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There is no shame whatsoever in enjoying AoA.
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Oct 3, 2014 21:40
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Yeah even the Scott Lobdell parts of Age of Apocalypse are good.
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Oct 3, 2014 21:46
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As someone ignorant of AOA, was there a main core line in that story or was it just sort of scattered in the main X Books? It always seemed to me as a weirdly complicated arc since it sort of just went on into it's own thing for years and years.
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Oct 3, 2014 22:17
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OldTennisCourt posted:As someone ignorant of AOA, was there a main core line in that story or was it just sort of scattered in the main X Books? It always seemed to me as a weirdly complicated arc since it sort of just went on into it's own thing for years and years. It starts with X-Men: Alpha, and then each of the 8 X-titles had their 4 part minis, and then it ended with X-Men: Omega. It's not really that complicated. redbackground fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 22:26
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redbackground posted:It lasted for only 4 months. Were the follow-up series any good, or were they just cashgrabs?
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Oct 3, 2014 22:28
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redbackground posted:It only lasted for 4 months. Wasen't there an ongoing or something because it was so popular? I know Dark Beast is now in 616 and the AOA Blob and Nightcrawler popped around a while back too.
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Oct 3, 2014 22:50
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Apocalypse Didn't know who any of the talent was back then, but looking now, that's quite the who's who of comic pros. I remember liking Generation NeXt and Astonishing X-Men.
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Oct 3, 2014 22:50
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Does WildC.A.T.S vs. Aliens (aka Stormwatch: Final Orbit) count?
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Oct 4, 2014 00:06
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How about the Image crossover that never ended?
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Oct 4, 2014 00:09
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bobkatt013 posted:How about the Image crossover that never ended? Was that Image United, or some part of World's End I never got round to reading (because the whole "Comics armageddon" thing has generally turned me off poo poo since Infinite Crisis)?
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Oct 4, 2014 00:21
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OldTennisCourt posted:Wasen't there an ongoing or something because it was so popular? I know Dark Beast is now in 616 and the AOA Blob and Nightcrawler popped around a while back too. As well as Sugar-man,X-man (Nathan Grey) and Holocaust/Nemesis/Genocide??? (I think that's his name now) before his 616 counterpart showed up. A bunch more if you include the ones from Exiles.
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Oct 4, 2014 00:33
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Kulkasha posted:Were the follow-up series any good, or were they just cashgrabs? The one in the mid-00's was pretty mediocre and I don't remember a single interesting thing about it. A couple years ago they did an Age of Apocalypse ongoing, which was sort of a spinoff of what was going on in Uncanny X-Force. The main thing was that Apocalypse's energies took over Wolverine and he went insane. Unfortunately, David Lapham did absolutely nothing with the awesomely ridiculous Black Legion team Remender created in X-Force (Grimm Chamber, Iron Ghost, Zombie Sentry, Orange Hulk, etc.). The ongoing was a good read. From the beginning, Lapham had killed off the entire X-Men team except for Jean and Sabretooth, who each got depowered. The main characters of the series were a team of human freedom fighters called X-Terminated made up of alternate versions of characters who are mutant-hating humans in regular continuity. William Stryker, otherwise known as Prophet, is the leader and the other members include Graydon Creed, Francesca Trask, Donald Pierce, and so on. The ending is kind of unfortunate. Lapham wrote a perfect farewell to the Age of Apocalypse world where humans and mutants were able to live peacefully. Then immediately after, they did the X-Termination event, which was about crossing over AoA, Astonishing X-Men and X-Treme X-Men while cancelling all of them. This led to the death of a bunch of characters and the destruction of the AoA Earth, though Jean made sure to smuggle Prophet to 616 against his will. Back in the 90's, there was also a What If based on continuing AoA. It was laughably bad, though the ending was surprisingly similar to the Ultimate Galactus story.
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Oct 4, 2014 00:51
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House of M is kind of a strange beast. I can fully understand not liking it as it wase a continuation of Scarlet Witch getting destroyed as a character and there were some really weird moments (The whole idea that Peter Parker's perfect life was married with Gwen Stacey was a liiiiittle weird to me) but I kind of liked a lot of what I remember of it. As someone who never really read X-Men I have no clue how the No More Mutants idea was treated in comics, was it well done or did it just sort of ruin poo poo?
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Oct 4, 2014 01:21
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OldTennisCourt posted:(The whole idea that Peter Parker's perfect life was married with Gwen Stacey was a liiiiittle weird to me) It's more that his perfect life is one where Gwen never died.
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Oct 4, 2014 01:23
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WickedHate posted:It's more that his perfect life is one where Gwen never died. I can understand that, I suppose in retrospect of One More Day, it sort of feels like another attempt to throw MJ under the bus. I'm fully aware I'm probably reading too much into it.
