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CuddleCryptid posted:Oh yeah I loved stopping the game dead in its tracks to watch an unskippable YouTube music video for 20 minutes. Exactly.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:12
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Oxxidation posted:they've also been into media-mixing from the very first max payne The tech was a productive constraint in that way; had it been made 10 years later it would have been more solidly focused within the engine, and less memorable for it. The ‘00s were the boom period for games which were played in order to unlock cutscenes. From AW on they had live action snippets but as Easter eggs and collectibles, little diversions or lore dumps, and they were diegetic; even in Control the closest you came was the visual flourish of a looped clip of a silhouette superimposed over normal play for the director flashbacks. AW2 is the first time I can recall (though maybe my memory’s bad) where the game stops, leaves diegesis behind, and fully becomes an FMV. Formally, it’s still the same standard game design for narrative action gaming that Remedy sticks to (gameplay -> cutscene -> gameplay -> cutscene) it just takes the unusual step away from rendering in those portions. I think a lot of devs would love to do this, but they assume (not without reason) that gamers approach live action within games expecting ineptitude and camp. Anyway I’d say part of the dissonance in Alan Wake 2 for me is that it’s narratively meta but not formally meta. It calls attention to and plays with the blurring between the stories in its frame, but it never really plays with its frame, the blurring relationship between “game you play” and “film you watch”, or between player and character the player controls. All those things, however they appear to vary, are untroubled. (CONTROL, for all its direct address, gestures toward breaking the fourth wall, but then feints once it becomes clear that “you” is another character in the fiction Jesse just doesn’t know the name of). Personally I love a mindfuck movie but a mindfuck game, something that cheats or provokes me out of the skinner box frame, is more exciting if I’m sitting down to play— IMMORTALITY does this, a game like WHO’S LILA? does also. AW2 by contrast is a mindfuck movie more than a mindfuck game, I’m prompted to move the story forward but passively take it in. For all the meta elements Remedy plays with, and for all their love of what surreality allows, they are too afraid of alienating players to commit to it; if CONTROL was Annihilation with everything explained in lore entries, AW2 is TPTR with explanatory voiceover. Which honestly, seems like a real waste.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:42
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Nvm on the FMV centering stuff I totally forgot they made an Xbox exclusive centrally featuring non-diegetic FMV just before CONTROL, lol.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:45
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I feel like I had the opposite opinion from Basic Chunnel regarding Alan Wake 2: I liked it a lot, I found the story to be pretty fun (its no Signalis but few horror games are), but found that the Saga parts were more interesting than Wake's side. The Dark Place has no enemy variety whatsoever and that really doesn't make for interesting survival horror gameplay.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:47
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Remedy had an entire game that was an attempted mixture of live action TV show and video game. It was also bad because source material of "bad network TV Sci fi drama" wasn't compelling, but this is clearly a direction they've been headed in for some time. You can even point to poo poo like how Alan Wake 1 had end-of-chapter end credits and musical stingers.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:47
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CuddleCryptid posted:Oh yeah I loved stopping the game dead in its tracks to watch an unskippable YouTube music video for 20 minutes that sounds like poo poo because it's looping every 30 seconds to indicate you can move to the next segment. This is the most joyless possible reading of a fun and novel segment
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Nov 4, 2023 21:47
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CuddleCryptid posted:Oh yeah I loved stopping the game dead in its tracks to watch an unskippable YouTube music video for 20 minutes that sounds like poo poo because it's looping every 30 seconds to indicate you can move to the next segment.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:48
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Oxxidation posted:alan wake 2 is a horror game and every great horror game's combat must suck rear end just a little bit Dead Space 2.... Ftw.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:54
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I can only hope that, if they decide to do Dead Space 2 Remake, they add something as great as the knife parrying in RE4 Remake
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Nov 4, 2023 21:57
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The Colonel posted:i'd still argue with the idea sam barlow "rehabilitated" live action fmv, he's a popular dev in the space but the serious live action fmv game space mostly existed before him too also all of Barlow's FMV is diagetic, the games are basically found-footage. this isn't new, like, the most infamous FMV game ever, Night Trap, was like this, but the live action cutscenes in Quantum Break and AW2 are much more in line with "classic" fmv than like, Her Story.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:58
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:This is the most joyless possible reading of a fun and novel segment But it wasn't fun nor novel. If we're talking about games pinning you in place to show you something until it's done then physically lifting a wall to allow you to progress to another segment that does the same then there's a good number of Doom wads I could introduce you to. It was a fun *video* but the segment itself as a game was really boring, and I don't know why they didn't either make it more dynamic or just do a normal FMV video.
