad enough it had to be asked once before.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:33
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Perry Mason Jar posted:They were able to impose totalitarianism without the need to justify it via mass death. Bully for them - they never had any incentive to actively murder their populations to justify it, you want me to clap? Totalitarianism? Get over yourself lol
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Sep 28, 2021 17:37
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Oh, yes a variant. Got it. So what you are advocating for, so we are clear, is mass compulsory vaccination and compulsory boosters, permanent lockdown, permanent masking and social distancing, permanent tracking and control of movement, permanent surveillance, and unilateral power to sequester anyone for health reasons? Because you know as well as I do that there is no mechanism by which to stop variants from occurring, so you are saying these are the things we should do, yes? To avoid a 1.6% aggregate CFR with a hugely pronounced and skewing mortality in the 80+ population (with comobordities)? you wouldn't need permanent masking and social distancing if you managed to drive cases to zero you wouldn't need constant boosters if you managed to drive cases to zero you wouldn't need tracking-of-movement if you managed to drive cases to zero "permanent surveillance" largely isn't a part of COVID response unilateral power to sequester anyone for health reasons is going to be necessary, yes variants stop occurring if you don't have the virus running rampant and uncontrolled across large segments of the population, so again, this requires that cases are driven to zero ... and all of that comes out to - you need to do the masking and the social distancing and the mass testing and the quarantining and the sequestration and the tracking-of-movement in order to drive cases to zero I suppose it's reasonable to be... not in favor of such practices if some of them are being implemented, but never in a way that's ever going to push cases to zero, also implying that there's a lack of intent on even doing that
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Sep 28, 2021 17:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:variants stop occurring if you don't have the virus running rampant and uncontrolled across large segments of the population  This would require that vaccinated people cannot be infected and cannot transmit. Which is not the case. Implicit in your statement is human population but we know that the virus has many animal vectors. Will you vaccinate the animals?
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Sep 28, 2021 17:40
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Covid vaccines lower transmission rates
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Sep 28, 2021 17:42
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is there no virus from history with animal vectors that we have combatted? does the existence of animal vectors mean there is no way to ameliorate anything?
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Sep 28, 2021 17:45
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Perry Mason Jar posted:
Humans can't control absolutely everything so we should just let everything run its course and hope for the best I guess
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Sep 28, 2021 17:45
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nut posted:is there no virus from history with animal vectors that we have combatted? does the existence of animal vectors mean there is no way to ameliorate anything? Not for a respiratory airborne virus, no.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:47
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Perry Mason Jar posted:This would require that vaccinated people cannot be infected and cannot transmit. Which is not the case. I didn't say that vaccines prevented infection and transmission. I've said before that you still need the masking, and you still need the social distancing, even for vaccinated people, precisely because of that reason, and that the only acceptable metric for lifting such practices should be based on case counts, not vaccination status.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:47
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Perry Mason Jar posted:
Yeah dude, we vaccinate animals all the time. Nearly 100% of livestock in global North countries are vaccinated against dozens of diseases, we also frequently catch and release wild animals and give them medical care including vaccinations.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:48
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Hot Karl Marx posted:Humans can't control absolutely everything so we should just let everything run its course and hope for the best I guess Seems way better than permanent fascist state killing and immiserating and dispossessing the working class eternally so that mostly seniors can add 1.6% to their life expectancy or whatever the gently caress. Yes!
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Sep 28, 2021 17:48
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pmj all this poo poo you’re on about existed before covid it’s just being noticed by downwardly mobile white people now
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Sep 28, 2021 17:50
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as a not-senior firmly entrenched in that 1.6% risk category, please feel free to ignore my opinions as the glorious future has no space for such biological weakness
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Sep 28, 2021 17:50
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Seems way better than permanent fascist state killing and immiserating and dispossessing the working class eternally so that mostly seniors can add 1.6% to their life expectancy or whatever the gently caress. Yes! You're right. You know everything.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:51
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https://nypost.com/2021/09/27/antifa-member-benjamin-varela-charged-with-shooting-protester/quote:Varela is a member of the forums at website Something Awful using the screen name “Doorknob Slobber.” He has a long history of making extremist posts and has been suspended repeatedly by the moderators. In a 2017 thread discussing Antifa’s organizational structure, Varela wrote, “I think it has something to do with … remaining decentralized in an effort to create cells instead of an organization structure that is easily targeted by law enforcement and other fascists.” I can't even make an "all right which one of you was this" joke because lol lmao
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Sep 28, 2021 17:52
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The Chad Jihad posted:Covid vaccines lower transmission rates gradenko_2000 posted:I didn't say that vaccines prevented infection and transmission. hot date tonight! posted:Yeah dude, we vaccinate animals all the time. Nearly 100% of livestock in global North countries are vaccinated against dozens of diseases, we also frequently catch and release wild animals and give them medical cafe including vaccinations. We are talking about mutations. Non-zero transmission means mutations occur. We do vaccinate animals and we have a hard time with respiratory viruses in animals precisely because it is extremely difficult to vaccinate against them, they are constantly having to churn out new anti-virals and breeding vaccine-resistant virus all the while. But we are not just concerned with livestock. And the vanishingly small proportion of animals we can capture and release does not at all represent the population of wildlife that are vectors for the virus.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:52
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Centrist Committee posted:pmj all this poo poo you’re on about existed before covid it’s just being noticed by downwardly mobile white people now Correct. But you're implying it's impossible for things to get worse for all members of the working class and I am not.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:55
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The actual life expectancy change from covid so far in the US: White people lost 0.68 years of lifespan, Black people lost 2.10 years of lifespan, Latino people lost 3.05 years of lifespan.
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Sep 28, 2021 17:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://nypost.com/2021/09/27/antifa-member-benjamin-varela-charged-with-shooting-protester/ domestic gladio has come for cspam at last
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Sep 28, 2021 17:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://nypost.com/2021/09/27/antifa-member-benjamin-varela-charged-with-shooting-protester/ lmao
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Sep 28, 2021 17:56
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Perry Mason Jar posted:We are talking about mutations. Non-zero transmission means mutations occur. I'm not a scientist but I'm pretty sure a virus can't mutate itself into a form that can penetrate an N95
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Sep 28, 2021 17:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm not a scientist but I'm pretty sure a virus can't mutate itself into a form that can penetrate an N95 good thing CDC still recommends you do not wear one. lol this is why freaking out at individuals for having wrong covid thoughts is so absurd. the complete expert system has failed us, huge loving shocker there isn't a unified opinion when the experts cant stop saying bullshit like "dont wear n95 masks"
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Sep 28, 2021 18:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm not a scientist but I'm pretty sure a virus can't mutate itself into a form that can penetrate an N95 So your answer to permanent masking is an emphatic yes. Okay. I wonder why you believe we can distribute and ensure the proper use of N95 masks for 7.9 billion people. I also wonder why you are unconcerned with the developmental effects - socially and linguistically - of masking in young children. Edit; can you make n95s clear or is it just gently caress every deaf person everywhere forever?
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Sep 28, 2021 18:00
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Zhulik posted:domestic gladio has come for cspam at last Aberration in the Heartland of the Internet The Jeffrey Method  Tank Aestheticsand of course, The Devil's Subforum
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Sep 28, 2021 18:00
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Perry Mason Jar posted:So your answer to permanent masking is an emphatic yes. Okay. I wonder why you believe we can distribute and ensure the proper use of N95 masks for 7.9 billion people. I also wonder why you are unconcerned with the developmental effects - socially and linguistically - of masking in young children. He isn't advocating that. You should try reading his posts before replying to them
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Sep 28, 2021 18:01
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