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happyhippy posted:They've ignored the millions if not billions who also work there. You know I'd kinda thought that city was the one we saw in Quantumania but it seems to have vanished entirely doesn't it, they don't explore it at all
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Nov 4, 2023 18:15
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Taear posted:I guess I can't imagine a godly alien who hasn't got huge experience of 1980s america just deciding "okay this is fine" and staying there Sometimes if you've had a real lovely life, having one that might seem boring and tiny and mundane to other people ends up being your heart's desire. I don't find that unimaginable at all. Further, I think the fact that she has all the choice and freedom in the universe is part of what empowers her to live that small life that she wanted/wants right now. You are focused on the negative aspects of working a fast food existence because most people who do it in real life do feel trapped in it. Even if you choose not to accept that she was genuinely happy living the life she is shown living, she does have the ability to leave or change it at any time. That's huge. It makes what she is spending her time doing truly a choice, and not a sentence. And also, something that I don't think has been pointed out yet is that, in canon, Lokis want power. Power, glory, worship, all those things are things that the standard Loki seeks and craves. It's a character trait. Sylvie wanting a life that is devoid of any of that is another demonstration of her being an individual, being her own person, regardless of her origin.
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Nov 4, 2023 19:01
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Sometimes if you've had a real lovely life, having one that might seem boring and tiny and mundane to other people ends up being your heart's desire. I don't find that unimaginable at all. Further, I think the fact that she has all the choice and freedom in the universe is part of what empowers her to live that small life that she wanted/wants right now. You are focused on the negative aspects of working a fast food existence because most people who do it in real life do feel trapped in it. Even if you choose not to accept that she was genuinely happy living the life she is shown living, she does have the ability to leave or change it at any time. That's huge. It makes what she is spending her time doing truly a choice, and not a sentence. At least move to Sweden Go somewhere decent, AT LEAST And it'd be thematic
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Nov 4, 2023 19:08
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Eiba posted:I think the extent to which anyone knows what will happen is being overstated. Loki goes around warning about spaghettification, but when he meets Sylvie and she says to gently caress off, he very quickly concedes that he was doing this because he wanted his friends back. In other words he too was not confident that existence needed the TVA to keep existing. I mean, why would it? Presumably existence existed before the TVA and didn’t spontaneously spaghettify. They aren’t different. An analogous story is the End of Evangelion. Third impact is “I don’t want to be alone” There was the bit about is this “science” or is this ”fiction “. We think about our lives in stories. Constructed stories, fictions. This gets back to will-to-power is just the will-to-life when one is in a group rather than as an individual. It’s a constructed story “I don’t want to be alone” is the TVA needs to keep existing. That also ties into this BRJurgis posted:The parallel to me is idealists condemning the massive systems we've built, accountable to nobody and far larger and more powerful than us. It took atrocities to build them and atrocities to maintain them. Along with the injustices and lies they are dooming the planet and despite the best intentions of many people there is no real incentive to correct... because if exists just to maintain stability while it grows forever. If fixing it is impossible than we should strive to cast it down. Meanwhile Loki is saying what if we use our power to make it better, make it work for good, which Sylvie very reasonably (correctly in the real world scenario IMO) believes is impossible. Groups are less moral than individuals. All societies do very bad things to continue to exist. Individuals are often the object of those very bad things, eg. Sylvie. As an individual she just wants to east McDonald’s, drive an old truck and listen to music. gently caress the TVA. But that’s not possible because we don’t get to not be parts of groups, we have to be to continue to exist. From the other side, the end point being in a group of the will-to-power is He-who-remains. Will-to-power is infinite genocides for eternity. This isn’t abstract FYI it’s as concrete as say the issue of Israel and Palestine. Loki’s hope is that it’s possible to be better that we can exist as a society with all the ongoing genocides. Thing is we don’t have a choice, to exist we have to exist together. One has to try even if it’s impossible.
