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savinhill posted:Oh for those blissful days when the Meereneese Knot wasn't yet revealed to be bullshit and there was still hope Grrm could write like an actual professional author once he conquered it This, essentially. There was always the chance he would get his arse back into gear after Feast/Dance, so simply looking at the maths of the last two books' release dates didn't guarantee that the show would overtake GRRUM. When it became clear that Dance didn't actually contain the conclusions to most of the originally planned Feast though, yeah......
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Feb 4, 2015 14:15
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He likes to pass it off as the "hardest thing he's ever written" but the Red Wedding was the only real conclusion he ever planned. He may have had a vague idea of where everyone is supposed to ultimately end up from the beginning but it's pretty clear that after he blew his wad at The Twins and there were no more tropes left to subvert he started flailing around with no real idea of how to get to an ending.
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Feb 4, 2015 14:23
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General Bort posted:For all we know GRRM worked on the first book for ten years and at the same time outlined Clash and Storm. That's more or less what happened, about 2/3 of the original manuscript he turned in because AGoT and the rest of it became Clash.
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Feb 4, 2015 14:38
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Agreed that after Storm he couldn't just ride on subverting tropes anymore. The series thematically becomes something like YA Fiction because it's now all about the younger teenage generation dealing with the messes their rear end in a top hat parents left behind. Maybe instead of a genre writer we should get someone like Suzanne Collins to finish the series
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Feb 4, 2015 14:59
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visceril posted:Agreed that after Storm he couldn't just ride on subverting tropes anymore. The series thematically becomes something like YA Fiction because it's now all about the younger teenage generation dealing with the messes their rear end in a top hat parents left behind. Maybe instead of a genre writer we should get someone like Suzanne Collins to finish the series The only trope he subverted was "guy you hung around with died early on in the series", which puts Ned at the same level as Obi-Wan Kenobi.
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Feb 4, 2015 15:26
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visceril posted:Agreed that after Storm he couldn't just ride on subverting tropes anymore. The series thematically becomes something like YA Fiction because it's now all about the younger teenage generation dealing with the messes their rear end in a top hat parents left behind. Maybe instead of a genre writer we should get someone like Suzanne Collins to finish the series I loved Animorphs as a kid, and there were a ton of those. Someone get K.A. Applegate on the phone, it even fits all the warging poo poo.
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Feb 4, 2015 16:14
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GRRM will release winds and spring on the same day that their tv counterparts (seasons 6/7) are released on bluray. calling it now.
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Feb 4, 2015 20:09
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Waterstones posted GRRM's original outline of ASOIAF on their twitter, in a move that will almost certainly piss him off. Some of it is pretty much the same as the finished books, the same end results but different causes and wildly differing character motivations. No spoilers I think? Well at least I hope this isn't a spoiler:  
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Feb 4, 2015 20:15
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As awful as that all sounds at least it has an ending.
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Feb 4, 2015 20:30
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pisssssssssssss
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Feb 4, 2015 20:31
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The last line makes it sounds like all of that was supposed to happen in the first book except for the bit that's been censored.
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Feb 4, 2015 20:37
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Erm, Jon and Arya incest?
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Feb 4, 2015 21:35
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Not before they get it on while warged into Ghost and Nymeria. Beastiality-double-incest 
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Feb 4, 2015 21:37
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It's GURM so I imagine they're both supposed to still be well underage for when the sex scene(s) happens.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:38
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so basically tyrion, dany, jon, bran and arya all had plot armor from the very beginning.
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Feb 4, 2015 21:45
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Also, Jon's moral delima throughout the "trilogy" is apparently "I want to bang my sister soooo hard, but its wrong because she's my sister," and is apparently resolved with "oh wait, she's really my cousin. Well okay then!  "
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Feb 4, 2015 21:46
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The American Tolkien.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:59
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TommyGun85 posted:so basically tyrion, dany, jon, bran and arya all had plot armor from the very beginning. Not that that was terribly surprising (minus Bran I guess).
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Feb 5, 2015 01:27
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TommyGun85 posted:so basically tyrion, dany, jon, bran and arya all had plot armor from the very beginning. it's not like he was going to kill off every character or pull names from a hat, it's not surprising that there were some he intended to live for a long time
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Feb 5, 2015 01:33
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Wow, I think GURM has a thing for underaged incest.
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Feb 5, 2015 01:41
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GreyPowerVan posted:Wow, I think GURM has a thing for underaged incest. Brace yourself for this one then, the sky is blue. 
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Feb 5, 2015 04:06
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Hahah, ha... trilogy.
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Feb 5, 2015 06:17
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Arbite posted:Hahah, ha... trilogy. Its gonna take him a trilogy of books to finish the fourth book.
