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Anyone got any tips on installing a new pressure relief valve on a water tank? My old one was leaking a little, I couldn't get it to seal up and hold (I could still seal it by pushing on the pin, but when I let go, it'd start dripping again) so I bought a new one, and that is leaking too. It's threaded in pretty snug, not leaking around the threads or anything, it's absolutely coming through the relief valve. It's enough of a flow that I can hear the fine hiss if I stand next to the tank. Is there some trick to initial installation of a valve like this that I'm not aware of?
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Jan 23, 2015 16:08
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Bad Munki posted:Anyone got any tips on installing a new pressure relief valve on a water tank? My old one was leaking a little, I couldn't get it to seal up and hold (I could still seal it by pushing on the pin, but when I let go, it'd start dripping again) so I bought a new one, and that is leaking too. It's threaded in pretty snug, not leaking around the threads or anything, it's absolutely coming through the relief valve. It's enough of a flow that I can hear the fine hiss if I stand next to the tank. Is there some trick to initial installation of a valve like this that I'm not aware of? For the record, how high is the temperature and what is it set at?
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Jan 23, 2015 18:26
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It appears the temperature is set at "A" whatever the hell that means.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:44
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If it's the same as my water heater, A is 140 (mine is currently set at B, 150, I should turn that down). If you've got the manual it will translate that for you.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:57
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So, update: the leaky relief valve led to a dying gate valve which led to a malfunctioning expansion tank which led alllllllll the way back to a bad solder joint not even six feet downstream from the meter. RIP Saturday. Still, I get to wield fire and sling molten metal, so it's not all bad. And I'm replacing the gate vale with a quarter turn ball valve, so there'll be one less of those things in the house. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the expansion tank was the problem here, I think it just wasn't working, it looks like hell and was leaking at the fittings, I'm replacing the fittings all the way back to where it T's into the supply line. I'll post a picture later on.
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Jan 24, 2015 18:28
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Oi. If there's a pressure reducing valve, or other backflow preventing device on your water supply, and the expansion tank failed, the PRV might have been doing it's job. Scary, good you caught it.
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Jan 25, 2015 00:06
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I think the faucets would have likely start leaking before the system went critical, but yeah. And there is a pressure reducing valve right after the meter, so the house was indeed acting as a closed system. So I got the new expansion tank in, ripped out the old gate valve that supplied the water heater and replaced it with a quarter turn ball valve, that all went great. Glad I decided to pull the gate valve: the way everything is arranged, the supply comes in from the top, goes down to a T at the expansion tank, and then goes down to the gate valve, and then down to the water heater, all in a straight line. All the horrible nasty poo poo that the expansion tank was making was falling right into the gate valve, which looked HORRIBLE inside. And now, of course, I know that whatever poo poo didn't get caught in the valve fell into the tank. :/ Really, my big take away here is that I should have noticed this waaaaaay sooner. I mean look at this poo poo show, I'm kind of embarrassed:    The housing on that tank was so rotten the only thing holding it horizontal was the pressure inside. Once I relieved that, it sagged way down in a really obvious way, and I could waggle it back and forth with no resistance. It was pretty much gone, and definitely not doing anything useful. And the final product:  I had trouble getting that very topmost joint to take any solder, I think I made a mistake by soldering from the bottom up so by the time I got to that one, all the flux had dried up inside the uppermost joint and no new solder would take. It looked like it was okay at first, but over the course of an hour under pressure it eventually developed a reeeaaal slow leak which I'll go back and fix tonight once the kids are all in bed. Otherwise, everything went great, minimal fuss. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand now that I've said that everything's great, the fuckin' pressure relief valve is still relieving. Wtf. I'm going to guess that it's because while this was all going on, it had to be opened and closed from time to time, and was forced into leaking by the faulty expansion tank from before I started examining the system closer. So first things first, I'll fix the minor leak I introduced at the top of all my solder joints, and then I'll address the relief valve. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 00:36
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Bad Munki posted:I think the faucets would have likely start leaking before the system went critical, but yeah. And there is a pressure reducing valve right after the meter, so the house was indeed acting as a closed system. If you haven't yet check your water pressure and the water temperature at a faucet. (run hot water into a glass then check the temp in the glass) A new T&P should NOT be leaking, even if you had to open/close it repeatedly. (unless you put it in then soldered a male adapter into it or something and cooked the rubber.
