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Groggy nard posted:There is also the option of keeping eyes on with our drone and having our Convoy Strike package bugging the gently caress out and retasking elsewhere the exact instant we spot anything dangerous to said strike package. Vando posted:Small plan suggestion for anyone doing a more in-depth thing: it might be worth having the Tornadoes orbit in friendly airspace (hanging out with the tanker and its escorts ideally) with Tauruses loaded, then when the SA-20 battery radiates send the Reaper up high to try to get eyes on its position, then fire cruise missiles at that spot. Klaus and Pedersen has some inventory to move, but not until after this mission. They want to make sure we don't bomb a school or something.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:53
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Do you have any numbers on the payout reduction until we do some favors?
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Apr 24, 2017 19:59
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xthetenth posted:Do you have any numbers on the payout reduction until we do some favors? 30%
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Apr 24, 2017 20:06
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Operation Doodlebug SEAD Strike element 1x EA-6B Prowler armed with 1x HARM 1x Tornado armed with 2x HARM 1x Tornado armed with 2x GBU-24 SEAD Escort element 2x Gripen armed with 4x Meteor, 2x IRIS-T EA-6B engages OECM against the S-300 radar FROM ABOVE 30,000 FT HARM Tornado engages S-300 radar FROM ABOVE 30,000 FT Paveway Tornado engages Tunguska if spotted, otherwise S-300 radar FROM ABOVE 30,000 FT Escort element engages any aircraft that comes within 100nm of the SEAD Strike element CAP element 6x Gripen armed with 4x Meteor, 2x IRIS-T Three pairs of Gripens are distributed just behind the front line, nearest two pairs engage ingressing aircraft. No CAP aircraft are to engage aircraft beyond 80nm north of the front line CAS element 8x Phantom, armed with 2x GBU-24, 2x AIM-120B 2x Frogfoot, armed with 16x Vikhr, 2x R-60 2x Hawk 209, armed with 2x Maverick, 2x AIM-9L Aircraft provide close air support, prioritising harder targets first. All aircraft are to quick re-arm Once Bulgarians are significantly weakened, CAS forces are to retask to find and kill the diamond convoy. Support element 1x KC-135 tanker 1x VC.10 tanker 1x Saab 340 Erieye KC-135 and VC.10 are to remain 80nm behind the front line, to provide refuelling to CAP and returning CAS aircraft. 340 Erieye is to remain 50nm behind the front line to provide radar support to CAP Tell me what I've made a balls of and what fixes should be made to fix it. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 20:10
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Quinntan could we send the sk60's as wel to clean any straglers left? I do like the look of this plan though.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:18
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Quinntan posted:Operation Doodlebug HARMs aren't effective enough against this target without saturating it, which we can't do. We have to use cruise missiles and terrain following/pop-up, anything else is likely 'you miss, you die' at the ranges we'd be talking about. Hell it might even just be 'you die, then you miss'.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:42
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For those folks who are a bit unsure on mechanics, the jamming aircraft flying alongside the SEAD package also means that the odds are, in an attempt to intercept our missiles, the SAMs being targeted will still have to burn through ECM, and try to visually acquire the incoming anti radar missiles  Good suggestion with the high altitude release too Quinntan. It makes a huge difference for our missiles kinematics, as I'm sure you know.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:42
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Dandywalken posted:For those folks who are a bit unsure on mechanics, the jamming aircraft flying alongside the SEAD package also means that the odds are, in an attempt to intercept our missiles, the SAMs being targeted will still have to burn through ECM, and try to visually acquire the incoming anti radar missiles Not just that, but they should also be above the flight ceiling of the Tunguska's missiles at that altitude.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:43