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Oct 4, 2014 01:25
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OldTennisCourt posted:I know Dark Beast is now in 616 and the AOA Blob and Nightcrawler popped around a while back too.
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Oct 4, 2014 01:48
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OldTennisCourt posted:I can understand that, I suppose in retrospect of One More Day, it sort of feels like another attempt to throw MJ under the bus. I'm fully aware I'm probably reading too much into it. I interpret it as a life where Peter doesn't encounter the two worst tragedies of his life - notice how Uncle Ben is still alive. Also MJ is a world-famous supermodel.
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Oct 4, 2014 11:52
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House of M deals with how hosed up Gwen being alive in Peter's perfect world was. There's a great panel of Peter just slumped over a table. Bendis really hammered home in his New Avengers run how insane Peter's life has been, and how it actually weighs down on him. There's little moments like that I enjoy in House of M, like Carol questioning the assumption that they should change the world back. Kulkasha posted:I interpret it as a life where Peter doesn't encounter the two worst tragedies of his life - notice how Uncle Ben is still alive. Also MJ is a world-famous supermodel.
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Oct 4, 2014 15:56
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Timeless Appeal posted:House of M deals with how hosed up Gwen being alive in Peter's perfect world was. There's a great panel of Peter just slumped over a table. Bendis really hammered home in his New Avengers run how insane Peter's life has been, and how it actually weighs down on him. There's little moments like that I enjoy in House of M, like Carol questioning the assumption that they should change the world back.
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Oct 4, 2014 16:03
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Edge & Christian posted:I mean I see your point, but for Peter Parker's fondest wish to be dead might be just a touch darker than they wanted to go. Plus if you really establish that you're just going to have twenty years of hack writers doing stories where a depressed bearded Peter is THIS CLOSE to just shoving that webshooter in his mouth and ending it all, before [something]. It's more of a really hosed up and juvenile selfless act that isn't in line with Peter actually wanting to kill himself (something that would pain others). I do think it's slightly less hosed up then finding out you only married your wife because Norman Osborn threw your actual true love off of a bridge. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 4, 2014 16:24
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Timeless Appeal posted:It's more of a really hosed up and juvenile selfish act that isn't in line with Peter actually wanting to kill himself (something that would pain others). I do think it's slightly less hosed up then finding out you only married your wife because Norman Osborn threw your actual true love off of a bridge. They dealt with this in Universe X too, which was even more messed up. Peter was in a comatose state where he was locked in his own fantasy life. His daughter May (who is Venom in this timeline) goes into his head and sees that not only did Peter marry Gwen, but their son is Spider-Man. She collapsed in tears and seeing her fall apart like that snapped Peter out of it. He also realized that in his fantasy, he didn't choose to change it so that Uncle Ben lived, which disturbed him.
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Oct 4, 2014 17:17
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OldTennisCourt posted:So, in retrospect where would we place Original Sin? Yeah, Original Sin was pretty drat good and somehow had pretty great tie-ins like, across the board, unless I'm forgetting some terrible one.
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Oct 5, 2014 18:20
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TwoPair posted:Yeah, Original Sin was pretty drat good and somehow had pretty great tie-ins like, across the board, unless I'm forgetting some terrible one. I agree. While Original Sin won't be a classic story in the longrun, it's still one of the most solid events. You can read the miniseries without needing to read the tie-ins and vice versa. The tie-ins all come with the same basic concept, but it's far more versatile than the Blackest Night/Secret Invasion stuff. One thing that was refreshing was that other than the Illuminati stuff that we already knew about beforehand, none of the reveals really led to any major character assassinations. We all thought that the Iron Man/Hulk thing would lead to ruination of the enjoyable Tony/Bruce bromance, but instead it gave us a great twist and that awesome, "THEN STOP MAKING ME ANGRY, BRUCE! YOU ALWAYS MAKE ME SO drat ANGRY!" scene. The only real problem with Original Sin is the screwy continuity. Hickman, Aaron and Remender have all this important stuff going on in their comics and nothing matches up. The Avengers tie-in doesn't really jibe with the storytelling. Original Sin ends with Thor dropping the hammer. Cap loses his powers after the story, but Thor is still shown with Mjolnir in Cap's book. More a problem with Marvel editorial than anything else, but Original Sin is kind of the centerpiece to it.
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Oct 5, 2014 18:46
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The Deadpool tie in kinda sucked rear end for a majority of it because it was basically Deadpool killing vampires with an unfunny disco joke for like 3 issues straight but it ended in a very sweet manner so even that one wasen't ALL bad.
