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That Old Tree posted:The Camarilla and Anarch books? Wrong kind of meaningful, however.
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Sep 25, 2019 04:31
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That Old Tree posted:The Camarilla and Anarch books? Lore-wise and rules-wise literally the only meaningful thing they did was cause such a loving scene overall management of the line was changed. That's it.
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Sep 25, 2019 04:41
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Yeah I guess the question is whether 5E maintained any forward momentum after that whole problem
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Sep 25, 2019 04:50
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Mulva posted:We're coming up on 2 years since 5th dropped and the only meaningful release they've had is....the Core. In your inescapably detailed research, you forgot the Anarch/Camarilla books, and the entire Chicago by Night book. Plus blood gods and the players guide are in production, this doesn’t seem extremely behind schedule or anything. Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 05:06
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Yeah Chicago just came out not that long ago and cult of the blood gods is going through editing and illustration I believe
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Sep 25, 2019 05:17
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Top Hats Monthly posted:In your inescapably detailed research, you forgot the Anarch/Camarilla books, and the entire Chicago by Night book. We already talked about this. Anarch and Cam exist, nobody can take that away from them. They are products that happened, things that are real. And if you can tell me anything of value or use you took for either of them, you would be the first person I know that read them to do so. Also I thought that Chicago had just released backer PDFs? Did that actually come out?
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Sep 25, 2019 05:47
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Yeah it's still just a pdf
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Sep 25, 2019 13:06
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Mulva posted:We already talked about this. Anarch and Cam exist, nobody can take that away from them. They are products that happened, things that are real. Don't those books have more clans in them?
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Sep 25, 2019 14:20
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Soonmot posted:Don't those books have more clans in them? yeah, there's rules for the Banu Haqim (f.k.a. the assamites) in Camarilla and rules for the Ministry (f.k.a. the setites) in Anarchs; there's also rules for the Lasombra in Chicago by Night, but since the Player's Guide with all 13 clans is coming out down the line, there's literally no reason to buy the mostly bad Anarch and Cam books
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Sep 25, 2019 14:23
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lol wtf, they're wasting page space double printing?
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Sep 25, 2019 14:24
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Soonmot posted:lol wtf, they're wasting page space double printing? Maybe they're taking a page from WOTC and the upcoming Vampire Plague League* will have a core+1 limitation. *I tried to type "Play League" but the typo was too funny to remove
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Sep 25, 2019 14:35
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I hate V5 therefore I think all of the V5 books are bad therefore they are useless QED is hardly a solid basis of argument. My V5 group is using all of the books. I haven’t read any Chicago stuff or the Cam book cause I didn’t need to for my character but the Anarch book was fine. I’m not a fan of what they did to Oblivion but it’s something different which is admirable I guess. The “value” we got out of them was the introduction of new clans, new lore sheets, new rules etc, which sounds stupidly obvious when I have to say it out loud. I used the rules in the rule books to play a character in a game, value achieved.
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Sep 25, 2019 14:53
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Mulva posted:We already talked about this. Anarch and Cam exist, nobody can take that away from them. They are products that happened, things that are real. CNN hasn't officially released yet no. I know it takes time to write and edit a book but it seems like the old WW had these things cranking out much faster than they are now. Hell I feel like D&D 5th had more books out by now after it released. From what I've read of V5 it's interesting, although I've rolled my eyes a number of times while reading (the bit about 9/11 was bad and Brujah can be Nazis was really dumb) but generally it seems pretty good. Certainly the mechanics seem a lot easier to explain and understand than the old mechanics.
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Sep 25, 2019 15:50
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GNU Order posted:The “value” we got out of them was the introduction of new clans, new lore sheets, new rules etc, which sounds stupidly obvious when I have to say it out loud. I used the rules in the rule books to play a character in a game, value achieved. That could be reasonable value, but from what I understand they're releasing one clan per book? For a system that had what, 13 to start, and then a bunch of bloodlines? It seems piecemeal in the sort of 3.5ed D&D supplements piecemeal. Compared to other supplements in the same genre and wheelhouse, they're pretty light. Coupled with all the other content and political issues, it's not that hard to understand why people don't count them as useful content. They are pretty much doomed to exist in the same space as Montreal by Night, BvD, and Beast. It is not where a whole lot of people would want to get their material for their game from, with reasonable cause. If you really like the system, that's great. There's probably room for you to have a good game within that system. But whitewashing the issues isn't going to win arguments, and accepting those issues will do a lot more to further the discourse.