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Nov 4, 2023 19:29
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spoilers since im referring to leaks i wonder how different the TVA will be in Deadpool 3 if the leaks/rumors are true. maybe the ending to this show will directly lead into that? i assume it wont be a few corridors and the few staff we've seen in loki s2
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Nov 4, 2023 19:45
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Taear posted:You know I'd kinda thought that city was the one we saw in Quantumania but it seems to have vanished entirely doesn't it, they don't explore it at all but when you really get down to it I guess maybe at the core there's about five important people One thing for me that rings off in S2E5: Loki being forced to the realization he wants to reunite with "his friends". We know Loki and Möbius are bros, and Loki and Sylvie got close, but realistically how much time has he spent with any of these people in the course of the series? A month? keep in mind I didn't rewatch S1 so there could be a decade long montage in there I've forgotten completely
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Nov 4, 2023 20:14
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That's a thing that's been stuck in my mind for a little bit Loki explaining to Mobius that one time he tried to take over New York by using an army of Chitauri But to Loki that was like, only a week ago, and he's talking about it like it was years and years in the past
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Nov 4, 2023 20:32
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Sockser posted:That's a thing that's been stuck in my mind for a little bit Honestly you could replace Loki (and Sylvie) with anyone and it'd be fine. It just doesn't feel like they're working off him. We did get the Moebius montage in series 1, but Sylvie hasn't had that. It doesn't matter loads but when you're making the show specifically about his motivations instead of about the actions of the TVA killing Variants it starts to muddy the water and make less sense to me
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Nov 4, 2023 20:42
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Taear posted:. Sylvie fought the TVA and knew their tech enough to know to hide in apocalypses and all that so she must have some ideas of how the system worked and nothing in s2 really gives her any reason to believe it’s a bluff. In this season she saw victor timely get spagettified, not to mention she spared him so I took that to mean she believed them on some level. It just reminds me a lot of Tyrion in GOT where they just decided to make him stupid in the later seasons because the plot needed it. I’ve mostly enjoyed s2 and hope they stick the landing, I don’t think it would be very fun if everything just got reset after fixing the loom.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:18
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When is the part where Loki learns to bend bullets from his hitmam father or whatever?
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Nov 4, 2023 23:56
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it was a nice touch that sylvie somehow drank the second bourbon shot while off camera and left him with the tab. she's a much better loki also the cool record shop guy giving her a song that's literally on the High Fidelity soundtrack lol
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Nov 5, 2023 01:01
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eke out posted:it was a nice touch that sylvie somehow drank the second bourbon shot while off camera and left him with the tab. she's a much better loki This is a joke right? Or did I completely misunderstand the context of that scene and it WASN'T that Loki's drink spaghetti-fied like we were seeing other items around them fading out of existence in earlier scenes?
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Nov 5, 2023 01:15
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Cage Kicker posted:When is the part where Loki learns to bend bullets from his hitmam father or whatever? Speaking of Loki's father, Mobius's family was clearly mirroring that of Loki's. Dead mother and two brothers. One is impulsive and doesn't listen to his father (Thor), the other is more composed and likes snakes (Loki).
