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He's replaying a memory. The memory isn't going to change because you don't look like Golbez, whether he sees you that way or not.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:06
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I don't deny the likely connection, I just don't think that's related to the lack of a visible face. The face isn't visible because it's a memory from the PoV of that face. It's not a 3rd person vision of the actual event like an Echo trip. It's not an Echo because the people with us are also experiencing it.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:09
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isn't the salient question here actually "why did they make such a big conspicuous show of knocking off the helmet only to not show his face, when they could have knocked him down with the helmet on and shown his full body?" did i forget the helmet mind-controlling him or something? the weird thing is they set up for a face reveal no one was waiting for and then pointedly don't give it.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:10
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Besides, a magic user that travels the realm in times of war looking to recruit allies and ultimately fails sounds like an Alphinaud shard. Knocking off the helmet is symbolic. It's there, empty, waiting for Durante to take it.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:11
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Valentin posted:isn't the salient question here actually "why did they make such a big conspicuous show of knocking off the helmet only to not show his face, when they could have knocked him down with the helmet on and shown his full body?" did i forget the helmet mind-controlling him or something? the weird thing is they set up for a face reveal no one was waiting for and then pointedly don't give it. Yeah, if the goal isn't to show the face at all why knock-off the helmet and then make a big visual effort of hiding the face. It's a weird cutscene all around and I definitely buy "Golbez himself didn't know what he looked like" but then what does that cutscene actually look like in universe. Because Durante definitely is seeing Golbez's actual face, and the NPCs with you aren't reliving the memory first person if you do it with NPCs, only you are "Golbez" they're not. Orcs and Ostriches posted:Besides, a magic user that travels the realm in times of war looking to recruit allies and ultimately fails sounds like an Alphinaud shard. As far as failed Azem shards it fits perfectly fine. Remember that we're not always perfectly successful after all, and we know that the WoL has been reincarnating on the source and not always winning (it's just not been recognised as Azem until the most recent reincarnation cycle).
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Oct 6, 2023 05:12
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i guess "so durante can pick it up" is an answer. but that's a long walk for a short drink of water, especially given that they could've just animated the helmet remaining behind when the rest of the body vanished, and the next several shots are forced to contort around the helmet removal in distracting ways that draw attention to the face and its absence e: i'm realizing this is why i initially assumed he was beheaded and didn't just have the helmet knocked off; if you assume golbez was beheaded and the head just disappeared from the helmet when the rest of the body did, that actually explains why they show it (it confirms he's dead dead) and why they can't show the head (it's not there, too much gore, no "beheaded golbez body" model). Valentin fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 05:13
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Valentin posted:i guess "so durante can pick it up" is an answer. but that's a long walk for a short drink of water, especially given that they could've just animated the helmet remaining behind when the rest of the body vanished, and the next several shots are forced to contort around the helmet removal in distracting ways that draw attention to the face and its absence why would this happen. this makes no sense
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Oct 6, 2023 05:16
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Valentin posted:i guess "so durante can pick it up" is an answer. but that's a long walk for a short drink of water, especially given that they could've just animated the helmet remaining behind when the rest of the body vanished, and the next several shots are forced to contort around the helmet removal in distracting ways that draw attention to the face and its absence Ultimately this is why I think it's meant to mean something that we don't see the original Golbez's face. Because the cutscene puts great efforts to hide it in a really distracting and obvious way. There are better ways to do that cutscene if you don't want to make the face important, making a cutscene with an extended shot where you should see the face but it's blocked makes the mystery an actual mystery.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:16
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Arist posted:why would this happen. this makes no sense i mean, why does the armor vanish? why doesn't the helmet vanish with the other armor in the current sequence of events? literally any outcome makes sense. it's a magic helmet on a vanishing body.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:17
