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Podima posted:Paranoia will serve you well in future games, but it's very rare to find a scum team that will tolerate someone faking cop results on a fellow buddy. Because I'm that loving good baby  But seriously Quid made a post, and I can't remember which one, and it struck me as a 100% cagey scum move to make So I claimed N0 cop because I was super confident he was scum and was willing to wear the D2 lynch if I hosed up. Then Quid basically avoided answering questions I posed him, and I was 200% confident by that point Then I got lynched because TOWN ARE DUMB But hey Survivor Team won, so I won 
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Jul 11, 2017 09:51
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King Burgundy posted:My point was you'd have won by far more if you guys had actually played mafia. Without even having to do that, you still won(by the skin of your teeth, sure, but still) From a fun factor perspective, I agree with you. The game would have been a lot more fun if scum posted more, and for that I feel genuinely bad. But from a strategy perspective - every time I tried to read the game, there was another 300 pages, so trying to catch up was a lot of work (given that I didn't have the intrinsic motivation of trying to find who the scums were). And then right when I was about to make a fakeclaim on D2 (when I necro'ed), Poque revealed that he jailed me which froze me up*. And then on D4, when I finally tried to make a fakeclaim, I was busted and lynched immediately. poo poo gotta go back to work, will finish this thought later. *(pun slightly intended)
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Jul 11, 2017 10:14
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Okay so thoughts. Frustrating to lose, given I'd figured out all the scum players and the correct play to win the game but live in the UK so needed to sleep.But AS is new and frankly I've done a bunch of stupider things in my time. This is probably the least fun I've had playing Mafia. That's not meant as an insult to Cpig who did a phenomenal job running this, but because of the nature of the game. There are so many unknowns about the night and the game is so so big that I basically never got to do what I enjoy doing in Mafia which is piecing together what happened at night and finding scum that way. I feel like I enjoyed the game a lot more when we were down to about 15-20 people. Additionally I've never seen a game where people take actions so personally and get so upset. After D2 I really didn't want to play any more. Like honestly it was just a mentally exhausting game to play just because of that.
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Jul 11, 2017 11:01
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Infinitum posted:Because I'm that loving good baby I seriously don't get how you keep playing when you get lynched like 60% of the time D1. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 11:02
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The Ninth Layer posted:The best way to win a game like this, as scum, is to come up with a claim and use it to blend in as much as possible, to be unremarkable, to be someone people don't think to target with their cop or track actions or roleblocks or what have you. Yeah - I feel like lurking has to be taken on a case by case basis. From a strategic standpoint: Pros: (a) if town, scum will often try and case the lurkiest town player, which in turn can be used to case scum early on (b) if town with a power role, lurking means scum might not target you (c) if scum, it means you're less likely to scumslip and that town might not notice you Cons: (a) if town, it means you're not providing cases that might help find scum (b) if town, it means that other town can't tell the difference between you and a scum lurker (c) if scum, town will eventually come down on you for lurking and if you don't have other content to build off of it can be hard to dig yourself out of suspicion I'm completely on board with the main objection to lurking (that it makes a game less fun to play) but I don't really know what, if anything, is the solution to that.
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Jul 11, 2017 11:08
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Also regarding me personally, the best I can do re: lurking is to put this entirely accurate statement about me out there:Murmur Twin posted:When I'm going through a stressful period in my life*, if I'm town I will put a ton of effort in and be engaged and appreciate the distraction, whereas if I'm scum I'll see it as one more stressful thing to do and miserably limp along until I either mess up or freak/replace out. Admittedly though I like sharing my tells as a way to motivate myself to change them, so make of that what you will. Specifically, while I might not post a ton on D1 (alignment neutral), if the game goes on and I post less / don't seem like I'm enjoying myself, I'm almost definitely scum. People are more than welcome to use that argument in the future against me 
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Jul 11, 2017 11:13
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So I fuckery up by irritating people and voting too early the last day. Apologies.
