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Paramemetic posted:It's only a death sentence in as much as if she has children then she'll die as those children grow up. She's still like what, 17? Performing a lobotomy because someone might later die from brain cancer is a bit goofy. The death sentence was being born. Fundamentally changing someone's personality so that they die more conventionally when there is no other reason than you don't want them to die if they have children they haven't had yet is a weird thing. 
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Jul 4, 2015 21:48
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Itzena posted:If Tony was worried about Annie getting teen pregnant, he could have just made an appointment for one of those subdermal contraceptive implants. When you look at the etheric surgery and secrecy and satellite surgery and special housing, you gotta wonder why Tony didn't just do a hysterectomy and call it good.
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Jul 5, 2015 00:21
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Maybe because he wants her to be able to have a child someday, if she so chooses?
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Jul 5, 2015 00:30
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Fister Roboto posted:The bone surgery thing might have been him, but I don't think that's an open and shut case.
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Jul 5, 2015 00:36
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JT Jag posted:Your honor, I understand that a gun with my client's fingerprints was found in a gutter near the scene, and the bullet in the victim matches the gun, and when my client was arrested later that day he was found to have gunpowder residue on his clothing, and that he stated his intent to harm the victim to several acquaintances in the week beforehand, and someone claims to have witnessed him do it. But this isn't an open and shut case. This post is like a tiger lily in that neither are good analogies for that chapter. e:Ofc if in future it turns out a tiger lily is synonymous with this chapter please replace it in the above comment with something more fitting
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Jul 5, 2015 00:45
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JT Jag posted:Your honor, I understand that a gun with my client's fingerprints was found in a gutter near the scene, and the bullet in the victim matches the gun, and when my client was arrested later that day he was found to have gunpowder residue on his clothing, and that he stated his intent to harm the victim to several acquaintances in the week beforehand, and someone claims to have witnessed him do it. But this isn't an open and shut case. I'm sorry but you're an idiot if you think this is even remotely similar. It takes place in a crazy dreamscape for god's sake.
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Jul 5, 2015 00:47
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Dienes posted:When you look at the etheric surgery and secrecy and satellite surgery and special housing, you gotta wonder why Tony didn't just do a hysterectomy and call it good. Alternatively, one track mind. A hysterectomy wouldn't have stopped Surma from dying when Annie was already born.
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Jul 5, 2015 02:08
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Fister Roboto posted:
Anthony did it. Zimmy who is highly in-tune with the ether was able to identify him and stopped the procedure by doing the ether equivalent of punching him in the face. Anthony's battle damage could have come from something else, and it's possible the bone spears could have been coming from the sky not because of the satelite her father controls but for some other reason, and maybe he was asking for surgical equipment from Donnie for an unrelated reason but the Zimmy thing is hard to deny. We saw that whole thing from her point of view after all, so it's not likely a lie. There are other bits you can argue are less certain for sure, but it's pretty clear cut that Anthony was the one behind the surgery.
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Jul 5, 2015 02:26
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Fister Roboto posted:Maybe because he wants her to be able to have a child someday, if she so chooses? Makes sense. He's been a big proponent of her freedom thus far.
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Jul 5, 2015 02:38
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JuniperCake posted:Anthony did it. Zimmy who is highly in-tune with the ether was able to identify him and stopped the procedure by doing the ether equivalent of punching him in the face. Anthony's battle damage could have come from something else, and it's possible the bone spears could have been coming from the sky not because of the satelite her father controls but for some other reason, and maybe he was asking for surgical equipment from Donnie for an unrelated reason but the Zimmy thing is hard to deny. We saw that whole thing from her point of view after all, so it's not likely a lie. On the other hand, it could just as easily be some manifestation of her subconscience taking the form of her father. Zimmy saw a bunch of people in her mind, like Jack and Jones. Were they also in there loving around with her mind?
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Jul 5, 2015 06:32
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Fister Roboto posted:On the other hand, it could just as easily be some manifestation of her subconscience taking the form of her father.
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Jul 5, 2015 06:42
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maswastaken posted:Her father does not have the form of giant bone columns digging into her soul. Yes, but that's not really helping the case that it definitely was him either.
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Jul 5, 2015 06:47
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Wrong thread.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:53
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Considering that Anthony's bone hand got blasted and now Anthony is missing a hand and in real life, that Anthony not being real is pretty far fetched. Also, punched in the face in the etherovision and now his face is hosed up. Also, that etheric surgery took place directly after Antimony delivered surgery supplies to Anthony after being out of contact for 2 years.
