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Any word on if they're considering a hard cover edition? I've already backed the softcover but would be happy to upgrade.
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Feb 4, 2016 15:43
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:Also, the previews can be found at http://apocalypse-world.com/AW2ndEdPlaybooksPreview.pdf thanks for this link, gonna do some stream of thoughts stuff: -brainer warning seems squicky -quarantine warning is hilarious -ooh, new basic move? -more emphasis on battle moves, perhaps? not sure I like this -the new driver looks much more interesting, and "if you would like to start the game with a prosthetic"  -just noticed the new harm clock with "when life is untenable" - this seems good -I like the gunlugger's new hx option, "and/or smartest" instead of just prettiest. -huh i guess a lot of characters can start with a vehicle or prosthetic, interesting -characterization of hocus' mob gives more life the the playbook -not sure i like the quarantine's Past section. all about detailing The Apocalypse, instead of the World. -savvyheads can officially get gangs now! I don't think they used to -also the savvyhead is super rich, 6-barter to start with dang -not sure the basic problem with the skinner was solved, but most getting gigs helps -oh the new move clears up some of the GA/SBF issues, looks like SBF was eliminated in favor of a more robust battle system. -I like that all of the basic moves have the same advice on a 1 (prepare for the worst) -I also like you still get to ask a question on 6- if you're reading Final thought: this is definitely AW2e, not a complete re-write.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:15
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:Starting a new game tomorrow, and I'm thinking I might play a Touchstone, but I'm not sure what I'd make them believe in or what kind of person they might be. Share your Touchstone ideas with me! I played a Touchstone once named The General whose whole thing was bringing back strict military codes and reshaping the world through discipline, order, and brotherhood. It hit me during a session that I had made apocalypse Big Boss, which was not something I had a problem with. Along those lines, I really hope we get 2E Touchstone. Specifically because I've yet to encounter one, myself included, who didn't immediately jump on Indomitable. It was just a little too good of a move, in my opinion. It also can stomp on the Battlebabe or Gunlugger's spotlight unless the MC works a bit harder than they'd normally have to.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:35
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I did post-Apocalyptic Capt. America and he worked out all right. I've also seen a Touchstone who was basically the Postman, but for the electrical system. Can you talk to the other players? The problem I've seen with Touchstones is that everyone else figures out what your deal is and lets you wander off to do your own thing. You want something that will get in people's faces. Some random ideas: Boxer/Shaolin Monk/Otaku fanboy - Guns are for pussies. Only in glorious hand-to-hand combat can people truly prove their worth. Lay down your arms! Jonny Appleseed / Grow the earth. - Ohh, except seeds need water and fertile soil. Better go get some. I'm sure the hardholder won't mind you helping yourself. Ward Cleaver - Sure, your hair is slicked back with motor oil and your pipe hasn't seen tobacco for as long as you've had it. But just because the world ended doesn't mean everyone has to be pottymouths. That Cannibal cult probably just needs a stern talking to.
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Feb 5, 2016 00:18
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So my battlebabe has, apparently, set herself up as basically a leader of a farming village. Normally this would be cool, and fine, but I feel kinda like I'm invading on the Hardholder's territory with that. I dunno how to really fix it, however?
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Feb 5, 2016 00:48
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KittyEmpress posted:So my battlebabe has, apparently, set herself up as basically a leader of a farming village. Normally this would be cool, and fine, but I feel kinda like I'm invading on the Hardholder's territory with that. I dunno how to really fix it, however? Either go wandering like a cowboy or change playbooks are the two methods I see. Far from the only ones.
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Feb 5, 2016 00:54
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Solid third option: Show off why battlebabes aren't the best town leaders. Great town protectors, not great town leaders. Maybe make your next goal to find a replacement, after several things go wrong under your decision making.
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Feb 5, 2016 00:59
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The 2e playbook preview got updated with the battle moves.
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Feb 6, 2016 20:32
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KittyEmpress posted:So my battlebabe has, apparently, set herself up as basically a leader of a farming village. Normally this would be cool, and fine, but I feel kinda like I'm invading on the Hardholder's territory with that. I dunno how to really fix it, however? The Hardholder is going to be very imterested in your actions, so it might be wise to wait and see.
