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Armyman25 posted:Also, all that licensing and insurance, etc.. doesn't stop anyone from buying a car for cash, driving without a license, or driving under the influence even though they are barred from having a license or insurance. It's basically a really bad strawman argument, except you chose to make it for real.
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Oct 12, 2015 02:55
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Irony Be My Shield posted:This legitimately reads to me as a pro-gun control argument. I am struggling to see how you could fail to grasp the purpose of car licensing like this. Well, are we talking about registering the car or licensing the driver? Those are two separate things. But even all those laws requiring insurance, vehicle registration, licensing of drivers, and against driving while intoxicated don't stop people doing the opposite of all of them. The only people who do obey the law are the ones who would regardless, so they don't really help.
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Oct 12, 2015 02:59
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Yes the real problem with America is farmers. The problem is that their dumb fearful political opinions have way too much influence over our laws. You can call them farmers if you want though.
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Oct 12, 2015 02:59
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Armyman25 posted:I'm glad we're in agreement that laws banning guns won't work then. If only there were some aspect of government that were in charge of enforcing legislation… "Legislation Enforcement" Nah that's a mouthful. "Law Enforcement" Nah those guys are all dicks. "The A-Team" Now that's some good ol' American can do spirit there!
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Oct 12, 2015 03:00
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menino posted:The problem is that their dumb fearful political opinions have way too much influence over our laws. You can call them farmers if you want though.
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Oct 12, 2015 03:03
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Armyman25 posted:The only people who do obey the law are the ones who would regardless, so they don't really help. Dude…so you're saying the only role of government is the monopoly of force and that the legislature and the judiciary don't mean poo poo. The United States government is not designed that way and you have a very poor understanding of American law. I hope you just so happen not to be American because you're spouting ideology at odds with reality. edit: Also just lol at your idea of predestination. "These people are the criminals. Laws cannot stop them. These people are the law abiders. Laws are unnecessary." Middle ground is heresy!
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Oct 12, 2015 03:03
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Armyman25 posted:Well, are we talking about registering the car or licensing the driver? Those are two separate things. But even all those laws requiring insurance, vehicle registration, licensing of drivers, and against driving while intoxicated don't stop people doing the opposite of all of them.
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Oct 12, 2015 03:05
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RaySmuckles posted:Dude…so you're saying the only role of government is the monopoly of force and that the legislature and the judiciary don't mean poo poo. How else does the government get you to do anything?
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Oct 12, 2015 03:05
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Armyman25 posted:How else does the government get you to do anything? Voluntary compliance? An adult understanding of society that acknowledges there must be rules and traditions in place to prevent our wildest excesses? The government never forced me not to rape anyone, but it seems like the leash is the only thing holding you back, you sick gently caress.
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Oct 12, 2015 03:08
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RaySmuckles posted:An adult understanding of society that acknowledges there must be rules and traditions in place to prevent our wildest excesses?
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Oct 12, 2015 03:13
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Maybe the government could use its force... on the people who break laws 
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Oct 12, 2015 03:14
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RaySmuckles posted:Also lol to a "hunter" that needs a 50 round extended mag on a semi auto rifle. Good god this again? Hunting isn't in the picture. It has nothing to do with anything.
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Oct 12, 2015 03:17
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Have you met many Americans? Yeah, most of my ~urban~ friends are actually not chomping at the bit to indulge in wild crime sprees and agree with lots of laws. The ones we disagree with we use this crazy mechanism called "democracy" to try and change. Can't win em all though. SedanChair posted:Good god this again? Hunting isn't in the picture. It has nothing to do with anything. No, not that. Way to pick out the one sentence. You and Nintendo Kid are made for each other. NO JOKES ALLOWED! PERSONAL OPINIONS ARE INVALID UNLESS SUPPORTED BY THREE CREDIBLE SOURCES! Good try though. But no. Not that. Just sensible gun legislation that will help protect people. RaySmuckles fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 03:17
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RaySmuckles posted:No, not that. Way to pick out the one sentence. You and Nintendo Kid are made for each other. NO JOKES ALLOWED! PERSONAL OPINIONS ARE INVALID UNLESS SUPPORTED BY THREE CREDIBLE SOURCES! You just posted a stern rebuttal of a post with a picture of a horseback charge in it, and you're accusing me of not getting jokes?
