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Didn't Guerrilla or someone actually respond to that stuff in an interview around or after the game came out?
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Nov 16, 2017 07:06
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Brother Entropy posted:is there an article that makes a case for horizon being culturally appropriative beyond 'there's some native influence' though, preferably written by an actual native american? there was actually an article linked to in the paste piece that goes into problems with hzd and some other games https://medium.com/@dialacina/what-we-talk-about-when-we-dont-talk-about-natives-60f4af9ef675#.4c84bl22z
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Nov 16, 2017 07:12
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Ok I read the whole article and it’s kind of bullshit because it presupposes that white people never lived in tribal agricultural societies, dressed in animal skins, and hunted We did. We did all those things in different parts of the UK and Europe and Russia. Also Turok, Delsin, and to much lesser extent Connor from assassins creed were great representation in that their race was a factor but not a giant “noble savages” art piece about the trail of tears and the struggles of native reservation lifestyles. Cultural Appropriation doesn’t make sense in this context because Aloy isn’t using native culture to get away with poo poo natives wouldn’t get away with, Ally’s tribal culture is literally HER CULTURE, it just happens to borrow traits from real analogues from our Earth
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Nov 16, 2017 07:24
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fair enough, the main point i was trying to make is that it seems like a lot of times when writers bring up issues like this people act like no one could possibly have a problem with it and that somehow the writer is trying to pretend to care about something they don't for whatever reason. a lot of people have issues with representation of various types of minority groups and the reasons and writing are out there if you look for it.
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Nov 16, 2017 07:42
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meh
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Nov 16, 2017 07:44
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I think it is very appropriate to use inspiration from other cultures if it facilitates world building. Shocking, I know. I also didn't even bother reading any of that clickbait to come to this conclusion.
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Nov 16, 2017 07:46
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inferis posted:fair enough, the main point i was trying to make is that it seems like a lot of times when writers bring up issues like this people act like no one could possibly have a problem with it and that somehow the writer is trying to pretend to care about something they don't for whatever reason. a lot of people have issues with representation of various types of minority groups and the reasons and writing are out there if you look for it. The problem I have is that a lot of internet talking heads these days seem to have a huge issue with people drawing any inspiration whatsoever from other cultures. I remember the other article linked, and while the term "brave" and "savage" are definitely inspired by Native Americans, I fail to see how the game used those terms distastefully or out of context. If something is distasteful or offensive, I can fully understand why people are bothered by it, but when we hit the point of "you can't depict this, culture theft!, everything is sacred and you aren't allowed to enjoy it!. I want to hear a drat good reason why that is not ok and all of these articles fail miserably at it. All I see here is "that's not yours and you can't use it", which is so short sighted and artistically bankrupt its ridiculous. veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Nov 16, 2017 |
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Nov 16, 2017 07:59
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i'm not gonna disagree with you that there is a lot of bad writing on the internet, but i also don't think that most of the writing about this kind of thing is taking such a hard stance. it's less 'you can never use elements of culture x' in your art and more 'a lot of people have done this VERY bad in the past so you should probably be extra careful when using them' in the broadest sense
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Nov 16, 2017 08:19
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I do think there is an imbalance in all media that borrow from indigenous aesthetics, mythology and culture without actually featuring indigenous people in central roles themselves. Now there are a lot of plot contrivances in Horizon Zero Dawn for why this is true so it's not a 1:1 comparison, but it's understandable how a cursory reading of the game might lead one to see it as undue appropriation, especially if you never progressed past the first 1/3rd of the story to see the game's proportionally broad riffs on eurasian analogues with the Oseram and Carja tribes. These arguments will always be made, whether they're convincing or not is up to debate, but better representation for people of color within the games industry itself is an important goal that I think anybody should be behind, and would lead to more complete and nuanced writing.
exquisite tea fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Nov 16, 2017 |
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Nov 16, 2017 09:01
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I know this was discussed at some point in the horizon thread but was there ever an explanation why there were still decidedly black, Asian, white people etc 1000 years after all the usual cultural norms separating these people ceased to exist?
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Nov 16, 2017 09:50
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I like how all my childhood textbooks talking about "the great American melting pot" are probablywrong now and would likely get burned or shredded. Sounds like people want more of a salad now.Brother Entropy posted:lmao, that's about six months faster than i was expecting HGH fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Nov 16, 2017 |
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Nov 16, 2017 10:20
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HGH posted:I like how all my childhood textbooks talking about "the great American melting pot" are probablywrong now and would likely get burned or shredded. Sounds like people want more of a salad now. More like cookie dough icecream.