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Jan 25, 2015 01:06
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Jadunk posted:If you haven't yet check your water pressure and the water temperature at a faucet. (run hot water into a glass then check the temp in the glass) A new T&P should NOT be leaking, even if you had to open/close it repeatedly. (unless you put it in then soldered a male adapter into it or something and cooked the rubber. Nope, nothing like that, just threaded it on. It even came with thread tape already in place, so I didn't even have to futz with that. I'll see about checking the pressure tomorrow. There's no actual gauge anywhere on the system that I can see, so I'll have to slap something together.
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Jan 25, 2015 01:09
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Does anyone make pipe hangers that stick out an inch or so from the joist to leave room for pipe insulation? My attempts at the google just pull up commercial/industrial stuff built for much more insulation on much larger pipes.
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Jan 25, 2015 21:36
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Zhentar posted:Does anyone make pipe hangers that stick out an inch or so from the joist to leave room for pipe insulation? My attempts at the google just pull up commercial/industrial stuff built for much more insulation on much larger pipes. Either use the size hanger that matches the O.D. of the insulation (which means they don't have to be copper - so conduit straps are fine) or use copper pipe hangers and squeeze/zip tie your insulation around.  I don't know if you can find them anymore, but there used to be hangars that were just copper wire shaped into a "V" with a 90 on each end so you your pound the bent 90 part in like a nail. I haven't seen them actually for sale for quite some time.......my guess is they are probably not secure enough for code these days, but I'm not all that up on the plumbing code so that's just a guess. Motronic fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 21:44
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kid sinister posted:Got a bucket and flexible supply lines? Shut off the the stop valves, then open both hot and cold on that faucet. Slowly take the supply lines off the bottom of your faucet. If they start leaking excessively, get ready to close that nut back up. If they don't, take them all the way off, point that end into the bucket, hold the line with one hand and slowly open that stop valve with the other hand. Test that out for both hot and cold and get back to us with your results. We'll tell you where to find your clog from there. Thanks for the advice, took me a while to get to it. I did this and found rusty water and some debris from the cold water supply line. I ran it until it looked more or less clean which took a couple gallons of water to do. I also had my wife block off the faucet with her thumb and open it with one stop valve open at a time with the faucet connected, which pushed water through the faucet and out the other line into the bucket. That seemed to clear a little more what looked like dirt out. However it didn't fix the low flow problem. Flow is fine from the pipe itself, the blockage must be up in the body of the faucet somewhere since the mixer cartridge looks fine. Is there a way to clean out the body of the faucet, or should I just go get a replacement? Also I found that the previous owner of the house had kludged the sink drain connection with what looks like some sort of rubber cement. The tail piece or whatever it is called wasn't actually screwed into the sink drain, which appears to have damaged threads or something since I can't get them to screw together. I'll be going to HD to replace the whole drain probably. I found that out when I knocked it and it broke, and it was too late last night to go buy whatever parts I need for this poo poo. Edit - also does anyone have any recommendations for a under sink filter system I can put on the cold water supply? Something that can run through the regular faucet and not its own filtered water faucet. I guess it will have to deal with rust and other crap in the water. Is that going to kill filter life? Something like this: http://ecopure.com/product/main-faucet-drinking-water-filtration-system/ or http://www.amazon.com/Woder-Filter-Premium-000-gallon-Filtration/dp/B00MPGRUNW Looks like they just go inline with the cold water supply so installation should be fairly easy.. GanjamonII fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 14:38