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Nov 5, 2023 01:17
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BoldFace posted:Speaking of Loki's father, Mobius's family was clearly mirroring that of Loki's. Dead mother and two brothers. One is impulsive and doesn't listen to his father (Thor), the other is more composed and likes snakes (Loki). mobius's name is pretty close to odin too, he's don
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Nov 5, 2023 01:21
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Jerusalem posted:This is a joke right? Or did I completely misunderstand the context of that scene and it WASN'T that Loki's drink spaghetti-fied like we were seeing other items around them fading out of existence in earlier scenes? you're probably right, but other things weren't fading in that scene and they give loki a comic reaction so it was my literal first thought eke out fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 02:03
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Taear posted:At least move to Sweden Hm I dunno, I feel like there are several ways to justify choosing to stay in Idaho or wherever from the character's perspective. She could exposit to someone that the bright logo colors fundamentally appealed to her, felt like a beacon after a long darkness. She could tell the audience it felt like her beacon, like a place that could be her home. Her reasons would be some kind of lovely compelling prose, I am not a writer. I can think of a bunch of reasons Sylvie the character might choose to put down roots wherever she did but also I don't really care enough to want to watch a scene detailing them so I am fine giving the benefit of the doubt and making them up myself. Also as you say she's unfamiliar with that timeline, she has no reason to think going to Sweden (or wherever) might be the place to be instead of where this dice roll of Fate has landed her. I don't know if it's me making excuses for the writers or you maybe not fully engaging with them 
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Nov 5, 2023 02:08
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Hm I dunno, I feel like there are several ways to justify choosing to stay in Idaho or wherever from the character's perspective. She could exposit to someone that the bright logo colors fundamentally appealed to her, felt like a beacon after a long darkness. She could tell the audience it felt like her beacon, like a place that could be her home. Her reasons would be some kind of lovely compelling prose, I am not a writer. I can think of a bunch of reasons Sylvie the character might choose to put down roots wherever she did but also I don't really care enough to want to watch a scene detailing them so I am fine giving the benefit of the doubt and making them up myself. Also as you say she's unfamiliar with that timeline, she has no reason to think going to Sweden (or wherever) might be the place to be instead of where this dice roll of Fate has landed her. I don't know if it's me making excuses for the writers or you maybe not fully engaging with them Or it could be that she's been a god, and now she just wants the most simple, ordinary life she can find. There's very few things less complex or more mundane than a McJob.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:19
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They’ve also taken pains to show she’s clearly connected to the people there. Offering a younger employee a ride home, if his mom wasn’t coming, clearly having a a friendship and rapport with the record store owner, etc.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:24
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Jedit posted:Or it could be that she's been a god, and now she just wants the most simple, ordinary life she can find. There's very few things less complex or more mundane than a McJob. I mean yes definitely that idea, that has been covered extensively even prior to my post in agreement up thread. But then Taear objected specifically to her choice of 1980s America. I have liked the glimpses we had into Sylvie's life. She has a community 
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Nov 5, 2023 02:42
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Isn't 1980s Oklahoma just where she was spit out?
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Nov 5, 2023 02:50
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Yeah exactly. I can totally see a person being like "here I am, and so here will be my new life." It doesn't seem that mysterious.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:52
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Does anyone have a screenshot of O.B.'s big board of post it notes? It's on screen for a few seconds and there's a lot of info there. It's about 12 1/2 minutes in.
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Nov 5, 2023 03:00
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Broxton, OK is also the place where New Asgard is settled in the comics And Salina, OK makes an appearance at the end of S1E1 where Sylvie kills some TVA mooks and pockets their pruning charge
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Nov 5, 2023 03:13
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Here is a mediocre cell phone picture, in case nobody does better  https://i.imgur.com/PWQOO9B.jpg  LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 03:15
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It’s story ideas and archetypes, neat.
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Nov 5, 2023 03:16
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Jedit posted:There's very few things less complex or more mundane than a McJob. Not the case. That's just a myth perpetrated by capitalists so they can basically keep their slaves. A bunch of desperate people working for basically nothing doing really difficult, really lovely work so when people above those people on the social ladder get out of line, the moneyed can point to those people and go, keep complaining and you'll be saying "would you like fries with that" by next week.
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Nov 5, 2023 03:18
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Here is a mediocre cell phone picture, in case nobody does better Awesome, thank you. The "Who what where when why" one jumps out
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Nov 5, 2023 03:20
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There's a close-up during the credits too: 
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Nov 5, 2023 03:28
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LividLiquid posted:If you'll allow me to soapbox, briefly? Sylvie's found a time where you could make a living wage at McDonald's and is right to stay there
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Nov 5, 2023 03:32
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The Finn posted:Awesome, thank you. The "Who what where when why" one jumps out Jerusalem posted:There's a close-up during the credits too: code: of course
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Nov 5, 2023 03:32
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live with fruit posted:Sylvie's found a time where you could make a living wage at McDonald's and is right to stay there Still wasn't actually a living wage, but compared to today? Woof.