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Feb 6, 2016 21:08
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Plus if its the game I think it is, you can always set it up as an additional option for growth in the future. Or set up a puppet governor to manage things whilst you provide the muscle.
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Feb 6, 2016 21:10
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Lemon Curdistan posted:The 2e playbook preview got updated with the battle moves. It might be a problem with my cache, but I can't find it on the pdf. Anyone else have this problem?
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Feb 6, 2016 21:31
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Covok posted:It might be a problem with my cache, but I can't find it on the pdf. Anyone else have this problem? It's the last three pages.
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Feb 6, 2016 21:33
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Lemon Curdistan posted:It's the last three pages. My last page is just the basic moves. I think my cache is causing the problem, but I already cleared it. My pdf is only 29 pages, btw.
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Feb 6, 2016 21:52
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Covok posted:My last page is just the basic moves. I think my cache is causing the problem, but I already cleared it. My pdf is only 29 pages, btw. The new one is 33
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Feb 6, 2016 21:53
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re-looking over basic moves and examining the new battle moves: -end of session Hx got a case covered: what happens if nobody knows you better? That scenario has come up pretty frequently for me, so I'm glad to see it's getting addressed in a way that makes sense. -seduce/manipulate against PCs has carrot or stick now, with a unique mechanic - temporary highlight elimination. Interesting, though I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone use that move in my games in the first place. -I still think the default harm roll system is wonky. -daamn there's a lot of battle moves -the blind choice to continue to fight on or not is very good, though most NPCs are just going to get annihilated in single combat. This is probably good, though. Single Combat clearly replaces Seize By Force, and I think it's a good choice. Still allows Hard characters to bull their way around. -Chaotic Free For All looks awesome but is poorly worded, I had to read it a few times to figure out what the harm was about. -whoops! Seize by Force is back. -I think all of the Assault and Hold moves have the issue of +1/-1 harm choices. If you're attacking a person, then you deal harm. If you're attacking a location or a thing, harm is incidental. I think these moves need more context. -Stand Overwatch seems unfinished. -Tactical and support moves as a whole seem...out of place? Error404, Gorbash, and I were discussing a PBTA combat system that basically entailed Attack/Control/Defend as the three moves. Maybe I'm biased but I think these moves as written are far too crunchy for AW. Single Combat and Chaotic Free For All are good, though. -On the other hand, subterfuge moves look really good. I think they are also slightly unfinished, but their triggers are golden. They don't need to be used as a coherent system necessarily either, just pulled out of the MCs pocket when the fiction demands it! -OH GOD YES ROAD WAR -the moves aren't perfect, but I could see a small second pass. -conclusions: the new single/mass combat options are good. The tactical combat actions are bad. The Subterfuge actions are fantastic. ROAD WAR is shaping up to be great.
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Feb 7, 2016 19:23
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Captain Foo posted:re-looking over basic moves and examining the new battle moves: You should definitely post these on the KS.
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Feb 7, 2016 19:43
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Error 404 posted:The new one is 33 It looks like it was cache issue or something because the link is working just fine now. As for the tactical battle moves, I agree with Quantum Ninja that they worked better when battle had a Battle Clock? Also, how many people here used the battle rules in 1e in their games? I got the vibe they were overlooked by many -- even hacks that could have used them -- and I'm wondering how those who overlooked them/didn't even know they existed feel about the battle elements being put into the forefront and core of the game?
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Feb 7, 2016 19:57
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Covok posted:It looks like it was cache issue or something because the link is working just fine now. I'm conflicted about them. On the one hand the GA/SBF combo wasn't cutting it, but I'm with Foo that this is an over correction. Like, the ideas aren't bad, and in a game that is explicitly designed to have 'tactical thinking as anchor for fiction' the moves are ~mostly~ ok. But that stuff is vestigial to what AW is/should be about imo.
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Feb 7, 2016 20:38
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Captain Foo posted:-seduce/manipulate against PCs has carrot or stick now, with a unique mechanic - temporary highlight elimination. Interesting, though I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone use that move in my games in the first place. Also: Honestly, I never really saw a problem with the GA/SBF divide. It seemed pretty intuitive to me. But whatever, if the new moves make it more explicit/clear, I guess that's OK.
