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Atlas Hugged posted:
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Jul 5, 2018 03:16
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Careful though, that’s a good way to catch Khlong Dong
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Jul 5, 2018 03:33
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Gromit posted:I'll be interested to see how China's new self-driving buses pan out.  Atlas Hugged posted:It's also worth noting that prostitution and compensated dating have been a deeply ingrained part of Thai culture for centuries, to the point that Chinese traders would comment on it in their letters and journals. Using Tinder, some of the educated, younger generation have this idea in their heads seeing all the ugly farm girls getting Prada bags from old alcoholics that they are entitled to a younger foreign man who can supply them that fairy tale romance along with money, as well as being on a level of love and respect due to age similarities. Tinder was a trainwreck there and made me depressed to even use it. After a while, I couldn't find any difference between the country "buffalos" and the middle-class BKK girls in terms of outlook and requirements. Six months there, I inadvertently dated more Chinese than Thais because of this. Coincidentally, this fine Mainland lady that I complained about meeting in Bangkok: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3790448&userid=221652&pagenumber=10#post482686648 Turned out to be one of best Chinese I have met. She was utterly idiotic at first, and then suddenly did a full 180 after I stopped being polite to her. "I like you, nobody has ever said things like this to me before. Usually men are trying to be sweet to me because they think I am pretty. I know what they want. You are being honest. I like when you call me childish and stupid, nobody said this to me. You are right. I shouldn't behave this way." I was being honest, but apparently that flattered her so much that over a short time she started acting like an adult, and very pleasant. She's helped me, I've helped her, and now she gave me a part-time job. She's similar to Chaoshan Girl in terms of solid friendship, but without the mood swings and young girl BS. We'll hang out again in Shenzhen and Thailand later. She told me a bit about how it is work for Xinhua and all the popular news outlets in China It turns out that all those reporters writing for all the major news agencies in China don't do their own work, and it's all done by ghostwriters who rely on... Baidu! Doing this type of work and living abroad whenever she feels like it, she's come to terms with how much lies and propaganda her government gives out. She utterly hates China. Like, her complaints sound like an r/china post cranked up to "maybe it's time for you to drink some hot water and leave the country" level. She also hates Chinese people and face culture and the cheating and cha bu duo around her. We might not talk for bit and then suddenly I get a "I hate Chinese people!" message and I have an LOL at what bit of trouble she got into. I told her many of my China dating follies, including sending proof from old chat logs, so she could get some inspiration for her stories, and she's always like "don't date Chinese women, they are deranged. Just don't do it, you can't do that to yourself. Think of the consequences! I know this because I am a Chinese woman." Too late. Kraft singles melted on roadside sushi is called gourmet Japanese cuisine, sweetie. Look it up.
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Jul 5, 2018 04:38
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chairman of hna group wang jian just died in france by falling off a cliff because he wanted a better vacation shot https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/04/business/hna-chairman-wang-jian-death.html quote:Mr. Wang, 57, was on a business trip to France, but had taken a detour on Tuesday to go sightseeing when the fall happened, according to HNA and the French police. The police said they were treating his death as an accident.
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Jul 5, 2018 05:46
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Atlas Hugged posted:Even in Taiwan, the kitchens in modern apartments were fairly lovely. They just don't really put any emphasis on space or appliances. And why would you bake at home when you can get a sugary, sausage filled mess covered in mayonnaise at the local super market? Baking is just not a big thing in east Asia! And supermarkets tend to cater to convenient instead of taste. It’s like your average American supermarket is addicted to HFCs
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Jul 5, 2018 06:13
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Bajaj posted:LOL. Exactly. I only point it out since it's not entirely fair to say the U.S. military showed up and suddenly prostitutes sprung out of the soil. The infrastructure was largely already in place and a business opportunity presented itself and the modern industry developed from there. Had the U.S. military not used Thailand as a convenient R&R spot, prostitution would still be a major problem, just a lot more local or regional in nature.
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Jul 5, 2018 06:30
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Atlas Hugged posted:Exactly. I only point it out since it's not entirely fair to say the U.S. military showed up and suddenly prostitutes sprung out of the soil. The infrastructure was largely already in place and a business opportunity presented itself and the modern industry developed from there. But if you can't blame the States for it, however will you get that self-righteous rant-boner?
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Jul 5, 2018 07:24
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WarpedNaba posted:But if you can't blame the States for it, however will you get that self-righteous rant-boner? let’s go to our expert on this matter, pro prc laowai- how do YOU maintain your undying zeal to dismantle the unnamed country, citizen?
