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Vintersorg posted:It's why the movie brings up Batman being scared as gently caress of him and the power he wields. In the form of very effective nightmare sequences. A great little detail in the big one, and it shows how messed up Bruce's state of mind is, is that he's using the same kind of handgun, the Colt M1911, that killed his parents in that sequence. Everything's gone wrong for Bruce in that whole sequence. All his fears are represented there.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:00
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Jimbot posted:In the form of very effective nightmare sequences. A great little detail in the big one, and it shows how messed up Bruce's state of mind is, is that he's using the same kind of handgun, the Colt M1911, that killed his parents in that sequence. Everything's gone wrong for Bruce in that whole sequence. All his fears are represented there. Man I forgot the dream sequences. In a better movie, those would have been the worst part of the movie.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:02
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Steve2911 posted:If I was Superman I'd kill the gently caress out of everyone. 
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Apr 4, 2016 19:15
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Kid Miracleman is pretty goony, I guess.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:23
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This is the kind of image the fools against Superman at the capital would've made, a stunning denouncement of that mentality. A Good Picture. Vintersorg posted:It's why the movie brings up Batman being scared as gently caress of him and the power he wields. They bring up Batman being scared of Superman because he's a paranoid nutcase who is ultimately redeemed by realizing that there's no reason to be scared of Superman. He's the character that represents what everyone else understands: there's no need to fear Superman. He's Superman. Sazabi posted:PA Kent is left to die so 3 hillbilly's won't see Clark use his power. Hell PA at one point tells Clark to LET PEOPLE DIE to protect his identity. You clearly misunderstood the point of Pa Kent sacrificing himself. He knew that revealing himself would expose him to a lot of deluded, crazy people who'd fear him for bring different, even if he does nothing but good. He says this to a dude who isn't Superman yet, a guy who smashed a dudes truck (a scene that if you weren't supporting, what is wrong with you.) quote:Come up with all the counter examples you want but ultimately trust is exactly that. Yes, and part and parcel of Superman is that you can trust him.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:31
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drat it's almost like this dude is a weirdo freak who actually enjoys being in an environment where everyone hates him and thinks he's a retarded idiot and gets off on the abuse
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Apr 4, 2016 19:45
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hes right though
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Apr 4, 2016 19:57
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Skip My Posts posted:drat it's almost like this dude is a weirdo freak who actually enjoys being in an environment where everyone hates him and thinks he's a retarded idiot and gets off on the abuse Read what he actually posts and don't be a dick. He's obviously being normal here.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:58
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I thought Skip My Posts was talking about Superman still.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:59
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quote:This is the kind of image the fools against Superman at the capital would've made, a stunning denouncement of that mentality. A Good Picture. Thats a really lovely answer to give to the question asked by the picture. Do you believe the Superman in that picture is dangerous to the kids in that picture?
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Apr 4, 2016 20:06
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Like all those idiots went to film school so who cares but only one of them is a certified, literal honk honk slide whistle clown and that is incredible
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Apr 4, 2016 20:13
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MonsieurChoc posted:That's a really stupid opinion to have. Setting aside whether the movie was actually good or not, Superman is a fictional character. He can be whatever the author wants him to be. There is no Platonic Ideal of Superman every author must emulate. when you're writing something that includes an already existing character its generally a good idea to follow the established characterization. superman is kind of dumb because his character is literally being The Best Guy but... that's the thing that makes superman superman. the movie challenges fundamental aspects of his character which is not a bad thing but when you do something like that it should probably be the main focus. i think people are annoyed that they did that in a movie with a ton of other poo poo going on and its just taken for what it is e: its like making a justice league movie and including batman, but this batman's parents are still alive. i mean yeah you can make a batman without that but you have limited screen time in a movie about a bunch of other poo poo, why change something that begs for more detail in a movie that won't have much? nigga crab pollock fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 20:15
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Calaveron posted:Like all those idiots went to film school so who cares but only one of them is a certified, literal honk honk slide whistle clown and that is incredible http://youtu.be/CJP8J84vzTA
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Apr 4, 2016 20:22
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scary ghost dog posted:hes right though i don't think its even possible to be right in this argument
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Apr 4, 2016 20:24
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nigga crab pollock posted:when you're writing something that includes an already existing character its generally a good idea to follow the established characterization. superman is kind of dumb because his character is literally being The Best Guy but... that's the thing that makes superman superman. the movie challenges fundamental aspects of his character which is not a bad thing but when you do something like that it should probably be the main focus. what fundamental aspects of supermans character are questioned in bvs? that he cant die? that hes never wrong? because both of those are extremely untrue