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Feb 7, 2016 21:46
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My game experience is exclusively pbp, and I think the level of player familiarity you'd want to have to do seductions just doesn't really exist on the forums. e- I didn't really have a problem with ga/sbf either, but it was a clear trouble point for a lot of people. The clarity just wasn't there off the bat.
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Feb 7, 2016 22:08
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Lemon Curdistan posted:You should definitely post these on the KS. I will do this after I actually pledge it!
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Feb 7, 2016 22:14
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World Wide Wrestling: International Incident kickstarter is live. $20 for print. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ndpaoletta/world-wide-wrestling-rpg-international-incident
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Feb 7, 2016 22:22
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Evil Mastermind posted:World Wide Wrestling: International Incident kickstarter is live. $20 for print. I'm doing a playbook and supplement for this and if you liked WWWRPG, you'll love this.
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Feb 7, 2016 23:06
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I wonder why he kept "an arresting Skinner" move. It always seemed a bit powerful and abusable.Error 404 posted:I'm conflicted about them. On the one hand the GA/SBF combo wasn't cutting it, but I'm with Foo that this is an over correction. I feel that in this version they need a much clear definition of Go Aggro and how it differentiates from a battle (especially Single combat). I also wonder if this is one of those "creator and audience have differing visions" thing. Like, battles were meant to be a big deal in AW 1e, but the rules were hidden away and often overlooked. Maybe Vincent has a different view on how combat should be in PbtA from the get-go and this is just a reassertion. Which he may not even see as weird as he, personally, may not be aware of people differing on this idea or feel that, as it is his product, there is no problem going with his own vision for things. Evil Mastermind posted:World Wide Wrestling: International Incident kickstarter is live. $20 for print. Sweet dude. Thanks for the heads up. Golden Bee posted:I'm doing a playbook and supplement for this and if you liked WWWRPG, you'll love this. That's awesome!
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Feb 7, 2016 23:39
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Covok posted:I wonder why he kept "an arresting Skinner" move. It always seemed a bit powerful and abusable. I may include some of these thoughts when I post my ks comments since it's a more fully described explanation of where my critiques are coming from, if that's OK
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Feb 8, 2016 05:02
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Captain Foo posted:I may include some of these thoughts when I post my ks comments since it's a more fully described explanation of where my critiques are coming from, if that's OK Yeah, sure, you can use those quotes, if you want to. I just, personally, posted a little comment that I feel "An Arresting Skinner" is a bit too powerful as well as mentioning that I feel the Quarantine's "the apocalypse happened 50 years ago and Specialist Jacskon, Tammy" should be made more vague. So, I got no problem giving critiques on the title to the creator. Better to do that now then not like the finished product.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:13
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I think it's okay to have the crunchier rules if they're only for when it feels important to get nitty-gritty about combat etc. Like if you're just having a quick shootout, there's no need to break out all these tactical maneuvers and hold and spend and yada yada, you just roll Go Aggro (or I guess Single Combat or whatever it's called now) and that's it. But if the group really wants to zoom in and talk about Alice laying down covering fire while Dogface sneaks round and knifes their spotter, then you've got moves to do that. Now, if there were similar optional, fine-grained moves for poo poo like swaying a crowd (When you shout passionately about something they care about, roll +hot) or having a heated argument (When you turn someone's own words against them, roll +sharp), now that'd own. You use basic moves like manipulate most of the time, but if you want you can break out the magnifying lens and have a big-old point by point debate about What to Do with All These loving Warheads.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:29
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I'm in agreement that this feels like an overcorrection - for me, one of the big draws of AW is the elegant simplicity, and feel like it's getting lost a bit in this. We've gone from, what, 9 moves to... 23? Not including peripherals (for either). That's a big jump. I can see what some of this stuff is doing here (and road war in particular looks hella good), but I'm not convinced I need that much fine grain for my AW combat. One of the things I like about 1st Edition is that combat is just one of the things you can do with no particular focus - it effectively gets the same weight as perception, or social interaction. With these battle moves that section of the game has exploded, and I'm not seeing more nuance in the other parts of the package. I can see myself creating a hacked together version of the moves for my own use - merge sucker someone into go aggro (cause one's just a special case / extension of the other, and I'm not sure I need a whole new basic move to describe that), and then replaced in battle with single combat and a chaotic free-for-all. That should cover 99% of circumstances, and we can break out the rest of the battle moves later on if people feel comfortable with them. I really don't get sucker someone as a separate move.