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Feb 5, 2015 06:24
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TommyGun85 posted:so basically tyrion, dany, jon, bran and arya all had plot armor from the very beginning. Yeah no loving poo poo if you haven't known that for a couple of books. I mean Bran might not've but he was always at least gonna last until he had a narrative point. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Feb 5, 2015 |
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Feb 5, 2015 11:03
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Tyrion's plot armor was so goddamn think at times it should've crushed him to death. Arya too.
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Feb 5, 2015 18:54
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Tyrion surviving the Blackwater isn't that crazy. Pod sticking to him through the fog of battle and killing Balon Swann was kind of bullshit, yeah. Tyrion getting smuggled out of the castle makes sense in that Varys wants to create a permanent bad-decision-inducing specter for Cersei. But he could've just killed him instead of letting a variable get loose. Was Varys counting on Tyrion to help persuade Dany to bring her dragons to Westeros? because I want to say that's retarded, but he did manage to convince Aegon to take immediate action in like an hour. The only real bullshit moment I got with Arya was the Red Wedding cliffhanger.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:30
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In terms of plot armor, no one comes close to Ramsay Bolton.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:37
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joepinetree posted:In terms of plot armor, no one comes close to Ramsay Bolton. The only time he was in legitimate danger was before we knew he was Ramsay. I mean yeah it seems like Roose would finally just go kill him but kinslaying is seen as pretty important still.
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Feb 5, 2015 19:42
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Plot armor is something I get mad about only when a book still has a working plot
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Feb 5, 2015 19:52
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Yeah plot armor implies there is a plot.
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Feb 5, 2015 20:06
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computer parts posted:The only time he was in legitimate danger was before we knew he was Ramsay. There is the whole switching places at the literal last minute with reek and being kept alive as a witness (only time in the entire series where there is that concern), then fooling theon and rodrik. And being a literal absolute murderous bastard who gets away with everything.
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Feb 5, 2015 20:19
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I dunno, it's easy to say that people who haven't died yet have plot armour.
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Feb 5, 2015 20:28
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I'm looking forward to see what HBO does with the ending, I might not even read the books when they come ouhahhaHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH who am I kidding, hey aren't ever coming out. Is this going to be the first book series that morphs into a television show and never finishes as books because the show is done and the plot is spoiled?
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Feb 5, 2015 21:21
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Tyrion's entire survival in the Vale and how he just up and recruits all the bandits/wildmen/whatever was pretty absurd, though Pod being able to stick by him on the Blackwater was dumb as hell and yes he should've died there. Same with getting whisked out of the arena seconds away from being lion chow and so forth.computer parts posted:The only time he was in legitimate danger was before we knew he was Ramsay. Roose only has Ramsay as an heir for now, so that's probably no small part in it. If he can live long enough to get a son via the Frey he married I imagine the assassination attempts on Ramsay and vice versa will come quickly. Maybe GURM's ending is going to be Ramsay atop the iron skull throne as the third Targaryen.
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Feb 5, 2015 21:32
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I think the book will come out in 2016/17 for exactly 1 reason: sales. There is no way his publisher is going to miss the cresting wave of the HBO series. They will wrap up whatever he has, and ship it out.
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Feb 5, 2015 23:11
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Junkenstein posted:I dunno, it's easy to say that people who haven't died yet have plot armour. Not to mention that in Ramsey's case, he could even be dead right now if the letter Jon received was written by Mance. I don't know if the show is supposed to get to the winterfell stuff this season, but it'll be interesting if the show definitively shows Stannis or Ramsey (or Mance) dying this season, or Jon getting resurrected by Melisandre. Man I'd forgotten that DwD doesn't even bother to resolve the Winterfell battle or the obviously not really dead Jon. It's like if CoKs ended right before the blackwater battle or before revealing the Bran/Rickon fakeout. At least the other books told complete narrative arcs, that's the biggest disappointment with Feast and Dance.
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Feb 5, 2015 23:14
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kcroy posted:I think the book will come out in 2016/17 for exactly 1 reason: sales. There is no way his publisher is going to miss the cresting wave of the HBO series. They will wrap up whatever he has, and ship it out. He contracted for a trilogy, does his publisher even have a legal say in the matter anymore?
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Feb 5, 2015 23:33
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visceril posted:
I've said it before, but having a drunken giant somehow "knock out" a small child, while on horseback, with a battleaxe really suggests that GRUM has no concept of the physical world. See also: wildlings shooting crows off the top of the wall.
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Feb 5, 2015 23:58
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kcroy posted:I think the book will come out in 2016/17 for exactly 1 reason: sales. There is no way his publisher is going to miss the cresting wave of the HBO series. They will wrap up whatever he has, and ship it out. Hell, it's what they did for Dance.
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Feb 6, 2015 00:00
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Evil Fluffy posted:Tyrion's plot armor was so goddamn think at times it should've crushed him to death. Arya too. I heard Grrm put nipples on Arya's plot armor
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Feb 6, 2015 00:02
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