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Nov 4, 2023 22:18
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actually it ruled
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Nov 4, 2023 22:19
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I've beaten like 6 parts as Alan and I'm close to the end of the 3rd on Saga and so far I'm loving AW2. The combat is samey, but it's also very much not the focus, and in an hour or more of playing chapter 3 of Saga I fought like 5 enemies that were actually needed for progress? While the map is somewhat small, it's very intricately designed, so each corner is interesting to explore, and those rare moments that aren't (I mean, you can't really design a forest to be always unique) look good and provide enough collectibles. I really like the interactions and the characters, but I can't say the story is very gripping, however. I don't find it interesting to ask myself who killed Nightingale and now that I've gotten some answers to who the members of the cult might be it's like "yeah ok". It's also really hard to connect with Alan's side of the story since none of it is real. I assume his wife's tapes are, but the whole cult in the hotel, for example? We're still in the black lodge type place, so why should I care? I'm playing more for visuals and the game, as the story doesn't provide enough incentive on its own. That said, it's still one of my favorite games this year. First I typed "horror" before "games", but honestly, not really? It's a pretty light horror and I'd say it has more comedic tone.
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Nov 4, 2023 22:23
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CuddleCryptid posted:But it wasn't fun nor novel. If we're talking about games pinning you in place to show you something until it's done then physically lifting a wall to allow you to progress to another segment that does the same then there's a good number of Doom wads I could introduce you to. It was a fun *video* but the segment itself as a game was really boring, and I don't know why they didn't either make it more dynamic or just do a normal FMV video. It was fun and novel and this isn't an uncommon opinion. Games are multimedia experiences, you don't have to be "playing" them at all times, sometimes it rules to just sit back and soak something in while navigating the three dimensional space it's happening in. The fact that you get to participate even through the slightest bit of control over the camera and navigation is enough to elevate something that wouldn't work as well if it was a more static experience. So many games would have been a million times better if they were able to be like Alan Wake 2, with a core gameplay loop massively de-emphasized. The constant derision of "walking simulators" and poo poo has made the medium so loving boring because everything needs to have some gameplay reason to exist. Bring back more poo poo like The Dark Eye and Bad Day on the Midway.
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Nov 4, 2023 22:23
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Night Trap 2!!!
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Nov 4, 2023 22:26
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:It was fun and novel and this isn't an uncommon opinion. Games are multimedia experiences, you don't have to be "playing" them at all times, sometimes it rules to just sit back and soak something in while navigating the three dimensional space it's happening in. The fact that you get to participate even through the slightest bit of control over the camera and navigation is enough to elevate something that wouldn't work as well if it was a more static experience. I fully don't understand what you mean here because the problem isn't that they put video in, it's that they put it in during a slow and plodding walking scene and tried to act like it was a high energy hype scene. Good scenes link the game with the movies and music. Most music based games are like this, but adventure games are similar. When you're racing down a sand dune as the music swells with the emotional depth of falling into darkness in Journey or climbing towards a thematic crescendo in something like Sagebrush you're using the music and sometimes video to set tone and convey plot. Even Alan Wake 1 did this, where it linked the Children of the Elder Gods song with a combat escalation or threading the Lady of the Light song into the background of exploring the farmhouse. The issue here isn't that they mixed video and gameplay, it's that the gameplay doesn't actually add anything to it and it detracts from the video by breaking it up as you try and feel along the walls to find where you're supposed to be going. I really don't think that being able to look at one of three screens in a box around you really elevates it enough to justify looping a bridge over and over while you wander aimlessly. I mean it's fine if people got some sort of amazing satisfaction out of it but I personally thought Remedy could have done a lot better. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 22:34
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My argument is that you don't have to do that poo poo, you don't HAVE to do anything, they did what they decided would work best and it seems to have succeeded because people have been greatly enjoying it - so clearly the more passive route worked, and it's probably because it let people focus on the actors and their ridiculous, goofy performances instead.
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Nov 4, 2023 22:38
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:My argument is that you don't have to do that poo poo, you don't HAVE to do anything, they did what they decided would work best and it seems to have succeeded because people have been greatly enjoying it - so clearly the more passive route worked, and it's probably because it let people focus on the actors and their ridiculous, goofy performances instead. Which is fine, maybe i personally just got turned around in the levels more than others but I had several points where I had to fall out of the scene to go "where the gently caress is the ladder to the next area", so watching the videos meant watching the same dancing loop over and over while I tried to find the next area. I just gave up and quit the game in the middle of the segment last night because I got to the point with the second light drop off point and circled the level 15 times trying to find a light to steal before just giving up, at which point I was far beyond tired of the video. If it had just been a cutscene or something that flowed better overall then I would have liked it a lot more. When you have segments like this in walking sims they tend to be pretty linear to try and avoid people getting turned around for that exact reason. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 22:43
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CuddleCryptid posted:Which is fine, maybe i personally just got turned around in the levels more than others but I had several points where I had to fall out of the scene to go "where the gently caress is the ladder to the next area", so watching the videos meant watching the same dancing loop over and over while I tried to find the next area. I just gave up and quit the game in the middle of the segment last night because I got to the point with the second light drop off point and circled the level 15 times trying to find a light to steal before just giving up, at which point I was far beyond tired of the video. If it had just been a cutscene or something that flowed better overall then I would have liked it a lot more. When you have segments like this in walking sims they tend to be pretty linear to try and avoid people getting turned around for that exact reason. Filtered
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Nov 4, 2023 22:51
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The first parts of the sequence being more passive meant that finding the flare gun and blasting through Taken with it was more hype.
