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Improbable Lobster posted:One man indie games, infamous for their huge focus testing teams influencing their development. It does actually, only their focus group is convention crowds. Plus the alpha/beta testing with select test groups (often streamers later in development). The "one man - one vision" type of game isn't really that common anymore. Toadys are rare (and I wouldn't be surprised if even he's got a group of people he asks while developing a new version of DF). Also Skoll, you need to seriously let someone elses opinions influence your enjoyment of game that's not even out yet less, especially someone who can't ruin the game you're pre-determined to love because he's clearly not in the dev loop. I think the Rainbow Six mission planing and/or stealth gameplay was far more interesting and bold than Tie Fighter skirmish, because it hasn't been done before in a space sim - shocking opinion apparently. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 18:32 on May 27, 2016 |
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May 27, 2016 18:26
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DatonKallandor posted:It does actually, only their focus group is convention crowds. Plus the alpha/beta testing with select test groups (often streamers later in development). The "one man - one vision" type of game isn't really that common anymore. Toadys are rare (and I wouldn't be surprised if even he's got a group of people he asks while developing a new version of DF). My only opinion is that you're an autistic dummy.
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May 27, 2016 18:43
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DatonKallandor posted:It does actually, only their focus group is convention crowds. Plus the alpha/beta testing with select test groups (often streamers later in development). The "one man - one vision" type of game isn't really that common anymore. Toadys are rare (and I wouldn't be surprised if even he's got a group of people he asks while developing a new version of DF). Testing is good because sometimes it turns out the game you thought you wanted to make isn't fun. Rainbow Six mission planning was pointless in a tactical space without walls or terrain, without alarms or hostages, where ships can rapidly move in and out of the action. Spend a minute setting up a rigid plan of attack, and in ten seconds it's obsolete. It evolved into a pausable RTS command mode where you can command your fighters and warships, then leap back into the cockpit of any fighter you want. (You can also just give commands from your cockpit in real time.) Stealth gameplay has been done in a space sim before: it was just EVE Online, with bots instead of human players. I played this version a lot. The system stealth elements are still there in the tactical space: the longer you hang around, the more poo poo the enemy drops on you. Complete your objectives and get out. On a per-battle level it's exactly like back in the overworld version, except now you don't have to spend ten minutes flying over to a distant interdictor before you can leave, or spend half your play session cleaning out 4000 gate blockades on your way to do anything fun. I was really alarmed by the loss of the overworld but it turns out it was the right decision. You picked 'can't make the friendlies red' as your example of focus testing ruining games, and the friendly IFF color in this game is red.
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May 27, 2016 19:00
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Kairo, which goon tears are the sweetest, the ones crying about the name change or the ones crying about there being no more random encounter generator
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May 27, 2016 19:04
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Depending on the severity of your autism, you may realize one day that not every human being shares your internal state. If you ever make a thing you might find that, for many reasons, you want as many people as possible to enjoy it. This might conflict with your perfect artistic vision, so if you are good, you'll adjust your work to find a happy balance! In games especially, the mark of a great developer is to ruthlessly amputate parts that aren't fun, which I think Kairo has shown time and again he's willing to do. Tons of otherwise good games have been ruined because they're bogged down with boring bullshit that sounds so cool on paper. Speaking from personal experience, I worked for years on a team working on a procedural generation toolkit for a major game engine and while it was pretty easy to get going, actually generating good and cool output was a pain in the dick and took loving forever. I don't think a single developer could produce a game like this that generated encounters at anywhere near the quality of handmade ones. This isn't focus tested to death, this is not having the narcissistic tunnel vision that dooms so many game devs.
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May 27, 2016 19:10
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Onion Knight posted:Speaking from personal experience, I worked for years on a team working on a procedural generation toolkit for a major game engine and while it was pretty easy to get going, actually generating good and cool output was a pain in the dick and took loving forever. I don't think a single developer could produce a game like this that generated encounters at anywhere near the quality of handmade ones. So what you are saying is that we are missing out on having 18 gajillion repetitive mediocre random encounters generated from the devs phone number in favour of 14 good scenarios? WOW Doomy fucked around with this message at 19:20 on May 27, 2016 |
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May 27, 2016 19:15
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Well, this is turning into a ridiculous argument. For the record, I'm really happy the game has a scripted campaign now, I'm just a little wary because it doesn't sound like a huge number of missions (even with multiple difficulties), and there's no mission editor so that others might make more interesting scenarios. Completely removing the random stuff when it could be largely shuffled off to an optional (perhaps unlockable after campaign completion?) mode seems a little wasteful too.