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GanjamonII posted:Edit - also does anyone have any recommendations for a under sink filter system I can put on the cold water supply? Something that can run through the regular faucet and not its own filtered water faucet. I guess it will have to deal with rust and other crap in the water. Is that going to kill filter life? If you have "rust and crap" in the water it's going to clog up a polishing filter pretty rapidly, and you pretty much don't want this stuff in your water/faucets/water heater/appliances, so why not get something sensible you can put on the main supply? http://www.amazon.com/Culligan-HF-1...asin=B0000DH4LN Cheap, with cheap filter replacements and does a great job. Many choices of filter types so you can choose what best handles your issue. If that ends up not being "filtered enough" for your liking at the sink then you can put on one of those under sink small-micron filters and not have to replace it every 30 days.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:22
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Motronic posted:If you have "rust and crap" in the water it's going to clog up a polishing filter pretty rapidly, and you pretty much don't want this stuff in your water/faucets/water heater/appliances, so why not get something sensible you can put on the main supply? OK I didn't know that these were so cheap. Is this unit meant to be installed outside or somewhere inside the house? I have the main supply coming in through the backyard, and into a corner of the house. The pipe comes out of the ground a foot or two and then goes through the wall. Would I install this on the outside or have to install it in the crawlspace on the other side of the wall. And then silly question but I would need to cut the pipe and install this inline.. is there a guide somewhere that shows how to do this so I can see whether its something I feel comfortable doing myself?
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Jan 28, 2015 20:16
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They are intended for inside use, but if you have a water pipe out in the side of your house that's above ground I'm going to guess you live somewhere that it doesn't freeze so maybe you can get away with that (or find one that's appropriate for outdoor use). As far as installing it.........it's just basic plumbing. The one I linked is 3/4" NPT. So you convert that to whatever size and material type your water line is, turn off the water, cut the line and install it in the middle. You'll want to make sure there is a valve before it, as well as after (so all of the water in your house doesn't drain back when you change filters. And considering you need to change filters a crawl space would be miserable placement and likely lead to you never actually changing the filters on time.
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Jan 28, 2015 21:03
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Motronic posted:They are intended for inside use, but if you have a water pipe out in the side of your house that's above ground I'm going to guess you live somewhere that it doesn't freeze so maybe you can get away with that (or find one that's appropriate for outdoor use). I have a very, very similar filter, and it has a backflow preventer installed in it.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:02
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insta posted:I have a very, very similar filter, and it has a backflow preventer installed in it. Some of them even have a shut off that you turn and it completely stops flow in both directions so you can unscrew the filter housing without touching anything else. I still like to have a valve on both sides. It's cheap insurance.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:21
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So I'm a total retard and the supply line with the rust was actually the hot water. I got confused since cold water came out of it, and I probably didn't run it long enough to get hot water through it or something. I don't even know how I messed that up. I figured it out last night while replacing the sink drain. The previous owner literally created a connection between the strainer / drain whatever and the tailpiece out of silicone/rubber cement. There was no overlap of threads or anything. I don't understand why. I could have replaced the whole thing for <$20 if I didn't mind buying the cheap strainer basket instead of a nice one. Took ~ an hour to install going super slow and double checking everything too. I've noticed a pattern of cheap repairs (leaking roof? just replace the drywall in that part of the room with greenboard to try hide it!.. and not even one piece but three offcuts that make it look wavy and poo poo) and wondering what else is kludged this way. Anyway I'm going to follow instructions I found online to flush the hot water heater and see what comes of that. The heater itself is old and we've been talking about having it replaced with an electric (no gas where we live) instant hot water heater instead to take up less space so going to move that up to next month and probably get the plumber to also look at putting the whole house filter on the main supply. I don't know that I'm super comfortable with cutting the old iron pipes. I'm sure I can do it but I also don't want to gently caress it up and go without water for days while I figure out how to fix it.