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Nov 4, 2023 22:57
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Contradiction> Immortality
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Nov 5, 2023 02:10
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:My argument is that you don't have to do that poo poo, you don't HAVE to do anything, they did what they decided would work best and it seems to have succeeded because people have been greatly enjoying it - so clearly the more passive route worked, and it's probably because it let people focus on the actors and their ridiculous, goofy performances instead. Yeah I absolutely just hung around to watch the videos until I was sure that they were looping and I wasn't going to see anything new. Unrelated to AW2, is there a good resident evil style rogue like?
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Nov 5, 2023 02:16
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I liked the movies in immortality and the backstage scenes but the hidden story was a mess that I didn't pay attention to at all.
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Nov 5, 2023 04:09
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Len posted:Unrelated to AW2, is there a good resident evil style rogue like? mercenaries mode
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Nov 5, 2023 04:10
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Buck Wildman posted:mercenaries mode Nah in the style of the original pre-4 games
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Nov 5, 2023 04:33
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Pyramid Head origin story will 1000% be Harry Mason to set up Bloober's SH1 or SH3 remake.Disposable Scud posted:Contradiction> Immortality Enemabag Jones fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 04:40
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Oh god, I just realized Bloober will probably hide easter eggs/references to their other games such that we're going to get Game Theory poo poo about a shared universe.
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Nov 5, 2023 04:44
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Disposable Scud posted:Contradiction> Immortality Comparing these two games because they're FMV games is like comparing god of war and outer wilds, they're absolutely nothing alike.
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Nov 5, 2023 04:50
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Discendo Vox posted:Oh god, I just realized Bloober will probably hide easter eggs/references to their other games such that we're going to get Game Theory poo poo about a shared universe.
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Nov 5, 2023 04:59
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Len posted:Nah in the style of the original pre-4 games You might try TELEGLITCH, though.
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Nov 5, 2023 05:14
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STATE OF DECAY 2 at a high difficulty might kind of sort of fit that bill but it’s obviously not the haunted house format. If you’re fiending for Mr X chase / evasion stuff specifically it’s worth playing the DLCs for Alien: Isolation, which are straight to the point.
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Nov 5, 2023 05:19
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Enemabag Jones posted:Pyramid Head origin story will 1000% be Harry Mason to set up Bloober's SH1 or SH3 remake. I'm going to go with something even lamer and they'll reference Homecoming, with its ending of the main character becoming a pyramidhead.
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Nov 5, 2023 07:40
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Basic Chunnel posted:That’d be a tall order. Classic RE is all about resource conservation and control, trying to keep players in a state of precarity without tipping the balance such that things actually run out and progress becomes impossible. This is next to impossible to achieve well in any procgen system. Amnesia: Bunker and its a very good game, if a little hard at first. It has both preset and random modes. Definitely would recommend playing it on normal first though. WaltherFeng fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 07:54
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Enemabag Jones posted:The Medium is the obvious choice but it would be really funny to see anyone try to remember the events or characters of Layers of Fear, Blair Witch, et al. They're going to reuse paintings from Layers of Fear, 100%.
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Nov 5, 2023 08:07
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I'll still maintain that Observer was pretty drat good.
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Nov 5, 2023 08:21
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My money's on 'Pyramid Head is literally the actual physical James Sunderland in a time loop", because that's the funniest/stupidest answer I can think of.
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Nov 5, 2023 08:53
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girl dick energy posted:My money's on 'Pyramid Head is literally the actual physical James Sunderland in a time loop", because that's the funniest/stupidest answer I can think of. Pyramid Head's helmet is knocked off during the final battle, revealing Alex Shepherd's face. SH2 was a sequel to Homecoming aaaaaaaaaallllllllll along.
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Nov 5, 2023 10:01
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veni veni veni posted:I'll still maintain that Observer was pretty drat good. It was and I've enjoyed most of their other games to a greater or lesser extent so it's always funny that people treat them like the anti-christ here lol That said the SH2 remake is still probably going to be bad just because the original was such a landmark game that any changes can only be for the worse.
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Nov 5, 2023 10:26
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I'd be really hard pressed to pin down a bad thing Rutger Hauer's ever been involved in and I've seen Blind Fury multiple times. Observer is fine. Definitely my favorite Bloober joint, with Blair Witch kicking up second only because Bullet's a real good boy.
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Nov 5, 2023 10:51
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Bloober are aight and they've just become a studio that's been bandwagon hated on for whatever reason. If a modern studio was going to remake Silent Hill 2 they're a perfectly fine choice.
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Nov 5, 2023 10:55
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