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Sep 25, 2019 15:53
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joylessdivision posted:CNN hasn't officially released yet no. I know it takes time to write and edit a book but it seems like the old WW had these things cranking out much faster than they are now. Old WW had full-time employees; OPP is dependent on freelancers who make way, way less than a living wage.
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Sep 25, 2019 16:07
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Jhet posted:That could be reasonable value, but from what I understand they're releasing one clan per book? For a system that had what, 13 to start, and then a bunch of bloodlines? It seems piecemeal in the sort of 3.5ed D&D supplements piecemeal. Compared to other supplements in the same genre and wheelhouse, they're pretty light. "PROVE TO ME THAT THE BOOK IS USEFUL" "Here is why the book is useful to me" "NO, NOT LIKE THAT" Not going after you personally, it just seems strange to for someone to say "prove that this book is worth it" and when said so, we get into a discussion of whitewashing or what have you. Yes I'm aware there are different people posting. The guy posting explained plainly that the book is what you make of it. Never mentioned political issues or content issues. Just the book itself and its contributions. Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 16:35
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Jhet posted:That could be reasonable value, but from what I understand they're releasing one clan per book? For a system that had what, 13 to start, and then a bunch of bloodlines? It seems piecemeal in the sort of 3.5ed D&D supplements piecemeal. Compared to other supplements in the same genre and wheelhouse, they're pretty light. Couldn't agree more.
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Sep 25, 2019 16:56
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Rand Brittain posted:Old WW had full-time employees; OPP is dependent on freelancers who make way, way less than a living wage. Right I forgot OPP is writing the English language books now. Was there another group doing English V5 books besides OPP? I know I read that "WW isn't writing any more books lol, here's all the other people writing books for us" email ages ago and it had so many different companies listed for the various regions I'm probably mixing something up. Although I know Modipheous is publishing stuff? The V5 publishing side of things is super confusing.
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Sep 25, 2019 17:10
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Jhet posted:If you really like the system, that's great. There's probably room for you to have a good game within that system. But whitewashing the issues isn't going to win arguments, and accepting those issues will do a lot more to further the discourse. Obviously the Nazi edgelord poo poo is unacceptable, obviously (which I will gladly mention any time I praise V5), and the dripfeed of content coupled with a Kickstarter release/prerelease model reeks of a project which is for sure limited in budget. I’m not intimately familiar with the budget and finances of OPP but that just feels like the way this poo poo all headed. Relegating V5 to the dumpster before the players guide is even out is kinda betraying any objective opinion tho. I happen to find it streamlined and different without betraying the feel of old jampire books, and most importantly fun (more fun than V20, which is just my opinion, of course). Also I’m not trying to “win“ any arguments. Is this an argument?
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Sep 25, 2019 17:10
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Okay oberst
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Sep 25, 2019 17:15
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joylessdivision posted:Right I forgot OPP is writing the English language books now. Was there another group doing English V5 books besides OPP? I know I read that "WW isn't writing any more books lol, here's all the other people writing books for us" email ages ago and it had so many different companies listed for the various regions I'm probably mixing something up. Basically anybody can get the license to publish a book by asking, OPP and Modiphius are companies who do. It's not exclusive as far as I know. Have Modiphius announced any books that they have planned? I know OPP have several somewhere in the process of happening.
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Sep 25, 2019 17:24
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Top Hats Monthly posted:"PROVE TO ME THAT THE BOOK IS USEFUL" I don't really like V5 from what I know about it (which, to be fair, does not include "having read the rules) and am perfectly happy to stan Requiem till I die but yeah, you answered his point clearly.
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Sep 25, 2019 17:37
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GNU Order posted:Relegating V5 to the dumpster before the players guide is even out is kinda betraying any objective opinion tho.
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Sep 25, 2019 17:45
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The game systems are pretty fun in V5 and the problematic politics are easily ignored, avoided, or written over. I’m struggling to find the issue here.