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Nov 16, 2017 10:24
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TF2 HAT MINING RIG posted:I didn’t hit max light, but I reached a point where most of the game rewards are low light loot and I’m wishing I hadn’t gone digital so I could get some of my money back. Always always buy physical
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Nov 16, 2017 10:38
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fridge corn posted:I know this was discussed at some point in the horizon thread but was there ever an explanation why there were still decidedly black, Asian, white people etc 1000 years after all the usual cultural norms separating these people ceased to exist? - Most recessive traits would not completely vanish across human populations, but stabilize at lower levels. - Even within homogenous populations, recessive traits would persist due to sexual selection, localized isolation, etc. - The ~750 year timeline would be insufficient to breed out recessive traits among the small, isolated populations of humans throughout the world. - Our classifications for what constitutes race are in fact completely arbitrary.
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Nov 16, 2017 10:45
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How much cultural appropriation does the DLC provide anyway? Is it a mid-game chunk of content, or a separate thing slapped onto the main menu?
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Nov 16, 2017 10:52
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It's looking like the new Valkyria game is at least returning to the WWI/II aesthetic. http://portal.valkyria.jp/new/en/ It's also a confirmed console/pc game, not a glorified mobile slot machine.
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Nov 16, 2017 10:54
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poptart_fairy posted:How much cultural appropriation does the DLC provide anyway? Is it a mid-game chunk of content, or a separate thing slapped onto the main menu? It's 10-15 hours of additional content with a zonewide storyline, not standalone, and connected to the world map. It ties into the main quest but isn't an epilogue, and come with some new weapons, outfits, and QoL improvements. It's significantly harder than the rest of the game and expected that you'll be fairly high level before attempting it.
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Nov 16, 2017 10:59
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exquisite tea posted:- Most recessive traits would not completely vanish across human populations, but stabilize at lower levels. Idk what recessive traits you are talking about but for something like skin pigmentation I don't think it works that way since there are several genes that affect that trait. Skin pigmentation can vary wildly between offspring of a mixed race pairing even between siblings of the same pairing. And even though it is possible for the offspring of two mixed race parents to be "fully black or white" like one of their grandparents, it is exceedingly rare due to multiple genes all having to go a certain way. In the end you are more likely to get a range of pigmentations within the middle of the scale like a bell curve where one side is light and the other dark.
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Nov 16, 2017 11:24
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exquisite tea posted:- Most recessive traits would not completely vanish across human populations, but stabilize at lower levels.
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Nov 16, 2017 11:24
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How is Cities: Skylines on PS4? Saw it was on offer and wondering if it is worth a punt. Can you build reasonably complex cities? Are there any performance issues?
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Nov 16, 2017 11:24
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MZ posted:How is Cities: Skylines on PS4? Saw it was on offer and wondering if it is worth a punt. Can you build reasonably complex cities? Are there any performance issues? I'm gonna give you my same response from last time this was asked: Generally speaking city builders are way better on PC just for the ease of UI and building. Using a m+kb is way more precise and easier to use than a controller. That's not to say that city builders are unplayable on console, Tropico 5 was great, but I feel like the genre in general is better suited for PC. YMMV though.
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Nov 16, 2017 11:28
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Did nobody playtest the Fireclaws in Horizon Zero Dawn: Frozen Wilds? They are just not fun to fight at all. Whether it's the assholes rock-throwing, the fire AOE, or just the power-slam, they will just gently caress you over at any range without stopping. I legitimately have no clue how you're meant to even try facing these things without the shield-weaver armor, and even taking their chestplate off doesn't actually help much. "Disables all fire attacks except the claws" just makes it stick to its most-annoying fire attacks without ever stopping. Nevermind the fact they pull your ropes out if you try to tie one down.
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Nov 16, 2017 12:09
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Zipperelli. posted:Generally speaking city builders are way better on PC just for the ease of UI and building. Using a m+kb is way more precise and easier to use than a controller. That's not to say that city builders are unplayable on console, Tropico 5 was great, but I feel like the genre in general is better suited for PC. YMMV though. Yeah I'm aware of this, but in the absence of a PC to play this on I was just wondering if it was a decent port or a dumpster fire.
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Nov 16, 2017 12:57
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inferis posted:there was actually an article linked to in the paste piece that goes into problems with hzd and some other games i appreciate you linking to this and it was a good read but tbh this article in particular seems a lot more about how people like game devs and journalists talk about horizon than the content of the game itself
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Nov 16, 2017 13:08
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Did nobody playtest the Fireclaws in Horizon Zero Dawn: Frozen Wilds? They are just not fun to fight at all. Whether it's the assholes rock-throwing, the fire AOE, or just the power-slam, they will just gently caress you over at any range without stopping. I legitimately have no clue how you're meant to even try facing these things without the shield-weaver armor, and even taking their chestplate off doesn't actually help much. "Disables all fire attacks except the claws" just makes it stick to its most-annoying fire attacks without ever stopping. Nevermind the fact they pull your ropes out if you try to tie one down. Shieldweaver is really weak against Fireclaws because it has no native resist. Equip the Blazon armor, chug fire potions, rope them down and blow up their shoulder + chest sacs with precision arrows. They're also vulnerable against Freeze and the new ice lance weapon.