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I'm also not extremely optimistic on getting the Prowler all that way into bad guy country without getting shot down by some wiseguy in an F-16.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:47
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Only concern on my end then would be the saturation issue for the SAM. Anyone able to test if the HARMs coming in along the axis of the jamming aircraft will be enough to catch their radar off guard so it will be unable to target the missiles that are suddenly appearing dangerously close? How many would we need? Lol imagine two jammer aircraft escorting the HARM slingers and Taurus carriers in two separate packages at totally different headings. That'd be loving wild. Shame we don't have the airframe count to do it.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:49
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Vando posted:I'm also not extremely optimistic on getting the Prowler all that way into bad guy country without getting shot down by some wiseguy in an F-16. That's a good point, we should absolutely have plans in the event of incoming bandits. This is going to require some micromanaging as the situation develops. The CAP flight especially. Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 20:51
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I don't know why we would choose to put some of our most valuable (both cost- and availability-wise) aircraft in a very dangerous situation when we have the capability to outrange the enemy with a precision strike (yes I know it's because 'that's easy mode' but then maybe this can demonstrate why future missions may need 'oh someone lost the key to the Taurus cupboard you can't use them on this mission' caveats  )
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Apr 24, 2017 20:55
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The inbound F-16s would have the same issue as the S-300, they're getting jammed too. And that's why there's an escorting pair of Gripens, to help protect that SEAD package. EDIT Vando posted:I don't know why we would choose to put some of our most valuable (both cost- and availability-wise) aircraft in a very dangerous situation when we have the capability to outrange the enemy with a precision strike (yes I know it's because 'that's easy mode' but then maybe this can demonstrate why future missions may need 'oh someone lost the key to the Taurus cupboard you can't use them on this mission' caveats I'm afraid that if we just lob KEPD 350s at long range that they'll be intercepted by the Tunguska. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 20:56
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Oh I'm absolutely on board for easy mode when double digit SAMs are involved :P But could the Taurus reliably make it to target?
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Apr 24, 2017 20:56
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Do we have numbers on how many targets a Prowler can effectively handle? And it only takes one chucklefuck to fire off an AMRAAM in the right general direction for us to get a nice lesson about it's fancy home-on-jam capabilities.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:58
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Dandywalken posted:Oh I'm absolutely on board for easy mode when double digit SAMs are involved :P It terrain follows at ~50m at 0.9 Mach, I'm fairly confident. Plus worst case is it doesn't work and we learn something about its capability, worst case in the Prowler Dance scenario is we lose a bunch of poo poo.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:00
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Vando posted:Do we have numbers on how many targets a Prowler can effectively handle? And it only takes one chucklefuck to fire off an AMRAAM in the right general direction for us to get a nice lesson about it's fancy home-on-jam capabilities. That depends on the AMRAAM. As and Bs can't home-on-jam, and even if they're Cs, our Gripens still outrange them.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:01
