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Dehtraen posted:Lost Legacy naming Chandra, Flamecaller Tirelessly track, apparently Also, Dude Who Hasn't Played for Twenty Years, play Draft.
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May 14, 2017 16:43
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suicidesteve posted:Ban modern. Ban the reserved list. Ban Deathrite. Ban Gitaxian Probe. Ban True-Name. Unban Top. Magic is good again. you forgot to ban entreat, go back to start, do not collect 200 dollars.
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May 14, 2017 16:50
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Dehtraen posted:Lost Legacy naming Chandra, Flamecaller  mandatory lesbian posted:you forgot to ban entreat, go back to start, do not collect 200 dollars. You want to ban the card that takes 3 seconds to end the game? Wasn't the fake reason WotC gave for banning Top that it wasted too much time?
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May 14, 2017 16:56
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Just for funsies - I played during Combo Winter (a couple years after Ice Age) and picked the game back up again with Theros.Bulky Bartokomous posted:2) Magic works better as a computer game than a table top game. There's so many counters and technical triggered timing effects and reshuffling that playing with physical cards seems like it would take forever, keeping track of all the counters would be burdensome and playing by the rules would be a challenge (ie, it must be very easy to cheat compared to my day). I don't mean to do the joke where we all dunk on a game that we all play and enjoy, but honestly neither are perfect. There are a shitton of rules and interactions that MODO handles (for the most part) very well, but manually handling priority and the number of unintuitive design things in the program that are a result of needing to reflect the paper game make it less than awesome. Keeping track of rules is a giant pain, though - see the giant discussion about rules enforcement that happened a few pages ago. Bulky Bartokomous posted:4) Even though there's so much new in the game, there really isn't as much choice in deck building. I hope I'm wrong on this but it seems like deck design is so specific and focused on particular, complex card interactions there really isn't much room to tweak or personalize. Back when I played, the web was barely a thing, and other than AOL groups and Usenet groups, there wasn't anywhere to go to look up deck designs. It was more about finding nice synergies between cards than building something as precise as say, a Dredge deck. You might not make the pro tour, but you could at least be competitive. For example, Ray of Command and Swords to Plowshares are solid on their own and also work really well together. It's a nice synergy, so that was something I would incorporate into my deck because it had a lot of utility and matched the colors of the deck i was building. Maybe that kind of appreciation for utility rather than creating some specific end state lives on in the limited formats? I should check them out, I only ever played constructed. You're tilting at a number of things here. You say that the current focus on particular card interactions crushes deck flexibility, but also say that back in the day it was about finding nice synergies. I'm not blaming you for this, but I think there are a couple underlying issues here. First, the massive card pool of vintage (you are playing Vintage, right? I think I saw that somewhere in the thread) lends itself to combo or pseudo combo. Cards interacting in extremely powerful ways is difficult to predict when the cards were printed 20 years apart. That being said, there are still a number of goodstuff decks, even in the old formats. Delver decks are definitely A Thing and that isn't much more complicated than efficient creatures + control pieces. Legacy Jund is another goodstuff deck. Creature removal, card advantage, efficient creatures. Add a manabase and you have a deck even though there aren't any particular synergies that crack the game in half. I think what rankles you here is the flattening effect the internet (and the top end of players being more in the spotlight) has had on the game, where there's less perceived variation in the optimal deck build. The thing is, the most optimal deck has always existed, it's just that you didn't know about it back in the Ice Age days. Or, equally as likely, no one knew about it because there was way less of a financial incentives for a dozen people to sit in a house for a week and grind out the format to figure out the most optimized 75. To some degree that's all inevitable if you're playing against a random set of people. If you want to play a more creative game, yeah, you'll be better off finding a local playgroup who's willing to commit to not poke around online for their poo poo. Limited is also amazing, and while there is a problem with influence from the top down - whatever Limited Resources has to say probably has an outsize effect on how people evaluate cards - it's minimized somewhat by the fact that limited is a self correcting format. Play more limited (this is good advice for literally everyone).
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May 14, 2017 16:58
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Hey, I admitted he did stuff and then won! Did we ever see Mardu on coverage at all this weekend?