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Nov 16, 2017 13:09
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You can also shoot them in the rear end with electric arrows for 4 free knockdowns.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:03
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Yeah the cool thing about HZD combat is that if you’re getting your rear end handed to you, there are at least 1-2 ways out of it by switching up your tactics or load out.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:07
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I vaguely recall some decent arguments about HZ:D borrowing a little *too* much from Native American culture - such as language and such - but to me, the basic concept for HZ:D is that it's *supposed* to be extremely jarring to see a white woman in tribal garb due to the anachronism of it all. That's not to say that it's either-or, but this is one of those cases where it makes perfect sense to have a white lead character.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:31
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exquisite tea posted:Shieldweaver is really weak against Fireclaws because it has no native resist. Equip the Blazon armor, chug fire potions, rope them down and blow up their shoulder + chest sacs with precision arrows. They're also vulnerable against Freeze and the new ice lance weapon. Yeah the Shieldweaver is something you only wanna wear when you're up against primarily physical attacks. The elemental resist armor + potion combo can drop the damage from elemental attacks to almost nothing. For whatever reason I could never get the shoulders to pop so my strategy was to rope, freeze, and lance. It's hard to get more than one lance off per freeze but god drat they do a ton of damage.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:52
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Rinkles posted:It's looking like the new Valkyria game is at least returning to the WWI/II aesthetic. All I can tell from that picture is that it will have guns. Valkyria Revoultion had guns and a war narrative and it was hot garbage so don’t get too excited until they specifically say they’re making another Chronicles game and not Revolution 2.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:09
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Regy Rusty posted:Yeah the Shieldweaver is something you only wanna wear when you're up against primarily physical attacks. The elemental resist armor + potion combo can drop the damage from elemental attacks to almost nothing. I've found that freezing + using a triple-stacked charged hardpoint arrow from the banuk bow can absolutely devastate anything. I can't say for certain how much it does, but it's ludicrous how much of a difference it makes.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:11
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The Black Stones posted:All I can tell from that picture is that it will have guns. Valkyria Revoultion had guns and a war narrative and it was hot garbage so don’t get too excited until they specifically say they’re making another Chronicles game and not Revolution 2.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:11
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I hope it's Revolution 2 
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Nov 16, 2017 15:12
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How do you look at the silhouette of what appears to be a FOmarl from Phantasy Star Online and conclude "World War I aesthetic."
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Nov 16, 2017 15:14
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If they remade Valkyria 3 but without all the limitations of the PSP and no budget then all would be forgiven.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:16
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If I wanted to play a good solid fantasy JRPG on PS4, which should I go for? I've already played most of the FF games, and was actually considering trying out a Dragon Quest game.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:17
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exquisite tea posted:How do you look at the silhouette of what appears to be a FOmarl from Phantasy Star Online and conclude "World War I aesthetic." Also the woman on the far right appears to be Vita Clotilde from Trails of Cold Steel.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:19
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Policenaut posted:I don't know if anyone's mentioned it here yet but Marvel Heroes is shutting down. No ETA given yet but I've read that this company usually gives a month's notice in advance. I liked this game and it sucks that it's shutting down but at least they're giving players some time to fool around! They lowered the prices on every Hero and costume for said hero to the absolute bare minimum in-game currency used to unlock them (1 shard, and you earn 1 every five minutes of play give-or-take) so you can at least fumble around and try out every character and see all their exclusive costumes. There was drama with the project lead being a horrible bigot and chauvinist, I think that sped things up. Also the fact that HZD's tribal cultures with their superstitious religions is making people get butthurt about cultural appropriation of native American stuff is itself inherently racist and stupid because it presumes that their culture is directly based on Native customs, which it's not. It's just a take on tribal society in the setting, and like tribal societies the world over, it's going through all the same hoops again. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Nov 16, 2017 |
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Nov 16, 2017 15:21
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exquisite tea posted:How do you look at the silhouette of what appears to be a FOmarl from Phantasy Star Online and conclude "World War I aesthetic." Because the soldiers looked to me in line with the Chronicles designs. Maybe I was overly wishful.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:21
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Verisimilidude posted:If I wanted to play a good solid fantasy JRPG on PS4, which should I go for? I've already played most of the FF games, and was actually considering trying out a Dragon Quest game. Tales of Berseria is a top ten ever JRPG as long as you don't require turn based combat.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:22
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