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Note: this is still very rough, but I thought I would put this out there for discussion. Given the deployment of F-16s, the Russian-made Angolan fighters, and and the Sultan's Fist to our AO, we are going to need a very stiff CAP. All our Gripens will have to be doing that work, while our Phantoms and light strikers do the CAS job. I think it's worth trying to hit the diamond truck with a cruise missile (assuming this is viable). The Taurses have a 180 nautical mile range, so we don't even need to cross the border to make the hit.  Operation Black Diamond  Relevant distances, key bases, etc.  The plan. Note: some assets (Argus, Sperwer) are not marked. Objectives: 1. Provide CAS for 3rd, 5th, and 19th Regiments. Destroy Bulgarians armor, mechanized infantry, and SPAA 2. Destroy Diamond truck. 3. Destroy Angolan Air Force and Sultan's Fist aircraft. ROE and Flight Restrictions 1. Do NOT cross into the area tinted red. This is a No-Fly Zone. There is a small area north of the border CAS aircraft can enter. 2. Ground engagement zone for all AS aircraft is the area marked "Bulgarian." Do not engage any targets outside of this area. Note: Phantoms may fire on air targets outside this area. 3. All military vehicles and aircraft north of the border are hostile. Shoot on sight. 4. Fire if fired upon. 5. Fire on anything shooting friendlies. EMCON 1. S 100B Argus: radar on. 2. Fighters: radars off unless the S 100B has IDed a target for you, you've passed the ROE checks and and you are trying to get a firing solution. 3. All aircraft: jammers off unless enemy radars are detected. General Timeline of Operations 1. MQ-9 Reaper with Gorgon Stare Pod launches and pre-positions self out of SAM range of the border. Sperwers launch, timed to get to the front lines there 30 minutes before the Phantoms reach their WRP. 2. Gripen WESTCAP and EASTCAP launch with tanker support and the Argus AEW&C. Head to assigned patrol areas. 3. Growler launches, heads to assigned jamming area. Engage any radar with HARMs. 4. MQ-9 moves north at max altitude, begins spotting Bulgarian forces (especially SPAA), the truck, and ideally the S-300 battery. 5. Tornadoes, F-4 Phantoms, SU-25s, Hawks, and SK60s take off - in that order and head to the target. 6. Sperwers reach their recon areas and start ID'ing targets. 7. Tornadoes move to WRP. One aircraft fires Taurus missiles at truck. Other holds them in reserve. If truck not destroyed, it fires. If truck destroyed, it targets the S-300 battery. If no S-300 battery spotted, it hits the most valuable target of opportunity. Once all cruise missile fired, RTB to re-arm with Paveways. 8. Phantoms hit the Bulgarians from high-altitude, focusing on hitting their MANPADS, SAMS, and SPAA. Once targets killed, they orbit 50nm south of the border as High CAP. DO NOT MAKE STRIKES IF THE PROWLER IS NOT JAMMING FOR THEM DURING THEIR ATTACKs. IF THE S-300 IS STILL ACTIVE AND ENGAGING OUR AIRCRAFT, SCRUB THE STRIKES ON THE BULGQRIANS -- HIT TARGETS IN THE WEST INSTEAD. 9. Only once air defenses are cleared -- light strikers make low-level CAS attack in this order. Hawks --> Su-25 --> SK60. DO NOT MAKE STRIKES IF THE PROWLER IS NOT JAMMING FOR THEM. 10. Light strikers egress and RTB to rearm. Once all strikers have egressed, Phantoms follow them out, covering their tail as they all RTB. 11. Phantoms, Tornadoes, and light strikers RTB, Quick Turnaround and continue making strikes as long as possible. Only attempt more strikes if we have air superiority and have destroyed Bulgarian SHORAD. DO NOT MAKE STRIKES IF THE PROWLER IS NOT JAMMING FOR THEM. 12. Keep CAP, tankers and ARGUs up until all strikes are finished. NOTE: USE TANKER ONLY WHEN 10% OF FUEL REMAINS. SEAD Intruder One EA-6B Prowler, with: -the AGM-88C HARM, Short-Range loadout (1 HARM, four jammers). Mission 1) Provide jamming support for the ground attack missions, from 30,000+ feet. Fire the HARM at any SAM radars that threaten the strikers. 2) Evade any enemy air threats.l 3) Do NOT cross the border or overfly an enemy AAA or SAMs to fire your HARM. Truck Killer Mack Flight Two Tornado IDS, each with: -Two Taurus KEPD 350P cruise missiles, a BO-101 Chaff/Flare pod, a Cerberus IV DECM pod and two IRIS-T missiles. Mission: 1) Fire two missiles at the Diamond truck. If target not destroyed in first volley, fire again. 2) If truck is destroyed, hit targets of opportunity. Prioritize S-300 --> other AA --> other ground targets. 3) If all air defenses are destroyed and the truck is killed, RTB and re-arm with 2000lb Paveway to do CAS work. Close Air Support Hammer Flight Eight F-4 Phantoms, each with: -Two GBU-24A 2,000lb laser-guided bombs, two AIM-120 AMRAAMs, a Litening targeting pod, and a AN/ALQ-119 jamming pod. Mission: 1) Destroy Bulgarian ground forces from 30,000+ feet, focusing on SPAA, SAMs, and AAA. If these are destroyed, focus on Armor --> Mech Infantry --> Infantry. 