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May 14, 2017 17:00
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suicidesteve posted:You want to ban the card that takes 3 seconds to end the game? Wasn't the fake reason WotC gave for banning Top that it wasted too much time? i just remember you going on about how banning top was bad and it should have been entreat instead, are you no longer of that opinion
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May 14, 2017 17:04
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:2) Magic works better as a computer game than a table top game. There's so many counters and technical triggered timing effects and reshuffling that playing with physical cards seems like it would take forever, keeping track of all the counters would be burdensome and playing by the rules would be a challenge (ie, it must be very easy to cheat compared to my day). Also "exile" is just rules-speak for "remove from the game" and that's been in the game literally forever.
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May 14, 2017 17:07
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mandatory lesbian posted:i just remember you going on about how banning top was bad and it should have been entreat instead, are you no longer of that opinion He wanted Terminus banned, not Entreat
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May 14, 2017 17:09
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mandatory lesbian posted:i just remember you going on about how banning top was bad and it should have been entreat instead, are you no longer of that opinion Terminus. Banning Entreat would have made absolutely no sense. And yes, even moreso after playing some of the awful new format. It's been exactly what I was afraid it would become. At least on MTGO because like I said legacy FNM hasn't fired since the banning!
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May 14, 2017 17:13
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:2) Magic works better as a computer game than a table top game. There's so many counters and technical triggered timing effects and reshuffling that playing with physical cards seems like it would take forever, keeping track of all the counters would be burdensome and playing by the rules would be a challenge (ie, it must be very easy to cheat compared to my day). Both of these are definitely because you're playing vintage. Even in legacy, you're much more able to play decks that are just piles of good cards that try to gain an advantage by making good trades. In vintage, decks are capable of digging really quickly for whatever win condition, and a good chunk of your deck is taken up by amazing must-play cards from the restricted list. Also, that ray of command thing doesn't feel great. You're spending 5 mana and 2 cards to kill their creature and gain some life, when you could have just spent 1 mana to swords their guy. You'd need to get a good deal of value out of blocking with the stolen creature, but vintage isn't really a format when your combat tricks get a lot of utility. It just feels like you're putting yourself down on mana, and down on cards in almost every single case. Ray of command is also not a great card in isolation, when, in vintage, you could be spending 4 mana on jace the mind sculptor instead.
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May 14, 2017 17:14
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suicidesteve posted:Terminus. Banning Entreat would have made absolutely no sense. And yes, even moreso after playing some of the awful new format. It's been exactly what I was afraid it would become. At least on MTGO because like I said legacy FNM hasn't fired since the banning! oh lol, my bad for misremembering!
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May 14, 2017 17:20
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GoutPatrol posted:still win? It really is lame as gently caress. Emrakul wasn't really the problem. It had always been marvel. Edit: really Emrakul was also a problem. Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 17:42 on May 14, 2017 |
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May 14, 2017 17:38
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Sickening posted:That is very hard to believe. How can one of largest cities int he united states have so little modern support? It's on other days at many shops. Just not FNM.
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May 14, 2017 17:51
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Marvel is not that bad guys geez The PT top 8 is not the whole story of a format. Mardu, Zombies and Marvel are all good, a three-deck format is fine, and there are a number of tier 1.5-2 decks that are perfectly viable options that can win a lot of games. Standard is good.
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May 14, 2017 18:02
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Four-deck, you forgot TEMUR TOWER 
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May 14, 2017 18:11
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2 marvel decks down. Good gently caress that card.
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May 14, 2017 18:12
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Count Bleck posted:Four-deck, you forgot TEMUR TOWER Why would you Tower though? Mardu is still going to be a very solid deck. Since it has been the dominating force for some time it probably received a lot of hate from everyone's board. The zombie engine does seem like it could go toe-to-toe with its planeswalker / oath game 2 plan though.
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May 14, 2017 18:14
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DangerDongs posted:Why would you Tower though? I don't know, ask Wizards.
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May 14, 2017 18:14
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Count Bleck posted:Four-deck, you forgot TEMUR TOWER how silly of me it's a veritable
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May 14, 2017 18:17
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6 loving rib commercials. Going to find a computer to plugin to my TV just so I don't have to use the ps4 app.
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May 14, 2017 18:21
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not being able to watch this with adblock sounds terrible, tbh
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May 14, 2017 18:22
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Just went to make some food and came back to that annoying goblin WotC mouth-piece Maro talking. I'd rather watch a rib advert 10 times over TBH
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May 14, 2017 18:28
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Maro is loving hard to listen to.
