|
Can the Bozja not involve a massive open chaos zone
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 03:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 08:34 |
|
|
you love blighted war hellscapes. it's actually pretty chill these days.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 03:35
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I think Bozja benefits from more or less being able to build its own structure. It was ostensibly the same sort of content as Eureka, but definitely altered the overall pacing and storytelling outlets of that content form to fit what it wanted to do. Meanwhile, Pandaemonium and Myths of the Realm were definitely stories twisting to fit themselves into that preexisting structure of 'twelve fights in three batches of four, you've only got this much space between fights/tiers, these three fights have a non-canon second form in higher difficulties'. I feels like Myths fits perfectly into the alliance raid format? 12 Gods = 12 boss fights (with one minor mixup). Works pretty well. The final bosses of each raid all die too fast but that’s not a structure problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 04:48
|
|
|
We'll never get a Gridania and Limsa vocal song 
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:18
|
|
|
really the main complaint I'd think anyone would have is that the last few bosses only get to appear in their raid and we don't get to pal around with them in tiny animal forms or in their full forms for a moment before starting the final trial honestly, getting to see the actual designs of the twelve in dialogue and not wreathed in three thousand explosions while trying to dodge poo poo was really cool the gods were mostly just spackle in the setting up until this raid, as far as it went for me. what did i know about the gods before this raid series? halone has a spear, i knew that. thal's got testicles. i picked azeyma at character creation but remembered nothing about them beyond the character login screen reminding me they're "the warden" the raids taught me more about the pantheon of the setting than the hundreds of hours of gameplay to get to 6.5 ever did i might be repeating myself, idk, but these raids were really cool, and I'm sad i don't get to hang out with our new friends any more.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:27
|
|
|
hexwren posted:i might be repeating myself, idk, but these raids were really cool, and I'm sad i don't get to hang out with our new friends any more. I definitely feel you. https://twitter.com/wyrmonastring_/status/1714379779825132024?t=2DPY0h5vkCBPten1AmQ_RQ&s=19 This is my headcanon
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:37
|
|
|
Thailak and Lymlaen have it rough yeah. At least Althyk and Nymeia get to be Elpis sidequest pals. Anyway not sure I’d call it ‘really good’ but it’s probably my favourite Alliance Raid. Very simple and kinda basic story but pleasant and nice also. Felt like a good closer to the “first arc of FFXIV”. Just a nice low stakes adventure. SyntheticPolygon fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Nov 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:41
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Thailak and Lymlaen have it rough yeah. At least Althyk and Nymeia get to be Elpis sidequest pals. Part 2 of FF14 AKA The Xehanort Saga
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:45
|
|
|
The Twelve raids are bright and colorful and have great music and the boss designs are adorable. They sure are a snooze by the twelfth time through, though, and I keep getting Aglaia in alliance roulette.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:48
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Part 2 of FF14 AKA The Xehanort Saga God I wish.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:49
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Part 2 of FF14 AKA The Xehanort Saga I think the Lingering Will would make a great solo duty in the style of Bozja duels. I just love the Lingering Will, it's (he's?) so cool.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:49
|
|
|
NachtSieger posted:I think the Lingering Will would make a great solo duty in the style of Bozja duels. I just love the Lingering Will, it's (he's?) so cool. It's Terra's will so it's he. But also Namine was directing/sending it places in 3 so maybe it's They? Much to consider.... SyntheticPolygon posted:God I wish. We can have peak in KH4 and DT, I believe. TBH I don't think the FF14 team has it in them to make the WoL have a relationship as weird cool and funny as Sora and Rikku's with Ansem SoD and Xemnas.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:54
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:I feels like Myths fits perfectly into the alliance raid format? I think the big failing of Myths is that the structure by default means that, despite being a pantheon of equals, their treatment as part of an alliance raid series very much isn't. I feel like every single one deserves the treatment that Nald'thal and Menphina get, and they just don't. Thaliak and Llymlaen got notably short shrift (although Llymlaen found a way to make it work), but I feel like Althyk and Nymeia got it the worst, since they didn't just have to share a boss fight, but it was a pretty limp boss fight.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 05:59
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I think the big failing of Myths is that the structure by default means that, despite being a pantheon of equals, their treatment as part of an alliance raid series very much isn't. I feel like every single one deserves the treatment that Nald'thal and Menphina get, and they just don't. So what you're saying is that we should have had a Coils of Bahamut situation where there's 13 floors instead of the normal 12.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 06:02
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I think the big failing of Myths is that the structure by default means that, despite being a pantheon of equals, their treatment as part of an alliance raid series very much isn't. I feel like every single one deserves the treatment that Nald'thal and Menphina get, and they just don't. This is true but I really like having an Alliance Raid where none of the bosses feel like throw aways. Byregot, Nophica & even Thailak have way stronger presentation than most raid 1st bosses. Orbonne is probably the only prior where all the bosses feel cool and important but Myths accomplishes that in all 3.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 06:11