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Jul 11, 2017 11:26
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The solution to scum lurking in this game was voting them and considering different townies on separate occasions named the entire remaining scum team I don't think it was too much of a problem? scums gonna scum so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Jul 11, 2017 11:31
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Birdstrike posted:The solution to scum lurking in this game was voting them and considering different townies on separate occasions named the entire remaining scum team I don't think it was too much of a problem? in my game scums gonna csum 
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Jul 11, 2017 11:32
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This was a game.
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Jul 11, 2017 11:40
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Max posted:This was a game.  YT I hope more comfortable in future with more read-based mafs because while night action detectiving is fun there are many games where it just won't really work
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Jul 11, 2017 11:43
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my reads were pretty bad, but I did call out Asiina and Jam early so woo woo
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Jul 11, 2017 13:34
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Birdstrike posted:
I'm happier doing it, for sure, but it's not the main reason I'm in a mafia game.
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Jul 11, 2017 13:39
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Yorkshire Tea posted:I seriously don't get how you keep playing when you get lynched like 60% of the time D1. My last few games I've been dunked D1, but other than that I've been pretty average in where I get bumped off? I don't really stress the small stuff It's just a game THAT I AM INCREDIBLE AT
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Jul 11, 2017 13:55
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Tired Moritz posted:my reads were pretty bad, but I did call out Asiina and Jam early so woo woo Jam was town so congrats I never submitted an action that didn't target scum  of course like half of them got redirected but I'm still amazing.Anyway as salty as I am about the ultimate result and how it went down, I had a lot of fun and it was probably one of my best town games. Thanks Pig!
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Jul 11, 2017 14:21
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King Burgundy posted:My point was you'd have won by far more if you guys had actually played mafia. Without even having to do that, you still won(by the skin of your teeth, sure, but still) I feel like the setup was balanced against scum, but you are right that the playstyle of these forums (ie lovely) was balanced against town, but honestly it's hard to know what kind of culture will develop around a game. I remember an Eccogame with a cult that was pro-town and completely inexplicably town chose to believe in the cult rather than mistrust them. It wasn't something Ecco expected and completely changed the way the game happened. That was totally valid, but shifted balance significantly. You can't really predict what is going to grab the thread and what essentially the culture of that game will become. If there were a few more people who were on the ANTI-FUN bandwagon and Kash got lynched for his use of his power, that might have shifted the dynamic of the thread and people would be more wary about using their killing powers and town wouldn't have repeatedly shot themselves in the foot. Because the fact is that a game with multiple daycops, no solid nightkill, and a small scumteam is objectively really balanced against scum. As I said, if the bards were believed (like the way that cult was believed) then that was more confirmed town on D1 than the entire scumteam. The fact that town hurt themselves far more than scum ever could is something that could have gone quite differently if even a few people took a different stance early on.
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Jul 11, 2017 14:22
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Poque posted:Jam was town so Goddamn it. Well 1 out of three isnt that bad
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Jul 11, 2017 14:55
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Asiina posted:I am glad for the win, although will maintain that multiple daycops swings things very heavily in town's favour in a way I think wasn't accounted for making it balanced against scum. If people believed the bards then between them and the people they confirmed town that was more people than the entire scum team confirmed D1. The big thing was the rng though, it would have been totally different if gilgabot had handed out a very small amount of bards and summoners if any. It was the rng that delivered the massive amount of daycops/cops not the setup itself. I think there were even a few jobs that never even saw play.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:04
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how many people choose the mage route
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Jul 11, 2017 15:09
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Tired Moritz posted:how many people choose the mage route a bunch, it was the second most popular run type. It says in the obs doc on the player jobs/run types page
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Jul 11, 2017 15:13
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Cpig did you take my berserker risk request seriously? Additionally I wish someone had copped me N4 or N5. Would have been game winning.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:15
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Tired Moritz posted:how many people choose the mage route I went 750 and swapped out a necro for a blue mage. Even though my Blue Mage was already unlocked and I knew what it did, I was super terrified the night of like 9 doom symbols because I thought it was going to be L5 Death and I had a post count divisible by 5.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:15
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By the way, my experiment into a game run almost solely by rng is now complete and , I don't know if I will do that again. I am working on FF6 and I plan on making it just a good old fashioned regular large mafia game with relatable mechanics. A palate cleanser if you will. FF6 has a TON of characters so it lends itself very well to a mafia game.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:15
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Cpig did you take my berserker risk request seriously? Nah I wasn't using berzerker risk because the point of that is that multiple berserkers are a hindrance, while in this game they were not, they were just tons of kills.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:16
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All the blue mages somehow managed to avoid single target powers targeting them. A couple landed on nights that the blue mages died but thats it.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:17
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CapitalistPig posted:By the way, my experiment into a game run almost solely by rng is now complete and , I don't know if I will do that again. pre-signing but only if I am the rich old man at the auction who says "Ho ho ho...there's nothing I can't buy!"