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Oct 12, 2015 03:25
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menino posted:Ah yes the old "look at the people in this great country who just drive around on their own property" argument, trotted out by the .02% of people in this country who live like that.
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Oct 12, 2015 03:32
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RaySmuckles posted:Yeah, most of my ~urban~ friends Yeah I have "urban" friends too. In fact, I think SedanChair is urban and he is one of my best D&D buddies.
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Oct 12, 2015 03:32
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Effectronica posted:Okay. So I would have been completely justified in shooting him while he had the gun out, as he was not human during that time. What is the minimal level of physical threat necessary to deprive the threatened of humanity? Does threatening to poison someone rob someone of their humanity? If it does, does threatening to fire someone without any savings do so? If I have non-consensual sex with someone who has lost their humanity, is that rape, or bestiality? I know this is really hard to understand, but there is a profound difference between a guy who threatens to murder a restaurant full of people and a guy who kills that guy. I really can't make a complete set of hard rules for this as you seem to be probing me for, but at times like this we need to engage in the process of critical thinking. e: Or just let me refine my earlier definition so I can see where you go with this next. I originally said it is reasonably ok to shoot someone "When they make a credible threat to kill someone, hope this helps." I will add that if they are making a credible threat to kill someone who has just threatened to murder a restaurant full of people, then it is unreasonable to shoot them. Rahu fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 03:33
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Dead Reckoning posted:Most of the shooting in America is done on private property, and most of the rest already requires a license of some kind, so seems like a pretty good argument to me. That's funny because bullets travel, often far enough to leave people's property
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Oct 12, 2015 03:38
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menino posted:That's funny because bullets travel, often far enough to leave people's property
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Oct 12, 2015 03:50
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Armyman25 posted:I'm glad we're in agreement that laws banning guns won't work then. Then what possible problem can you have with them? What do you care if they're passed or not?
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Oct 12, 2015 04:00
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Is this a major problem where you live? Maybe google child killed by stray bullet. Or don't. Whatever.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:01
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People driving on suspended licenses kill 21000 a year. Where's the thread of outrage on that? https://www.aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/2011Unlicensed2Kill.pdf
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Oct 12, 2015 04:06
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Rahu posted:I know this is really hard to understand, but there is a profound difference between a guy who threatens to murder a restaurant full of people and a guy who kills that guy. I really can't make a complete set of hard rules for this as you seem to be probing me for, but at times like this we need to engage in the process of critical thinking. We're talking about whether someone is human. Don't change the subject. You decided to take up your cudgels against noisome nonsense like "criminals are actually still human", now you've gotta live with it.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:09
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Heh, you should look up the number of people who die due to drowning every year. Or even just pool accidents.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:10
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Armyman25 posted:People driving on suspended licenses kill 21000 a year. Why aren't you out there protesting the tyranny of government licensing and regulations right this very second?