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May 27, 2016 19:19
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Dominic White posted:Well, this is turning into a ridiculous argument. Goons gotta get mad about something. I'm just excited to shoot people in a spaceship with my spaceshotgun as I spacedrift past their spacefaces.
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May 27, 2016 19:24
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Kairo posted:It's now a more flexible equipment system. Pick weapons for a class of ship and also pick upgrades for them, provided you've purchased or unlocked them. Since there's no multiplayer and you don't have to be overly concerned about balance, are there any VR-only features of the game such as eve valkyrie's look-to-lock? Also if you need testers with a rift cv1, PM me
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May 27, 2016 19:27
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Sell it as a 'Dynamic Campaign' DLC in a couple months time for  (please).
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May 27, 2016 19:28
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I hope level scores are rated in warcrimes.
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May 27, 2016 19:31
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Mordja posted:I hope level scores are rated in warcrimes. The first good post in awhile. I'm kiddin, sheesh.
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May 27, 2016 19:59
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"Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine game design, obey it—whole-heartedly—and delete it before sending your game to early access. Murder your darlings." -- Mark Twain
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May 27, 2016 20:00
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I was looking forward to a number of things that have been cut, but the fact that Kairo was willing to kill so many of his darlings speaks very highly to me. These aren't features that had to be cut because some suit at a publisher insisted on a deadline; they're ideas that were tried and didn't work out.
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May 27, 2016 20:04
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General Battuta posted:Testing is good because sometimes it turns out the game you thought you wanted to make isn't fun. I only paid attention to development every now and then but excising that stealth stuff and streamlining it into missions sounds a lot more fun and like something I'd be more interested in. I think the name's pretty cool, too. 
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May 27, 2016 20:08
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I find it funny that goons (or really just one) are upset about a game that they never even touched or paid a cent for yet. clearly we know what we missed out on.
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May 27, 2016 20:23
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But now this game won't be identical to the one I made up in my head based on a few bits of information from years ago! That's practically fraud!
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May 27, 2016 20:34
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Eyud posted:But now this game won't be identical to the one I made up in my head based on a few bits of information from years ago! That's practically fraud! To be fair to DatonKallandor, I did eventually back off on the red/blue thing after tweaking it to be more orange/blue and making absolutely sure I was consistent with it. It's completely understandable that he would be disappointed in some of the changes too. I mean, I totally failed to make that stuff work in a good way. Also, I am sure some people will go, "That's it?" when they play it, but I'm OK with that because at least the game is shipping. The missions have about as much lead-up exposition and narrative as a Hotline Miami level (they actually do more), and are really short when you actually win. But I'm pretty sure you haven't played anything like this either, so hopefully it evens out. Ok, back ta werk.
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May 27, 2016 21:11
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Kairo posted:To be fair to DatonKallandor, I did eventually back off on the red/blue thing after tweaking it to be more orange/blue and making absolutely sure I was consistent with it. It's completely understandable that he would be disappointed in some of the changes too. I mean, I totally failed to make that stuff work in a good way. Considering this started out as a single man project that you actually built a whole new studio around, you got the right to feel a bit more than "OK". Good luck!
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May 27, 2016 21:18
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I'm still skeptical of the longevity but really just want to fly what looks like the most fun spaceship ever devised in videogame form. Its a very, very good space ship.
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May 27, 2016 21:24
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Kairo posted:To be fair to DatonKallandor, I did eventually back off on the red/blue thing after tweaking it to be more orange/blue and making absolutely sure I was consistent with it. It's completely understandable that he would be disappointed in some of the changes too. I mean, I totally failed to make that stuff work in a good way. I doubt you'll answer this, but is the game going to be 20$ or 40$? Either price point is fine for me because I just want to fly.
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May 27, 2016 22:34
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Skoll posted:Holy poo poo you're loving bad and dumb. Don't say everybody doesn't A Thing just because YOU don't like it you loving jackass. Stop being an angry manchild in every thread you touch, please.