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Jul 5, 2015 07:53
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But then whatever got punched in the phase transformed into Jack so does that mean that Jack is Tony? I don't know. I'm not going to claim that my interpretation of things is the one and only one correct interpretation. But it just doesn't add up for me. On one hand, he can apparently perform aether surgery by satellite. On the other hand, he's completely clueless about what's going on with Renard, and he seems to be the most mundane, non-magical person in the comic.
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Jul 5, 2015 08:10
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Fister Roboto posted:On the other hand, it could just as easily be some manifestation of her subconscience taking the form of her father. Zimmy saw a bunch of people in her mind, like Jack and Jones. Were they also in there loving around with her mind? That apparations are different. Zimmy starts lucid, having just left gamma's care and is conversing with Kat who is sitting next to her while she is delving through Annie's thoughts. Thats when the whole exchange between her and Anthony occurs and she does the whole here's a present from your daughter bit. Note if you are stickler, she is able to tell Kat that her dad is involved at this time as well. She even says, I'm going to try to stop what he's doing. When things go crazy and she says to get gamma notice how she is unable to interact with Kat at that point but before she could. And notice that she never addresses Jack cause she knows he's fake, instead she complains about not wanting to know about Annie's boyfriends, etc etc. The same comment she made in regards to Jones and the elf guy. What got punched didn't turn into anything or at least it didn't look like that to me, I think Nobody Jack just appeared behind her. When she did the punch thing she is shown flying up into the air and not something in the room. As far as being clueless about renard I'd say thats not his area of expertise, contracts and dolls or whatever is involved. Keep in mind this is Anthony, he has probably spent most of his waking hours on the fire elemental problem ever since Surma got pregnant most likely. Just because you are an expert in one area doesn't make you an expert in everything. It wouldn't surprise me that "fixing" this is probably his single driving obsession or pretty high on the list anyways. How much does he really care about Renard? He wanted to remove him because he doesn't trust him but that might just be the extent of it. JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 08:23
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm not going to claim that my interpretation of things is the one and only one correct interpretation. e: not making fun of you. Splicer fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 09:02
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Madrox posted:For a comic nerd comparison, let's say Earth-6548421 Reed Richards loses Sue, and the same condition will kill Valeria in the future. You're gonna end up with one of those dark, scary-obsessed Reeds, with a problem he must solve at all costs. Nobody wants that. I don't think Anthony Carver is anywhere near as bad as most Reeds. Remember, canonically, primary Marvel universe Reed is the least dickish possible Reed Richards in existence, and he does things like take bribes from pharmaceutical companies to not release his cure for cancer. Anthony may be an emotionless bastard, but he's not that bad. (It probably doesn't help my view of Reed that I rather sympathize with Doctor Doom and think the world actually would be better off with him in charge, even if his methods are somewhat disagreeable...) Keiya fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 15:42
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I'm still expecting Tony not to be a baddie or at the very worst quite misguided. There is something kind of funny though assuming the Zimmy chapter is fairly literal about him making contact with his daughter for the first time in years solely so she will send him the very things he needs to attack her through the aether.
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Jul 5, 2015 15:57
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Splicer posted:I would genuinely like to hear a chapter by chapter interpretation of this comic from your perspective. 100% serious post. Same for YF. I mean I think you're both completely wrong in every possible context other than the most liberal interpretation of death of the author but I'd love a more complete view of your interpretation of the comic so far. EmmyOk posted:I'm still expecting Tony not to be a baddie or at the very worst quite misguided. This is basically it. I think people are really eager to latch on to an actual villain in this comic, so they start grasping at every villainous straw they can, and I think it gets a little out of control. Like posts like this: Dienes posted:When you look at the etheric surgery and secrecy and satellite surgery and special housing, you gotta wonder why Tony didn't just do a hysterectomy and call it good. Seriously what the gently caress?
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Jul 5, 2015 16:08
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2015 16:12
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Wrong thread. The most accurate post in the GC thread in months.
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Jul 5, 2015 16:16
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:He is an antagonist. I agree. But is he a villain? I don't think so.
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Jul 5, 2015 16:24
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Keiya posted:I don't think Anthony Carver is anywhere near as bad as most Reeds. Remember, canonically, primary Marvel universe Reed is the least dickish possible Reed Richards in existence, and he does things like take bribes from pharmaceutical companies to not release his cure for cancer. Anthony may be an emotionless bastard, but he's not that bad. Holy poo poo, did this really happen? How can you write about someone in a comic doing this and still expect anyone to see them as a hero?
