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honestly i'd trust this proposal more if momentum's slate had a single non-coastal/chicago organizer on it.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:46
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Yeah, that's the part that bothers me about it too. Paid organizers, ostensibly, should be providing the most help to smaller, less established and more rural chapters that don't have enough volunteers to spread the work around and who often have less experienced activists who would benefit from training. But the momentum slate doesn't really seem to have consulted much with those folk before they made their proposals.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:26
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logikv9 posted:I went past too many posts, so if you requested the title and didn't get it just post again TIA logikv9 posted:
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Jul 24, 2017 21:14
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Hello DSA thread. 
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thx babe
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Jul 24, 2017 21:15
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https://twitter.com/RLisDead/status/889609674982555648
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Jul 25, 2017 00:22
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this rules
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Jul 25, 2017 00:46
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Serf posted:this rules
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Jul 25, 2017 02:44
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Serf posted:this rules
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Jul 25, 2017 02:58
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Serf posted:this rules
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Jul 25, 2017 03:19
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Serf posted:this rules
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Jul 25, 2017 03:28
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 now we talkin
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Jul 25, 2017 04:04
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2016: *ironically* all power to the Soviet 2017: all power to the Soviet
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Jul 25, 2017 04:19
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If anyone wants to join the east bay abolition caucus lmk and I'll get you on the mailing list and w.e lol- e: alternatively ask the woman @morganastra in the twitter replies fuck. marry. t-rex has issued a correction as of 04:42 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 04:31
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I'm apparently the only guy in the thread who's unimpressed by the Abolish Police platform
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Jul 25, 2017 05:44
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:I'm apparently the only guy in the thread who's unimpressed by the Abolish Police platform You better be
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Jul 25, 2017 05:48
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Proposed DSA Platform: socialist in the streets, shitposter with the tweets, weirdo in the sheets, turn the rich into delicious, well-marbled meats.
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Jul 25, 2017 06:17
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:I'm apparently the only guy in the thread who's unimpressed by the Abolish Police platform Eh it's an ideal I would like but pretty utopian. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 06:48 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 06:25
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Abolishing police completely as a concept is so retarded it's up there with abolishing personal property (as opposed to private property) so I'm gonna assume it's like, a call to dismantle the existing system and rebuild it
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Jul 25, 2017 07:28
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Larry Parrish posted:Abolishing police completely as a concept is so retarded it's up there with abolishing personal property (as opposed to private property) so I'm gonna assume it's like, a call to dismantle the existing system and rebuild it It's worth reading; it's short, and the actually policy proposals laid out in the plank are far more practical / less utopian than the marketing makes it sound. But I hate utopian marketing :|
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Jul 25, 2017 07:41
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:It's worth reading; it's short, and the actually policy proposals laid out in the plank are far more practical / less utopian than the marketing makes it sound. But I hate utopian marketing :| Yeah it's weird because the headline is embarrassing but like 98% of the article is great. Sprinkled throughout it is the argument "Here's a list of all the problems we're facing, and therefore, abolish police and prisons." Um, what?? Like are they just being cute and seeking to completely replace the system with things we'll have new words for but serve similar functions? (this would be good) Or are they being literal in which case they're completely insane.
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Jul 25, 2017 07:59
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I Am A Robot posted:Yeah it's weird because the headline is embarrassing but like 98% of the article is great. Sprinkled throughout it is the argument "Here's a list of all the problems we're facing, and therefore, abolish police and prisons." Um, what?? You start out in your teens with "smash the state", but by your 30s you can't say "ACAB" - that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, "police reform," and "prisoner rehabilitation" and all that stuff, and you're getting so abstract. And now you're talking about community engagement and all these things you're talking about are totally organizational things, and a byproduct of them is, capital gets hurt worse than the proles...
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Jul 25, 2017 08:35
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all cops are bad
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Jul 25, 2017 08:37
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Realistic police reform is going to involve purging shitheads, because no amount of sensitivity training is going to fix stuff like embedded racism. There has to be real consequences to poo poo like planting evidence and being too trigger happy, and right now there is not. But calling that 'abolishing the police' is not strategic, and in fact counter productive, because you're making the solution to the problem sound more extreme than it really needs to be, or actually is. The abolition of policing as, like, an institution, represents the end of civil society, and everyone kind of gets that.