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Jul 5, 2018 10:27
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Sex and gambling exists everywhere in the world without a doubt. But to hand wave the explosive growth due to historical factors is kinda rich
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Jul 5, 2018 12:54
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caberham posted:Sex and gambling exists everywhere in the world without a doubt. Which historical factor are we keying in on here: America, Russia, Britain, China, ???
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Jul 5, 2018 12:56
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The sex and tourist industry really shot up and went to critical mass when US set up shop post world war. A good portion of tourism in South East Asia catered to servicemen and US naval deployments during the Cold War. Sleazy sexpat pensioners without a doubt continued to fuel the growth post Cold War.
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Jul 5, 2018 13:10
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caberham posted:The sex and tourist industry really shot up and went to critical mass when US set up shop post world war. Yeah, definitely. For the interested, there are still a couple bars in Thailand that date back to that era. I even found a veteran’s website about Taiwan, actually, talking about how it used to be an R&R destination too. They had some great pictures, I’m pretty sure I posted it somewhere in this thread.
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Jul 5, 2018 13:30
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lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJxjIWovXFc
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Jul 5, 2018 13:31
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caberham posted:The sex and tourist industry really shot up and went to critical mass when US set up shop post world war. So I'm doing that annoying thing where I point out that history is more complicated than a soundbite. Obviously, the reputation of Thailand today is owed in large part to the using of ports as R&R destinations by the U.S. military. But Taiwan was exactly the same. Why didn't Taipei turn into the world number one spot for sex tourism after the military left? Because there are other factors at play, obviously. Part of the reason Thailand was able to have the sex industry boom that it had was because the groundwork for the sex industry was already in place. This is supported by the fact that documents that are literally hundreds of years old comment on it. So yes, without dispute the United States bares responsibility. But that responsibility is not solely at the feet of America. If America is taken out of the equation, the sex industry would still be rampant in Thailand. Human trafficking and sexual slavery would still be a massive problem. But it would be regional in nature as opposed to the destination for western pensioners in addition to locals looking for a third minor wife or handjob parlor.
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Jul 5, 2018 14:21
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caberham posted:A good portion of tourism in South East Asia catered to servicemen and US naval deployments during the Cold War. There were plenty of servicemen and Royal/French Navy deployments before WW2 too, though. It's not like the area was devoid of the white man before the US came along, something something imperialism etc.
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Jul 5, 2018 14:24
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I bet there are watering holes on Hong Kong Island that date back to 1842, too.
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Jul 5, 2018 14:56
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The science of finding old drinking establishments for the purpose of cultural study is called “Barchaeology”, incidentally
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Jul 5, 2018 14:57
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Like what I said, sex and gambling was always there. And sex industry feeds off from the tourism industry - well it’s more of a chicken and egg thing. But US contribution really made everything hit critical mass. Thai beaches are not the nicest or cheapest beaches in the world anymore but nowadays have become the most convenient. Thailand’s geographic location is alway much more convenient compared to Taiwan. So the sex just comes with the territory. Thailand’s sex industry also managed to grow because of foreign investment and government infrastructure. There’s Nikon, Western Digital and a bunch of factories and blue collar manufacturing jobs feeds into the foreigner sex industry as well. Thailand now can lose its #1 spot for sexpats when the country becomes richer, cost of living is getting higher and there’s an alternative to take its place. China used to be super rampant, I mean extremely rampant with its sex industry 20 years ago - you had husbands pimping their wives during the 90’s in north east china when all the state owned factories closed. There’s an even bigger sexy industry and that’s Japan, where porn is actually legal but its industry is reserved for domestic market. And there’s crazier poo poo out there thanks to studio Genki. Philippines and Cambodia is even more miserable but Thailand has that #1 spot because Thailand had that earlier push, and Philippines being on the edge of SEA is just further from everything else.
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Jul 5, 2018 15:09
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Fun fact, Jardine and Matheson, the founders of one of Hong Kong’s mega corporations met at a whorehouse smoking opium.
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Jul 5, 2018 15:20
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I mean, you're pretty flagrantly contradicting yourself. Location played a huge role, but it's absolutely not losing its status with wealth. In fact, it's more in grained than ever. Specifically because the locals don't want it to go anywhere. Bangkok is the hub of Southeast Asia. Phnom Penh isn't going to suddenly replace it. And as long as that's true, Thailand is staying on top of the world, and it has been since before WW2.