2) Provide High CAP during the light striker's attacks. 3) RTB, Quick Turnaround, re-arm and make another attack. Do not attempt a second attack unless we still have superiority. Frogger Flight Two Su-25 Frogfoot A, each with: -Sixteen AT-16 Scallion (9K121 Vikhr) anti-tank missiles* and two AA-8 Aphid air-to-air missiles. [*note: may replace these with KAB 500 laser-guided bombs] Mission: 1) Destroy the Bulgarian ground forces at maximum engagement altitude,, focusing on AA --> tanks --> mech infantry --> infantry. 2) RTB, Quick Turnaround, re-arm and make another attack. Do not attempt a second attack unless we still have superiority. Peregrine Flight Two Hawk 209, each with -Two AGM-65G Maverick anti-tank missiles, two AIM-9P Sidewinder Mission: 1) Destroy the Bulgarian ground forces at maximum engagement altitude, focusing on AA --> tanks --> mech infantry --> infantry. 2) RTB, Quick Turnaround, re-arm and make another attack. Do not attempt a second attack unless we still have superiority. Six SK60B, each with: -Twelve M/70 135mm rockets. Mission: 1) Destroy the Bulgarian ground forces, focusing on AA --> tanks --> mech infantry --> infantry. Only enter the area if all AA threats are cleared and no enemy fighters threaten you. Otherwise, RTB and abort. 2) RTB, Quick Turnaround, re-arm and make another attack. Do not attempt a second attack unless we still have superiority. UAVs Meat One MQ-9 Reaper, with: -Two Gorgon Stare IR/EO pods Mission: 1) Locate Bulgarian ground forces, AA assets, and the diamond trucks 2) Only if safe, help buddy-lase ground targets for the F-4Es. Sperwer 3 One Sperwer UAV, with: -Internal EO/IR sensors. 1) Locate Bulgarian ground forces. Orbit behind the 3rd Regiment in the West, stay 30nm south of enemy ground forces. Operate at maximum altitude (appx. 10,000 feet AGL) Sperwer 19 One Sperwer UAV, with: -Internal EO/IR sensors. Mission: 1) Locate Bulgarian ground forces. Orbit behind the 19th Regiment in the East, stay 30nm south of enemy ground forces. Operate at maximum altitude (appx. 10,000 feet AGL) Air Superiority WEST CAP Flight Four JAS 39C Gripens, each with: A/A: Meteor, Max Intercept (Two IRIS-T missiles, four Meteor missiles) Mission: 1) Orbit Point WESTCAP. Only engage air targets in the West. EAST CAP Flight Four JAS 39C Gripens, each with: A/A: Meteor, Max Intercept (Two IRIS-T missiles, four Meteor missiles) Mission: 1) Orbit Point EASTCAP. Only Engage targets in the East. AEW&C Watchtower One S 100B Argus Mission: 1) Orbit south of the border, provide AEW&C for all aircraft. Tanker Big Pig One KC-135R Stratoanker Mission: 1) Hold at the Western fuel point, fuel all aircraft that need gas. Little Pig One VC-10 Mission: 2) Hold at the Western fuel point, fuel all aircraft that need gas. NOTE: USE TANKER ONLY WHEN 10% OF FUEL REMAINS. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 21:07
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I don't think a single HARM will be sufficient for the S-300 
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Apr 24, 2017 21:13
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Dandywalken posted:I don't think a single HARM will be sufficient for the S-300 I'm pretty sure the idea of that proposal is that we don't actually have to kill the S-300 to accomplish mission objectives you fling the HARM at a SAM radar that lights up so that it has to shut down and you just gave whoever got launched on a better chance of survival, its definitely more a backup than a plan
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Apr 24, 2017 21:16
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That's an interesting alternative then. Just so long as we can keep everything outside it's reach.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:17
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Dandywalken posted:I don't think a single HARM will be sufficient for the S-300 Hence why we have the Tauruses ready to go after it (ideally, it's radars) as well. I suppose we could task another Tornado to do SEAD work, but after the abysmal performance of the SEAD Tornado last time, I'm skeptical.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:18
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Can we get a bit more info about the situation on the flanks? Are they just holding position right now?