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Feb 8, 2016 10:55
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Sucker Someone exists because a lot of newer players are confused as to what you do when you're in a position to do harm but the other party isn't. It exists purely to clarify the situation by codifying "do your harm, unless there's a significant chance of you not managing to do so" by codifying it in the same structure as basic moves.
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Feb 8, 2016 11:01
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Edit: I'm a loving idiot It needs to be worded more clearly - at the moment it's easy to read the other way round (which I was doing). It'd be much better as "the victim has no choice but to suffer harm" or "victim does not have the choice to cave and do what you want". As it stands it's weird and grammatically incorrect, and potentially ambiguous... and I' ms till not convinced it needs to be a basic move all of it's own. Lupercalcalcal fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 11:31
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Nifara posted:I really don't get sucker someone as a separate move. Most everyone have used go aggro for that since forever, but the common complaint with Vincents games is that you need to read and think about his rules too closely. A lot of people missed that you were supposed to use go aggro for that kind of stuff and started using seize by force for a bunch of stuff (not helped by the ambiguous use of that move in the play example). So he's moved seize by force to the optional battle moves where it belongs and spelled out that you're supposed to use go aggro for sucker punches etc. It's clearly not a separate move, it's just spelling out that you can do the whole "he caves and gets his face smashed in / he forces your hand and gets his face smashed in" thing in a way that is more intuitive.
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Feb 8, 2016 12:54
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Actually, looking into it, all the Tatical Battle Moves are the Optional Battle moves from 1e without the guide of a Battle Clock. Altered, yes, but basically that.
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Feb 8, 2016 14:26
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I quite like that the Chaotic Free For All is the default and the battle moves are off to one side. It gives the impression that unless you really get your act in order, what you might end up with is a chaotic free for all (this is Apocalypse World, after all) no matter how much you want a battle. If you can't hold your gang together, and neither can they, it's just gonna be a big AK slap fight where everyone (everyone) is killed, rather than an actual battle where you can try and get what you want.
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Feb 8, 2016 14:31
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Doodmons posted:I quite like that the Chaotic Free For All is the default and the battle moves are off to one side. Yeah, I'm definitely feeling that the raw combat moves are going to be the mainstays. I'm looking forward to seeing the guidance on these. I can see busting our the road war moves a lot if you've got a driver, but probably not if you don't. Can I also say, I'm really liking gigs being on each and every playbook. That's a sweet touch.
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Feb 8, 2016 14:39
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Quick update in case you were holding off: the AW2 Kickstarter is now offering hardcover books for $10 more. Already upgraded my pledge, so it'll be nice to have that fancy looking thing on my shelf. Sadly I don't have $150 else I'd be tempted to see what my "artifact" would be. Anyone pledging at that level?
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Feb 21, 2016 18:28
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New playbook preview: The Waterbearer
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Feb 24, 2016 03:49
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RedMagus posted:Quick update in case you were holding off: the AW2 Kickstarter is now offering hardcover books for $10 more. Already upgraded my pledge, so it'll be nice to have that fancy looking thing on my shelf. Not I but I'm upgrading to hardcover, good looking out!
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Feb 24, 2016 05:09
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:New playbook preview: The Waterbearer This is amazing. It's game-area as a playbook. I mean, the Maestro'D is similar, but this is Sheriff + Hardholder.
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Feb 24, 2016 05:30
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It's going to be very different since you're trading the Hardholder's offensive power and Maestro's subtlety and social powers for defensive tools and a really powerful resource. There's no way of getting a gang for protection or really powerful offensive moves either, so you need to be really careful about leveraging your supply, especially with Touchstone levels of being a target.
Wrestlepig fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 05:57
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chaos rhames posted:It's going to be very different since you're trading the Hardholder's offensive power and Maestro's subtlety and social powers for defensive tools and a really powerful resource. There's no way of getting a gang for protection or really powerful offensive moves either, so you need to be really careful about leveraging your supply, especially with Touchstone levels of being a target. They can grab a gang and leadership as an advance.
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Feb 24, 2016 07:32
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