|
He was referring to the Part 1 and 2 dubs that had just come out. Everyone else seemed to be a bit more jovial about it, but Woolie sounded like he had just been sorely offended he had heard it at all, which was the funniest thing to me.
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 14:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 01:26 |
|
|
Captain Baal posted:disdain he tried to contain the one time they were talking about the JoJo dub had me smiling. I agree with you on the whole, it's stupid to get mad about it when you can just ignore it, but I don't see what's objectionable about preferring to play japanese games in japanese if you want the intended experience. Even if the dub is good, if it's not better than the original voicecast, I'm not going to watch/play it purely for the advantage of not having to read subtitles. Wakfu has a good dub, but I'm not gonna watch it, because most of the jokes are written for french. Justice Sloth fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Dec 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 15:22
|
|
|
Justice Sloth posted:I agree with you on the whole, it's stupid to get mad about it when you can just ignore it, but I don't see what's objectionable about preferring to play japanese games in japanese if you want the intended experience. Even if the dub is good, if it's not better than the original voicecast, I'm not going to watch/play it purely for the advantage of not having to read subtitles. Unless you speak japanese you aren't getting the intended experience
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 15:25
|
|
|
Andrast posted:Unless you speak japanese you aren't getting the intended experience You're right, even with perfectly transliterated subs I'm only getting a rough approximation of it, but if the dialogue is written by japanese people, and the voicecast in japanese is better, then I want to hear japanese people voice it. I know that it's bullshit when they say itadakemasu and the subs read "bon-appetit" but I'd prefer that to hearing a bunch of english goofballs come up with a hackneyed reason to all announce a word in unison before eating. But that doesn't mean I won't watch a dub if it has a better voicecast, there are bad and good voice actors within both demographics. Justice Sloth fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Dec 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
I like to play with Japanese VO because then I generally can't tell if the voice acting is poor. I miss out on some stuff like italian-american Dino in FF15 though which is unfortunate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 15:35
|
|
|
Justice Sloth posted:I agree with you on the whole, it's stupid to get mad about it when you can just ignore it, but I don't see what's objectionable about preferring to play japanese games in japanese if you want the intended experience. Because 1) assumes the "intended experience" is better, 2) underestimates both the English and Japanese languages in their ability to convey a message, and 3) is a proxy argument for "I think Japanese things are inherently superior", aka the fundamental weaboo argument.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:09
|
|
|
Tae posted:They really need to hire an editor like years ago. They're like the only huge subscriber base that still does their own videos at this point, which is nuts when you count up how many hours you lose and how they're still manually uploading videos. The only 'large' LPers I can think of that do their own editing is the TeamFourStar group, and that's mainly because KaiserNeko and Lanipator act as voices and editors for their stuff. Though 'Yes Yes Love Adventure Go' probably cost them a couple of monitors. It wouldn't be too hard to find an editor, either. SBFP is still a pretty large community with a lot of good will and name recognition. They could probably put out an ad and find a dude within days.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:14
|
|
|
Justice Sloth posted:I agree with you on the whole, it's stupid to get mad about it when you can just ignore it, but I don't see what's objectionable about preferring to play japanese games in japanese if you want the intended experience. Even if the dub is good, if it's not better than the original voicecast, I'm not going to watch/play it purely for the advantage of not having to read subtitles. Wakfu has a good dub, but I'm not gonna watch it, because most of the jokes are written for french. You're a loving weeb
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:24
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:You're a loving weeb Don't be an unpleasant oval office, dude presented a nice argument. EDIT: like, dub/sub discussions lead nowhere because it's ~~weebs~~ being insufferable about dubs being bad (and I've heard a lot of American dubs, they're pretty bad) and destroying the original (which is obviously stupid), and then the Opposite Day Crowd going "nah they're the best they're great gently caress you for liking the original better you disgusting rear end in a top hat". Like, that's not even exaggeration, that's how fast escalation happens. Some people would rather listen to the original voice tracks because they feel that's how it should be, or because it's harder to notice the bad acting, or because they prefer a character voice in that language. It's fine. It's fine. Dias fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Dec 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:30