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I think the big failing of Myths is that the structure by default means that, despite being a pantheon of equals, their treatment as part of an alliance raid series very much isn't. I feel like every single one deserves the treatment that Nald'thal and Menphina get, and they just don't. Yeah and I would have loved just something extra special from your patron God. Like last words to you before moving on or something. Hell an earring would have been neat
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 06:38
|
|
|
NachtSieger posted:So what you're saying is that we should have had a Coils of Bahamut situation where there's 13 floors instead of the normal 12. I mean... unironically yeah, it would've been great to see them go 'SURPRISE, THIRTEENTH RAID BOSS'. It might've helped the storytelling, too. I think everyone knew something was up once they shoved a fifth god in Euphrosyne and we therefore had a free space for the finale. TheWorldsaStage posted:Yeah and I would have loved just something extra special from your patron God. Like last words to you before moving on or something. Hell an earring would have been neat They do have a line acknowledging it (in that 'meet the gods' lineup if they aren't a Thaleia boss, and in their intro scene if they are, I believe) but it would've been nice to have something more like that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 06:41
|
|
|
TheWorldsaStage posted:Yeah and I would have loved just something extra special from your patron God. Like last words to you before moving on or something. Hell an earring would have been neat Well, if you had amazing foresight like I did, then your god is technically still alive and just slummin' it up as a normal dude with his baby monkey.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 06:41
|
|
|
TheWorldsaStage posted:We'll never get a Gridania and Limsa vocal song We got a mooncat one instead, which I think is a greater win tbh.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 07:44
|
|
|
Maybe when FF14 starts to wane, content we think is settled will reappear. "WOL you must travel to another shard and recreate the Twelve there!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 08:09
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Can the Bozja not involve a massive open chaos zone I actually think an exploratory mission that is more like a Blackrock Depths/EQ zone type open megadungeon would be pretty cool, with aetherytes to get you deeper in but the areas between aetherytes not necessarily being safe for solo travelers or easy to dodge mobs in, without someone clearing a path
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 08:47
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Thailak and Lymlaen have it rough yeah. At least Althyk and Nymeia get to be Elpis sidequest pals. I have heard a rumour that Lymlaen actually does appear in the Elpis section and that she is the witness to the first flight of the Meteia that you speak to. I need to review the dialogue and check but apparently the NPC is a fish enjoyer.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 09:51
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I think the big failing of Myths is that the structure by default means that, despite being a pantheon of equals, their treatment as part of an alliance raid series very much isn't. I feel like every single one deserves the treatment that Nald'thal and Menphina get, and they just don't. The Nymeia fight made me consider using a Fantasia to convert.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 10:12
|
|
|
The Myths of the Realm should have at least had a vocal prayer version of the normal city theme for Llymaen and Nophica the way Nald'thal did. If not a song for each god, Mooncat music for Menphina was fantastic too, but I would have been super down for weird science-themed prayers to Thaliak from Sharlayans for example.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 10:52
|
|
|
Wondering right now if Pan and Myths should have been switched where Pan was the alliance series and Myths was the 8 man raid series.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 15:45
|
|
|
That would've been terrible for Pandemonium's story. There was a lot of plot and character work between fights that would not have been possible in an alliance raid format.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 16:42
|
|
|
Not gonna lie though doing M12SP1 and then finding the amalgamation of the 12 in M12SP2 would have been sick, both in terms of the reveal and in terms of the mechanisms that you could potentially have.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 16:49
|
|
|
Myths of the Realm would also have been better served up as a standard raid, imo. It's just that Pandamonium would have been made worse in the alliance slot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 16:51
|
|
|
I was pretty disappointed with most of the god's conversations just being "boy, we sure love mortals. They're so cute/inspiring/brilliant/badass", and if that was the actual intended story rather than just the abridged version necessary to the alliance format I don't think I'd really want more time dedicated to that over Pandemonium's story
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 16:57
|
|
|
It's a bit of a no-win for me though because the gods were boring so I didn't want more time with them, but maybe they were boring because they couldn't spend more time writing interesting drama with them
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 16:59
|
|
|
I also doubt even if they made the Twelve the 8-man raids, we'd have gotten an unique song for each god which is the biggest complaint in general. Also how do you do Eulogia without keeping the fights separated the same or making it Savage only, and what Savage phases would you do with Nald'thal and Menphina.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 17:16
|
|
|
You don't need to do doorbosses necessarily, so just do something similar to E4S or E8S (no cutscene).