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Jan 29, 2015 17:04
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Hey guys, I'm back, remember me? Went from this: to this:  on account of a leaky pressure valve? Well, that valve was still leaking, and after a few days, I finally got my hands on a pressure gauge. So as I understand it, expected pressure is around 45-55psi. Okay, cool, I'll just slap this thing on here and     So yes, as it turns out, my current pressure regulator valve is in fact working PERFECTLY and preventing my water system from exploding. (Note: I also tried that gauge on a cold-water hose outlet in the garage, got the exact same reading, just to be sure.) I have a pressure regulator valve just after the meter, but when this whole thing started, I hadn't touched it. With my pressure regulator gauge in place, I drained some water so it dropped back to a "comfortable" 80-ish, and then watched as it creeped back up to pressure-relief levels. The water heater wasn't running or anything. I'm going to look up the regulator valve I have to confirm an adjustment I'm going to make, but I'm guessing said regulator valve is likely shot? I'm on municipal water, shouldn't their system be supplying water at nowhere near this level anyhow? Is my house currently a ticking time bomb?
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Jan 30, 2015 17:59
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Bad Munki posted:Hey guys, I'm back, remember me? Went from this: Holy crap. It wouldn't surprise me if your PRV failed because it wasn't designed to deal with that much input pressure. Call your municipal water authority before you do anything else. You might get a free replacement PRV out of the deal.
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Jan 30, 2015 20:45
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Googling around suggests that municipal water shouldn't really be relied upon to be at any particular pressure, because they'll keep it at whatever they need to keep it at in order to get it where they need to get it, and that anything under like 180 is reasonable? The pressure reducing valve's tag claims it can take up to 300psi inlet pressure. e: Adjusted my post because I just realized PRV probably means Pressure Reducing Valve and not Pressure Relief Valve, the latter of those being what actually spawned this whole thing. PRV in question is a wilkins model 70. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 20:49
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Ooookay so on that recommendation, I called the water works and the pressure at the curb is calculated at 180, which is as expected on their end. Apparently back in 2006 everyone in this neighborhood signed a high pressure agreement waiver yadda yadda so it is what it is. I bought the house in 2012 and didn't notice any such thing, but who cares, whether I didn't notice it in the pile of paperwork (highly plausible) or didn't sign anything like that at all (also plausible) or even if it doesn't matter after the initial installation paperwork, it doesn't really matter, that's just how it is and so I guess I have a PRV to replace. Woo.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:18
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Bad Munki posted:Ooookay so on that recommendation, I called the water works and the pressure at the curb is calculated at 180, which is as expected on their end. Apparently back in 2006 everyone in this neighborhood signed a high pressure agreement waiver yadda yadda so it is what it is. I bought the house in 2012 and didn't notice any such thing, but who cares, whether I didn't notice it in the pile of paperwork (highly plausible) or didn't sign anything like that at all (also plausible) or even if it doesn't matter after the initial installation paperwork, it doesn't really matter, that's just how it is and so I guess I have a PRV to replace. Woo. I'm wondering what the benefit(s) of a high pressure system is(are).
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Jan 30, 2015 21:21
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Bad Munki posted:so I guess I have a PRV to replace. Woo. You should be able to find a rebuild kit for like $80. This is the way to go - not only is it cheaper but you don't need to remove the PRV from the line so no soldering/undoing fittings.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:22
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Well, for one, I guess, I can crank up the pressure and have some wicked awesome showers. Another benefit is that lots of gadgets on my system will be pretty new at all times because I'll be replacing them more often than otherwise.  For the city, though, I imagine the biggest benefit is just that they don't have to maintain certain gear or be responsible if something fucks up.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:22
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Motronic posted:You should be able to find a rebuild kit for like $80. Yeah, actually this morning before I even posted here I was already looking into cartridges. Home depot has them, but not in town, can't get one until like the second week of february. Local contractor plumbing shop didn't carry them and was out of valves altogether. I have a couple other places I'm going to try though. Amazon has them for the 1" 70XL but mine's just the 3/4" 70, and it looks like I can get a whole new valve for <$80. Is there anything I should look for or look out for here? Brands/specs/etc? If I can't find a repair kit, I mean.