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Nov 5, 2023 03:34
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I'm not sure I understand why Loki got so emotional about timeline branches being pruned in an earlier episode, but he just casually brushed off his friends being turned into spaghetti in this episode?
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Nov 5, 2023 06:42
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BoldFace posted:I'm not sure I understand why Loki got so emotional about timeline branches being pruned in an earlier episode, but he just casually brushed off his friends being turned into spaghetti in this episode? In his time, it's the second time he's seen them die in a day.
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Nov 5, 2023 06:56
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Because he started time slipping everywhere and is trying to process that while thinking he can reverse things now but just not knowing how to do it yet. Still his whole mission is to stop pruning-genocide so that aligns with the earlier stuff.
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Nov 5, 2023 11:52
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Yeah exactly. I can totally see a person being like "here I am, and so here will be my new life." It doesn't seem that mysterious. Whereas I feel like an immortal alien wouldn't. Especially an immortal alien Loki although it's clearly shown us how different to Loki she is. Service jobs are nightmare shits. Although maybe if you live in the middle of nowhere it might be better? Being a woman in the 80s also isn't exactly great. She just has so much more choice for "better and not difficult". It feels like a very middle class american idea of "This isn't a bad place to be" I guess. Also a ton of places she's experienced because of her moving around all the time, not like she wouldn't have the knowledge. So here is the story of this series so far in my head, and I still don't think it really works for me. I'll spoiler it, just in case. We begin with what looks like a TVA taken over by Kang. Which fits what HWR said to Loki/Sylvie at the end, that his variants would take over the universe. It turns out it's just the past and everything is still as it was in Loki's TVA. We later get shown HWR and Renslayer talking about the TVA and how they'd built a place for HWR at the end of time, then HWR wipes her memory and effectively steps out of the TVA. This suggests that the TVA was run by Kang directly and he kept the sacred timeline going actively himself before setting up the fake stuff which we saw in series 1. OB has explicitly told us now that HWR set up the TVA and OB knew about him. This feels a bit like a retcon, i almost feel like they had a totally different plan based on what we saw at the end of series 1 and have scrambled to change that story now. They've shown us the Loom. The loom seems to gather all the time into the sacred timeline, or it did that before the end of HWR and the stopping of pruning. Now it's trying to gather time and make loads of timelines and it can't, so it's exploding. And that means...existence ends? So while HWR "made it" it must have also existed forever since timelines cannot exist without it. For me that makes the problem of "if it's existed forever then during the time wars that Kang started it must have been able to cope with all these timelines". Maybe we'll learn this in the last episode. We also learn that HWR seems to be a Kang that existed in the 1800s and he wrote the guide book based on the guide book based on the guide book ad infinitum. I had thought that Kang said all timelines END with him being created and taking over the world but it doesn't feel like 1800s Kang is gonna do that. I guess not every Kang is a winner? We learn that Miss Minutes is kinda in love with every instance of Kang as well when we meet him, which is...weird. Again the only pay off for that is going to have to be at the end. During this the TVA has been boiled down to just 5 people and Loki wants to hold onto it. What will they do when they're not pruning things to create the sacred timeline? Well who loving knows but I guess now they have to protect the Loom since the TVA has this and it's the thing that keeps all of existence together. You'd think that would have come up in series 1! Especially since OB wrote the book they all read and it has a little picture of him in. And Moebius did meet him, so he existed before HWR was beaten. And he explicitly knows about HWR. I think what's made the show feel like Dr Who for me so far is that we've not been told enough about the Loom. They tell us "This will happen without it" but I feel like I want to know why. Especially since series 1 was focused very much on the WHY of the TVA. It bothers me a bit that Loki hasn't asked why it is that the universe requires the Loom either. I dunno maybe Loki read it in our predestination book. I feel like it's gonna take a lot to make the last episode click for me.
