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Nawid posted:It's pretty clear he doesn't a gently caress about the kingdom. I've speculated that Petyr secretly convinced Joffrey to off Ned, but I think Varys may have done so now. I thought Cersei's chapter made it pretty clear that Petyr talked Joffrey into beheading Ned in some sort of inane plan to make Catelyn come running to him.
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Aug 18, 2011 02:21
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Unoriginal Name posted:I've got a problem with Varys' plan to restore the kingdom. He kills a person who is bringing peace to the kingdom in order to give it to a teenage girl from a line riddled with madness. He is fighting against his own professed interest in the well-begin of the people by killing Kevan. He has never met Dany and any reports he is getting from spies in Essos would be of how lovely a ruler Dany is. He's not planning on giving the realm to Dany. He's giving it to Aegon who if he isn't the real Aegon shouldn't have that madness problem. And I don't think he is the real Aegon. GRMM made a big effort to explain in ADWD how there are many thousands of people across the sea descended from the blood of Valyria. It'll be interesting to see what happens if Dany comes back to Westeros on the side of the red religion as the Volantis chapter seemed to foreshadow. Since it seems that it was probably a red priest who cut off Vary's balls. Rosscifer fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Aug 18, 2011 |
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Aug 18, 2011 02:28
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JerkyBunion posted:Ser Pounce is the greatest knight in all the land. I am shocked that Tommen didn't name him to the Kingsguard. I would give up the final books in this series just to have a tiny kitten in white armor with a white cape. It would make everything worth it.
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Aug 18, 2011 02:36
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Pucklynn posted:I would give up the final books in this series just to have a tiny kitten in white armor with a white cape. It would make everything worth it. The armor should be commissioned from the smith who built the armor worn by Zombie Gregor, for extra hilarity. "You want me to what?"
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Aug 18, 2011 02:51
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3Romeo posted:I want to see Jaime found unceremoniously hanging from a tree. That'd be a great "Because gently caress you, that's why" moment, and free Brienne to go do something she promised three books ago: to kill Stannis. That would be pretty badass! SharpyShuffle posted:Reminder that within Jon's own lifetime the king of the entire realm was a lunatic whose bedroom antics made Ramsey look tame and who loved burning people alive. Jon is hardly the first Commander of the NW to find himself guarding a realm run by scum; in comparison to Aery's, a Lannister king (in effect the very capable Ser Kevan) is no big deal. King Aerys never denied the wall men. Not to mention that his nuncle was up there who should have been king. Until Rhaegar rode off with Lyanna, the kingdom was fairley stable and people were commited to keeping up the deal to give criminals the choice to take the black. Right now, the whole continent is completely hosed. Everyone's too busy screwing each other over and arguing to give any attention to the real threat. It was easy to ignore Roberts Rebellion for most of the watch because when he took the throne he still allowed Yoren to routinley gather men from his cells. The Lannisters had Yoren killed and prevented the last load from ever making it. It paints a pretty grim picture for anyone tasked with commanding such a scenario. SharpyShuffle posted:Sure Jon may feel he's in a desperate situation thanks to The Others, but the smart thing for tne NW to do would be to secure evidence of The Others existence and send it to KL (without it rotting this time). If anything he should want to realm to be united asap (ie. under Tommen, since any Stannis victory would take years and years), rather than prolonging a divisive war that distracts from the 'real threat' of the Others. Tywin didn't want to help the NW because he saw it as a good thing to have the traitorous north put under threat from the wildlings; the sooner the north is brought back into the king's peace, the sooner Jon gets the help he needs. Personally I think the thing to do here is march south with the wildlings and go from keep to keep demanding men for the watch in exchange for not opening the wall to any horror that comes south. Winterfell is a pretty good start at this point. Jon knows winterfell well and would be the best person to launch an attack on it. Kill Ramsay, flay Roose, and offer the rest a job on the wall or being buggered to death by wildlings.
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Aug 18, 2011 03:20
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Nawid posted:It's pretty clear he doesn't a gently caress about the kingdom. I've speculated that Petyr secretly convinced Joffrey to off Ned, but I think Varys may have done so now. So continuing to support my "Varys is a good guy" theory, if he doesn't give a gently caress about the kingdom, what does he give a gently caress about? He's never seemed to give much of a poo poo about his own personal power, so what other possible motive does he have that makes sense for his actions?