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Jul 11, 2017 15:35
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CapitalistPig posted:The big thing was the rng though, it would have been totally different if gilgabot had handed out a very small amount of bards and summoners if any. Yeah, I'm generally not a huge fan of RNG, especially in mafia games, and this game was extremely reliant on RNG. Especially considering how close the ending was, any of the million of dice rolls going different could have easily switched the outcome.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:36
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Did Ninja ever get used? I thought about how pointless that role was once it unlocked since all my nightjobs were dead anyway.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:43
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Max posted:Did Ninja ever get used? I thought about how pointless that role was once it unlocked since all my nightjobs were dead anyway. Yeah ninja could have been good depending on what people rolled, but it was mostly useless in this game.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:01
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Max posted:Did Ninja ever get used? I thought about how pointless that role was once it unlocked since all my nightjobs were dead anyway. I had it for my jump N3 as I recall but since I was untargetable anyway I don't think it made a difference. I didn't have a great combination of roles.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:02
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I mean it's hard to feel too proud of a game that I won by hitting a 20% chance roll five times in a row. Town had all three of us caught at the end but just had taken too much damage at that point.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:47
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King Burgundy posted:My point was you'd have won by far more if you guys had actually played mafia. Without even having to do that, you still won(by the skin of your teeth, sure, but still) Days 1 and 3 were decided by day cops. Day 4 was decided in part by "CPig didn't PM Quid a reminder so he must be scum sending actions in through the doc."By day 5 and 6 you had picked out the scum, yes, but the rest of the game was spent in circular arguments about night actions. I don't think I was being particularly subtle about being scum. But even when I called you out with several bad votes, the most you ever said about me was "heh, okay you're scum" and you left it at that. I would have to look at the night actions but nobody ever targeted me with any investigation that I can recall. In a game based entirely around night actions, the night actions are the meat of the game. Of course scum are going to play very cautious in a setup like that. Believe me I would much rather be town in a setup like this any day of the week, there were about eight or nine helpful observations like "hold onto your mandatory day kill for more than three hours until at least some cops can claim" or "maybe it's actually not a good idea to focus fire people with 1 or 2 jobs for the sake of efficient killing." The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 16:55
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Poque posted:i got mod prodded when I was late to my night action, makes u think This was true, btw. I was very very hesitant to post this, because it felt close to the general "no mod communication" rule, but it was heavily influencing my reads at that point and I ultimately decided I wanted to share it. I made it a bit more casual in that post but I needed it out there. What do you guys think of that in terms of like...the ethics of the game?