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Jul 25, 2017 09:26
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Your goal as a political movement is always, always to reach ordinary people and their concerns - the kind that do not pay attention to politics. You need to use simple, easily understood language that matches the 'common sense' meaning, as much as possible. So if you say, 'abolish the police', normal people will take that at face value. They don't have the time to read your political pamphlets, about how nuanced your stance is: you've already lost them by that point. So instead, say stuff like: "Police accountability" "Justice for victims of crooked cops" "'Protect and Serve' not 'License to Kill'" "End Police Brutality" "Cop Demilitarization" Etc etc
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Jul 25, 2017 09:42
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My advice for what it's worth is socialism without leftists signaling to other leftists how left-wing they are. Though that also risks sounding vague and it's a tall order...
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Jul 25, 2017 09:48
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*dog ears perk up*
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Jul 25, 2017 10:54
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The mass internment of poor [typically minority + immigrant] citizens through bullshit legal machinations is a long dark demonstration of bargaining with the white racist capitalist/mercantile structure that has perverted justice in our country since birth. It must be stamped out and rolled back for there to be true justice.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:05
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The police function first- to terrorize and brutalize the poor, second- to enforce property claims, third- to handle magisterial duties, and fourth- investigate actual violent crimes. Almost all of which need to be rebooted from the ground up.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:08
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If actually believe none of that is true, that's fine. But if you are just being spineless and giving up, gently caress off
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Jul 25, 2017 11:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51t1OsPSdBc
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Jul 25, 2017 11:17
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I think they took accusations of tankie gulaging rhetoric too seriously 
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Jul 25, 2017 11:18
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Spending any time in prison is akin to death in polite society, and a massive lifetime burden. It's basically acknowledged as torture and rape. No one thinks that's hosed up? No one feels bad for the dudes rotting in jail for selling weed while brown while you probably live in their seized and remodeled city block?
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Jul 25, 2017 11:19
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abolish polite society
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Jul 25, 2017 11:22
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Yeah but the point is that isn't the anarchist dream of abolishing the justice system, that's just radical reform, which even lots of non lefties think is necessary
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Jul 25, 2017 11:23
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deadgoon posted:abolish polite society Agreedo
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Jul 25, 2017 11:41
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"I'd like to see all these people who say gently caress the police once the worst happens, and they need someone to show up 7 hours later and shrug their shoulders."
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Jul 25, 2017 11:43
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I'd say "democratic control of the police" and not "abolish the police." The police serve necessary functions but they should serve the public and not brutalize it.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:50
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American police in their current form should be entirely abolished and rebuilt along socialist & democratic lines, but they obviously need to exist in some form.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:54
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An errata of probably indefensible thoughts: I rolled my eyes at the tweet. RiotGear said the words were cool, so i read the words. Still found it cringey. Did some self reflection on why. Realized I agree with premises, disagreed with conclusion (more accurately, like some others, decided that it was an utopian ideal). Realized what really was bugging me about it, then, was that they were plainly stating what I subconsciously felt should be coded. So, I made a southern strategy joke, then rudatron comes in and literally advocates for dog whistles. I don't think they're racist dog whistles, at least. otoh how does he know "ordinary" people suffering from regular police violence don't think they should be abolished? Further, why does a plank of a subgroup attempting to get elected to run the workings of an organizing group (not even a political party) need to worry about appealing to nonleftists? Isn't conceeding to opponents before you even get to the negotiating table part of the reason democrats are so terrible? When else do you voice your utopian ideals? Those ideals then guide political action people actually see (ie campaign to end police militarization, etc). poo poo, you don't see the DSA overthrowing the US government to install Socialism, guess their heart isn't actually in it. And I don't necessarily accept that society can't be "civil" without police as a given. The argument reminds me of acting like abolishing capitalism means no money. And is it really that big of a wonder that they advocate abolishing something that doesn't protect nor serve the masses, but capital and the status quo, and actively works to oppress minorities and suppress leftists? tl;dr: deliberalize urself and face to pig bloodshed Minty has issued a correction as of 12:18 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 12:13
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And also we should call them Public Safety Valets
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