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Aug 18, 2011 03:37
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:So continuing to support my "Varys is a good guy" theory, if he doesn't give a gently caress about the kingdom, what does he give a gently caress about? He's never seemed to give much of a poo poo about his own personal power, so what other possible motive does he have that makes sense for his actions? I don't understand his motivations either. He always says its for the kingdom and now, the children. He obviously wants a Targ on the throne but why? The last one was crazy. Dany has dragons but is otherwise completely ill equipped to handle ruling. Young Aerys seems ok but why him? Is there any theory out there that Varys is a Targ? He definitely has a Targ name. Also, I am ready for one of the main characters to die. I don't care which one at this point except maybe Tyrion. I wish Jon would be dead so it completely fucks up his entire perceived destiny.
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Aug 18, 2011 06:27
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Kung Fu Jesus posted:Also, I am ready for one of the main characters to die. I don't care which one at this point except maybe Tyrion. I wish Jon would be dead so it completely fucks up his entire perceived destiny. Jon will only be dead for Winds. They'll give him a funeral and we will switch to a Melisandre Pov until the end when he rises as a semi-wight ala Coldhands or the last chapter will have Ghost, wandering beyond the wall with what is left of his mind being called to Bran or something equally stupid. OMG he's alive!! Something with a cliffhanger, anyway.
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Aug 18, 2011 07:10
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Unoriginal Name posted:Jon will only be dead for Winds. They'll give him a funeral and we will switch to a Melisandre Pov until the end when he rises as a semi-wight ala Coldhands or the last chapter will have Ghost, wandering beyond the wall with what is left of his mind being called to Bran or something equally stupid. OMG he's alive!! Something with a cliffhanger, anyway. Yeah, I was not impressed with the way Jon died, with the way it was written, I'm all but sure that he's coming back. Or maybe George is loving with us some more by making resurrections "common" then letting Jon just die like he did and leaving it at that. I was also a bit sad at the lack of Sam chapters in Oldtown. I'm not sure why, but I've been looking forward to Sam learning stuff as a maester.
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Aug 18, 2011 08:24
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Varys seems like the kind of guy who would do the right thing if he can get away with it. He spoke honestly to Ned in the black cells. He also got Gendry out of King's Landing before the gold cloaks could find him.
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Aug 18, 2011 08:46
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colonel_korn posted:Unfortunately things kind of go downhill for Tyrion after that point what with the whole getting his nose cut off, being sentenced to death and then spending a whole book wondering where whores go and hanging out with a girl dwarf and her pet pig. I'm mostly insenstive to all the rampant deaths, murders, rapes and war in the books so far and have actively hoped for major characters to die horribly... but drat that dwarf girl really gets me. All she ever wanted was to make the big people happy with her brother. "You like my nose?" 
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Aug 18, 2011 08:52
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Saul Goode posted:I'm mostly insenstive to all the rampant deaths, murders, rapes and war in the books so far and have actively hoped for major characters to die horribly... but drat that dwarf girl really gets me. All she ever wanted was to make the big people happy with her brother. The dwarf girl is actually Varys.
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Aug 18, 2011 12:33
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Argali posted:The dwarf girl is actually Varys. I liked Penny. In fact, I liked all of the commoner viewpoints GRRM added in the last two books. The characters make such a big deal about the "game of thrones" they're playing, but either way all the little folk are paying for it. Which is why I think Varys is putting Aegon on the throne.
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Aug 18, 2011 13:11
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Kung Fu Jesus posted:I don't understand his motivations either. He always says its for the kingdom and now, the children. He obviously wants a Targ on the throne but why? The last one was crazy. I know this is a longshot - but I wouldn't be surprised if Varys and Rhaegar were conspiring to depose Aerys in some way. Maybe not straight-up patricide. Where it always breaks down is: why did Rhaegar run off with Lyanna unless they didn't think it would cause a war?
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Aug 18, 2011 13:29
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Kung Fu Jesus posted:I don't understand his motivations either. He always says its for the kingdom and now, the children. He obviously wants a Targ on the throne but why? The last one was crazy. Dany has dragons but is otherwise completely ill equipped to handle ruling. Young Aerys seems ok but why him? Is there any theory out there that Varys is a Targ? He definitely has a Targ name. I think it's pretty clear when he's talking to Kevan. Every ruler as of late has been completely unsuited to the role. Even if Kevan were to stabilize the Kingdom it would be in the hands of treacherous backstabbing fucks who've never had to experience or care about the common folk. Whether or it's the real Aegon doesn't matter. What's important to Varys is that Aegon has been trained and taught to be a "good" king - somebody who won't continue the decades of bullshit that's been going on. Of course, that begs the question as to if he's just naive enough to believe that his plan will work for more than Aegon's lifespan - but it seems awfully stupid to lie about your intentions to a dying man.