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Jan 30, 2015 21:27
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Bad Munki posted:Is there anything I should look for or look out for here? Brands/specs/etc? If I can't find a repair kit, I mean. I don't think there's much to worry about. The 70/now 70XL seems to be the pretty bog standard residential PRV that I've seen all over the place. How bad could they be? (and I obviously had no idea they were rated all the way up to 300 PSI so that's even better)
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Jan 30, 2015 21:50
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Well I found a new valve at the Ace up the street, $65, last one on the shelf. The only real difference is that the Wilkins 70 I have is all bronze including the shroud, whereas this one has a plastic shroud it looks like? "CASH ACME" brand which jesus christ way to brand yourself as budget line, but I may just be skeezed by that on cynical principle alone, so it's probably fine. I'm feeling less and less inclined to do gymnastics for this issue, though, so if this one, say, has slightly different dimensions and won't fit right into the space provided and would necessitate replacing some pipe to make fitting meet up, I'm just going to return it and get the same one as I have now. Unless someone says something like "Oh crap don't use that brand holy poo poo dude" or "definitely get the one with the brass shroud because reasons." Any input before I cut this box open?
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Jan 30, 2015 22:26
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PuTTY riot posted:I'm wondering what the benefit(s) of a high pressure system is(are). You can sustain higher flow rates through the same volume of pipe (assuming pressure drop was the limiting factor), or maintain adequate pressure for higher elevation changes.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:27
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Zhentar posted:or maintain adequate pressure for higher elevation changes. I suspect that' why they did it here: there's a series of neighborhoods going up this hill, it's a pretty big elevation change, and this way the water company doesn't have to regulate at every single street.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:28
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Bad Munki posted:I suspect that' why they did it here: there's a series of neighborhoods going up this hill, it's a pretty big elevation change, and this way the water company doesn't have to regulate at every single street. Pretty common reason for it around here. We've had tons of 50's-70's homes suddenly get adjusted from the 65psi they've been at for 40+years up to 110-120 because the water district doesn't want to put in a pump station for the new development going in that's on the hill instead of being down in the valley. As far of brands of PRV are concerned for really high pressure (inlet pressure >150 daytime, which likely means >220 at night) I prefer to use a Watts LF25AUB-S-DU-Z3 (So basically a Watts 25AUB that has double solder unions). Last company I was at we settled on those because they held up the longest in the neighborhood we have around here that spikes overnight well above 200psi. For a few customers we actually put 2 in with a hard piped pressure gauge in between so that they would know when the first one fails. It only took them having a couple floods from burst supply lines due to cheaper PRV's blowing out before the customer got serious about their water pressure problem.
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Jan 31, 2015 05:40
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Well, I went ahead and installed the cheap one I picked up, we'll see how it goes. The one thing I didn't do but would still like to is to put a shutoff right AFTER the PRV in case I have to service it again, it'd be nice to only have to drain a few inches instead of the amount I had to. Also, possibly a T just before the PRV that I could put a pressure gauge on permanently or possibly even some monitoring stuff to see what it does over the course of time, since it might spike at certain times of day. In any event, everything seems good so far. Pressure is holding perfectly well at 45psi and nothing appears to be leaking, although I'll be double checking that in the morning once everything's had some time to sit under pressure. Also, since I had to drain all the way back to the meter, it gave me a chance to repair the pinhole leak I'd discovered in one of the solder joints just downstream from the PRV (probably made evident only because of the time under 150psi). Wasn't able to repair that one before because there was water in the pipe sinking any applied heat. So far, though, I'm happy. Things are looking good. Fingers crossed I don't find any leaks by morning. And even if the valve is poo poo, in all honesty, it only has to least about a year and a half, then I'm outta here and it's someone else's problem. 