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Sep 25, 2019 17:55
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Naoto Shirogane posted:The game systems are pretty fun in V5 and the problematic politics are easily ignored, avoided, or written over. I’m struggling to find the issue here. V5 poisoned itself by nakedly trying to appeal to a really lovely demographic. Even if I personally forgive and absolve V5 of all its upfront nazi-pandering edginess, it's not a hill I want to get caught dead on ... or a scene I want loving anything to do with. They set out from day zero to attract garbage people with lovely beliefs. They deliberately used nazi dogwhistles and rapist Zak S to invite them in. Like, OK - Maybe Michael Vick isn't torturing dogs anymore but I'm not going to wear his jersey around no matter how good he is at football.
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Sep 25, 2019 18:29
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Ah you're one of those people
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Sep 25, 2019 18:31
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Rand Brittain posted:Old WW had full-time employees; OPP is dependent on freelancers who make way, way less than a living wage. More generally, RPGs seem to be moving away from the vast supplement bloat of the past. Swedrac and his edgelord pals had a hard on to get it restarted, despite WW formers pointing out how the supplement treadmill by the end wasn't working for profitability. I'm guessing Modiphius is savvy enough to not try to poo poo out 5 vamp books a month in 2019.
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Sep 25, 2019 18:31
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Metapod posted:Ah you're one of those people Easy now, buddy. It’s a perfectly fair argument. The problem is when people in this thread try to argue that the game is mechanically mad because they allowed nazis to put Nazi poo poo in their books. That just doesn’t make sense.
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Sep 25, 2019 18:36
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Desiden posted:More generally, RPGs seem to be moving away from the vast supplement bloat of the past. Swedrac and his edgelord pals had a hard on to get it restarted, despite WW formers pointing out how the supplement treadmill by the end wasn't working for profitability. I'm guessing Modiphius is savvy enough to not try to poo poo out 5 vamp books a month in 2019. I mean, I'm not sure these companies are capable of doing the supplement treadmill. By all accounts Onyx Path is producing as many supplements as it can. RPGs are just too complicated for people working for beer money in their spare time to turn out five books a year. They probably don't want to produce like they did in the 90s, but it would be nice if there were around one book a year in each line. Rand Brittain fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 18:37
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Other than the rapist and nazis, yeah it's probably OK. But there are other OK games that didn't try to appeal to humankind's worst, and some of them were already Vampire: the Masquerade.
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Sep 25, 2019 18:42
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GNU Order posted:Easy now, buddy. It’s a perfectly fair argument. Oh that was about the Vick comment
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Sep 25, 2019 18:59
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The Michael Vick comparison is...interesting. To say the least.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:08
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My issue is. V5 exists because one edgy guy wanted to return the game to the way he remembered it, with leather chains and Nazis and transgressions. And he didn't think that opp was doing a good enough job with the 20th anniversary games. The community railed against him at every turn. The game is still working off of his foundation. It still only exists because of his desire to be the edgiest edgelord that ever edged. I'm not sure if that's something the game can ever shake off. It's in it's DNA. He wrote the lore Bible and they're still, ostensibly, using it.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:11
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Naoto Shirogane posted:The Michael Vick comparison is...interesting. To say the least. I guess a MAGA hat would be a better analogy. Like, it keeps the sun out of your eyes and maybe you really like red but why are you picking the one with baggage over literally any alternative that isn't lousy with poo poo-bag cooties? And why would i want to sit down at a table with five guys in MAGA hats who all swear it's just because uh, red hats are neat.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:19
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As long as the group is mature and the ST is okay with it who cares if you roleplay a Ministry/Settite skinhead tattoo artist or whatever. It's just RP.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:21
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moths posted:I guess a MAGA hat would be a better analogy. Nah man you don't get to make the switch from a man who did his time truly rehabilitated and became a positive in the community to the maga hat get the gently caress out here
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Sep 25, 2019 19:27
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Not to derail but the man could throw a ball pretty drat well. https://media.giphy.com/media/ZQFh2Y2054Ij6/giphy.gif Flick of the wrist and it goes 60 yards
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Sep 25, 2019 19:33
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Blitz7x posted:As long as the group is mature and the ST is okay with it who cares if you roleplay a Ministry/Settite skinhead tattoo artist or whatever. It's just RP.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:35
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Metapod posted:Nah man you don't get to make the switch from a man who did his time truly rehabilitated and became a positive in the community to the maga hat get the gently caress out here Oh sorry i didn't know the dogs got better.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:50
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moths posted:Oh sorry i didn't know the dogs got better. I know you don't actually care and just want to talk badly about a black man who went to jail but they actually did https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/12/23/vick-dogs
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Sep 25, 2019 20:06
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