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There's no "might" about it, the manager lady even said "the guests screw up your storyline whenever they kill or gently caress something" The hosts aren't people and they're totally okay with them being abused horrifically. At least, they weren't people, they're becoming people thanks to Hopkins modifications, near as I can tell. The storywriter guy had the right of it, they *shouldn't* be improving them, making them too realistic is bad. He's just wrong about the extent of it, he's worried it will hurt the experience by making them too real and relatable, and not worried about actually abusing living creatures (even if they're not fully sapient, if you make them sentient enough it's still abhorrent)
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Oct 3, 2016 17:20
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whowhatwhere posted:e: Also I hope to god there's no military application subplot. I'd assume not because military applications would be good for shareholders and there's a split between the profit motive and what the upper management is aiming for. When the writer and manager lady were talking on the rooftop, they mentioned there are three different interests over the park. One was to the public, one was to the board (financial I assume.) The third was to management, and the way she said that their interests were entirely different sounded quite sinister.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:25
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Best show ever. Ed Harris as the grim reaper was great, Dolores at the end...Johnny Cash!!!! Now i want a cdpr/rockstar westworld game!
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Oct 3, 2016 17:25
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While watching, I sort of predicted-to-myself that the AI's would start showing signs of Rampancy due to that upgrade giving them access to a "subconscious" of their past experiences. My take was that it was done on purpose by Anthony Hopkins, however, as a sort of petri dish experiment to push their realism and AI qualities outside parameters. The way he talked about Humans having gotten as good as they're going to get pointed me in that direction, and I still felt that way when he gave his little light-hearted excuse about making an occasional mistake to his head programmer. Like, sure dude, you make mistakes all the time...? When Anthony Hopkins interviewed Robo-Dad, I was less sure, because everything in that scene seemed to be quite unexpected to everyone. That doesn't mean Hopkins didn't do it on purpose, but perhaps he didn't have a very good idea of what the effects would wind up being on his creations. One minor nitpick: If the robots have their memory banks wiped after every narrative/day is completed, it's a little bit of a stretch for me that the subconscious memory recall thing would reach all the way back to include every single past life they've had. If this feature had just been added, what on Earth would be the point of putting that much storage into the robots head. Like, imagine the terabytes of data that each day's collective experience would create every single time. You'd wipe all that poo poo clean each time, not leave it floating around in limbo and rewrite it endlessly for 30 years. This is why we defragment our hard drives, people.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:30
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I need to re-watch this episode but didn't Teddy recognize Ed Harris during their encounter? How could he recognize him if his memory is erased every day?
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Oct 3, 2016 17:35
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LadyPictureShow posted:E: With the 'milk', I'm assuming that's actually some kind of... android supplement or something? The milk pouring out of the bullet hole when the renegade host was going slaughter crazy was a neat visual. The hosts are made in milk, too. override367 posted:The storywriter guy had the right of it, they *shouldn't* be improving them, making them too realistic is bad. He's just wrong about the extent of it, he's worried it will hurt the experience by making them too real and relatable, and not worried about actually abusing living creatures (even if they're not fully sapient, if you make them sentient enough it's still abhorrent) Oh yeah, these scientists are definitely not thinking about the karmic retribution for their sins, as Old Pops puts it. Although he may have been repeating old lines from his desert cultist days, he is quite right about the blowback his makers have coming to them for all the trauma the androids have endured and the memories they have limited access to. It's also thematically neat that Dr. Ford called this latest code addition the reverie, which is also a musical term, easily haunted by melodies.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:40
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LadyPictureShow posted:E: With the 'milk', I'm assuming that's actually some kind of... android supplement or something? The milk pouring out of the bullet hole when the renegade host was going slaughter crazy was a neat visual.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:40
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Nashlogic posted:I need to re-watch this episode but didn't Teddy recognize Ed Harris during their encounter? How could he recognize him if his memory is erased every day? I didn't really take it to mean that Teddy recognized him. Teddy was just playing his role in the script of defending Dolores and her family, then was shocked when he realized his gunfire had no effect on Harris (as he had undoubtably been shocked countless times before with "newcomers" but didn't remember)
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Oct 3, 2016 17:41
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It's probably that they don't entirely understand their own technology and are imperfectly wiping the robots every time. Humans creating something they don't entirely understand then having to deal with the ramifications of that technology developing unprecedented complexity is a Crichton staple. That or it's being deliberately sabotaged by Hopkins, which is another Crichton goto.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:42
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Like how the warning about the active host in storage on the tablet towards the beginning was "Livestock Alert".