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Aug 18, 2011 13:32
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geeves posted:I know this is a longshot - but I wouldn't be surprised if Varys and Rhaegar were conspiring to depose Aerys in some way. Maybe not straight-up patricide. I like to think he just found out she was the masked knight and fell in love with her. It adds a certain fable to the story rather than it being an endless chain of backstabbing.
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Aug 18, 2011 13:43
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Neurosis posted:I like to think he just found out she was the masked knight and fell in love with her. It adds a certain fable to the story rather than it being an endless chain of backstabbing. I'm definitely on board with that idea. But it was Rhaegar's comments to Jaime about how there would be changes when he returned on which I'm loosely basing Rhaegar working with Varys (and Varys Wyrmtounging Aerys at the same time).
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Aug 18, 2011 14:01
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Kung Fu Jesus posted:Is there any theory out there that Varys is a Targ? He definitely has a Targ name. Impossible. You cannot burn the dragon's genitals. E: Although, perhaps it was for the magic of king's blood!
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Aug 18, 2011 16:47
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geeves posted:I'm definitely on board with that idea. But it was Rhaegar's comments to Jaime about how there would be changes when he returned on which I'm loosely basing Rhaegar working with Varys (and Varys Wyrmtounging Aerys at the same time). This. GRRM is the master of finding a pleasing narrative then shredding it to pieces. Had Rhaegar won at the Trident, he could have come home in glory, and the commoners would have loved him so much that little would have been said if the Mad King had died suddenly in his sleep. But, Rhaegar tripped on a rock or just plain got handled in a duel, either way, the realm paid for it for decades. As for Varys, based on what he says about Aegon (how he's been raised to view Kingship as a duty not an inheritance), I think Varys knows about what's going on at the Wall and wants the right King on the throne when it all goes down. If that King can have dragons then all the better.
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Aug 18, 2011 20:48
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Unzip and Attack posted:This. GRRM is the master of finding a pleasing narrative then shredding it to pieces. Had Rhaegar won at the Trident, he could have come home in glory, and the commoners would have loved him so much that little would have been said if the Mad King had died suddenly in his sleep. But, Rhaegar tripped on a rock or just plain got handled in a duel, either way, the realm paid for it for decades. Assuming Varys wants a Targ on the throne (something I disagree with), what if part of that plan is to hobble all the other groups that are currently vying for power? The noble houses are doing a fine job of that themselves, the church is making a grab for power that will likely end in bloodshed, the meisters themselves are trying to stabilize the realm, and the lord commander of the wall is going much further to empower the Wall than anyone in recent memory. If all of them fail during the rise of a dragon king, it'll make them much less popular with anyone who wants power, thus making Aegon's reign that much more stable. He's pushing the continent to the brink in order to make his boy king look better by comparison.
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Aug 18, 2011 21:11
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And if Dany's prophecy in the Wizard House was any clue, the people will love and adore him.
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Aug 19, 2011 00:45
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Maarak posted:the meisters Wanna start using this. G Meister Pycelle.
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Aug 19, 2011 02:10
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Saul Goode posted:I'm mostly insenstive to all the rampant deaths, murders, rapes and war in the books so far and have actively hoped for major characters to die horribly... but drat that dwarf girl really gets me. All she ever wanted was to make the big people happy with her brother. I feel exactly the same. She's ignorant of all the poo poo going on but she seems so innocent. The fact that she's a dwarf in this world also gets sympathy points. I mean, you know her life was one of degradation her whole existence but without Tyrion's money or heritage. I hope she lives.
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Aug 19, 2011 03:05
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I am really curious about what's happening with Loras Tyrell over at Dragonstone or Storm's End, whichever it is. There hasn't been any confirmation of whether he's alive or dead or getting it on with Renly Bartheon's shade or gods only know what else. Considering the hints that were so unsubtly dropped, it's probably getting a good pounding from Renley's ghost. In his butt. They're having gay butt-sex. This is my theory.
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Aug 19, 2011 05:06
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From what I remember, the report was, we has injured and also got burned. He could potentially recover from that, but he would have to re create his identity, cause he would not be a pretty boy anymore.
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Aug 19, 2011 06:28
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Lester B. Pearson posted:From what I remember, the report was, we has injured and also got burned. He could potentially recover from that, but he would have to re create his identity, cause he would not be a pretty boy anymore. The Hound 2.0. Just kidding. But I feel like he will be an entirely different (read: angrier) person, after. So it's not a far stretch.