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Jul 5, 2018 15:21
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Look I’m just trying not to be combative and I was over typing things. Modern US involvement really compounded the growth in the sex industry and its contribution is nothing to be scoffed at - even though vice is one of those universal traits. You were comparing Taiwan and Thailand in terms of US involvement - I also brought in Japan for comparison, Japan has its own domestic sleaze. Prostitution is way more open in the East Asia / South East Asia but the stigma is different. What I am trying to say is - all these different factors combined with US involvement really sealed Thailand to #1. Even though Thailand and rest of SEA had sexpats of different origins whether they were navies or traders , US did propel everything up into the stratosphere. Straights Chinese or Pernanalan culture was started by rich Chinese sexpats banging local girls. But hey, that’s how you get weird fusion cuisine and new kinds of food!
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Jul 5, 2018 15:47
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Atlas Hugged posted:This is supported by the fact that documents that are literally hundreds of years old comment on it. hey now let’s not bring ancient documents into this, that’s something china would do
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Jul 5, 2018 15:51
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caberham posted:Look I’m just trying not to be combative and I was over typing things. I think we're on the same page. These problems existed before and will out live the U.S, whose role can't be understated. But they are not the sole bearers of responsibility.
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Jul 5, 2018 15:55
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Cry Havoc posted:hey now let’s not bring ancient documents into this, that’s something china would do Hahhaha I was going to say this. And when I think of ancient documents I think of those bad travel guides or travel blogs - telling me about secret shops behind temples
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Jul 5, 2018 15:58
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Atlas Hugged posted:I think we're on the same page. These problems existed before and will out live the U.S, whose role can't be understated. But they are not the sole bearers of responsibility. It looks more like: Thailand was known for this and given factors, will continue to be known for it, but the U.S. brought a ton of foreign capital, logistics, and economy at a very crucial time to cause a paradigm shift from "SEA's sex tourism place" to "the world's sex tourism place" Which doesn't exactly contradict what you said, but does highlight that a subjectively minor contribution from a world superpower at the time was objectively a large contribution for the area, if not any other country in the world.
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Jul 5, 2018 16:32
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Mistle posted:It looks more like: Thailand was known for this and given factors, will continue to be known for it, but the U.S. brought a ton of foreign capital, logistics, and economy at a very crucial time to cause a paradigm shift from "SEA's sex tourism place" to "the world's sex tourism place" I'll accept that.
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Jul 5, 2018 16:53
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caberham posted:Fun fact, Jardine and Matheson, the founders of one of Hong Kong’s mega corporations met at a whorehouse smoking opium. This sounds like Quentin Tarantino writing James Clavell fanfiction
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Jul 5, 2018 16:55
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Atlas Hugged posted:Exactly. I only point it out since it's not entirely fair to say the U.S. military showed up and suddenly prostitutes sprung out of the soil. The infrastructure was largely already in place and a business opportunity presented itself and the modern industry developed from there. Post-Vietnam it was never really a tourist destination in infrastructure and family-friendly entertainment until only very recently, and its reputation was always pretty lovely because it was known for just two things (the other thing is food). Maybe I am just jaded, but I think it's a meager-at-best place for a holiday in terms of things to do that aren't just designed to empty your wallet. "Cool, another Central with the same shops and American, Japanese, and Chinese chain restaurants." IMO, if you've been to like two or three Thai temples, you've reach peak-sameness and don't have to bother going to any others. My dad told me if you went in the 1980s, hotels from Chiang Mai to the islands would always have hotel hookers on hand, along with a menu of stuff like heroine, opium, and hashish if you paid in advance. In his words, "a lot of guys would come here and overload on all the stuff they could get for such a low price (women and drugs) and then burn out really hard or just die one day. It was normal." They still do, but it used to be a lot easier and out in the open. I remember in the 1990s in his neighborhood, everyone was growing huge potted marijuana plants that were 2 meters tall in their yards. Nobody gave a poo poo. Now you can go to jail for X-XX amount of years if you are caught with an e-cigarette, lol. Atlas Hugged posted:Part of the reason Thailand was able to have the sex industry boom that it had was because the groundwork for the sex industry was already in place. This is supported by the fact that documents that are literally hundreds of years old comment on it. The Philippines and Thailand both have specific visas for old guys to come retire there (Thailand's Non-Immigrant-O starts at age 50, which is really young, IMO), and also ways to extend visas to stay easily. In the Philippines you pay like $35 USD at the immigration office every month after you arrive, for up to like 30 months or something before you have to fly out and return, and you can just live there like it's your home country almost. At least that was the case before Duterte, I don't know about now. If Thailand hadn't reshaped their tourist visa rules in the 2010s, they would still be neck-deep in people doing the border runs by van to stay just as much and work illegally.
