Mithranderp posted:

I...is this a reference I'm not getting? D:

tithin posted:

Worm Mafia game.

Asphyxious posted:

Like "we have two known scum, so lets lynch Tirade".

Tirade posted:

I swear I could feel my synapses fusing together in disbelief as vote after vote started to pour in for me in that game.

Tirade posted:

I swear I could feel my synapses fusing together in disbelief as vote after vote started to pour in for me in that game.

tithin posted:

If it helps any, its looking likely that there'll be another Worm Mafia game, being chaired by Milky with me to assist with Design.

Anidav posted:

I dunno, I felt I suffered a lot in that Worm game because I didn't know the source at all.

Splode posted:

Metas happen. It's an unavoidable fact of how games work. If people play a game enough, a metagame will develop. You can't stop it, you can only introduce various systems to attempt to shape the meta the way you want to. Personality meta is not really avoidable in any game with a small player base. If you know that when you play Age of Empires II with Mark he ALWAYS plays persians and goes straight for elephants, you're going to build a counter to elephants every game you play with Mark, before you even see his massive army of elephants.

tithin posted:

If it helps any, its looking likely that there'll be another Worm Mafia game, being chaired by Milky with me to assist with Design.

Milky Moor posted:

Anyways, like I've said before, Auspol towns suffer from being so hostile, argumentative and generally forgetful. I'm going to go so far as to say that, due to this, scum teams hold a significant advantage in most Auspol games and that there needs to be an element of pro-town bias in the setup to counteract that. I've said before that the best thing a town can do is stay calm and constructive - this prevents easy lynchs except on the basis of policy, lying or bad arguments and it forces the scum to come to the table. If you lynch people who aren't posting enough or who are just popping in to vote, then the scum must engage and they're more likely to slip up if they're forced to argue their points.

As much as people like to say that it's okay to play Mafia how you like (eg: belljar), I'm going to fundamentally disagree. Every single game in human history is predicated on the idea that both sides are playing to win. A town player popping in to just vote or to vote on the basis of 'what's funny' isn't playing to win. A scum team who buses their scum partners for no real reason isn't playing to win. Someone who votes for themselves, as town, isn't playing to win. Encouraging an atmosphere of 'this sucks, I want it to be over' isn't playing to win. This, of course, gets altered in games with new or strange roles. You can bend these rules, sure, but this is something that really hurt the town this game.

Similarly, I'm going to disagree that there shouldn't be a meta. Metagaming is natural. The problem is Auspol towns metagame at the expense of the current game. It's normal for there to be good players and bad players. It's normal for players to have certain tells. It's normal for players to argue for lynches based on the policy that a player can be a detriment even if they're town. Do I like being known as a shifty guy who is 'probably' running some sort of extravagant WIFOM plan? Not really. Is it better or worse than being known as generally disruptive like Anidav? That's neither here or there.

As far as the 'we have lives' argument goes, yeah, unfortunately there's no real way to regulate that. Auspolfia is really made for quick games. I've seen games where days last a week and people were getting subbed in before the first night action. That's the other extreme and, honestly, is just as bad. I think that twenty four hours is a good time but players also need to have a certain understanding that posting over and over again isn't necessary. This isn't a chatroom. Posts can be read at a later date. Say your piece, maybe rebuff a few arguments, then sit back.

Another minor thing is, like, don't be afraid to roleclaim. People like to say it's a bad idea, but given that there's usually heaps of night roles running around, it might be in your best interest. More information helps the town.

Would I like seeing more people playing? Sure. But I also like the close-knit group we have because of the metagame, too. We just can't afford to let it drive people away or force us into making sub-optimal decisions.

Not sure what else to add. I'd suggest that maybe people read the articles on mafia theory on the mafiascum wiki if you're interested in improving the state of Auspol games?

Milky Moor posted:

Other than that, the work that TOML and SK put into this game is pretty phenomenal.

Asphyxious posted:

Also Splode and Fruity as great a "scum play" as panning me while genuinely distressed is, you're both a pair of loving grubs

Those On My Left posted:

So, I'm sorry that people thought there were too many new roles. That's kind of what we were going for. Obviously it makes it overwhelming for Town but we tried to offset that by giving you guys mechanics that affected you positively. It was also hard to anticipate the sheer loving insanity to which Town would sink.

I feel like plenty of the Town insanity came about not because of the new roles, but because of Scum's clever and lucky use of the Bus Driver. Town barely contemplated the possibility of a scum Bus Driver (which is neither a new invention nor a bizarre rarity), and so were completely and utterly bamboozled by successful but ineffective doctor actions, and successful but misleading cop actions. I honestly feel like if this game hadn't had the Bus Driver there would be a lot fewer complaints about the wacky new roles.

Anyway, hopefully you still got something out of it. Tithin, thanks for suggesting adding some of these roles to the Wiki. I am happy for someone else to do that if they feel like it.

Milky Moor posted:

As for the new role thing?

Well, every single Mafia role that people use was designed by someone at some point. Originally there were no night actions, no cop, no doctor, no anything. The game is constantly evolving.

bell jar posted:

if i played the game with a goal to win, i would be unhappy most of the time

Splode posted:

That's true, but this many new roles at once makes life difficult.

bell jar posted:

you're absolutely right milky, i don't play to win. i couldn't give a poo poo if town or scum win, that's not important to me. enjoying the game is important to me, and this game was pretty enjoyable for me!

i like watching anidav melt down literally every game because nobody takes him as seriously as he takes himself, i like the metagame and watching people interact with themselves, i like being an element that knocks the boring data collating people out of their groove. its fun and makes the game better imo

bell jar posted:

Seagull posted:

play to chill

Asphyxious posted:

My attitudes more in line with bell jar, don't really care about winning, just want to see if I can spot liars and pat myself on the back.

Asphyxious posted:

SKY COQ posted:

You did what

SKY COQ posted:

Thank you TOML and SK for an awesome game and well done scum for dominating it.

Sulla-Marius 88 posted:

Thank you TOML and Small Keating for running the game