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Oct 3, 2016 17:43
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AwkwardKnob posted:One minor nitpick: If the robots have their memory banks wiped after every narrative/day is completed, it's a little bit of a stretch for me that the subconscious memory recall thing would reach all the way back to include every single past life they've had. If this feature had just been added, what on Earth would be the point of putting that much storage into the robots head. Like, imagine the terabytes of data that each day's collective experience would create every single time. You'd wipe all that poo poo clean each time, not leave it floating around in limbo and rewrite it endlessly for 30 years. Easiest answer is that their storage technology is such that having near-infinite storage available is trivial so it doesn't occur to anyone to limit things in that way.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:47
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MrMojok posted:I didn't really take it to mean that Teddy recognized him. Teddy was just playing his role in the script of defending Dolores and her family, then was shocked when he realized his gunfire had no effect on Harris (as he had undoubtably been shocked countless times before with "newcomers" but didn't remember) This is something I would like to discuss. Teddy actually fired on a human being. No other host has done that yet. Hell, even pointing a weapon at a human seems difficult for them, but Teddy blazed away on Ed Harris. The only time Teddy couldn't fire was when Ed forcibly placed the gun to his head. The crack shot albino, with the desperado that robbed the saloon, couldn't even bring her weapon to bear on the tin horn city slicker. After killing half the town. I'm wondering where the line is drawn.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:50
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theflyingexecutive posted:That or it's being deliberately sabotaged by Hopkins, which is another Crichton goto. It's this. The lead programmer whispered something to Old Pops as he was going into storage.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:52
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I don't think they'd have a system where hosts both couldn't kill and couldn't shoot at guests
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Oct 3, 2016 17:57
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I think Dolores is Anthony Hopkins daughter. And he has gone mad with guilt about something that Ed Harris knows.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:58
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theflyingexecutive posted:I don't think they'd have a system where hosts both couldn't kill and couldn't shoot at guests I'm guessing it's just a delay to allow untrained guests to get the first shot off and feel like a badass. Similar to how computer games have the AI do a reaction pose before firing.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:58
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whowhatwhere posted:e: Also I hope to god there's no military application subplot. I'd assume not because military applications would be good for shareholders and there's a split between the profit motive and what the upper management is aiming for. If there is, I can see it being an external thing, like Ed Harris being the "agent" sent in to either steal the technology or figure out how to provoke the hosts into attacking guests so the government can shut the place down and appropriate all the robuts.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:59
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withak posted:Easiest answer is that their storage technology is such that having near-infinite storage available is trivial so it doesn't occur to anyone to limit things in that way. I have a 16BG thumbdrive I use to transfer less than 1GB of data around. It is literally easier for me to get a drive with way more space than I need, than something of a more appropriate size. So, yeah totally agree that those robots could have stupidly big memories and memory "wipes" that just declare old data as normally inaccessible and flagged for possible, but not certain, overwrite.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:01
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Gorilla Salad posted:I'm guessing it's just a delay to allow untrained guests to get the first shot off and feel like a badass. Similar to how computer games have the AI do a reaction pose before firing. Teddy certainly didn't have a delay in the draw showdown with Ed. Your point stands. I thought the same thing.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:03
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omg this is out?