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Valentin posted:i mean, why does the armor vanish? why doesn't the helmet vanish with the other armor in the current sequence of events? literally any outcome makes sense. it's a magic helmet on a vanishing body. When you put someone in a memoria crystal their clothes go too, that's been established before so that's why the armour does. Durante turned Golbez into a Memoria, rather than kill him.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:21
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Valentin posted:isn't the salient question here actually "why did they make such a big conspicuous show of knocking off the helmet only to not show his face, when they could have knocked him down with the helmet on and shown his full body?" Because, for the purposes of cinematography, they had to establish both that Golbez was knocked flat in the dirt and vulnerable and that he'd lost his helmet. Combining them together into a single shot establishes those elements, provides a symbolic representation of Golbez having lost his identity with his helmet separated from his body, and helps to cover the hole in the budget where a fully modelled Golbez face would've needed to be.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:23
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They just didn't want to design a whole head to show up in 5 seconds in one cutscene
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Oct 6, 2023 05:31
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There are allowed to be heroes that aren't us, failed or otherwise. Like making various heroic figures an Us runs counter to the game tbh. We inspire others on our journey but they are the ones taking the steps. I feel the whole point is that you don't have to be a special snowflake to believe in hope or strive to make the world better. Uh you do have to be rad to teleport a lot though
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Oct 6, 2023 05:33
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It's actually a camera helmet. His actual head is inside the armor. The whole thing is actually a mini-mech, that's why it's so huge, and why Durante is able to use it despite being of less ridiculous size.
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Oct 6, 2023 05:34
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Golbez is clearly just too hot to show
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Oct 6, 2023 05:35
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GloomMouse posted:There are allowed to be heroes that aren't us, failed or otherwise. Like making various heroic figures an Us runs counter to the game tbh. We inspire others on our journey but they are the ones taking the steps. I feel the whole point is that you don't have to be a special snowflake to believe in hope or strive to make the world better. Uh you do have to be rad to teleport a lot though Absolutely, and Zero is an example (we inspire her but she's obviously not an Azem shard at this point although that was a theory for a while). It's just that the original Golbez, friend of Durante, does specifically get some interesting hints/parallels in the story itself with us in a way that could, or could not, be suggesting Golbez the original was a shard of Azem. The only other case of this scenario (hints but no confirmation) is the Samurai from the Four Lords story Tenzen. Every other hero except Ardbert who is explicitly stated to be an Azem Shard anyway, is their own person. The story absolutely is about hope/striving to make the world better, we inspire others constantly to do so. It's literally just a theory I have about original Golbez that has some further evidence from this story, and I saw the no-face on original Golbez as, if not a hint, not a negation of the theory. Edit: One of the actual traits that Azem and Shards of Azem do explicitly have is how inspirational they are to others towards heroism. It's a specific trait that is applied to Azem and Azem Shards that we already do know of and which is brought up even outside that. It comes up in the Alliance Raid from this patch, it comes up in short stories online, it comes up in crossover content with the Nier Gacha game about Hades memories/backstory. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 05:38
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Lord_Magmar posted:
this is the next level iceberg I'm on right now
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Oct 6, 2023 05:56
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Waffleman_ posted:They just didn't want to design a whole head to show up in 5 seconds in one cutscene april fools joke idea for SE: it's that cutscene but the camera keeps panning a little more to reveal golbez wearing a slightly smaller helmet
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Oct 6, 2023 05:59
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Its probably fair to say that not all WoLs are Azem shards, but all Azem shards are WoLs. Personally really concerned about some of the WoLs I've been summoning through Azem's crystal, they seem to spend a lot of time tanking the ground and I worry for their shards.
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Oct 6, 2023 06:05
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I don't think the game would be subtle about someone being an Azem tbh.
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Oct 6, 2023 06:14
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I don't think the game would be subtle about someone being an Azem tbh. Ardbert was handled with subtlety until the big reveal imo, and Tenzen happened beforehand in a subtle way to suggest but not confirm a reincarnation situation.