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Jul 5, 2018 17:30
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So pro-sex or anti-sex? I don't think blaming America for sex is productive.
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Jul 5, 2018 18:21
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oohhboy posted:So pro-sex or anti-sex? I don't think blaming America for sex is productive. Khorne fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jul 5, 2018 |
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Jul 5, 2018 19:15
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oohhboy posted:So pro-sex or anti-sex? I don't think blaming America for sex is productive. If it's bad, its American fault. If it's something good like the general acceptance of transgender people, then it has nothing to do with america. caberham posted:Baking is just not a big thing in east Asia! Food in America has lots of corn syrup because of subsidies, it's not really a cultural thing. You can do the same things in a western kitchen that you can in a Chinese one, but just openly admitting the western one gives you more options would be a loss of face.
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Jul 5, 2018 19:53
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it doesn’t give you more options to wok with
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Jul 5, 2018 20:37
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Does thailand even have more sex work per capita than China?
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Jul 5, 2018 21:50
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Cry Havoc posted:it doesn’t give you more options to wok with 
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Jul 5, 2018 22:29
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Hot rear end good for healthy
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Jul 5, 2018 22:38
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nickmeister posted:If it's bad, its American fault. If it's something good like the general acceptance of transgender people, then it has nothing to do with america. You mean Europe and Scandinavia when it comes to actual social progress, a social safety net, public transportation, and health care. America is still rear end backwards for a developed country but it’s still no PRC! This can’t be repeated enough, Kissinger is a piece of trash and American Foreign Policy have created untold amounts of suffering. The States also easily gets off the hook quote:Food in America has lots of corn syrup because of subsidies, it's not really a cultural thing. You can do the same things in a western kitchen that you can in a Chinese one, but just openly admitting the western one gives you more options would be a loss of face. The subsidies have been there for quite a while and HFC is so prevalent. That sugary taste is just part of America now. Isn’t a Chinese kitchen just a smaller space with a lot of ventilation to get the wok and other smells out of the house? Open kitchens aren’t as popular here in China.
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Jul 5, 2018 22:46
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caberham posted:You mean Europe and Scandinavia when it comes to actual social progress, a social safety net, public transportation, and health care. America is still rear end backwards for a developed country but it’s still no PRC! I couldn’t agree more, let’s pull back militarily from Europe, let them get eaten by Russia, and make America great again Asia is the future, and europe is irrelevant. The only people who care about Europe are white nationalist “muh white homeland” types. gently caress them, I’m sick of subsidizing their social safety nets Pro PRC Laowai fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jul 5, 2018 |
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Jul 5, 2018 23:10
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go grab some hot water and have a rest, cab, corn syrup had to go through an entire renaming campaign in like 2008 or something because so many people were tired of it that it was experiencing large-scale consumer rejection. it is still in a lot of stuff but even the cut rate grocery stores that don't accept credit cards have 'natural' aisles now where corn syrup and other artificial sweeteners are banned. hell, mid-range ones that try to position themselves as community cornerstones like hy-vee have entire quadrants of their huge megastores like that now. the united states is not a hellscape where nothing ever changes. not even gonna touch your other stuff even though it is even weirder than the corn syrup rant just because i'm really not interested in starting that particular firefight in here.
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Jul 5, 2018 23:11
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My mother and father knew a guy in Taipei who invited them over for a home cooked meal. My parents, and my father especially, love learning to cook, so of course they went over! Their buddy starts prepping the food while talking to my parents while they stand in the hall. This is when my father notices dude is cutting on a bunch of newspaper laid down on the counter. "So hey, you don't have a cutting board?" "Naw, just put some paper down and peel the top off when it gets dirty! Lasts all week." "Ah. How about we pack up and all go to our apartment to cook?" That polite deflection started a two day bender and a friendship which lasts to this day. Sometimes coming over with a beer and some food gets complicated. Or: If you can't make friends with booze and munchies, you aren't trying hard enough.
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Jul 5, 2018 23:19
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caberham posted:
Uh, my kitchen is an "open kitchen" and it has ventilation wtf. Besides, based on what I've seen, Chinese kitchens are only different in the sense that there's nowhere to put things down and everything is covered in oil and soot. Pro PRC Laowai posted:I couldn’t agree more, let’s pull back militarily from Europe, let them get eaten by Russia, and make America great again
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Jul 6, 2018 00:48
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