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Oct 5, 2014 19:18
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Gavok posted:We all thought that the Iron Man/Hulk thing would lead to ruination of the enjoyable Tony/Bruce bromance, but instead it gave us a great twist and that awesome, "THEN STOP MAKING ME ANGRY, BRUCE! YOU ALWAYS MAKE ME SO drat ANGRY!" scene. I didn't read this tie in mini as it was coming out, but this post made me go back and get it. Wow, that was a great little story. Way better than the Thor & Loki one, and probably more enjoyable for me overall than Original Sin proper. That moment with Tony and Banner in the desert was just so great. So thanks for that, I guess.
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Oct 5, 2014 20:21
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Diet Poison posted:I didn't read this tie in mini as it was coming out, but this post made me go back and get it. Wow, that was a great little story. Way better than the Thor & Loki one, and probably more enjoyable for me overall than Original Sin proper. That moment with Tony and Banner in the desert was just so great. So thanks for that, I guess. I myself didn't get it because scans_daily was talking about how it was garbage and ruining Tony and blah blah, then I picked up and realized "oh yeah, SD has terrible taste in comics" so it was two little lessons in one!
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Oct 5, 2014 20:43
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OldTennisCourt posted:I myself didn't get it because scans_daily was talking about how it was garbage and ruining Tony and blah blah, then I picked up and realized "oh yeah, SD has terrible taste in comics" so it was two little lessons in one! Somewhere in the last couple of years, S_D went from a bunch of giggly fangirls posting pages out of context to a bunch of bitter jackasses posting comics specifically so they can talk about how bad they are. I had to stop going there; it used to be interesting at times or at least post stuff I'd never heard of, but now it's just bile.
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Oct 5, 2014 22:04
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Wanderer posted:Somewhere in the last couple of years, S_D went from a bunch of giggly fangirls posting pages out of context to a bunch of bitter jackasses posting comics specifically so they can talk about how bad they are. I had to stop going there; it used to be interesting at times or at least post stuff I'd never heard of, but now it's just bile. Every single Avengers post could be summed up with "UGH, REMEMBER WHEN SUPER HEROES FOUGHT BAD GUYS? WHY IS EVERYONE SO MEAN, WHY CAN'T WE HAVE GOOD CLEAN COMICS THESE DAYS? UGH". Like the very idea of exploring hard choices with heroes is baffling and too 'dark and gritty' for them. V----------It's not so much that specific instance so much as something I've noticed there and in a bunch of other places where any comic that has the smallest bit of dark content is immediately decried as "dark and gritty garbage" and is therefore turning off anyone new from enjoying comics and so on and so on. OldTennisCourt fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 22:22
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Well, that's not really an unreasonable stance. The current Avengers comic is basically unrecognizable as an Avengers book. It's like Jacket Avengers for the modern age, in that way.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:03
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What would you consider recognizable as an Avengers book?
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Oct 6, 2014 03:47
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Keep in mind that the S_D objection is that same nebulous school of comics quasi-criticism that characterizes much of the Internet: the book is being constantly compared to a Platonic ideal of itself that exists entirely in the reader's head and will thus consistently be the worse for the comparison. It's an unpleasable, yawning mass of complaining that mostly seems to feed some kind of insatiable, cynicism-fueled snarkbeast, and the only sensible reaction is to disengage.
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Oct 6, 2014 04:43
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Wanderer posted:It's an unpleasable, yawning mass of complaining that mostly seems to feed some kind of insatiable, cynicism-fueled snarkbeast, and the only sensible reaction is to disengage. Or laugh at and  about the mass. Then again, it's not like any threads on SA have never devolved into a death spiral of jaded goons 
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Oct 6, 2014 08:15
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OldTennisCourt posted:House of M is kind of a strange beast. I can fully understand not liking it as it wase a continuation of Scarlet Witch getting destroyed as a character and there were some really weird moments (The whole idea that Peter Parker's perfect life was married with Gwen Stacey was a liiiiittle weird to me) but I kind of liked a lot of what I remember of it. As someone who never really read X-Men I have no clue how the No More Mutants idea was treated in comics, was it well done or did it just sort of ruin poo poo? As I recall, the main series is a total of ten issues and just.... not nearly enough happens to justify that amount of page space. The X-Men and Avengers go to Genosha to deal with Wanda, she zaps reality, first Wolverine and then the others figure out what's happened, and then they go have a big throw-down with Wanda and Magneto. And that's the whole story. It's a Bendis joint, so the dialogue and character moments are mostly pretty enjoyable (I don't think Bendis gets Wolverine or knows how to write him well but whatever), but it's really an example of 2004-2010 decompressed storytelling at its worst. As for its fallout... I think it seriously broke the back of the X-titles, threw away the world and setting they'd been building for the last 16 years and the X-books have been struggling to deal with it ever since. Books like X-Factor and District X lost their reason to exist, with now only 198 mutants living in a refugee camp on the X-mansion lawn. After that things really swung pver to the Avengers, and what they were doing was the top card stuff in the Marvel U, while the X-Men withdrew into a marginal and convoluted place with all that stuff about Hope I didn't read. I mean I, at the time, as a comics reader went totally over to reading New Avengers and its crossovers and spinoffs because that was where the action was. The X-Men were now all about survival and living in a bunker and they had obliterated a bunch of the cool new characters from DeFillipis and Weir's New X-Men run and it was just kind of depressing. Now I'm realizing what a fool I was not to have been reading Carey's run in X-Men at the time though! Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 10:58
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Edge & Christian posted:What would you consider recognizable as an Avengers book? Is there any answer I could give that wouldn't cause you to list several minor arcs that don't 100% fit my definition?