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Oct 6, 2023 06:17
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And if they keep doing that it'll suuuuck. Ardbert is still the only confirmed Us and it was a huge deal. Let it stay that way please. It's one of those things that sounds like it makes stuff more interesting but really just makes the world small.
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Oct 6, 2023 06:31
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I would assume that anything involving Azem, the Ancients, and the Sundering is going to fade into the background come Dawntrail. The whole point of Myths of the Realm is that mankind is strong enough to stand on our own now. To keep bringing up the Ancients would just undercut that message. We'll probably keep the Azem crystal just as way of explaining away having a party for trials/raids, but nothing beyond that. 1stGear fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 06:40
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Lord_Magmar posted:Ardbert was handled with subtlety until the big reveal imo, and Tenzen happened beforehand in a subtle way to suggest but not confirm a reincarnation situation. I mean yeah? There was a whole big reveal for Ardbert. Not sure we will return to the question of Golbez so if they were an Azem I’d expect a big reveal.
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Oct 6, 2023 06:40
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could be wrong but isnt tenzen's soul stuck powering that seal though? and if so that would mean he never actually reincarnated because he hadn't entered the lifestream until we go & free him by defeating the big bad of the four lords questline (i forgot the name)
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Oct 6, 2023 06:44
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Pyp posted:could be wrong but isnt tenzen's soul stuck powering that seal though? and if so that would mean he never actually reincarnated because he hadn't entered the lifestream until we go & free him by defeating the big bad of the four lords questline (i forgot the name) I recall it being more of an imprint or part but not all of his soul but I haven't done the trials at all recently. It's an implied ambiguous theory not a hard fact (compared to Ardbert) and it feels like original Golbez is presented similarly. It could be or it could not and the story isn't really going to make that choice for you unless it comes up again later. Arguably Golbez is more likely, also I'm going to be clear I am not necessarily wanting more Azem Shards to show up as it stands. It's why I never wanted Zero to be one, but the idea of an "evil/corrupt" Azem is more or less the only version of another Azem Shard I'd want to really see, because that's got an interesting story hook. Ultimately none of which will matter as we move away from the Ancients as story details in general, although they're also not going to never be mentioned either because that's not really how the writing in FFXIV works.
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Oct 6, 2023 06:51
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Pyp posted:free him by defeating the big bad of the four lords questline (i forgot the name) That's okay they forgot to make a model for it.
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Oct 6, 2023 06:52
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We already did the "What if heroic Azem but on the wrong side of things" and his name was Themis, an ancient that literally hung out with Azem and thought they were the bees knees. And now a not-Azem doing similar in Golbez. I don't think there's anything to be gained from doing it yet again but now certified Azem flavored bad-good guy
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Oct 6, 2023 06:59
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Valentin posted:isn't the salient question here actually "why did they make such a big conspicuous show of knocking off the helmet only to not show his face, when they could have knocked him down with the helmet on and shown his full body?" did i forget the helmet mind-controlling him or something? the weird thing is they set up for a face reveal no one was waiting for and then pointedly don't give it. Yeah this is what I was getting at. It was like they were drawing attention to the fact that they weren't showing you his face. I'll chalk it up to just an odd cutscene direction choice though.
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Oct 6, 2023 07:18
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Whether or not Golbez is an Azem shard showing the face is irrelevant because there's clear precedent that shards of the same person don't need to look alike.
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Oct 6, 2023 07:20
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Mainwaring posted:Whether or not Golbez is an Azem shard showing the face is irrelevant because there's clear precedent that shards of the same person don't need to look alike. Indeed, and they like to let you headcanon your own Azem appearance, so not showing Golbez face could be the same thing.
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Oct 6, 2023 07:25
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So question to anybody who got through 6.5 but didn't do the Eden Raids Does Gaia still show up? Or does the cutscene just cut out earlier and she's not there as an NPC to talk to afterwords?