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Oct 12, 2015 04:13
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-Troika- posted:Heh, you should look up the number of people who die due to drowning every year. Or even just pool accidents. Which have resulted in things like regulations for fencing. Good point.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:14
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Armyman25 posted:People driving on suspended licenses kill 21000 a year.  spoon0042 posted:Which have resulted in things like regulations for fencing. Good point. Signing that law in Florida haunts Jeb Bush to this day and was the basis for his "stuff happens" comment. Republicans fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 04:16
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Gun advocates are always extremely callous. Presumably, we are supposed to pretend that the correlation is meaningless, but I'll say that the damage clearly done to the human psyche by gun culture means that it is simply irresponsible to just let people have guns willy-nilly.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:16
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spoon0042 posted:Maybe google child killed by stray bullet. Or don't. Whatever. Across the whole U.S., about 500-600 people (of all ages) die of gunshots ruled accidental, per year. I'm not even going to pretend that I think that constitutes a compelling government interest worth surrendering our rights over, especially when better gun safety education could accomplish a similar goal.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:21
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Who What Now posted:Why aren't you out there protesting the tyranny of government licensing and regulations right this very second? Well, why are individuals allowed access to such dangerous murder devices like cars anyway? Surely a common sense solution would be a government monopoly on transportation. Only then could we ensure the quality of drivers.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:25
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Suggestion: You can have kids, or guns, but not both. You also need a waiting period between, with exceptions for unplanned pregnancies and such.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:25
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Dead Reckoning posted:Across the whole U.S., about 500-600 people (of all ages) die of gunshots ruled accidental, per year. I'm not even going to pretend that I think that constitutes a compelling government interest worth surrendering our rights over, especially when better gun safety education could accomplish a similar goal. Yeah, I know, not enough people are needlessly dying for you to care, you've made that very clear. Really I was just pointing out that it is a thing that happens. Now I'll wait over here for someone to find a case of someone throwing a knife through a wall and accidentally killing someone.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:27
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Armyman25 posted:Well, why are individuals allowed access to such dangerous murder devices like cars anyway? Public transportation is indeed better than private, agreed. Now why aren't you marching on Washington, gun in hand preferably, demanding the end of the DMV? If you think it's such a useless imposition upon your "rights" then why won't you nut and do something about it?
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Oct 12, 2015 04:28
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Armyman25 posted:Well, why are individuals allowed access to such dangerous murder devices like cars anyway? With computer-driven cars quickly becoming a thing this won't just be a dumb, facetious argument gun nuts make pretty soon.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:29
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Wow. Lol, you nut. Urban as in lives in a city. Since we were talking about rural idiosyncrasies driving gun policy I put the ~~ as a facetious way of bringing attention to that. Cuz you know, most people live in cities and the majority of gun violence also occurs in cities. Way to go right to race though. (idiots are the real racists) SedanChair posted:You just posted a stern rebuttal of a post with a picture of a horseback charge in it, and you're accusing me of not getting jokes? Stern rebuttal where I comedically gave a straight response to you claiming swords were more dangerous than guns? Parody, satire, dead-pan? But seriously, defend yourself from your reputation for a propensity for obtuseness. You might convince someone you're not the type to intentionally nit-pick while avoiding major points. Also, in my personal opinion, lol at anyone having an extended mag. Guns are for pussies and needing one that fires a tiny percent more bullets when it takes <5 sec to change a mag furthers my point. Seriously, argue about that firefight where you needed extra rounds in the mag. Rent-A-Cop posted:Is this a major problem where you live? I live in a city where the dangers of proximity are very real. So yeah, its a problem. (are you gonna argue this or does someone have to post an article about a person being struck by a stray bullet in their home. I'll bet there's one from this year and I bet you're not too lazy to google it yourself) Armyman25 posted:People driving on suspended licenses kill 21000 a year. You know "invalidly licensed" is part of their criteria for coming to that number. That means old people who shouldn't be driving. There're already numerous calls for legislation addressing this fact i.e. increased regulation (because it works you morons). My Grandpa stopped driving last year voluntarily. What!? Intentionally misleading information posted in D&D by someone who hopes another poster won't bother to take even a cursory look at the data? Well, I do declare!
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Oct 12, 2015 04:29
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spoon0042 posted:Yeah, I know, not enough people are needlessly dying for you to care, you've made that very clear. Ok, how many deaths per year constitutes a crisis worth defaulting to infringing on rights? Let's talk numbers.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:34
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When you look at how they cheer on the slaying of thieves but care not at all about people dying, it becomes sadly apparent gun owners value human life not at all, and only care about things.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:34
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RaySmuckles posted:Also, in my personal opinion, lol at anyone having an extended mag. Guns are for pussies and needing one that fires a tiny percent more bullets when it takes <5 sec to change a mag furthers my point. Seriously, argue about that firefight where you needed extra rounds in the mag. It's just fun to have a lot in there.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:35
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SedanChair posted:It's just fun to have a lot in there. Lol, you think a murder weapon is a toy and practicing murdering people is fun.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:37
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RaySmuckles posted:Lol, you think a murder weapon is a toy and practicing murdering people is fun. So do I but I'm too cheap to actually buy a gun and bullets so I just play video games.
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Oct 12, 2015 04:39
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