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Apr 24, 2017 21:18
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Bacarruda posted:Hence why we have the Tauruses ready to go after it (ideally, it's radars) as well. The SEAD Tornado last time was looking for an S-300 that had knocked its radar out, hence that omnishambles.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:21
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The S-300 is our biggest threat in the theater and thus, when identified we should tell both the Count's men and the Free state about it's location. Hopefully, we can get some form of a concrete plan to deal with it permanently. If our ground assets can't ambush the diamond convoy, we should tell the Free Staters about the diamonds.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:24
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Dandywalken posted:That's an interesting alternative then. Just so long as we can keep everything outside it's reach. I feel like its the smarter idea in general. Taking out the S-300 is the work of a dedicated mission. Without even knowing where it is already a plan that just avoids enemy airspace to succeed is a lot safer and hopefully we'll have better intel or more SEAD assets later. alternatively we just keep smashing the dictator's ground forces and bypass it because it has to keep relocating to stay at a safe distance from ground forces or artillery
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Apr 24, 2017 21:27
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I like the idea of not taking out the diamond convoy, because gently caress deBeers. That said, we should give nice big KEPD made craters to everything we can because of the range advantage in terms of our A2G munitions.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:31
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Could we shift the target prioritisation for the Tauruses to have the S-300 as the primary target? Then if x amount of time passes (or rather x amount of time remains in the mission) without getting a good look at its position we let fly on the diamonds instead. I feel like the S-300 is a big deal for our ability to conduct future missions so if we can get a solid location, we should take the shot when we have the chance.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:33
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Yvonmukluk posted:Can we get a bit more info about the situation on the flanks? Are they just holding position right now? The East and West are both active but any gains made by either side will be small in comparison to the potential hole created by the Bulgarian Brothers.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:38
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If we pass up the opportunity to wreck the diamonds now, are we stuck with -30% pay penalty for a while? We should consider that not blowing up the diamonds when we have the chance might mean reduced payout for longer than just this mission.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:43
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glynnenstein posted:If we pass up the opportunity to wreck the diamonds now, are we stuck with -30% pay penalty for a while? Reduced pay, and it seems like a golden opportunity to smooth things over with a major American corporation, which is probably a good thing in the long run for networking and reputation purposes. Gotta make the best of our loose cannon I guess.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:46
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Let's just blow up the diamonds, if we want to cultivate agood reputation and contacts. Also, we need the money and goodwill generated by this. Edit: What Sniper said.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:48
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Yooper posted:The East and West are both active but any gains made by either side will be small in comparison to the potential hole created by the Bulgarian Brothers. And presumably if we smash them up enough, we'd be able to make a large counterattack? Maybe we should keep an eye out for their depots, if our groundpounders could overrun and capture all that materiel... Seems like we should just focus upon the central front/diamond convoy, in that case. Maybe send our CAP birds to hit targets of opportunity in the West if they run out of stuff to do in the central front, but that's about it. COuld we maybe send in our Sperwers to act as eyes in the sky for the ground troops? Would that information be helpful to them?
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Apr 24, 2017 21:49
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Id like to do central front / diamonds / s300, but Im not sure what that plan would look like. Ill prolly throw something disastrous together later tonite.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:51
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Yvonmukluk posted:And presumably if we smash them up enough, we'd be able to make a large counterattack? Yes, if we thrash the Bulgarians bad enough the ground troops could advance further. But Von Hoff's forces lack a great deal of mobility. The heaviest armored vehicle they have is a 1984 Chevy Luv truck with a rock strapped to the front. This isn't Guderian's Panzer Corps but a rag tag, mostly worn out, but very eager, armed militia. There will definitely be depots or forward operating bases, theirs and ours. Blowing them up would be helpful as would not having ours blown up. Because the drones are so slow I don't have any issues starting the scenario with them in, or near, position.