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Oct 6, 2014 11:52
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laz0rbeak posted:Secret Invasion isn't getting enough hate. It's a big event comic that Bendis claimed he'd been planning for years. Then the series starts, we get a ship full of "lost" characters, except it turns out they're skrulls! So we get six issues of pointless filler fight scenes with basically none of the cloak and dagger "who can you trust?" stuff that was supposed to be the appeal of the event, since, shockingly enough, the Skrulls get punked out once everyone figures out who's a Skrull. Then the finale is a poorly staged fight scene where Bendis kills off a character he hadn't done anything with in a completely throw-away fashion, all to lead-in to the incredibly idiotic idea that somehow the entirety of the Marvel Universe gets taken into believing that Norman Osborn should be made commander of everything, and that the media is so lazy they won't bother to check up on Norman's mental problems, or his years-long disappearance in Europe when he was presumed dead, or the persistent rumors that he's a sociopathic super-villain. I liked Secret Invasion quite a bit since it did a lot to explain Civil War. I did find it dissapointing that Bendis goes all this way to establish Veranke as this mastermind awesome new villain, then promptly kills her off. Like Bucky-Cap, Iron Man and then Thor comes out of nowhere and it's supposed to be this big badass moment bit it's kinda undersoled by the Skrulls getting curb stomped as soon as they come out in the end. Jan dying at the end also pretty much came out of nowhere and felt like an afterthought, like "oh poo poo it's a crossover, we gotta kill someone who's kind of a name but that we have no plans for." Part of it was that the Spider Woman reveal was fantastic and well done, but then they waffled back on that and said "okay Jess is still alive!" When the whole point was this character you'd fallen in love with was an imposter all along. Osborne becoming a national hero is kinda ludicrous but it was so awesome (and Dark Avengers was just such a great book, with Bullseye, Daken and Mac Gargan playing the Three Stooges of evil) I found that pretty easy to overlook. And poo poo, as anti-climactic as it was, Tony just rolling in and shutting down Osborne's poo poo was a great moment, as was Ares' whole arc leading up to his death. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 12:06
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So my thoughts after finishing Fear Itself: The whole thing is a jumbled mess. It had a really great feeling of dread at the start, Sin gets the hammer, becomes this evil force and awakens this old dude who is the true Allfather or whatever. Okay, that's cool! But the problem is the story feels that Odin going "Yeah, he's my brother. Dude's a dick and I killed a lot of people to stop him." was enough to sustain this guy's backstory. poo poo happens with no real fanfare. The comic keeps telling us that the world is being destroyed, but you never get a sense of that and just randomly cramming in SCARRRRY NEWS REPORTS doesn't help. We get one small panel of tons of bodies in Paris and then Tony tells us how bad it is and that's it. The Serpent himself is probably the most egregious example of "oh man this new event has a new villain and he's so loving scary and unstoppable and *character* was always scared of him (despite no one ever mentioning him beforehand ever)" I've ever seen. I think this might even top Doomsday, because even he wasn't being shoehorned into Superman's history. The new Avengers get costumes which is cool but they have them for like an issue, tops, before that's done with. Again, I'm only reading the trade with the main story, but I feel like the main story should at least feel cohesive or give us a sense of scale. The weirdest scene to me was when Sin tells the big bad that he's going to die, and what will she do next? Then there's this weirdly 'tender'? moment where he tells her all of this was for her. Then we never hear what the gently caress that even means, that's it.
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Oct 6, 2014 13:26
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Sounds like they messed up the trade. The paris stuff was in a tie-in. It does jibe with my reading it on unlimited where I also felt like much if the story was being missed even though I could grab the tie-ins as needed. It still had some nice character moment though. I am still fond of Tony Stark going athiest to Odin's face, as well as hi interaction with the dwarfs. It's telling though that these interactions sem disjointed from the rest of the story.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:46
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Thought I'd share this new article from CBR all about how event comics began.
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Oct 15, 2014 23:33
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Is it too early to put Spider-Verse on the list? Because it's just awful. I mean there's the occasional good bit in the tie-ins (not written by Slott-odd coincidence, that) but the main event...ugh.
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Nov 7, 2014 11:28
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It's one issue in, and it was a perfectly fine book.
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Nov 7, 2014 12:33
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