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Oct 6, 2023 07:33
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Lord_Magmar posted:Indeed, and they like to let you headcanon your own Azem appearance, so not showing Golbez face could be the same thing. No? How is that at all the same thing? Dr Pepper posted:So question to anybody who got through 6.5 but didn't do the Eden Raids The latter.
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Oct 6, 2023 07:43
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GloomMouse posted:And if they keep doing that it'll suuuuck. Ardbert is still the only confirmed Us and it was a huge deal. Let it stay that way please. It's one of those things that sounds like it makes stuff more interesting but really just makes the world small. There's only five reflections left. Ardbert is one shard, and he failed in a way that we supplanted him, so that leaves four potential WoL shards of Azem left. If we retroactively sorted out the Golbez shard, that means we've got three more intact reflections with Azem shards to awkwardly go "hey, you, it's me, sorta" to. That'll carry us for another ten years easily.
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Oct 6, 2023 09:29
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1stGear posted:I would assume that anything involving Azem, the Ancients, and the Sundering is going to fade into the background come Dawntrail. The whole point of Myths of the Realm is that mankind is strong enough to stand on our own now. To keep bringing up the Ancients would just undercut that message. This, to be honest. We'll still pull out the crystal to have a lore reason why we're able to summon seven other WoLs while in bumfuck nowhere, but other than that we're slowly gonna move away from the whole ancient thing. I do think they'll introduce a new Ascian character at some point though - whether sundered or whole, but one that simply did not and does not care about their past life whatsoever and actually kinda vibes with life on the Source. But yet retains memories of Elpis and the ancient way of life to be a lore-exposition person for people who start in Dawntrail. We already do have one with Erichtonios or whatever his name was but he's stuck in Labyrinthos for now. Not me wanting Twink Themis around to join us on adventures or anything 
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Oct 6, 2023 12:46
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also First Person Echo Visions aren't particularly common, to the point that I actually struggle to think of one prior to Golbez. The only other first person echo I can remember since 2.0 is during ShB when we see G'raha's past while he's in Ishgard reading Heavensward, trying to decide the best time to summon us to the First.
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Oct 6, 2023 13:50
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Dr Pepper posted:So question to anybody who got through 6.5 but didn't do the Eden Raids In the inn room, you can re-watch the cutscene and if you untick the "reflect quest progression" box it will show you that version
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Oct 6, 2023 13:53
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Mainwaring posted:Whether or not Golbez is an Azem shard showing the face is irrelevant because there's clear precedent that shards of the same person don't need to look alike. IF they reveal Golbez to be a shard of Azem, they'll probably just make him look like Ardbert, who just looks like the default WOL from trailers. I remember having finishing shadowbringers, forgetting the ARR trailer/intro, then seeing the WOL in the ARR trailer and thinking "why was Ardbert there in ARR???"
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Oct 6, 2023 14:11
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One thing I thought while running Thaleia is how over indicated some of the attacks are. Thaliak's aoe knockback is the big offender. -A clone spawns at the side of the arena -Clone jumps into the water -Waves start spawning -Big aoe indicator is shown It's been commonplace for long enough that it's safe to assume any water based attack from the side of the arena is a knockback. Just makes that one attack long and excessive. Oschon has a different problem, in that he has a few extremely basic attacks with overly elaborate indicators. The second phase AoE where the arrows loop around and hit the same point is one, and where the clone spawns and jumps to an edge doing a wide cleave inward feels like another. Almost feels like they're test beds for new styles of indicators but they haven't been utilized effectively. Just feel visually noisy for how little information they convey.
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Oct 6, 2023 16:40
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Yeah I think those indicators are coming back attached to spicy mechanics in future. Thaliak's push has the gotcha of the damage balls after the first one and i've seen a lot of folks miss it, mainly because they were looking for something bad they were going to be pushed into. Myself I thought Piton Pull was going to be a... pull
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Oct 6, 2023 16:46
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