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Apr 24, 2017 22:01
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Hitting the diamonds is, like, the polar opposite of destroying capitalism and therefore A Bad Thing.
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Apr 24, 2017 22:04
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Crazycryodude posted:Hitting the diamonds is, like, the polar opposite of destroying capitalism and therefore A Bad Thing. We can attack De Beers later if you want.
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Apr 24, 2017 22:04
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Loel posted:We can attack De Beers later if you want. I'm listening
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Apr 24, 2017 22:25
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Yooper posted:Yes, if we thrash the Bulgarians bad enough the ground troops could advance further. But Von Hoff's forces lack a great deal of mobility. The heaviest armored vehicle they have is a 1984 Chevy Luv truck with a rock strapped to the front. This isn't Guderian's Panzer Corps but a rag tag, mostly worn out, but very eager, armed militia. We should also probably keep an eye out for enemy CAS.
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Apr 24, 2017 22:24
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Yooper, what's the expected weather like? Since so much of our current fleet is heavy on laser-guided bombs, that really has a big effect on planning.Yooper posted:Agreed. Psawhn's post on patrol areas was awesome. The game has lots of little nuances that if you guys know it are very helpful. Such as patrol area and prosecution. In the future I'll be defining these even if you guys don't mention it. I can read between the lines and see you want a patrol on the border for example and not to have our Gripens chase a Cessna into the Congo. To try and sharpen things up I'll be adding lots of contingency missions, for example a CAP for exfiltrating bombers to help others get out and the such. Okay, I'll give more in-character briefings in the future if I'm doing heavier number crunching. I'm afraid I don't have too many more insights on the other mission types. The only other mission type worth worrying about are strike missions, and I don't use those. I tend to use manual strikes, setting my own specific waypoints and Shift-F1 manually allocating bombs to targets. I guess there's also a "support" mission type, but uh... "Support missions have aircraft patrol along their waypoints. They're best used for tanker patrols and AEW patrols. You can assign fighters and bombers to them as a "staging" mission, letting them loiter and rendezvous at the support mission then switching their mission to the specific strike or patrol mission when you're ready."  Bacarruda posted:Taurus KEPD 350P Cruise Missile Yeah, I'm sorry it's taken me this long to fall into your line of thinking. By now I'm wishing I eeked out enough money to squeeze out two more Tornados. Renaissance Spam posted:I'm in favour of focusing on our primary mission; supporting the 3rd, 5th and 19th regiments against the Bulgarians and going after the diamonds should the opportunity arise. 2. Taking out the S-300 needs to be a dedicated package. We need the Prowler to even get our planes in weapons range. We need at least one Tornado in addition to the Prowler to send in some HARMs and soak up some of its missiles. Then we need two Gripens loaded with 16 SDBs because we need all of them to punch through its final layer of defense. 3. If we've taken out all of the high-threat anti-air and air combat, then our Frogfoots loaded up with Vikhrs are pretty good. Sixteen ATGMs each lets them do a lot of CAS. Dandywalken posted:For those folks who are a bit unsure on mechanics, the jamming aircraft flying alongside the SEAD package also means that the odds are, in an attempt to intercept our missiles, the SAMs being targeted will still have to burn through ECM, and try to visually acquire the incoming anti radar missiles Unfortunately, the antiradiation missiles are really fast, so they'll quickly outrun the effective zone of our jamming signal and closer to the fire control radar. They'll get close enough to the radar that it'll overpower the jamming in time to shoot them down. It's easier for the Prowler to keep up with glide bombs... but that means we're having our Prowler dive straight towards a super-scary SAM site while surrounded by over a dozen glide bombs. That does sound metal as hell, though...  Bacarruda posted:Hence why we have the Tauruses ready to go after it (ideally, it's radars) as well. Quinntan posted:The SEAD Tornado last time was looking for an S-300 that had knocked its radar out, hence that omnishambles. Tauruses will get shot down by the S-300 unless we catch them with their pants down and radar off. It still takes too long between the cruise missile popping over the horizon and hitting its target.
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Apr 24, 2017 22:26
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