|
|
|
J.A.B.C. posted:The only 'large' LPers I can think of that do their own editing is the TeamFourStar group, and that's mainly because KaiserNeko and Lanipator act as voices and editors for their stuff. Though 'Yes Yes Love Adventure Go' probably cost them a couple of monitors. Tfs don't edit their lp's, they hired someone to do it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:38
|
|
|
Justice Sloth posted:I agree with you on the whole, it's stupid to get mad about it when you can just ignore it, but I don't see what's objectionable about preferring to play japanese games in japanese if you want the intended experience. Even if the dub is good, if it's not better than the original voicecast, I'm not going to watch/play it purely for the advantage of not having to read subtitles. Wakfu has a good dub, but I'm not gonna watch it, because most of the jokes are written for french. There's nothing objectionable about it, but the intended experience isn't always the case. Resident Evil didn't get Japanese VOing until recent when RE6 and Revelations came out, yet you cannot deny that Resident Evil has largely been an english voice acted series. So are you gonna play a game that's largely known for its cheesy english vos (Even though they are genuinely good later) in Japanese because it's the intended experience? It's not a terrible argument nor am I even disagreeing with that perspective, but there's a lot of things you can look at that are made in Japan with original JP VOs and see how a dub can enhance a product or you can appreciate a dub. For a pretty big example look at MGS, are you seriously telling me you wanna play a game about military espionage nonsense that is coated in a million war, spy, and action film trips in Japanese? Don't get me wrong, Akio Ohtsuka's loving amazing, but that dude is not the voice of Snake to me nor to many others despite the fact he is by all accounts the original voice of Solid Snake. As I said, I'm not making GBS threads on people who prefer listening to the native language of a product for the place it was made for over a dub that was made to make something more accessible for the region it was made for, I'm making GBS threads on Woolie... because it's Woolie. Also Liam to a lesser extent, but he also gets on my nerves but not because of this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:40
|
|
|
The man's like a hedgehog or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:42
|
|
|
Tae posted:Tfs don't edit their lp's, they hired someone to do it. Multiple people even, there's the 1kids dude and someone else I think.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:42
|
|
|
Calling subs "the intended experience" is complete nonsense. Modern dubs also tend to be pretty good and I value the ability to play a game without having to read subtitles at the same time over being able to listen to a language I don't understand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:44
|
|
|
Neo_Crimson posted:Because 1) assumes the "intended experience" is better, 2) underestimates both the English and Japanese languages in their ability to convey a message, and 3) is a proxy argument for "I think Japanese things are inherently superior", aka the fundamental weaboo argument. Not necessarily, I think people certainly do make those assumptions, and such assumptions are almost always unfounded, but not 100% of the time. The "intended experience" often tends toward being the better option, not purely on the merit of being the intended experience, but on the merit that the original voicecast reflects the choices of the creators when the media was being made, while a foreign dub in most cases is going to be considered after-the-fact of the product becoming popular. (Though I'm not laboring under any illusion that the creators have 100% freedom of choice, Japan as much as the West has A-list voice talent that are chosen for recognisability over skill; Kana Hanazawa for instance.) I say most, because there are plenty of instances where that's not the case, Panty and Stocking, for example, being one of them. In that case, the original creators had an extensive relationship with the english dubbers, because they had the intent of making the main characters as verbose as possible, and felt that could be better expressed through english; as it's a more 'colourful' language when it comes to profanity. As for the ability to convey a message, when localisation is done well and the heart of the message is preserved, it's great; like Cowboy Bebop (e: or like was mentioned before I finished this post, MGS) for instance. But a lot of the time, particularly during scenes of tension, a line that was meant to be short and full of omitted words as japanese is wont to do, gets its delivery garbled by trying to find the closest english approximation, rather than just writing a better line that means the same thing. So it's definitely a case-by-case basis that should always be investigated, and ultimately comes down to personal preference, but I'm not going to pretend Liam's some kind of irredeemable weeblord purely for choosing one VO over another. Captain Baal posted:There's nothing objectionable about it, but the intended experience isn't always the case. Justice Sloth fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Dec 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:45