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
Countblanc posted:I was pretty disappointed with most of the god's conversations just being "boy, we sure love mortals. They're so cute/inspiring/brilliant/badass", and if that was the actual intended story rather than just the abridged version necessary to the alliance format I don't think I'd really want more time dedicated to that over Pandemonium's story Did they ever adequately explain the age old question one always has to ask when meeting God in a JRPG? "If you were supposed to be the ones protecting the realm from bullshit beyond it's ability to deal with, where the gently caress were you while I was picking up all of your slack?" Like, Hydaelyn, we know, was prepping things for the Exodus in case it ever came to that and keeping Zodiark contained in the meantime, but what the hell were the 12 doing? Were they otherwise engaged? Was all of their energy going towards building the Prayer Machine so that they could let themselves die and not feel bad about the wasted prayer energy?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 17:25
|
|
|
the_steve posted:Did they ever adequately explain the age old question one always has to ask when meeting God in a JRPG? They were literally keeping things running. That was their job.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 17:26
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:You don't need to do doorbosses necessarily, so just do something similar to E4S or E8S (no cutscene). Oschon does essentially do an ES4 in his fight, true. And I do agree Thaliak or Llym should have gotten a 3rd vocal song cause they are a bop, but I still feel MotR wouldn't have worked as well as the 8 man. (Also if Pandemonium was 24 man there'd be no White Stone Black or Fleeting Moment, and that would be a net loss). ImpAtom posted:They were literally keeping things running. That was their job. Yeah, it's pretty much stated they helped recover the aetheric balance after calamities and popped up multiple times to help people (which is how some depictions of the 12 were so close to the real ones, they came from witnesses who either saw the heavens or the gods doing stuff). Also wouldn't be surprised if they actually did help Louisoux with his sealing spell (albeit they were probably not conceived to do so originally) but all the Project Meteor stuff made Bahamut just Too Much. GiantRockFromSpace fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Nov 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 17:27
|
|
|
I figured they were doing stuff in the backend after each calamity to try to fix the aetheric results of everything happening. The aether of the planet would have entirely doubled during the first calamity, so while the 12 might not have been saving lives and fixing civilization, they could have been keeping the actual structure of the planet, and things like climate more or less in check so that there could be survivors at all. Or maybe not. There wasn't much of anything explained in the entire series.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 17:28
|
|
|
the_steve posted:Did they ever adequately explain the age old question one always has to ask when meeting God in a JRPG? Isn't it inscribed on Omphalos monument? It looks like their duties were mainly to maintain natural conditions to keep the planet habitable (especially in light of all the calamities) and also to subtly influence human behavior in a positive way. I think if they had interfered directly, it would not have been in line with Hydaelyn's goal that the newly emerged life be mostly left alone.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 17:38
|
|
|
the_steve posted:Did they ever adequately explain the age old question one always has to ask when meeting God in a JRPG?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 18:48
|
|
|
the_steve posted:Did they ever adequately explain the age old question one always has to ask when meeting God in a JRPG? No Venat and her crews entire deal was to let the new life of this world take the reins of stewards of the star and do their own poo poo as a counter to the Ascians entire deal of infiltrate influence and igniting societies to further their goals. The 12 were designed to take all that energy generated by prayer and belief and funnel it toward their individual jobs of helping maintain the rules and form of the world. No direct interference. I mean you could argue they were busy resotring the world over time from all the calamities and rejoinings but largely their goal is to let us do what we will. The machine is to just automate and replace them now that the biggest threats from their society are all gone and Venat and the convocation are finally and truly faded into history so they can return to the star as well and truly let the new life of the star control their own lives.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 19:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 08:34 |
|
|
Would the people's belief make a new twelve eventually?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2023 19:14
|
|