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Jul 11, 2017 16:58
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Poque posted:This was true, btw. I was very very hesitant to post this, because it felt close to the general "no mod communication" rule, but it was heavily influencing my reads at that point and I ultimately decided I wanted to share it. I made it a bit more casual in that post but I needed it out there. What do you guys think of that in terms of like...the ethics of the game? If I was town I would have voted on this instantly. There's nothing unethical about making inferences about mod communications, it's on scum to know how those communications work ahead of time. For what it's worth I was not able to access our scum doc on the five or so days that I was out of town for the 4th and didn't get a role PM either. Talking to CPig about it he apologized and admitted it was a mistake to treat the two factions differently in this regard and that he had forgotten the scum doc isn't always accessible. I think there is a discussion to be had about how as a community we've in some ways sacrificed parity in communication for alignments for the convenience provided by a Google sheet. Back when I started playing there was no such thing as a "scum doc" it was just whatever AIM chat you could put together with your scumbuddies and then you'd all PM in your night actions like everyone else. That's probably the more equitable way to handle night actions: make the scum have to PM theirs in and make sure they get PMs back the same way town do.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:11
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The Ninth Layer posted:Days 1 and 3 were decided by day cops. Day 4 was decided in part by "CPig didn't PM Quid a reminder so he must be scum sending actions in through the doc."By day 5 and 6 you had picked out the scum, yes, but the rest of the game was spent in circular arguments about night actions. Sure. But none of that speaks to balance. My primary point is that town only had one miscuddle and the scum won, so the game was obviously not balanced against the scum. Especially given that the scum didn't do anything non action related to earn it. In case it isn't clear, I'm not arguing that it was balanced against town either. I think it was pretty balanced. BTW, on the lurking thing, the way to prevent that from being the correct strategy is if we vote lurkers out. People are going to be mad at me in future mafia games for not playing mafia, but I'll be primarily voting lurkers now until they are all gone. Especially given posts by you and MMT saying lurking was the correct strategy for scum. I'll point out these posts when people try to tell me that lurking is alignment neutral.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:14
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Poque posted:This was true, btw. I was very very hesitant to post this, because it felt close to the general "no mod communication" rule, but it was heavily influencing my reads at that point and I ultimately decided I wanted to share it. I made it a bit more casual in that post but I needed it out there. What do you guys think of that in terms of like...the ethics of the game? This was totally valid. An argument can be made that Pig should have communicated differently to help prevent it as an issue, but it was fair play.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:16
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King Burgundy posted:Sure. But none of that speaks to balance. My primary point is that town only had one miscuddle and the scum won, so the game was obviously not balanced against the scum. Especially given that the scum didn't do anything non action related to earn it. In case it isn't clear, I'm not arguing that it was balanced against town either. I think it was pretty balanced. A game like this for scum is won or lost on mistakes. None of us played great but what sealed most of our fates wasn't content or lack of it but night actions or mistakes about night actions. Murmur Twin may have been voted out anyway but it was that her claim contradicted Jammy's own (mistaken) claim that ultimately sealed the deal. I certainly would have lost the game if YT had fired off his berserker kill on Mithross (or me) instead of waiting. The town's failure this game was a complete lack of strategy regarding night actions. If people had played to preserve town lives instead of maximizing value on town kills we surely would have lost this game. And as it is, it took me five hits in a row on a 20% chance and a last-minute town oversight to do it and I still had a 33% chance of losing even then. The game would have ended completely differently if even one less town player had been killed by the town.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:20
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Put another way, by day 4 half the game was dead, and I don't think it was scum who killed most of those players.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:25
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The Ninth Layer posted:A game like this for scum is won or lost on mistakes. None of us played great but what sealed most of our fates wasn't content or lack of it but night actions or mistakes about night actions. Murmur Twin may have been voted out anyway but it was that her claim contradicted Jammy's own (mistaken) claim that ultimately sealed the deal. I certainly would have lost the game if YT had fired off his berserker kill on Mithross (or me) instead of waiting. Don't disagree with any of this. But my point still stands. We are playing mafia on SA. We know who the players are. Some version of town self destructing was always going to happen with these "cool" powers that they wanted to use. Thus, balanced. Like, even logical players like Bif and Poque were saying that town necros using their powers were fine/not bad for town.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:27
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It was explicitly scum team's lucky Odin that flipped the game from town to scum.
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Jul 11, 2017 17:29
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