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Nov 5, 2023 13:25
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Sometimes if you've had a real lovely life, having one that might seem boring and tiny and mundane to other people ends up being your heart's desire. I don't find that unimaginable at all. Further, I think the fact that she has all the choice and freedom in the universe is part of what empowers her to live that small life that she wanted/wants right now. You are focused on the negative aspects of working a fast food existence because most people who do it in real life do feel trapped in it. Even if you choose not to accept that she was genuinely happy living the life she is shown living, she does have the ability to leave or change it at any time. That's huge. It makes what she is spending her time doing truly a choice, and not a sentence. Personally, my take is that this is the life Sylvie wants right now, for all these reasons. For now, at least, I can see that life being deeply therapeutic. I also think she'll eventually move on, once she works through what she's going through. For now, this life gives her mundanity and predictability and stability that she's never known. Maybe she'll eventually leave this life, and that will be her choice as well.
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Nov 5, 2023 13:29
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Taear posted:Whereas I feel like an immortal alien wouldn't. Especially an immortal alien Loki although it's clearly shown us how different to Loki she is. I want to point out first of all that I suspect you read my use of "person" as a synonym for "human," which it was not. Sylvie is a person. You are adamant that it does not make sense for a person like Sylvie to choose and be happy in the life she was living, while several people in the thread have tried to describe the ways that, from their perspectives, her choice does makes sense with the person we know and is believable. I only continue to engage you on this point because it really seemed to bother you / affect your enjoyment of the show and I would have liked to help you enjoy the narrative more! But I think you -- you, personally -- just totally, fundamentally disagree with the choice she made. That's fine, but you aren't demonstrating a willingness to allow personal or narrative concessions or perspective shifts that support Sylvie making this choice that you feel is a bad one. I hope that changes, or at least it begins to bother you less, because being willing to shift perspective to better understand a fictional person is a skill that can be brought to bear in better understanding and connecting with real people too. It's worth engaging in for that reason, imo. LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 14:26
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Cythereal posted:For now, this life gives her mundanity and predictability and stability that she's never known. it's this. I've met folks who have been through some real awful stuff. One in particular, potentially the most resilient person i've ever met, went through some stuff that would sound like hyperbole She could be literally anything she wants, and she absolutely sought out a mundane and predictable life for the stability. and shes so f'ing happy now, it makes me tear-up. You gotta have stability to rebuild.
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Nov 5, 2023 15:05
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:
I fundamentally disagree that the choice that she's made would be a life that gives her stability and mundanity. I do not believe that a person who has actually worked a job like that, lived a life like she's going to have to live (ultimate poverty, since she has no money or support network in this place when she starts and would have to struggle to even get employed since she's effectively an illegal immigrant) would believe that this is a choice that fits what you feel is what she's looking for. I absolutely understand the idea of "you need a solid place to rebuild from". What I don't understand is why anyone would think this is one. And that argument for me would totally vanish if she'd picked a life that is beyond our understanding. Because she's picked something REAL is why I have a problem with it, because I understand and know the struggle of what she's doing and it feels very "I just walked in and got a job and a life" which feels mega unreal. If you want to tell me a story about "here is a damaged person who wants stability in her life" picking rural 80s US Mcdonalds which is something that exists and is real and isn't nice isn't a good place to put it. Mundane and predictable is some office job where you do the same thing in and out every day, not a service job like this one. A middle class existence, not a working class one. I feel like the show is totally ignoring the class angle and saying "Working here is something nice and easy that you don't have to push yourself for". No. Absolutely not.
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Nov 5, 2023 15:17
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You also point out repeatedly though she is super fuckin magical. quote:ultimate poverty, since she has no money or support network in this place when she starts and would have to struggle to even get employed since she's effectively an illegal immigrant None of this would be a real problem for her. Anyway, your mind is pretty made up and I got no more arguments left to make. But I think your perspective is narrow, bordering on biased.
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Nov 5, 2023 15:22
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