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Apr 4, 2016 20:26
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scary ghost dog posted:what fundamental aspects of supermans character are questioned in bvs? that he cant die? that hes never wrong? because both of those are extremely untrue unambiguously being a paragon of truth and justice e: thats not really the thing im trying to argue what i'm saying is that it's a movie about two superheroes with two villians, trying to deviate from what people expect is probably not the best plan when you have to devote screen time to lampshading rather than punchy action explosions nigga crab pollock fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 20:45
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nigga crab pollock posted:unambiguously being a paragon of truth and justice honestly it seems like every complaint about the movie in here is that superman and batman are all wrong, which is just a completely retarded criticism
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Apr 4, 2016 20:52
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yeah why would anyone think the characters of batman and superman were important in this movie. what could have given them that idea
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Apr 4, 2016 20:55
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MonsieurChoc posted:That's a really stupid opinion to have. Setting aside whether the movie was actually good or not, Superman is a fictional character. He can be whatever the author wants him to be. There is no Platonic Ideal of Superman every author must emulate. While I'm not saying everyone has to write Superman the same, there is very much a Platonic Ideal of the character:  I'm not really sure how you could argue anything is more definitively Superman than that 12 issue arc.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:55
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lfield posted:yeah why would anyone think the characters of batman and superman were important in this movie. what could have given them that idea they were important in bvs, and they were also established in bvs. its the mandarin thing times a million
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Apr 4, 2016 21:00
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MisterBibs posted:He says this to a dude who isn't Superman yet, a guy who smashed a dudes truck (a scene that if you weren't supporting, what is wrong with you.) It's a lovely thing to do and it makes him seem like a bully. By the end of Man Of Steel, that initial impression wasn't changed enough to convince me that he had actually become the sort of Superman you claim he became. In retrospect, I don't really think that's Snyder's fault, Cavill just doesn't change the way he plays the character enough to convey that he's matured as a person. He doesn't convey the sense of compassion that would make him a Superman you can trust. Snyder does deserve some blame for not getting that performance out of him, but Cavill just doesn't work as Superman.
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Apr 4, 2016 21:49
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We're taught from a very young age to trust and fear adults. Make decisions based on what we believe the intent is. We're not taught that all adults are in inherently good. That's idiotic. Heck, let's even take it to the fictional world. Just because someone is the main character, doesn't mean we're supposed to root for them. Look at Always Sunny, those people are the worst (the best tho) and people can figure out quick that they are the bad guys. Basically, we're given the tools to discern between something we trust, and something we don't using the evidence at hand. Why didn't anyone teach you that mr bibbs. why
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Apr 4, 2016 21:52
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I Before E posted:It's a lovely thing to do and it makes him seem like a bully. By the end of Man Of Steel, that initial impression wasn't changed enough to convince me that he had actually become the sort of Superman you claim he became. In retrospect, I don't really think that's Snyder's fault, Cavill just doesn't change the way he plays the character enough to convey that he's matured as a person. He doesn't convey the sense of compassion that would make him a Superman you can trust. Snyder does deserve some blame for not getting that performance out of him, but Cavill just doesn't work as Superman. The guy he did it to was assaulting a woman. No one else was standing up to that guy's gross behavior.
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Apr 4, 2016 22:02
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Jimbot posted:The guy he did it to was assaulting a woman. No one else was standing up to that guy's gross behavior. Yeah but there are better ways to stand up to gross behaviour than massive property damage (which would have probably had very little lasting effect on the nasty guy).
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Apr 4, 2016 22:17
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Steve2911 posted:If I was Superman I'd kill the gently caress out of everyone. If I was Superman I'd use Super-hypnosis to make people who defend BvS stop posting in my thread.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:12
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The only thing I trust Cavill Superman to do is level half a city in a fight.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:23
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Neurolimal posted:Thats a really lovely answer to give to the question asked by the picture. Its the only acceptable answer, though. The only question that picture asks is "How quickly would that person need to be chucked into Arkham if they legitimately see Superman like that?" I Before E posted:It's a lovely thing to do and it makes him seem like a bully. If you're upset over what happens to a dude who assaults a lady, I don't know what to tell you. It's a scene that reminds you of what Superman is. He wouldn't do that unless you deserved it. Neurolimal posted:By the end of Man Of Steel, that initial impression wasn't changed enough to convince me that he had actually become the sort of Superman you claim he became. He totally did, though. The only question is did you accept that, or go down a cinematic gently caress You Dad path and take the opposite of the presented message?
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Apr 4, 2016 23:33
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The question I posed is, "Would you trust that Superman just because he looks like Superman, despite the context of the image."