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Oct 3, 2016 18:07
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I'm guessing that eventually (and maybe as soon as after season 1), we won't be going back to West World itself and the sets will be all modern day. Maybe Season 1 ends with the bots getting into society.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:09
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Collateral posted:It's this. The lead programmer whispered something to Old Pops as he was going into storage. I'm pretty sure that was a shut down command and Jeffrey Wright isn't in on Hopkins's plan.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:12
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I hated the snobby writer guy, so the scene where the bandit dies before giving his grandiose speech was particularly rewarding  Also someone give Abernathy's actor an Emmy, he schooled goddamn Anthony Hopkins there.Show owns. Wishing Jonah the best on this, he deserves it.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:17
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The Dave posted:I'm guessing that eventually (and maybe as soon as after season 1), we won't be going back to West World itself and the sets will be all modern day. Maybe Season 1 ends with the bots getting into society. The sequel to Westworld, Futureworld, had that kind of plot; where Delos was cloning guests in order to try and replace rich and powerful people with these doubles that are programmed to be loyal to the company. That plot could be worked into a future season.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:23
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The Dave posted:I'm guessing that eventually (and maybe as soon as after season 1), we won't be going back to West World itself and the sets will be all modern day. Maybe Season 1 ends with the bots getting into society. To me, that definitely seems like a logical step for the show to take. What's up in the air is whether they get there on their own (escaping a la Blade Runner), or the company puts them there. Having your own little (huge) park in the middle of nowhere is nice, but breaking in to the domestic market and raking in the billions is where any company wants to be. Replacing hotel clerks and maids, retail employees, indeed replacing every single menial low skill employee with robots would make endless bank. Not to mention guilt-free personal slaves. To paraphrase Gilette - give them the robots, but sell them the repair plan. I'm guessing that might even have been the original plan but the "incident 30 years ago" left people incredibly wary of interacting with robots* and the company is still trying to mend fences by running Westworld - and they're probably doing it at a loss. A dozen or so people a day coming in by train, no matter how much they complain about the cost, does not seem a viable business plan if that's all the company is looking to do. * It would also explain why a seemingly huge chunk of the facility is now unused and unmaintained and the robot OSHA (robosha) lady is so incredibly paranoid and wields so much power.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:31
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Gorilla Salad posted:To me, that definitely seems like a logical step for the show to take. What's up in the air is whether they get there on their own (escaping a la Blade Runner), or the company puts them there. There is no way that is just cheaper than paying people minimum wage
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Oct 3, 2016 18:39
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Collateral posted:It's this. The lead programmer whispered something to Old Pops as he was going into storage. Either the lead programmer or his understudy is deliberately sabotaging the project in order to achieve some further objective, I agree.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:42
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:There is no way that is just cheaper than paying people minimum wage What is the "Lifespan" of a host?
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Oct 3, 2016 18:42
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AwkwardKnob posted:While watching, I sort of predicted-to-myself that the AI's would start showing signs of Rampancy due to that upgrade giving them access to a "subconscious" of their past experiences. My take was that it was done on purpose by Anthony Hopkins, however, as a sort of petri dish experiment to push their realism and AI qualities outside parameters. The way he talked about Humans having gotten as good as they're going to get pointed me in that direction, and I still felt that way when he gave his little light-hearted excuse about making an occasional mistake to his head programmer. Like, sure dude, you make mistakes all the time...? That takes forever, just Ctrl+A Delete and get them back out there. We're running behind! VendaGoat posted:This is something I would like to discuss. Later in the episode they even outright say that a host can't shoot at a guest.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:42
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:There is no way that is just cheaper than paying people minimum wage If you can buy the robot for <$150k, you make your money back in a decade? The ones they have seem pretty easily replaceable...
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Oct 3, 2016 19:02
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The singularity that kills humanity will probably be snuff porn androids that gain sentience.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:17
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:There is no way that is just cheaper than paying people minimum wage Maybe they don't have a minimum wage but a living wage in the Westworld universe, it is make believe after all.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:17
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Ain't no grave can hold my body down
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Oct 3, 2016 19:21
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:If you can buy the robot for <$150k, you make your money back in a decade? The ones they have seem pretty easily replaceable... This is already happening. They're now testing the burger-flipping robot which replaces three cooks.  quote:In the midst of a national wage debate, the former CEO of McDonald's raised some serious questions over whether this could be a sign of an impending robot invasion and consequent domination, according to ArsTechnica. Ed Rensi appeared on Mornings with Maria for Fox Business, expressing his concerns over an increase in the minimum wage and the introduction of robotic ordering systems into the restaurant industry.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:34
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On the news I just saw a pizza making robot (makes the dough, sauces it, waits for human to top it, puts it in and out of oven into box), and the company said by next year a robot will also completely replace the people needed that put the toppings on.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:40
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Even though the hosts aren't able to shoot humans I wonder if they could still harm them by inadvertently causing an explosion or dropping a safe on them. Seems impossible to prevent accidents (or "accidents") of that nature.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:50
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I feel like the summary of this show should be written as patch notes. Something about an NPC spawning infinite milk bottles because it accidentally went on a killing spree just seems so video game logic to me.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:51
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There is totally going to be a scene later on with Anthony Hopkins looking at stacks and stacks of horse paintings.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:56
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duz posted:Maybe they don't have a minimum wage but a living wage in the Westworld universe, it is make believe after all. Now you are just being crazy
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Oct 3, 2016 19:56
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Show is good. Oh wow I'm slow. I just realized the fly swat meant Delores was lying when she told those technicians that she would never hurt another living thing.
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Oct 3, 2016 20:22
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