|
|
|
Well since we're on the topic of weebness BELIEVE IT Wish Shyamalan was working on this though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:52
|
|
|
Woolie will go see this movie and then talk about how he's still not back in
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:53
|
|
|
why
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:53
|
|
|
By the way, I've played the Personas in English and I don't really get why people HATE those dubs, for instance. Plus, due to a couple bad experiences, I'll also line up and shoot people that waste TO's times and wanna have their JPN waifu VO in Street Fighter. gently caress off, you play Cammy and you want the Japanese voice, and we're already one hour behind schedule.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:54
|
|
|
It can't be any worse than the Dragonball movie...right?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:54
|
|
|
The gun is loaded now and my finger's on the trigger and the barrel's in my mouth, but I'm still not back indattebayoDias posted:By the way, I've played the Personas in English and I don't really get why people HATE those dubs, for instance. I've been under the impression that weebs hate those dubs because they're weebs, but also scorned dub-players hate them because the voice-actors occasionally get dropped and replaced between spin-off games while the japanese voicecast stays relatively stable. Justice Sloth fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Dec 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
HGH posted:Well since we're on the topic of weebness Oh man, an anime adaptation directed by a dude with no directing credits other than an unreleased movie starring Zac Efron, and that anime is NARUTO? This is gonna be dope.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:57
|
|
|
In fact, I can say I don't believe it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 16:59
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:Calling subs "the intended experience" is complete nonsense. Modern dubs also tend to be pretty good and I value the ability to play a game without having to read subtitles at the same time over being able to listen to a language I don't understand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:02
|
|
|
I suppose an unknown director is at least somewhat better than a reputably terrible director? Either way, it'll be interesting if this comes out in the same week as Paul W.S Anderson's Monster Hunter. Truly a contest of who can strike while the iron is frostiest.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:03
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:Calling subs "the intended experience" is complete nonsense. Modern dubs also tend to be pretty good and I value the ability to play a game without having to read subtitles at the same time over being able to listen to a language I don't understand. I think the whole "intended experience" thing is more of a matter of how people value accuracy/how much of a purist someone is. I've had a friend tell me they got bitched at for playing a translated game rather then learning japanese? I mean, could go even further if you want to be truly pure - arguably the "pure" experience is being native to the culture and language a game was written in, as some of that stuff simply doesn't translate or even have the relevancy when translate. I think it's matter of how important accuracy is to the consumer. Something's always going to get lost in translation, but you're going to probably lose more with a dub then a sub since you won't have the same voice direction or w/e. Theres benefits to being inaccurate. Something like the Mother 3 translation is inaccurate to the japanese game because a ton of the jokes simply don't translate, but it's still amazingly well done. Also, to your point - I don't think reading subs is an "intended experience" since a native speaker isn't spending the same time reading.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:03
|
|
|
Every translation is an artwork in itself, in a manner of speaking.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:06
|
|
|
Dias I don't know where you get the impression people hate the persona dubs because ever since the game came out in 08 and I was a Teen Baal skulking /v/ in the waifu war trenches, even people who hated dubs were saying the Persona dubs are generally good and at some point an idea developed that an Atlus dub is a specific thing to Atlus when they use most of the same people other studios did. This is all coming around to the reveal that I am actively making GBS threads on P5's dub because I hate it and it has a very good JP cast for once.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:07
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Every translation is an artwork in itself, in a manner of speaking. so is Duwang like the hosed up "restored" Jesus fresco of translations?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:15
|
|
|