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May 27, 2016 23:09
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Kairo posted:To be fair to DatonKallandor, I did eventually back off on the red/blue thing after tweaking it to be more orange/blue and making absolutely sure I was consistent with it. It's completely understandable that he would be disappointed in some of the changes too. I mean, I totally failed to make that stuff work in a good way. Oh yeah, I get that people will be disappointed when the core game changes significantly, I just get tired of people acting like a change they don't personally care for means the game is dead/ruined. Clearly lots of people are still excited for this game, so saying it was focus tested to death is pretty silly. I don't think you failed at anything though, you just accepted the reality that making the random system work would take more time and/or resources than you have. That's just good software development.
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May 27, 2016 23:31
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I'm disappointed the original concept didn't work out, with the benefit of hindsight I'm not surprised at all it didn't. Across all the space games I've played there's been maybe 4-5 different levels. There's the one where you have to shoot waves of fighters. There's the one where you have to shoot waves of bombers. There's the one where you have to attack a big ship. There's the one where two big ships fight each other and you have to shoot waves of fighters and bombers. 15-ish missions that are crafted and replayable seems perfectly reasonable.
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May 27, 2016 23:52
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Shine posted:Stop being an angry manchild in every thread you touch, please. That's sort of his thing though. That, and being a former nazi.
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May 27, 2016 23:57
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it's pretty much his gimmick Would it be possible to add in a mission creator at some point? "Kaizo Dying Sun" steam workshop poo poo would easily make the game last for a while.
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May 28, 2016 00:07
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Alchenar posted:I'm disappointed the original concept didn't work out, with the benefit of hindsight I'm not surprised at all it didn't. Don't forget scanning containers and shooting rocks. Shooting rocks is a classic.
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May 28, 2016 00:18
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Escort missions, everybody's favorite!
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May 28, 2016 00:24
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Avulsion posted:Don't forget scanning containers and shooting rocks. You need to escort the GTD Bastion through this asteroid field, PILOT *spends ten minutes shooting rocks doing gently caress all* There's like 2 of these goddamn missions in Freespace 1
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May 28, 2016 00:40
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Doomy posted:Kairo, which goon tears are the sweetest, the ones crying about the name change or the ones crying about there being no more random encounter generator My tears are reserved for that sweet poster. Please make a HotDS version, Kairo, tia. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 01:20 on May 28, 2016 |
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May 28, 2016 01:10
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Quote not edit!
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May 28, 2016 01:10
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Hasn't actually been posted in a while so: RIP. I bet that new font would look pretty sweet in there, though...
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May 28, 2016 01:15
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Not buying the poster is the one thing I regret!
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May 28, 2016 01:20
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Supraluminal posted:Escort missions, everybody's favorite! Some escort missions are great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfAHtdMWcMA
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May 28, 2016 01:22
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Shine posted:Some escort missions are great. What a great game that was.
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May 28, 2016 01:44
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Eyud posted:Hasn't actually been posted in a while so:  
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May 28, 2016 01:51
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Shine posted:Some escort missions are great. I still have nightmares about this game.
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May 28, 2016 02:08
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Doomy posted:So what you are saying is that we are missing out on having 18 gajillion repetitive mediocre random encounters generated from the devs phone number in favour of 14 good scenarios? WOW I caught that reference.  It's actually a good point: We have two promising-looking space games with unique retro visuals and a focus on the single-player experience developed by small indie studios coming out this summer. One, No Man's Sky, is procedurally generated. Vast, yes, but impossible to fully playtest and many are worried it will be repetitive. The other, House of the Dying Sun, has a selection of lovingly crafted scenarios that have been thoroughly playtested. If one of those sounds fun to you, buy it. If both sound fun, buy them both. Telling the developer of one it should have been like the other seems really dumb to me. And yet that's exactly what is happening in the two games' threads, because goons.
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May 28, 2016 02:18
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Bolow posted:You need to escort the GTD Bastion through this asteroid field, PILOT My personal favorite is when you're undercover with the racist Neo-Terran Front in FS2. "Alpha 1, we're undercover here - so, under no circumstances can we let these asteroids hit the NTF Iceni and kill everyone onboard including the leader of the rebellion. We must defend that ship!"
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May 28, 2016 06:16
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Milky Moor posted:My personal favorite is when you're undercover with the racist Neo-Terran Front in FS2. In FS2's defense, there ends up being a pretty drat compelling reason for that course of action. Also echoing that handcrafted encounters are better, name change is fine, so on and so forth. This game will be gud.
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May 28, 2016 06:44
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