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Aug 19, 2011 06:41
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Kung Fu Jesus posted:The Arya and Theon chapters were really good, although I wish there were more Arya chapters. Bran's were good as well but still not learning more about Coldhands was a bummer. Is there any doubt whatsoever that Coldhands is Benjen Stark? - Benjen was unceremoniously removed from the story in GoT, but has been brought up multiple times in every book since - He wasn't really a main character to begin with, but his disappearance has remained an ongoing mystery - His face is constantly masked, and there's not really a good reason why (leading me to believe that it is only because the story requires Bran to not recognize him) Either that or GRRM is trolling us all by making us think he's Benjen Stark. And also, where the hell was Zombie Catelyn for the entire book?
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Aug 19, 2011 07:01
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There's no reason to believe Coldhands is Benjen. Even all those things you listed aren't reasons.
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Aug 19, 2011 07:10
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I don't think it's Benjen because it's too obvious and if it was Benjen, why didn't he reveal himself to Bran? As for Catelyn, she's causing mayhem in the Riverlands, which we don't see at all in this book except for Jaime's POV.
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Aug 19, 2011 07:16
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Coldhands is Ned. He didn't reveal his face because he doesn't have one.
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Aug 19, 2011 07:38
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soru posted:There's no reason to believe Coldhands is Benjen. VaultAggie posted:I don't think it's Benjen because it's too obvious This clears things up completely!
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Aug 19, 2011 08:10
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If Benjen is coldhands... zombie Catlin can hook up with him and lay claim to all three Stark brothers.
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Aug 19, 2011 09:14
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Mad Hamish posted:I am really curious about what's happening with Loras Tyrell over at Dragonstone or Storm's End, whichever it is. There hasn't been any confirmation of whether he's alive or dead or getting it on with Renly Bartheon's shade or gods only know what else. Incredibly vain & arrogant pretty boy gets horribly scarred - every law of storytelling says he's not going to die before we get a chance to see him struggling with the ruin he's become.
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Aug 19, 2011 09:17
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SharpyShuffle posted:Incredibly vain & arrogant pretty boy gets horribly scarred - every law of storytelling says he's not going to die before we get a chance to see him struggling with the ruin he's become. You know how Victarion's got that smoking arm? Maybe Loras can be super fire zombie.
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Aug 19, 2011 09:34
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Remember that Gurm would be doing a TWoW reading at some con? Summary have been posted at Westeros.org. Spoilers, of course: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/56545-twow-spoilers-arianne-i/ Also an interesting tidbit: according to the thread, the chapters that got moved from ADwD to TWoW were "1 Sansa, 1 Arya, 2 Arianne (plus a third chapter yet to be written) and 1 Aeron". Meaning no, we weren't going to see the battles at either Meereen or Winterfell either way 
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Aug 19, 2011 10:20
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SharpyShuffle posted:Incredibly vain & arrogant pretty boy gets horribly scarred - every law of storytelling says he's not going to die before we get a chance to see him struggling with the ruin he's become. Until he ends up killing himself. After all, Renly wouldn't want to see him like this. "You found me beautiful once!" Its also occurred to me: I wonder how ruined a corpse has to be before an Other can turn it into a wight? We know fire 'kills' them permanently, but would an Other be able to re-animate, say, a skeleton? Because if so, I feel that the people inhabiting Winterfell when the Wall gets breached for reals will be in for an incredibly nasty surprise.
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Aug 19, 2011 13:19
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Hahaha, as amazing as reanimating the entire line of Starks back forever would be, I think that image is just too ridiculous even for gurm.
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Aug 19, 2011 14:27
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Ned's coming back, baby!
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Aug 19, 2011 15:41
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Has anyone ever discussed Martin's amputation fetish? -Tyrion has his nose cut in half -Jaime loses a hand -Brienne loses a cheek -Myrcella loses an ear -GreatJon has two fingers bit off by Grey Wind. -Bran loses his legs. I suppose we could make it count. -Donal Noye has lost an arm -Theon Greyjoy loses most of his teeth, three fingers, a number of toes. Wow. -Ilyn Payne doesn't have a tongue anymore -Davos lost his fingers to Stannis -Arys Oakheart loses an arm just before dying. Does that count? -Varys has no balls and dick, as Martin tells us in one of his most morbid descriptions. It seems to me that in Westeros, even when you don't die, someone will take the liberty of cutting you the gently caress up.
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Aug 19, 2011 19:06
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quote:Martin's ... fetish? I wouldn't say amputation is the only one. Don't forget that we get a bunch of stuff about transgender fantasies through Cersei. Dance with Dragons brought us a whole slew of awesome stuff through the one guy's harem, notably the hermaphrodite. (Hermaphroditism was also mentioned by, uh...Oberyn, I think, when talking about baby Tyrion.) There are lots of small examples all over the place that I've forgotten, but basically GRRM loves putting in weird sexual poo poo. Not that I'm opposed to any of those fetishes or anything. 
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Aug 19, 2011 19:10
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