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Apr 4, 2016 23:36
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CelticPredator posted:The question I posed is, "Would you trust that Superman just because he looks like Superman, despite the context of the image." shhhh shhhhhh shhhhh don't talk, be quiet, he doesn't understand shhhhhh
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Apr 4, 2016 23:48
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CelticPredator posted:The question I posed is, "Would you trust that Superman just because he looks like Superman, despite the context of the image." It depends on if it's Superman or not; context is important. Given that it's the kind of thing
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Apr 4, 2016 23:48
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MisterBibs posted:It depends on if it's Superman or not; context is important. Given that it's the kind of thing does the person in that image look like superman is the man who looks like superman to be trusted next to those kids put yourself into the image, and tell us if you would trust that person
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Apr 4, 2016 23:52
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I like how you're framing my weird photoshop into the context of the film, which I am not in. I'm only pointing out how weird, and dangerous your point is. You shouldn't inherently trust anyone.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:53
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MisterBibs posted:If you're upset over what happens to a dude who assaults a lady, I don't know what to tell you. It's a scene that reminds you of what Superman is. He wouldn't do that unless you deserved it. It's been a while since I saw the movie so I'll take your word that that's what happened in the scene, it's been a while since I watched it, but how would destroying that guy's car in any way change how he treats women? It's just petty retribution that doesn't actually help anybody, and just plays as Superman picking on someone weaker, just like the guy in question. Also it's a little weak to say that this is before Superman is really Superman and then say that it's actually exactly what Superman is supposed to be. Those two claims kind of contradict each other.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:59
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making that guy unhappy probably resulted in him hurting women more rather than less
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Apr 5, 2016 00:01
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The next best of the worst cannot come soon enough, good lord.
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Apr 5, 2016 01:38
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Neurolimal posted:does the person in that image look like superman I'd trust that person, if for no other reason than having an edited picture like that trying to make me think the person is Not Trustworthy is evidence that the dude is Actually Trustworthy, and that the picture's creator is cray-cray. When you see some guy who edits together a picture of some satanic-looking dudes injecting children with vials called "BABBY DNA", I don't go "wow, scientists really have this vaccine thing wrong!". I say "Wow, these anti-science folks are crazy." the picture posted can only be looked at through that prism. I Before E posted:Also it's a little weak to say that this is before Superman is really Superman and then say that it's actually exactly what Superman is supposed to be. Those two claims kind of contradict each other. You're right, of course, I wasn't clear. If Superman is really Superman, the scene at the bar (who gives a rat's rear end if it changes the assaulter's mind) shows that Clark is already partially Superman.
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Apr 5, 2016 01:58
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CelticPredator posted:I like how you're framing my weird photoshop into the context of the film, which I am not in. what about batman
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Apr 5, 2016 02:10
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MisterBibs posted:
Thanks for responding, I appreciate it. I understood why Pa Kent was willing to die to protect his son. What really bothers me about that scene is how easily Clark was convinced. Via subtle hand wave and slight head nod. The Paragon of justice and unquestionable morally right person that Superman is supposed to be wouldn't and shouldn't let someone die(especially a family member) to protect himself from whatever ostracized backlash he would receive because of it. Self sacrifice is a quality Pa displays with conviction in this scene. While Clark displays what a passive willingness to do what others tell him to do without argument, that's not a hero I can trust. As for the trucker scene, I was totally rooting for Clark to gently caress them up in a one sided fight like one punch man. And I acknowledge that I am just blood thirsty and the correct rational superhero like response would be to not murder the truck-stop stereotypes. And what Clark did seemed petty and vindictive, two qualities I don't associate with trust and hero. Trust is one of the hardest things to earn because you only have to gently caress up once to lose it. And writing about this actually makes me appreciate Superman a little more because he isn't a perfect boy scout by choice. He understands that he is so loving impossibly strong that he needs to maintain an exemplary image in order to prevent the earth from turning against him. The stress of always having to do your best and be the best because the slightest slip up opens that question of "he's too strong to be left alone." God if only someone made a movie about this, only good and not crap. It's not that this superman hasn't done a lot of good like save the earth from his own kind and the rescuing of those oil rig workers, But he's also done somethings to make us not trust him. Like imagine you were dating someone, who you believed you could trust completely because they've given you no reason not to. They never lied, acted suspicious, did anything you were uncomfortable with. Then one day you come home to find a mens shirt on the couch. She says her brother was over and he spilled whine on his shirt so she gave him one of yours and was going to wash his later. But Megan doesn't have a brother and you don't see any wine stain, later when she was asleep you look in the recycling and don't find any wine bottles, you check the dishwasher and there aren't any wine glasses. Do you still trust her 100% or do you hire an old roommate to spy on her. The point is it doesn't matter how many people MoS superman saves if he gives us just one reason not to trust him then he can't be trusted. And if I had two points then the second would be to never date women whose names start with Megan, and end with cheating bitch.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:44
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MisterBibs posted:
Just rewatched the scene in question, and the real problem is that it happens offscreen, where the guy can't see it. That makes it really passive aggressive, when he could have gone Road House on him directly or something and the point would still have been made. The scene would still have been about violent retribution, which doesn't sit too well with me, but I'm taking that as a given. He's not taking responsibility for his actions, and that's what really rankles me.
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Apr 5, 2016 03:21
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nigga crab pollock posted:when you're writing something that includes an already existing character its generally a good idea to follow the established characterization. superman is kind of dumb because his character is literally being The Best Guy but... that's the thing that makes superman superman. the movie challenges fundamental aspects of his character which is not a bad thing but when you do something like that it should probably be the main focus. There have already been a poo poo-ton different versions of superman.
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Apr 5, 2016 06:58
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