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May 14, 2017 18:31
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Wizards sucks at all things non-card
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May 14, 2017 18:32
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They're not too great at that part lately.
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May 14, 2017 18:33
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Aren't they going to announce the new set name at this event? Or am I thinking another event.
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May 14, 2017 18:42
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I don't understand how they can't watch a, SCG stream and just go "hey let's do that, people like it" I would much rather watch timeshifted games than any of this filler shite
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May 14, 2017 18:43
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Errant Gin Monks posted:2 marvel decks down. Good gently caress that card. Seriously, gently caress Marvel and gently caress WotC for thinking that grindy value bullshit is preferable to a real control deck existing. e: Sorry, anything with reactive answers in the form of counterspells and/or removal should be referred to as the dreaded "draw-go control" prison deck. ThePeavstenator fucked around with this message at 18:48 on May 14, 2017 |
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May 14, 2017 18:44
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ThePeavstenator posted:Seriously, gently caress Marvel and gently caress WotC for thinking that grindy value bullshit is preferable to a real control deck existing. They would 100% call Marvel combo and clamp down on that angle
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May 14, 2017 18:53
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Count Bleck posted:Aren't they going to announce the new set name at this event? Or am I thinking another event. They did a few weeks ago. Ixalan, I think.
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May 14, 2017 18:55
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ThePeavstenator posted:Seriously, gently caress Marvel and gently caress WotC for thinking that grindy value bullshit is preferable to a real control deck existing.
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May 14, 2017 18:56
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Dr. Stab posted:Both of these are definitely because you're playing vintage. Even in legacy, you're much more able to play decks that are just piles of good cards that try to gain an advantage by making good trades. In vintage, decks are capable of digging really quickly for whatever win condition, and a good chunk of your deck is taken up by amazing must-play cards from the restricted list. I did tweak the deck so I could play legacy and that helps. I just hate that I can't have my Sol Ring and Balance  I guess what i was getting at was back in the day, Ray of Command and Swords was a cool combo because you got to abuse someone's creature for a turn and then get the life from it. Now it seems like because they aren't designed to trigger 4 other effects that deal 4 damage to your opponent, let you discard your hand and drawn a new one and create 4x 1/1 token creatures are actually are actually 4/4 because of another triggered effect, it isn't effective. I feel like I'm trying to play checkers and everyone else is playing chess. And it feels that way because that is basically what is actually happening. E: And I'm not complaining about it, just observing and trying to figure things out as I go.
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May 14, 2017 18:56
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:I did tweak the deck so I could play legacy and that helps. I just hate that I can't have my Sol Ring and Balance You should go look up comparable vintage decks so you can see the ones that still work more along the lines of what you want. StP is still a good card, Ray of Command isn't outside of draft in the formats in which its legal because it costs 4.
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May 14, 2017 18:58
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I like how they talked for 10 minutes about Martin getting an Ulamog when the third one was in his hand the entire time and they didn't notice. Pay attention guys. This mirror right here is why marvel.is such a stupid loving card. JUST SPIN IT UNTIL YOU HIT AN ULAMOG AND YOU WIN!!! YYAAAAYYYY Edit: I'm just turning this garbage off and getting ready to watch the Spurs play. Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 14, 2017 |
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May 14, 2017 19:01
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:I feel like I'm trying to play checkers and everyone else is playing chess. And it feels that way because that is basically what is actually happening.
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May 14, 2017 19:07
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:I did tweak the deck so I could play legacy and that helps. I just hate that I can't have my Sol Ring and Balance swordsing the dude you ray of commanded was rarely a good play even back in the day because life total is generally pretty irrelevant and losing a card isn't
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May 14, 2017 19:15
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Siivola posted:Maybe I'm just really timid, but taking a reactive deck to the first big tournament of a shook-up format seems like a really bad idea? Plenty of pro tours had a decent portion of the field playing control like Esper Dragons. Playing reactive decks isn't any more inherently risky than playing a deck that has a gameplan that turns out to match up poorly against the rest to the field.
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May 14, 2017 19:19
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This semifinal has been kinda painful to watch.
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May 14, 2017 19:42
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Gerry casting Grasp of Darkness on a 4/5 lol
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May 14, 2017 20:06
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Stormgale posted:This Fixed.
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May 14, 2017 20:18
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