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Jul 5, 2015 17:00
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Holy poo poo, did this really happen? How can you write about someone in a comic doing this and still expect anyone to see them as a hero? There can be good reasons for not curing cancer! 
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Jul 5, 2015 17:10
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I was talking to someone about Anthony, without saying names or what story, to see what she thought about him, and she compared him to Mr. Spock of all people.
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Jul 5, 2015 17:25
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"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Therefore, this absolutely vital task of literally severing Antimony from her heritage must be important to many people and is not just a selfish obsession of my own."
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Jul 5, 2015 17:40
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Fister Roboto posted:This is basically it. Splicer fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 18:29
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I have not actually seen anybody arguing for Anthony-as-cartoon-villain. Anthony-as-screwed-up-well-intentioned-shithead is pretty common, of course. I guess one question might be: do you consider Diego to be a villain? The fact that you can explain and even understand someone's motivations doesn't make their actual actions acceptable. (I'm not saying Tony is as bad as Diego, this is just a way of illustrating the question.)
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Jul 5, 2015 18:47
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Splicer posted:The thing is, whenever you get into specifics we end up with things like "We don't know Antony is bone spear man", which shows we have such a fundamental disconnect on things I would view as almost pure text that I'm really curious what other "clear cut" aspects we disagree on. What you're asking of me is a whole lot of effort and honestly kind of weird. I don't know what your opinion is on every single other aspect of the comic, nor do I care. I will say that the comic does the "things aren't always as they appear on the surface" thing pretty often, so seeing a bunch of people react to how things appear on the surface in this instance is kind of funny.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:54
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EmmyOk posted:There can be good reasons for not curing cancer! Fair enough. Anyway, the thing about Anthony is he doesn't know his daughter very well. If something has gone wrong with her he's not going to be able to tell. It's possible that whatever is happening to her is completely unrelated to him and he simply hasn't noticed. If it does turn out the court is behind this it's actually a pretty smart plan: they caused a major change in Annie's life, and then while everyone was freaking out about that they replaced her with a robot or something. So if anyone starts to wonder why Annie is acting so bizarre they'll assume "it's because of her dad" and not "it's because she's a freakin' robot".
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Jul 5, 2015 19:15
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2015 19:31
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Fister Roboto posted:What you're asking of me is a whole lot of effort and honestly kind of weird. I don't know what your opinion is on every single other aspect of the comic, nor do I care. I will say that the comic does the "things aren't always as they appear on the surface" thing pretty often, so seeing a bunch of people react to how things appear on the surface in this instance is kind of funny. e: as in, there's things that are still very much open for interpretation, like exactly how morally questionable the bone hands thing is, but saying that bone hands may not actually Tony at all is, to me, on par with saying that Jones might actually be a robot and has just been lying. I mean it's possible, but... Splicer fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 20:06
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2015 20:15
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It also makes a particularly apt "passing the torch" metaphor.
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Jul 5, 2015 21:11
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Fister Roboto posted:You know, so far, I'm not seeing a downside to removing a magical parasite that eventually kills its host and then transfers to her child. Rand Brittain posted:Well, in this case, the parasite is the child. You guys are giving me terrible flashbacks to the traumatic experience of having my Paras evolve into a Parasect as a child. Those hollow, empty eyes. She evolved, and I did nothing. By god, I did nothing. If I had the option to simply remove the parasite instead of evolving her, though, would I have taken it? Should I have taken it? Could what was left after that have been called the same creature any more than the Paras could? The morality of identity is truly a tricky thing, isn't it, when applied to fictional characters such as these?
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Jul 5, 2015 21:19
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's not really her heritage as her being. "The Fire" is Annie's vitality, her very essence. That the bearer of the fire dies is not a hereditary disease, it's the nature of life itself: you die when your life ends. Simple as that. It's a pretty straight-forward metaphor (recall the saying that "the brightest flame burns the quickest").
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Jul 5, 2015 22:01
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2015 22:06
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Well that's why he's the antagonist. I am possibly being an idiot here but are you implying "being the antagonist" somehow magically grants him all that knowledge? (And motivation, for that matter)
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Jul 6, 2015 02:05
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Kyte posted:I am possibly being an idiot here but are you implying "being the antagonist" somehow magically grants him all that knowledge? No, they're saying that Anthony blundering onward regardless makes him an antagonist.
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Jul 6, 2015 03:04
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