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Jan 31, 2015 05:56
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Bad Munki posted:Well, I went ahead and installed the cheap one I picked up, we'll see how it goes. The one thing I didn't do but would still like to is to put a shutoff right AFTER the PRV in case I have to service it again, it'd be nice to only have to drain a few inches instead of the amount I had to. Also, possibly a T just before the PRV that I could put a pressure gauge on permanently or possibly even some monitoring stuff to see what it does over the course of time, since it might spike at certain times of day. Just get a pressure gauge with a lazy hand. Hook it up to your hose and leave it on overnight. Bad Munki posted:So far, though, I'm happy. Things are looking good. Fingers crossed I don't find any leaks by morning. Haha, fair enough.
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Jan 31, 2015 06:19
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As far as the high pressure thing goes, to be honest, if I were going to be here longer I would actually kind of prefer that, as it'd be helpful if I wanted to have, say, sprinklers/irrigation without a hundred different zones to cycle through, so there's that.
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Jan 31, 2015 06:22
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Bad Munki posted:As far as the high pressure thing goes, to be honest, if I were going to be here longer I would actually kind of prefer that, as it'd be helpful if I wanted to have, say, sprinklers/irrigation without a hundred different zones to cycle through, so there's that. If you're saying you'd like to have the sprinklers on the high pressure side, I disagree. When you've got 200PSI supply to your sprinkler heads you're gonna be replacing sprinkler heads alarmingly fast. (say about 2-3 a week) I would say you could stand to turn that PRV up, I usually aim to have them set at 50-55 for a single story house, 60-65 for two story.
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Jan 31, 2015 07:06
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Well, I was sooooo close. Everything looks absolutely fantastic this morning, except I have the SLOWEST weeping leak on (one of?) the threaded joints on the new PRV. I mean it's SO slow. The slab underneath where it's dripping is able to wick the water away faster than it can pool (at least for now), and while I sat there watching it for a minute, I saw it drip once. Still, it's a drip, and needs to be fixed. I tightened it down pretty well, I'd be hard pressed to go much further, I think. I put a couple wraps of teflon tape on the threads. This is on the low-pressure side of the valve. Should I try using more/less tape? Some other thread compound? Other than that, it all looks 100%, and incidentally fixed a number of other minor issues: the toilets are quieter, the faucets are quieter, the water pipes don't "chirp" as the pressure equalizes, etc. Glad I got it sorted out. And now I know a number of warning signs that the PRV is going bad for the future, so +1 to Homeowner Competence. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 16:57
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I like to wrap threaded fittings in teflon tape, then spread some pipe dope ontop of that. Never had a leak.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:11
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Here's a good video I found that really helps with gas line installs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvq78PfIyCw
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Feb 13, 2015 07:14
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Helping a buddy this weekend with a drain/vent pipe (ABS) in his kitchen. It's currently located (or was located, it's been removed) on the exterior side of the kitchen wall- i.e. the vent pipe was fastened to the siding and terminated above the roof, a Tee fitting was connected to the vent and run through the siding into the kitchen sink base cab cavity, and a drain was connected below the tee and run into the basement crawlspace where it connected to the main drain line (sorry no pics; hope this makes sense). He removed the drain/vent because he redid the siding and doesn't want the drain/vent exposed on the exterior of the house. He was told by the building dept that he could do it either way, run it on the exterior or run it in the interior. The problem is that the 2x4 wall on the kitchen side sits on a 4x6 beam that sits on top of a concrete foundation, so it doesn't seem possible/practical to run it through the bottom plate into the crawlspace. So he's been trying to figure out a way to run the pipe from the crawlspace through the floor into the base cab, and then run the vent between the studs and up and out through the roof. There's also a 4' wide window right above the base cab, so the vent will have to run horizontally or diagonally before going vertical. The crux of the issue is how to run the vent from inside the base cab to inside the wall. Any help will be greatly appreciated- thanks.
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Feb 15, 2015 21:17
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This pic may help describe the situation. Trying to figure out the best way to get a vent pipe like that into the wall. Maybe use a 45 elbow off the vertical pipe to run a section of pipe into the wall, then another 45 to run the pipe diagonally through the studs to clear the window, then a 90 to go vertical through the roof? Thanks.
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Feb 15, 2015 21:23
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