Captain Baal posted:Dias I don't know where you get the impression people hate the persona dubs because ever since the game came out in 08 and I was a Teen Baal skulking /v/ in the waifu war trenches, even people who hated dubs were saying the Persona dubs are generally good and at some point an idea developed that an Atlus dub is a specific thing to Atlus when they use most of the same people other studios did. I've read a lot of hate directed towards different VAs, although it might be because of the revolving VA door and their favorite characters having different voices now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's universally reviled but I've seen people with STRONG OPINIONS on that matter and...I mean, it's good. I pointed it out because it's the most unexplainable case I've seen going around, hehe. Also for my customary Brazilian Dub Fact that I'm not sure I told you here already but: Rocky I's fight ends in a draw in our dub, instead of a decision loss.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:18
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Also, to your point - I don't think reading subs is an "intended experience" since a native speaker isn't spending the same time reading. I'd agree with that, which is another reason why dubs vs subs is dumb as hell and also why calling subs "more pure" or w/e is dumb. Foxhound posted:It's probably different when you've grown up with subtitles. Everything that wasn't intended for children got subbed here (in filthy socialist northern Europe, as in not France/Germany/Spain/Italy where everything is dubbed) so you get used to following the text and on-screen events at the same time. It was most difficult in that time when you're 12-15 or whatever where your entertainment is not dubbed but you don't know enough English to not read the subtitles at all. That's when you got gud. I'm also pretty used to reading subtitles too, but I still prefer to not have to.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:19
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:I'd agree with that, which is another reason why dubs vs subs is dumb as hell and also why calling subs "more pure" or w/e is dumb. Oh, no, totally, I don't mean to imply anything by 'intended experience' other than the choice of voice-actor relative to the character. And even that's not a surefire bet for a better experience, Japan in particular has a bad habit of giving teenagers old-man voices when they're meant to be the 'cool', serious one of the group; often completely incongruously to their peers of the same age. Justice Sloth fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Dec 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:37
|
|
Oxyclean posted:so is Duwang like the hosed up "restored" Jesus fresco of translations? Duwang is more like a decent Spider-man toy put in a lovely box. There's some issues, the toy itself is beat up some and it can be hard to read the box, but ultimately it's still Spider-man, and that "Spider web BLASTER!" is neat enough that some would like it to be a real marketing phrase. The translation is not 'great', but it's readable after a bit, despite grammar issues there's a readable version of DiU in there that tells you what happened and has a nice flow. The old Vento Aureo translations are the Jesus fresco of translations, boasting decent grammar and complete nonesense in comics sans, including just making poo poo up on the fly and confusing maps of countries.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:51
|
|
|
ArmyOfMidgets posted:Duwang is more like a decent Spider-man toy put in a lovely box. There's some issues, the toy itself is beat up some and it can be hard to read the box, but ultimately it's still Spider-man, and that "Spider web BLASTER!" is neat enough that some would like it to be a real marketing phrase. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
Someone please buy one of those and send it straight to Ashens.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:26
|
|
|
p4 dub is fantastic. troy baker IS kanji, gently caress you
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:30
|
|
|
Oh yeah I didn't think of it but I can't stand some american english accents. I don't know enough about local dialects to tell where the ones I dislike are from (except hillbilly stuff) but I prefer british english a lot. The Last Story had a great dub.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:31
|
|
|
SOME times a sub is better because the voices match the characters better or the dub just has poo poo acting that you don't notice when it's not in your language. Unless the acting in the Japanese version is just that bad, which has happened a few times. Most of the time though dubs are equal to subs in every way. Like, I wouldn't trade the 80s Guyver OVA dub for anything. It's such a titanic piece of poo poo and it's great.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
Farg posted:p4 dub is fantastic. troy baker IS kanji, gently caress you matt mercer is better and i will fist fight you
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 19:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 01:26 |
|
|
Burkion posted:Most of the time though dubs are equal to subs in every way. Like, I wouldn't trade the 80s Guyver OVA dub for anything. It's such a titanic piece of poo poo and it's great. Okay here's where I dissent because I think the bad vo adds to that hosed-up scene where guyver gets wrecked by enzyme. But then again I think the best friends should do a let's watch of both American guyver films.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 19:12
|
|